Sony is reportedly revising its subscription services, with a new initiative codenamed Project Spartacus being touted behind closed company walls. This, it’s rumoured, will phase out streaming option PS Now and create three new PS Plus tiers. For many, the service will remain unchanged, offering the existing mix of discounts, cloud saves, and monthly games. However, an additional tier will see the inclusion of a library of PS5 and PS4 games, while a third premium option will promise features like streaming, extended demos, and access to retro titles.
Of course, this is all according to preliminary documentation obtained by Bloomberg, and it sounds like the platform holder is still devising the final details. Change does appear to be afoot, however, as evidenced by the recent removal of annual PS Now memberships from retail chains, and its reluctance to discount the service’s 12-month tier in recent promotional periods. Clearly, the manufacturer will phase that service out at some point in 2022.
So it raises the question, what can we reasonably expect from Project Spartacus? Ignoring what’s happening elsewhere in the industry, Sony’s subscriptions have been due a reboot for a good couple of years now, but as the public opinion increasingly sways towards Xbox Game Pass’ unprecedented value offering, the Japanese giant finds itself in an increasingly awkward spot. While questions are rarely ever asked of fellow rivals Nintendo, it’s expected for PlayStation to follow suit.
Jim Ryan, the company president, has insisted in the past that he will not put his firm’s games on a subscription service at launch: “We are not going to go down the road of putting new release titles into a subscription model. These games cost many millions of dollars, well over $100 million, to develop. We just don't see that as sustainable.” This was what he said before MLB The Show 21, a title developed by one of Sony’s first-party teams, launched into Game Pass.
It’s likely that PlayStation had its arm twisted on that front: MLB published the Xbox version of the baseball sim and presumably struck the deal with Sony’s Redmond rival. Furthermore, there’s no mention of first-party games like the upcoming God of War Ragnarok ever being part of the rumoured Project Spartacus at launch. This already puts the PlayStation alternative at a distinct comparative disadvantage, and it’s something that the organisation is going to have to navigate extremely delicately come launch.
Without day one first-party releases, then, how exactly can PlayStation make up for a perceived value deficit? Well, it’s probably safe to assume that Project Spartacus is going to have to come in at a cheaper price. For the most basic tier, we doubt there’ll be a change to PS Plus’ standard £49.99/$59.99 annual fee, and we expect the second option, which will apparently include access to a library of games, to be propositioned as a bolt-on, similarly to Nintendo Switch Online’s Expansion Pack.
It’s the premium tier that we’re most interested in: will Sony switch to a monthly fee for that? The most basic tier of Xbox Game Pass costs £7.99/$9.99, and that feels like the price that PlayStation will be targeting – although it could be argued it would need to undercut Microsoft if it’s not going to offer the same incentives of first-party games. One alternative may be for the manufacturer to provide heavy PS Store discounts on exclusives, incentivising purchases within its storefront – but again, there’s still a perceived value drop-off.
It’s going to be particularly fascinating to see whether the platform holder turns to third-party titles to make up the difference. In addition to Microsoft’s own releases, Game Pass has garnered a reputation for giving away third-party releases at launch, spanning both indie and major titles. Games like Outriders have launched into the service on day one, and that seems like an area that Sony could perhaps target – albeit at considerable expense to the organisation’s bottom line.
Perhaps it’s in retro content that Sony could make up for the deficit. It’s rumoured that PlayStation will offer PS1, PS2, and PS3 games as part of its highest tier subscription, again perhaps drawing parallels to Nintendo Switch Online’s Expansion Pack, where you get an application with new Nintendo 64 releases among others. This feels like it could work for PS1 titles at least, although it’s admittedly odd for the company to take a sudden interest in its back catalogue after largely dismissing it for years.
Game trials, similar to the way they’re implemented with EA Play, could also add some value we suppose. EA allows players to download games in their entirety and play them for 10 hours, although this largely suits the multiplayer focus of its releases – and the publisher’s conveniently excluded single player titles like Star Wars Jedi: Fallen Order from receiving full-length demos in the past. Given the types of games Sony makes, we’re not sure how it’s going to make this work.
The company could commit to adding full-length first-party games after a set period of time, say, six months – a little like Disney+ has done. While this may be appealing to some, it could ultimately harm launch day sales of games, without really doing anything to bridge the value chasm between whatever Sony’s offering and Game Pass. Of course, it’s worth mentioning that Disney+ has still found success against Netflix, despite generally shying away from day one availability.
Therefore it’s this challenging middle-ground that PlayStation’s going to have to strike. We imagine it’s going to have to lean heavily on partnerships with third-party publishers and indie developers, but whether it can compete with the bottomless pockets of Microsoft remains to be seen. All of this puts Sony in a precarious position: can it offer significant value to its customers without detracting from its existing business model and simultaneously avoid the pitfalls of a poor comparison against its competition?
We don’t envy Jim Ryan and upper-management’s position here – it’s going to have to really earn its corn on this one. As we’ve written in the past, some kind of rejigging of its subscription services feels necessary, but PlayStation can’t afford to half-arse this. PS Now has been stagnant for years now, and while PS Plus has its ups-and-downs, it’s clear there’s a need and demand for Sony to overhaul its offerings.
It looks like we’re going to get our wishes and a revision will roll out at some point this year. And yet this could be a defining moment for the PS5, as PlayStation looks to compete against seemingly impossible odds. PS Plus and PS Now need improving, but outside of its own ecosystem Sony needs to close the gap between its own services and Game Pass. A direct competitor seems unlikely, but PlayStation will need to work extremely hard to carve out that Disney+-esque gap in between.
