@Jimmer-jammer that is a really really good juxtaposition. Can’t believe it never occurred to me but yeah… one of many beautiful threads weaved together for the overall tapestry. And no, your posts have not come across as lazy at all… as ever, your words have been thoughtful and precise. As has @Voltan’s for that matter.
I’ve been looking forward to this chat since before I even played 2… from back when I was playing the original early last month… and it’s been as insightful, thought-provoking and enjoyable as I thought it would be.
PS I love that bit on the first game being about Love and the second about Hate… and then obviously the irony that for both emotions, divided by only the narrowest of margins, ultimately the objective of both games were not carried out. Namely, ensuring the production of a cure and achieving revenge.
@colonelkilgore thanks for posting your thoughts, only just had chance to read them. Glad you loved it so much. You're right, the narrative is amazing and it's a phenomenal experience. They managed to build on the first in every way.
Don't be ashamed about the crying. Whilst I didn't cry, I certainly felt some deep emotions playing. That just shows how good the writing is.
I think killing Abby would have been the “obvious” thing to have done. But I think not doing it works better as it gives that moment of insight for Ellie where she realises that she’s ruined her own existence in the name of revenge and is just continuing the cycle of killing and revenge. Killing her or not, she is still going to end up alone again but maybe she can finally make one “good” decision and move on with her life.
Maybe an obvious and boring take but that’s why it worked for me and why her return to the farm was made more powerful.
@Keith_Zissou no problem at all buddy, I’m having a bit of a busy spell myself tbh.
Yeah I’m with you on pretty much all of that to be fair. The Seraphites are a fascinating new wrinkle in The Last of Us world. I would definitely like to learn more about them (maybe Factions 2 could even go some way towards doing that) but as you also allude to, I do feel the game itself was long enough. So, it would be difficult to have done so in TLoU2. What I would add though is I feel that the Seraphites and the Wolves (hell even the Fireflies themselves) were given more context, personality and… well, just plain old ‘air-time’ than the Fireflies got in the original, so there is that I guess.
And I do feel a bit bad for low-balling the gameplay a little… as you mentioned it really does play well, a helluva lot better than the original. It’s just so in-line with most other third person games these days, while pretty much everything else is so far beyond the pack it sticks out. I also definitely found myself ‘enjoying’ the gameplay, the further I got into the game. That might be down to some of the later chapters being more to my taste maybe… or maybe it was just rocking a full arsenal? Either way, it really does play well, and that only bodes well for Factions 2 also. I normally don’t play online multiplayer unless it’s an adhoc towards a Platinum… but I might well end up putting in some time on that when it eventually releases.
@Keith_Zissou I know exactly what you mean about enjoying a game more once 'locking' into the mechanics. We all have our own terms for it... I tend to refer to it by saying 'once I've sync'd with the game'. My mate says 'once the game has embedded'. Either way though you're right, and it's why I'll give a game a lot of leeway in the initial period, as I know it can take a while.
Loving MGS2, think its going to overtake 3 as my second favourite at this rate. I think I'm probably gonna end up sick of it by the time I've either Plat'd it or given up though... man is there a lot to do for that shiney!
@Keith_Zissou yeah the dog tags, the playthroughs and the VR's etc. I'm gonna give it the obligatory 'college-try' but it does seem a lot. Still, if I manage it, it'll be up there with the most satisfying plats I guess.
Something moved me to finally boot up TLoU2 today. I’ve been try to think of a good companion game with Mass Effect and nothing seemed to gel in my mind so I just went to the top of my list of PS essentials that I own but haven’t played yet.
I’m only in the introductory areas, but am very impressed so far. I knew the game was well crafted from what I’d read as well as from what I know of Naughty Dog and their attention to detail. But I am so blown away by the accessibility and customization options. Wow, it’s on another level.