Realistically, what do you expect from Project Spartacus and what would convince you to subscribe to its highest possible tier? How can Sony protect its existing business model without succumbing to a significant value deficit against a rebounding rival, and what does it need to offer to ensure your ongoing investment? Pay monthly in the comments section below.
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I'm going to have to see the pricing first. Then try to figure out if the "retro games" will be added to, on a consistent basis or if they'll drip feed it, like nso. And if those ps4/5/retro games will be downloadable.
Access to their legacy library. That’s my priority, even more so than day one drops. Give me the ability to play a high volume of older titles - like hundreds and hundreds - and I will pay around the game pass amount, probably more.
"what would convince you to subscribe to its highest possible tier?"
Probably nothing, tbh. Access to retro games would be cool, but if I'm paying GamePass-level prices, I'd expect access to first-party games on day one, and Sony just isn't going to do that.
I'm expecting to see just a literal combination of Plus and Now, nothing more added.
@Anke So more a rebranding, rather than a distinctly "new" service, then?
I expect games.
For me, I just don't see any conceivable way they can offer a service that passes the "comparison" test.
They can absolutely increase the value of both PS Plus and PS Now, and I think they could offer something that is great value for money, but I'm anticipating a lot of direct comparisons to Game Pass and Sony's solution falling short every single time.
This is a huge headache for them, because I really do think they need to reinvent their services, but it's going to be incredibly hard for them to overcome the direct comparisons.
Good luck to them!
I really want it to be the big time legacy collection that houses PS1-PS3 releases that allow us to play using our physical collection, along with purchasing digital titles.
But setting my expectations to "realism" level, it'll probably just be Plus and Now bundled together with some streaming stuff like HBO Max or Hulu bundled in.
Realistically? A price increase to keep the same a what we get now.
Sony can and will launch as a poor comparison. That is because, unlike Xbox, Sony has no intention of turning its business model full tilt into a rental subscription service. The rebrand's goal is to make better use of PS Now, bolster PS Plus, and give Sony "something" as an alternative. But Sony has no intention of beating out Xbox, so you won't see it making moves to take down Game Pass and instead just be a solid offering for the value paid. And as has been the case since before launch, the supposed thing that "Sony can't afford to do", Sony will in fact afford to do while still maintaining its success.
But what they need to do is innovate in some way that avoids direct comparison. Tough as Microsoft have a lot covered. Getting psNow onto mobile devices might be a good start.
@get2sammyb indeed, just something that makes the service simpler, therefore probably cheaper for Sony to maintain.
Basically keeping my hype in check. Happy to be wrong.
I'm not sure about all this..i mainly subscribe to plus so i can play online with friends..i purchase games from the store and whatever games we get offered each month are a bonus..but if it was free just to play online i wouldnt bother with the subscription at all..seeing as sony wont ever offer a free multiplayer service outside of the free to play games i guess they have me over a barrel..
I don't care much about older/retro games. More big third party/indie releases would the thing that adds value to me.
Games like The Pathless, Kena, Sifu, Stray and so on releasing Day One in a service would be really, really nice.
Regardless it will fall in the same camp as PC GamePass and UBI+ for me now on PC
If there are a few games I want to play (FarCry6 / Halo Infinite) I get it for a month or 2.
I canceled GamePass in Dec. No need if games like Horizon, GT and Elden Ring are out (Especially if I can rent any of them for $15 with GameFly on Day 1)
I keep PS+ for 12 months to play online. Only subs I keep for 12 months are PS+ and GameFly.
This is just a rumour and probably isn't true.
If the standard subscription remains as is and at the same cost then it’s not really addressing the complaints folks have had for a good while now. Adding extra tiers with additional charges is simply adding extra tiers with additional charges. So my guess would be that the standard level is either bolstered with something extra or gets a hefty price cut in tandem with current benefits being removed (most likely the monthly games), leaving just online, cloud saves and store discounts.
I'm expecting every PS game (first and third party) to be free for the first week of it's release.
Obviously the price is going to be important but for me the most important thing is that it's simply has to offer the ability to download all games on offer. If it's streaming only for certain titles then I'm afraid they won't get a penny from me
There's no way Sony will be adding 1st party games to the service within the first year of their release. Sony spend huge amounts of money and resources, has many, many well-established franchises and consistently create new IPs.
MS has had to spend billions on bolstering their lacklustre 1st party line-up, the kind of money that can only be spent if you're so wealthy you can absorb the kind of spending that would put other company's future at stake, because of their lack of investment for the last decade.
But Sony can't compete financially with MS and offer 1st party games day one on NowPlus.
It's frustrating because Sony have had PSNow going for many years, longer than GP has existed but they never tried to develop it. It's not available globally which I can't understand. It's such a good service with hundreds more games than GP across more console generations, half of them downloadable, and yet Sony has rested on their laurels with it since they introduced it.
It easily rivals GP. GP's only advantage is day 1 1st party inclusion which until now isn't much to write home about compared to Sony. Well that and how cheap it is of you do they foreign GP/Live VPN workaround to get it stacked for 3 years.
Clearly Sony has seen MS buying lots of studios, like Bethesda, and chucking huge amounts of cash, that most platform manufacturers can't afford, at publishers to come to GP and realise that MS' deep pockets can buy them a huge advantage without having to earn it through developing talent, innovating or trying to push the industry boundaries, like Sony has with VR.
I'm glad it's a wake-up call for them because PSNow, as good as it is, has been coasting for too long and becoming less and less relevant, especially as it doesn't include any PS5 updates. That's an area it will have to include. There's no way Sony can revamp their services without PS5 being the focal point.