And already the voice acting and storytelling is in full shine, even though I’ve barely started to meet the new characters. I’m keeping an open mind, as I know there has been a strong camp of naysayers as well as fans, so I’m looking forward to forming my own opinion. So far so good though!
“We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.”
@Th3solution hope you enjoy buddy. I approached it in a similar mindset last year (weary of both the extreme positive and negative reactions to the game). I ended up being blown away... so much so that its probably up there in my favourite 10 games of all time (I definitely wasn't expecting to be thinking that prior to starting it).
@LN78 I believe I have avoided most spoilers, but I think I might have still been exposed to one. If my suspicions are correct, the event probably happens early so I’m hoping it hasn’t spoiled too much for me. And even if my hunch is right, I am not sure of the causes leading up to the event, nor the consequences afterward.
And I also felt the first game finished perfectly and would have been fine left alone. It was one of my favorite video game endings ever. To carry on the story does somewhat cheapen the emotional impact of those final scenes. Nevertheless, I saw Naughty Dog pull off a similar feat with Uncharted, as I thought 4 ended really well. It was all tied up nicely, and yet I thoroughly enjoyed Lost Legacy. Maybe even more than UC4. So we’ll see.
@colonelkilgore Cheers, and I anticipate I might end up feeling similarly. Just the opening segments is a stark reminder of how excellently Naughty Dog can make a game look and feel.
It probably doesn’t help that I’m concurrently playing ME1 and although I’m only about a third of the way through the game, I’m seeing the same bland assets and set pieces over and over (and over and over…. 😅). In the far future it sure looks like all planets are fabricating their buildings and vehicles from the same large scale manufacturer. There is like basically 2 or 3 floor plans for all the buildings! 😂 So when I see crazy detail while walking though the base in TLoU2 like little notes posted on the wall, NPCs carrying on their lives (like looking through the window into a building and seeing a class of kids sitting with a teacher reading to them), and I got a little giddy to see the PS3 and the two DS3 controllers in Ellie’s room. The world is just so densely created and detailed by comparison. And I know the two games were made nearly 15 years apart so you can’t compare them, but it’s a striking contrast. I am still loving Mass Effect though. Nothing against it.
“We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.”
@Th3solution Yeah will be interesting to see your thoughts on this. I thought it was a phenomenal game. My only gripes that I remember is that I thought it went on for a wee bit too long.
Life is more fun when you help people succeed, instead of wishing them to fail.
Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt.
I'm still convinced a lot of the "negative" crowd base their opinions on the leaks and other 2nd hand information and have either not played the game or went in already feeling they're somehow supposed to hate it, based on 1 or 2 things they knew happen in it.
Of course, I know people who played the game and didn't like it but it seems rare and often for the wrong reasons that don't have much to do with the game itself.
This game is tough to discuss without spoilers, but I feel like I have to release a little tension. I’ll just have to use spoiler tags when necessary.
First off, I think I can see why many players were put off by the game right away. What Naughty Dog has done here is buck all convention, as far as narrative goes. For me though, I applaud that. And although I’m only 6 hours into it, the game has the potential to be one of the most influential and forward pushing games of the last generation. It’s too early to pass full judgment, but already I am left speechless with some of the moments I’ve had so far.
I don’t even know where to begin. But I can’t really leave my fractured thoughts and feelings without referencing some of the specifics, so I’ll tag them.
I had pieced together from internet backlash that Joel was going to die. I also knew that one of the main themes of the game was the poisonous effects of revenge, so I figured he was going to be killed. But even having a small premonition of that, I was in no way prepared for actually seeing and playing out the event. The fact that you, the player, are playing as Abby and controlling her right up to the moment she snaps into this brutal murderer is so effective and making the whole thing so incredibly uncomfortable and sickening. I simultaneously feel sick and awful, and also floored and impressed by the emotional impact that the game is able to impose. For a video game to make me feel these emotions is rare indeed. They are not pleasant emotions, but so strong that I want to see and feel more. I want to see this thing play out. I’m so sad and angry, but also curious and in awe. I’m basically an emotional wreck, and I’m loving it. I guess that’s why people like horror and drama — the surge in endorphins related to fear and anger make us feel alive and they must tap into those carnal areas of our ape brain. I don’t know.