Having said that it would be quite the statement if the service launched with all PS4 generation 1st party games being there, and maybe subscribers are offered discounts for all new PS5 games digitally that at least bring them back into line with the £50 RRP we were used to.
@Snake_V5 I think it's definitely true that some form of rebranding/reshaping will take place this year.
I don't expect it to even exist unless Sony actually announces it.
I'd hazard a guess at a selection of rotating ps1/2 games with trophy support to download. Maybe upscaled in a similar way the xbox would with legacy stuff.
Rotation of Ps3 streaming as they aren't going to piss about with getting an emulator going on the ps5 when it can be streamed.
Maybe a ps4 IGC like they used to do on the ps3. Or just access to the ps5 ps+ games that should be available on ps4 anyway.
And access to now.
I don't think that's too much if they are combining the services anyway. Also, I can only assume that they will do something to eff it up and will only have the benefits for ps5 users.
I will not hide the fact that I absolutely adore GamePass to pair with my Series X and it even affects my decisions to buy third party games on PS5. But even as a dual console owner, I know Sony can’t afford to do what MS is doing. And that’s not Sony’s fault. MS has deep pockets. Period.
So if they can’t match up to GamePass, then I want an affordable alternative that includes more retro/legacy games. BUT I want to be able to download them. Sony needs to create an emulator or something. Because I do not like streaming games.
PS Now sucks for streaming and even GamePass is not great and it may be years before any of them will be close to what I’d want. The thing I like about GamePass aside from the day one releases is that everything is downloadable.
The other thing Sony absolutely has to do is add PS5 versions of games. It’s currently another reason I had zero intention of renewing PS Now.
So downloadable retro/legacy games and PS5 versions of the newer games they do add are musts. Or I’ll just pass on by…
I have no idea why they are starting to try an copy x box in everthing. We don't need a game pass clone, ps now is already a beter service with more games and cheaper. So what that they can download more older games. Stop moaning about not having old things. Sony are trying to move forward and now all of a sudden want to start moving backward. Xbox has never moved into new territory, it's always been playstation that has done that, so why copy something inferior?
I have no iterest in project spartacus. It has no benefits over what I have now.
A combo of ps plus, ps now and cruchyroll would do me lol
@get2sammyb For the Ultimate tier , they could bundle Funimation and/or Crunchyroll subscription which could be interesting
I really don’t know what to expect but I would like to see 3 tiers. Tier 1 is dirt cheap, activating basic online functionality and access to ps plus discounts. Tier 2 grants access to a regularly updated ps plus collection and free monthly games. Tier 3 would have all the bells and whistles (streaming retro releases, crunchyroll…), with the option to buy new releases at a discount if bought within the first month. This could be a unique answer to gamepass.
Wouldn't be surprised if they combined them both and added crunchyroll.
I'm not sure I'll fork out for much more than a Plus tier (like we currently have) to be honest, unless they managed to offer something seriously tempting and if I'm honest, I don't actually know what they could do to tempt me.
I have GP, IMO it's not as insane value as some people make out. Lot of padding in there. I keep it mainly for the wee man so he can mess about with games on his PC.
So a GP clone, nah. Anime, nah.
Was anything else every said about the trial they run in Poland? Movies I think it was? Even then, I don't think that would be worth the extra for me?
Retro games? Again, not for me, very few I go back to an actually enjoy like I did at the time.
Seems I'm gonna be very difficult to impress 😂
They could nearly launch it with some of their recent first party titles. That would add value right out the door.
But yeah, I don't need them to clone Game Pass, or Nintendo's retro library.
Strike a nice middle ground and they'll do well.
Let me play a big catalog of ps1, 2 and 3 games...have a quality amount of current third party and 1st party legacy games along with Plus. Charge 14.99-19.99 a month with a deal on a longer sub purchase and call it a day. Easy GPU competition
Just make the service available worldwide and it'll already be better than GamePass.
Sony could put their first-party titles on their service after a certain amount of time. You could pay full price now, or wait a while and play it at no extra cost with your subscription. It's similar to what a lot of studios are doing with their movies currently. Though I'd be fine with a good catalog of retro games.
I'm not interested in the older catalog of games through subscription. I literally hate the way Nintendo does it as if I'm playing something older, I'm likely playing an old favorite or an older game of a new series or from a specific developer I got into from playing recent games. I'm not going to just randomly try old PS1, 2, or 3 games just because eh what the heck they are already on the service.
I'd much rather they just emulate the older systems and put the old catalog up for individual purchase but alas that doesn't look like it's happening. So long story short? I honestly have no idea what I'd want from this thing.
It will be weak at first. And grow into a giant, shadowing GamePass.
They need to make PS Now a streaming service for everything. Stream your PS5/PS4 games from PS Now on the go, even if you don't have it downloaded directly to your console, but you own them. That's a service that Sony needs to have. Heck, throw in PS3 game for that matter. The way PS Now is right now needs to go and it needs to be integrated into your entire digital catalog.
@LazyLombax You might be right. Given enough time and patience it could grow in to something very impressive after a few years. 🤔
Not much to be honest. Sony normally disappoints with these types of games. The only thing there good at is making good single player games.
My current PSNow sub to be continued of its out before October.
My expectations are that it's better quality and pricing than Nintendo Switch Online, especially better than the Expansion Pack.
No idea, but I hope they give us details soon. I rather like Gamepass, even if I’ve got a really low completion percentage using it. I find that I still complete most games I buy, but I find these types of services are more fun than the backlog tends to be, especially if it’s cloud based. I hope it’s cloud based. I like that I don’t have to install games on Gamepass.
Some form of legacy content and that's it. Won't be exactly the same type of service MS has, nor should it be.