Speaking of horror, the game isn’t that scary actually. I’ve had one or two jump scare moments, but I don’t feel the sense of fear and dread that I even felt playing Demon’s Souls. I think the jovial interactions between characters diffuses a lot of the horror elements.
The gameplay is good. I like it so far. Nothing earth-shattering, but it’s fun enough to tie the moments between story beats together just fine. Its funny that the game upends the traditional narrative conventions so fiercely, but has a pretty basic and iterative gameplay loop. And I’m fine with that. There’s a certain ‘comfort food’ aspect to Naughty Dog games whereby the familiarity gives you respite to just enjoy the story.
I had to take a little break to let my psyche recuperate and my console cool off. But I’m itching to get back to it.
“We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.”
@Th3solution Glad you are enjoying it so far! I was in a similar position to you in regards to spoilers, and probably knew a bit less about the game.
In regards to horror elements, there are a couple later. Both similar to what you have experienced already, and one showpiece which is definitely not.
But yes that section in your spoiler tags hit home hard and I thought it was brave and risky to go down that route, as Naughty Dog knew it would upset and put some people off the game.
Life is more fun when you help people succeed, instead of wishing them to fail.
Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt.
@JohnnyShoulder Yeah, the game almost is the definition of brave and gutsy.
It feels somewhat ‘George RR Martin-like’ in that regard, which I’ve always felt is impressive that he crafts such a well thought out character and molds them expertly into the story only to kill them off suddenly and then start over with new characters. Writing a solid and believable character who is also beloved by the fans is not easy. In fact many good writers still can’t do it well. When a writer spends the time to do it and then just destroys that, it shows confidence in their abilities to replace them with something equally as compelling.
The social aspects with heavy inclusion of non-traditional romantic relationships and sexual orientation only further underlines the daring aspects of what ND has ventured to do with the game. Add to that the extensive accessibility options, and it’s almost like the developer was just doubling down and throwing everything they could into the stew to shake up the industry. And so far it’s been really savory.
I know I’m still early hours so I’m not conclusive in my opinion but it’s got its hooks in me for sure.
@Th3solution I hope you do enjoy the game! It’s an odd one as lots of it does go with what you’ve already mentioned and the “uncomfortable feeling”.
As such, I think it’s great in subverting some gaming norms and it certainly isn’t afraid to do things differently! Mechanically, it’s so much better than the original so it feels great to play.
Gradually making my way through the game, and now at about hour 16, having just learned that Dina is pregnant and then I ran into Jesse. So here we go — more uncomfortable emotions from Naughty Dog! 😂. This time in the form of jealous and betrayal. It’s like ND just took every strong emotion they could think of and built a game around creating scenarios to make the player feel all of them.
I also have enjoyed a couple of these flashback episodes. So, so awesome. I particularly enjoyed the section at the museum. It’s as close to the “giraffe moment” in the first game as they’ve come, although there have been several quiet moments of reflection and wonder scattered throughout.
The gameplay continues to evolve and I’m amazed at how I’ve progressed into a one-woman army with an entire arsenal on my back. 😅 I have so many tools to utilize now that it’s an embarrassment of riches with regard to doling out death to the enemy.
The environments continue to amaze and astound with their attention to detail, art design, and chaotic beauty. The collectibles are really well hidden in all the post-apocalyptic rubble. I’m such an obsessive with trying to find all the items that I comb every location before moving on, but I still end up missing things. Pretty sure I’ve missed a couple collector cards and at least one safe. It’s no matter though, because I just having a great time with this game.
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Topic: The Last Of Us Part II - OT (No Spoilers)
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