My biggest worry about Gamepass is the impact it will have for the future of games. I think about a game like NBA 2K and how it used to come out for $40 with no micro transactions, and where it is today. I'm glad that PlayStation isn't going to release new games on a subscription model because, as Jim Ryan said, "We just don't see that as sustainable”. At some point, either the quality of games with suffer and be filled with mtx, or the subscription cost will skyrocket. So I would be happy with PlayStation just combining Plus and Now.
@Northern_munkey if I could play games online for free with mates, I really doubt I'd have plus. Rarely have time to play my backlog, good as some of it is.
I expect nothing.
Every time a gaming platform holder focuses on "new" business models instead of quality games they've ended up going out of business. This goes back decades.
At the end of the day people want good games, and you can't fund good games if you give them away for free. There's a reason Microsoft has never, ever released the income made by GamePass.
I really enjoy both Ps Plus and Ps Now as they are just now. If Sony could offer a few launch day 3rd party games and some sort of mobile streaming service were you could play PS Now content on your phone I'd be all over this as I am spending more time away from home at the weekends. Would be a huge incentive for me to pay for the premium tier.
With Sony you never know.
My wish list:
PS5 games
NO day one releases (I have loads of games to play and no time; paying more for day one releases I won’t get to for months is worse than pointless)
A commitment to add classic PS1&2 games every month WITH trophy support
Streaming to my phone that works
No games being removed. Have them on there or don’t, I don’t have sufficient time to finish games on your schedule. I don’t mind waiting an extra year or two.
Discounts of at least 75% on ALL DLC for the included games: as well as the usual discounts of course.
I think that’s doable.
As a subscriber since day one and has a subscription that currently expires June 25 I expect to get ***** in the ass
Give me backwards compatibility for PS1, PS2 and PS3 and I’m in.
PS Now is already a great service for a lot of old PS3 games. But to go back further and deeper into both catalogues I’m totally down.
Up to £100 a year for that is more than worth it and I highly doubt it’ll even come close to that
It really feels like Sony are trying to go the Nintendo route and holding the price of first party games for as long as possible now. The latest games, even last of us 2 Don't see discounts as quickly, or often or as deep as they used to be.
Think it's more likely going to be the retro route. Would be amazing if they can somehow unlock your existing PS3 purchases. They might get stuck behind licencing issues
Honestly don't know what to expect but I know I won't be buying into it past the equivalent of current PS+ as I'm happy enough with the service as is.
That said I do have game pass and I doubt Sony can compete with it anyway. Once you're into GP you can get it free forever through their rewards system. I pay for it and basically use rewards as free store money. In the last year alone I've cashed in almost £200 and right now my copy of Elden Ring will be free due to reward points sitting in my account. No matter what Sony offer they won't be giving away free money.
I just want plus and now to be combined, don’t care about any of the choices on the poll
I don't really know what they can do, and I'm pessimistic of what they will do. The whole draw of Game Pass is the day-1 access to the biggest games on the platform. We know going in there's more chance of Geoff Keighley becoming humble than Sony releasing day 1 access to their big games.
But I don't know what they could offer that could really make it worth it? Give me discounts on their games....for $120+ a year? Those had better be steep discounts to justify spending that money with the prime selling point being savings, otherwise there aren't actually savings. I can't see them doing that. I would love to see a kickback/rewards program on the digital store to incentivize buying digitally on the console, something no vendor really does in a meaningful way, that balances digital pricing matched against retail, but that's separate from a subscription, that's just the store.
But what CAN they offer? If the other guys are offering new games at a monthly price, how do you dress up a service who's whole point is offering old games to be competitive? A good compromise might be as suggested, a fixed period, games added after 6 months, or a year, or something. That might justify it. A year from launch.
Legacy library is fun and all, but Now already had a lot of PS3 and isn't selling that great. And the mass market, Sony's real market, doubtfully cares much at all about PS1/PS2 games. That's our small niche of long-time enthusiasts that's interested in that. That won't be how they build out the service, they want something to appeal to the masses.
The problem they have is, what Game Pass revolutionized was subscription service to both access a large legacy/indie library plus select big new titles, plus every first party title at launch. The subscription sells itself because you know for a fixed fee you get to play all the big games, at launch.
How do you compete with that? You don't, really, not directly. But adding value elsewhere isn't easy. Adding video? I don't really watch video so it means nothing to me, that's why I subscribe to a gaming service. Add more games? They've had more games from the start with Now. Add discounts? They better be steep to justify the club membership. Add retro content? Reach only a small niche of hardcore veteran gamers. Be cheaper? They already had cheaper with Now and it wasn't selling like they wanted.
So other than better marketing, what really can be changed in a rebrand? I'd like to think they're going to be creative and offer me something valuable. I WANT to subscribe. But I fear I'll end up being cynical about whatever they offer, because, let's face it, Jim Ryan's business approach does not often cross with offering value and buying consumer good will. It's usually just about raising the height of the paywall for things he knows people already wanted. Jim Ryan's business approach mostly crosses with Hiroshi Yamauchi's, except without the "totally not a yakuza"....questionable.....tactics.
@Shigurui You have me curious now...how are you getting reward money like that? I've heard things here and there about it, but never really did any such thing. IDK if I even have points stashed away or anything.
I don't need PS Now and I don't need the Xbox modell of bargain pass.
I want to put in my PS2 and PS3 discs into my PS5 and I'm all happy.
Is it possible that Triple A Games will now hold back Levels already developed, to be offered as DLC - which re-opens the argument of how long a Game should be - for a Non-Open World
FPS then I am happy to purchase DLC if I have got a good solid 15hrs Gameplay. -
I suppose the Game Pass Format would mean Developers would get Paid for every user of the Game, rather than just the Initial Purchase, where-after Games are passed on to other Users via Trade-in Stores
Let's be real, sony's gonna drop the ball on this one. Maybe with enough backlash, they'll straighten themselves out.
It’s a numbers game. Maybe if your user base is at 50 million it doesn’t make sense, but when your user base exceeds 100 million…
Let’s say a game goes on sale and sells 5 million during launch and another 8 million over the course of its life through discounts. Assuming discounts of 50%, that would bring in around $590 million.
Put it on a service that only cost $10 a month, but has 100 million viable candidates and it only takes 60% buy in to get that amount in ONE month. Want to guess what the buy in is for Microsoft’s GamePass? 60%.
Seems like easy money to me.
@NEStalgia - Just from using the rewards app and doing the daily, weekly and monthly tasks. Playing featured GP games, earning achievements. Then there's the Bing searches, doing quizzes, polls etc. That takes around 5 minutes a day. It all adds up.
I'm not expecting anything more specific than a change in the PS plans. Microsoft is one the richest companies in the world. I don't know how anyone else can give away so much content with Game Pass. Which means Sony shouldn't try to compete with it like others have mentioned.
I don't want them to add their first party titles to a $15 subscription. MS is turning everything into live service junk so of course they're fine with giving away their first party games for $15 a month. Even their big releases like FH5 launch with $60+ worth of microtransactions and Halo is missing features most previous games launched with, but don't worry there's $1000 worth of microtransactions in the first year alone! No one cares though cause its "fReE". Most of the 3rd party stuff that comes to GP is live service multiplayer crap like B4B, the awful looking new Rainbow Six game, etc.
If you want the same from Sony then say goodbye to great single player titles like GoW and GoT and you'll get more Destruction All Stars crap made to nickel and dime you every way they can.
As long as I can get good games from ps plus monthly games and still play online for the same price, Idc what they do with these. I don't have netflix, disney plus etc., but I don't know how people can pay all of those services. It's like cable TV all over again since everyone is making a "channel".
I don't like paying for services which I will only watch/play 10% of what's offered.
I won't expect first party games to be included day one, perhaps a decent discount might be good.
But to get a full library from all the legacy systems playable on PS5 (including handhelds) would be very cool, especially if streaming is not required as per the recently Cerny patent for BC.
I personally just want day one releases, not first party and I want backwards compatibility by emulator! Would be awesome.
The first party games I seriously love supporting the studios when they do a good job so I don't mind. Besides they are still the selling point of ps consoles
What do you think they do with existing subscription time if they have a tiered subscription model? I'm subscribed to PS+ until Feb 2025.
Im no expert but lately I find Sony to closer to Nintendo than Microsoft in the way they play their card.
So just like with the NSO expansion pack, I expect that I’ll find the cost too important for what it is at least at first.
My biggest hope here is that if they get to emulate PS3 then I’ll be able to play the game I already paid for without further cost. There’s a few games I bought digital on PS3 that I’ve been meaning to play but don’t want to buy the PS4 version of dust of the old PS3… I just like the new controllers better.
Let me download every title on whatever their PS Now replacement is and I would be onboard day one. I understand the challenges, but it is what needs to happen IMO. It would be a way to SIGNIFICANTLY increasing the value of PS Now without having to take a huge hit in added overhead.
They don't really need there exclusive games to be day one to compete with game pass ,let's be honest at the moment sonys games 1st party games are a completely different level to microsofts offerings ,however they do need a smattering of day one 3rd party games as well as there older games ,bundle this in with the ps now service and they have a game pass killer.
A big collection of games from ps1 , PS2 & PS3 would have me signed up day one
@mucc - FH5 launched with a £37 add-on pass, like almost every other game out there. If it follows the quality of the FH3/4 add-ons then it's superb value. Halo MP is 100% free and it's mtx are on par with any F2P shooter, Apex, Warzone etc.
As for 3rd party game pass being live service multiplayer crap, I guess you missed Resi 7, Control, Nier Automata, Plague Tale, Mass Effect Legendary, Octopath Traveler, Aragami 2, Code Vein, Yakuza Collection/Like a Dragon, MLB, Scarlet Nexus, Outer Wilds, Hades and many more single player games.
You don't have to like the service but don't make it out to be something it clearly isn't.
@NEStalgia if you've never collected them you'll definitely have points, just go to the reward section of the dashboard and follow the instructions
@Jammsbro Xbox has always lead Playstation. Online play and voice chat was an afterthought on Playstation, now Xbox has GamePass which is a great service. Backward Compatibility. When it comes to features Xbox usually leads. PSNow is just a clone of what Xbox wanted to do with the always online that everyone complained about. I enjoy my Playstation but Xbox tends to have the better features.
@BeerIsAwesome that is a option that I keep hoping for.
I actually am satisfied with Plus, so anything that's added is gravy. I haven't paid more than $35 for a year of it in ages, so a couple games I wanted and didn't own a year makes it a fine value.
With that said I want to see legacy titles, mostly. I don't think lots of new releases at launch is realistic, and honestly, this actually happens occasionally on Plus already - see Deep Rock Galactic.
I'd also like to see PS4 gamers get a static collection of great games like PS5 owners. It's insane to me they have that entire instant collection with the same sub.
Judging from this comment section, expectations are all over the place and that's exactly why that middle ground will be hard to find. Can't wait to see what they do, though, because taking a step backwards would be hard to do from where they currently stand.
im hearing we'll get access to ps now titles, all of them, as more get included.. plus rumor of ps1 and ps2 and ps3 titles to starting incoming as well as PSP titles. dunno. i always said, why doesnt sony just lump in ps now with ps plus, and charge 80-100 bucks a year? the 3 tier thing.. they need to sway from, i think. just offer 1 subscription, not 3.
as for nintendo, i rarely touch my switch and the only reason i pay for the online service is because its $20 per year and you get nes and snes games. for a higher offering of i think $50 a year, you get n64 games as well. $50 a year to play retro games is LOL to me. u cant even voice chat on the switch without a stupid phone app. what games do they have to play online co op? that arent 720p blurry messes? $50 a year is just hilariously stupid.
offer me ps now, ps1, ps2, ps3, psp games on the PS5 and i'll throw $100 a year at it. but! i wanna see many games get some kind of frame rate upgrade. im not playing blurry ps2 and ps3 games at 30 frames!
Super low chances, but if top tier will let you play PS1, PS2 and PS3 games natively via built in emulator, i will be really surprised and Sony will have my money for it.
@Shigurui No there isn't just a 37 add on pass, I'm looking right now on Steam and there's $126 worth of DLC. Obviously some of that is part of stuff that comes from the larger DLC packs but its still way more than 37 euros. There's so much DLC I can't even figure out what is part of the car pass, the expansion pass, and what isn't. Still doesn't change the fact that everything I said was correct about them making everything live service so they make their money in the back end.
Wow amazing list, most of those are so old you can own for less than $20 a piece not to mention they've been on Ps Now, PS Plus, and other subscription services like Humble Bundle. I'm not saying everything is crap, but most of the day one 3rd party stuff it gets is clearly live service stuff and indie crap like the Gunk. Its funny how so many people ***** on PSNow yet the same games show up on both services quite a lot.
anything $ony has done after xbox has always been second-rate . it won’t be better than game pass and PSN isn’t better than Xbox Live .
i'm just expecting ps+ , along with psnow , maybe their anime streaming service. reading some of these comments i think people are expecting way too much. they act like sony's going to turn on some switch , and you can pop in a ps1 or ps2 disc and like magic it will work. i can already tell you , 100% if you expect that , its not happening.
Combine ps plus and psNow, the ability to trial ALL games (very unlikely I know) before buying and all games in the library to be fully downloadable.
A nice touch would be an xp type reward system, so, you earn xp for a trophy for example and than as you level up you unlock maybe new themes or cosmetic items to personalise your home screen etc. Or earn virtual currency to spend in the store on games or dlc. We all love that loop of earning xp and levelling up so why not add it to these platforms..
All PSVR games.
How is that not a category?
Honestly? Nothing.
They're going to merge PSNow and Plus.
2 price tiers - First is just plus, the more expensive one is Now and Plus. That's it.
@mucc - My point about the £37 pass was that it got you all launch DLC including the future expansions, if it totals £100+ separately then that is what it is.
As for the games I listed, they aren't live service regardless of value, you said that's mostly all 3rd party GP offers, I showed it isn't, feel free to list the huge amount of service games on GP though.
@tselliot exactly, people are expecting way too much , and people are just going to be upset.
The mistake here is comparing the Sony/Microsoft offerings.......i can hear the complaints already. Sony is between a rock and a hard place. As others have said im expecting it just to be plus & now combined with maybe something else dropped in. No way will we be getting anything like day 1 releases but thats what some will be expecting. I am quite happy with the way they release games on Plus just now. Yeah we get a couple of duds now and again. But i am happier with this model.
@Robinsad Game Pass Ultimate lets you stream to your mobile/laptop/tablet devices already, with a heavy influx of games even having built-in touch controls as an additional option. Streaming quality varies of course, but Microsoft already has this angle covered. If you could download PS1 and PS2 games directly onto your phone to play? Now, that would be an innovative angle (let me dream).
From everything we've heard, it sounds like it's going to be a beefed-up sexier version of what Nintendo does for the Switch, rather than a Game Pass competitor: legacy games, subscription tiers, etc. It would be cool if they could offer a more flexible cloud streaming option with Now on portable devices (and probably will, considering the Axure collaboration announced a few years ago)...but unless they start offering Day One first-party (which they never will), it can't threaten Game Pass. They might be able to coax third-party/second-party releases for Day One, but I wouldn't bet the bank on it.
@ED_209 me too. I love short games and indie titles. Wish more https://twitter.com/_wholesomegames were on PS. And I would love Sony to do more to get indie titles in their lineup. Bugsnax was such a win for PS5 day one.
I hope Sony plans something similar to Bluepoints remasters, but for VR. I'm thinking classic games like Bioshock, Resistance, Killzone, Condemned, Amnesia etc etc...
Every two months or so they can pump out some classic games remastered for PSVR2 , both 1st party and 3rd party, either for about $30 per game or part of this new Plus reboot.
I'd sub to that in a heartbeat, and it would really help PSVR2 take off. If they plan on getting this service on PC it's good too; Sony keeps new exclusives but makes something MS and Nintendo just doesn't have.
Ps1.ps2.ps3 and psp games would be amazing.thats what i really want.so many memories.the nostalgia is extremely high on these games.that what makes PlayStation 🐐 👑 the g.o.a.t.word up son
Streaming service in Australia.
This will never happen but I wish the tiers would be completely different.
Drop the monthly games completely. Reduce the price of the base tier to something like £15/year which gives you access to online gaming only.
On that same tier, if both specific developers and Sony really want to. Release that sort of on-the-road-to-f2p style game like Rocket League/Destruction All Stars/Deep Rock Galactic as an occasional "bonus" for those who are interested. That will increase the player base of these games and allow the Devs/publishers to make their desired MTX income.
Second tier should include the above and the streaming/download rental-like subscription service that game pass is. Including any rumoured retro games and everything that's been suggested.
If they insist on fragmenting the user base further then charge a bit extra for a third tier that nets the Sony exclusives and key third party titles day one on release.
The 15% that think we’re getting 1st party day one is very delusional. Maybe they misread the poll question. It was not the dream scenario. I’m in the minority but I really want demos for all games.
First party PS4/PS5 games after a certain period (a year...perhaps even nine months) for the top tier would definitely interest me...I rarely buy day one anyway, but the option is still there for those who can't wait or don't want to subscribe, and the value is there for those who can.
But maybe more realistic is an expanded now with more recent or even new third party games included. Would be tempted if the price is right.
I think it’s hilarious so many people want old games when all the complaints I hear about GP is that it’s just “old games.” No one is happy.
Would be cool is it also included a TV streaming service. Doesn’t Sony own crunchy roll or something?
Well Microsoft really ruined the gaming industry already with how they drove the prices up on everything. They really don't have all that great of a game catalog until this past yr when almost all studios make a game cross platform. You really have alot of halo heads on xbox where PlayStation is way more diverse in players, just like reading the comments they are widely varied. So it would be hard for Sony to come up with something like that, but its not like Microsoft is giving away a ton of day one releases either. Ps now is better all around they just don't have a huge variety in the way most good games on there players have bought already, and not all the games are downloadable and it costs way more. But even with what it lacks its still better than Microsoft. Even Ps plus even though I feel its a rip off of a service its still better than the game pass most months. And Im not taking up for Sony by far its a high price to rent a game that you may not even like and to play online if multiplayer is your thing, or a merger discount on digital games that have no value after your done with it, and especially if you never play it ever again, plus the fact when support goes down for the system you might lose the game completely. But for me I would love to see a full catalog up there, retro and all, a tournament that you can pay into to win cash or game credits, something for the multiplayer fans/pvpers, Im not one but would tune in to watch matches or the competition, they have a huge movie and tv catalog and anime they could be offering through playstation, bring back the game collection that rotates every month like they did on PS3, get some Nintendo exclusives on playstation, Nintendo grabs up whatever good games they can from other platforms, maybe pal back up with Nintendo for a shared experience. Once Microsofts rip off windows money dries up it would be hard for them to beat out Sony and Nintendo on a united front. The possibilities are endless with making money but Sony makes bad decisions on their media and products, but I stll love them even though they have major faults they have always delivered the best possible products giving the bad decisions memory sticks. Lol I hope for the best though, maybe they will read through the Playstation community comments and figure out something that meets the needs of the whole while being the best for them.
I'm not expecting much more than shallow attempts to increase revenue.
Sony`s track record has shifted decidedly away from being gamer focused and considerate, toward just another corporation trying to squeeze every dollar they can out of anything they are a part of.
Maybe we will get psplus standard edition, psplus remake, psplus remaster, and psplus directors cut. Oh and of course psplus next Gen, because Sony believes in generations (if generations means same thing as last Gen but with an option to have a better resolution psplus UI, or a 60hz UI, but..... Not both at the same time🙃 'Cause that will be trickle released later as next Gen pro for another round of cash rather than implement already available tech now).
Only a 10 dollar upgrade between the for those last Gen pspluses to perform better..... . Oh and don't forget, we'll throw in some anime, partial games to try and get you to buy the full game and old games we have already re-released a dozen times.
Woot!!!!
I have more then 50 psone digital games in my PS3 and i wish i can play them on dual sence.
and without mention the physical games i allready have from all retro PS consoles, just wish PS5 can read all the retro, i would pay extra for that.
they should made a PS5 special retro edition on 25 ANNIVERSARY can read retro ps1 to ps5 games
i would pay 1000 bucks for it and more
JUST IMAGINE PS5 SONY PLAYSTATION 25TH ANNIVERSARY retro edition.
That can play PS1 to PS5 games
TAKE MY MONEY.
i dont expect anything more than repackaged version of whats already on offer
Jim did say he won't put day one games there, but he's said a lot of things that turned out to be lies.
In the quote it's said they cost 100+ million to make, Xbox has at least 20 mil. Subs, the lowest subscription is 10 bucks, which means they win 200 000 000 million a month at least. It seems pretty sustainable to me.
As Netflix, Spotify and all the other services have proven, this seems to be the future.
Xbox has made 4 games from their studios this gen, 2 is on PS, one is a simulator and the other a car game and yet they have almost caught up with console sales, and that's because of GamePass. And sales don't include PC and cloud clients.
If they're doing so well without many games, imagine when all their studios start actually publishing their games.
Whatever happens competition is good for us all. I have both consoles and can't wait to play everything they have.
This probably won't be a popular opinion but I truely feel that Sony needs to match Gamepass here or go further if possible. Comparisons will always be made and if the price is too steep and doesn't offer the equivalent of gamepass then alot of people won't purchase it. You look at Halo, the new Elderscrolls, outerworlds 2 ect and they will be day 1 releases on Xbox which is amazing if you're a fan of them. If Sony could do the same with thier games then it would be a massive deal and people will be over the moon I think. Like I said, just my honest opinion.
@XenoCrossZ
TL;DR It's supply constraints and dodgy sales numbers closing the gap in console sales - not Game Pass.
Microsoft haven't 'almost caught up with console sales' because of Game Pass, they've almost caught up because 1) Sony can't make enough consoles to match demand due to chip shortages and 2) the Series X and Series S sales are conveniently a combined number - I could have walked into any major outlet in the past 12 months and picked up a Series S off the shelf - but not a PS5.
So right now the sales figure comparison is flawed - it's a production numbers comparison, boosted for Microsoft by a baby ass console with baby features compared to the two big boys.
Let's wait until there are no supply constraints as I'm sure Sony will re-establish their lead almost immediately once they can match demand - even if all they do is combine Plus and Now.
What is everyone’s obsession with “day one” first or third party releases? Wouldn’t you rather, for the same price, 4 games that are a bit older rather than one on day of release? (games make the majority of their money at release so would be far more expensive for Sony to acquire day one).
I mean, if everyone is caught up on videogames then sure, it would avoid having bought a game previously that is added, but I simply cannot believe that the majority of adults are anywhere near having tried all the games they might possibly be interested in. The majority of us have jobs and partners right?
Microsoft isn't close to breaking even on Gamepass, and I personally doubt the business model works. Netflix are raising their prices again, and they still haven't reached the point where they make a profit.
Games are harder because they'll always be more niche, production costs are high, and losing a £60 purchase stings more than losing a £10 cinema ticket. And films still make the bulk of the revenue in cinemas before going to streaming.
Microsoft are hoping they can drive their competition out of business, and then jack their prices up and cut their content down.
@nomither6 i cant work you out at all..you obviously are not happy with sony (seem to love xbox and game pass) so why are you here exactly? Are you a troll looking for attention? Or do you just like trying to be controversial? If you dont have anything constructive to add why not just go back to your corner and leave the rest of us in peace..
To really rival game pass it will need first and third party on day of release. Sony however have already said that game pass is a loss making enterprise so I doubt we will see spiderman2 drop onto our version.
@ScepticDK i wouldnt say microsoft a multi billion dollar company is a loser! And as much as i love sonys brand they are not the leaders when it comes to quality..their tv's whilst nice are way behind other brands in terms of functionality and their lack of hdmi inputs is bewildering sometimes..heck not even their games are anywhere near the quality that nintendo put out..so i find your comment to be unfounded and i'm glad you dont speak for the rest of us..
I just want to continue my PS Plus service at $59 a year and on sale in holiday season for $39!! I do NOT care for Game pass Ultimate at $180 a year. With games like Halo Free and MLB the Show 21 that I don't even care to play care to play. Microsoft is also closing the conversions of game pass to ultimate loophole now.
@mucc
let's see: Gears Tactics, Flight Sim, Psychonauts 2, Age of Empires and Halo Campaign.
FH5 is also a single player game with hundreds of cars at launch. Having DLC doesn't change that.
All single player experiences on Game Pass. Deathloop would be on that list too had Sony not kept games of Xbox.
I cannot see Sony giving away all their BIG first party games for a 'small' increase over the cost of PS+. Game Pass Ultimate, which includes Gold and EA Play, is £11 a month...
MS and Sony both are on different paths too so not in 'direct' competition. MS's primary platform is Game Pass - they paid $7.5bn for Bethesda to ensure Game Pass has big games to make you want to Subscribe - regardless of whether you buy an Xbox Console or not!
They don't care if you choose to sign up on PC/Mobile instead, just as long as you are a Subscriber. All their deals benefit GP, MLB21, Outriders etc came to Game Pass subscribers - the rest of the Xbox community had to buy it, just like PS owners.
Sony want you to buy a PS5 and the games are there to tempt you in.They want that £70 for Day 1 PS5 Premium price and not going to give away them for a £10 monthly fee. They want the '#1 selling' title too, not going to get that if they give the game away to Subs.
At best, I can see Sony maybe giving you access to games 6-12months later, once the sales and prices drop and its 'addition' to a subscription service can be used to Sony's advantage. For example, the addition to Subscription services gives Sony another chance to bring attention to a game that's 'dropping' in sales and media news, thus potentially increasing sales to 'non-subscribers' and pushing others to subscribe...
I don't think the strategy of gatekeeping first party releases access onto any subscription service behind purely time will work. Most of the sony big hitters I enjoy are single player, 10-40 hr experiences like last of us 2, uncharted 4, God of war, hzd, GoT, Spiderman etc. Am I going to pay £70, a price point I have an issue with given its a £20 rise from previous gen, when I am paying £90 a year for a combined plus/now tier and can wait 12 months to play the single player game, when it will be in a better state than at launch and will have a resurgence in discourse anyway because it hits a sony subscription service? Even if I'm not subscribed, the retail price will drop dramatically at that stage otherwise you could just subscribe for a month and cancel. I actually don't know what's best for both sony and consumers. I've had a playstation 1 through 5 and just hope that they can navigate the next few years with the model of making the types of games they do, as they are the type of games I enjoy the most.
Whatever their business model is gonna be, if they don't improve the PS now, and just mix the existing service with PS+, it's not gonna end well for Spartacus (pun definitely intended).
PS Now suffers a lot from a lack of care and attention from Sony's part, a proper huge investment to make it likable, attractive, worth paying the subscription money.
Quick fact
I had PS Now for 1 year between 2020 and 2021. The main reason for trying it was to replay some of the PS3 games i like (the God Of War games, Infamous 1 and 2 etc). After finishing them, I tried to play Bloodborne, since it was available.
A few impressions (there are much more, but i'll keep it short).
1. Very hard way of finding a game in the available library. No proper game classifications, no proper catalog, no way to build your own library, and worst of all: no search option! The last one left me O_O... in 2021 a service like this doesn't have a simple gorram Search option? What the capital F Frack, Sony?
2. The streaming is capped at 1080p, even if the game you play is a PS4 title that supports resolutions bigger than that (MK11 for example). This is a HUGE letdown, especially when you have an internet connection of ~1000Mbps, that can more than handle the traffic.
3. NO DLC's included with the games! Another HUGE letdown. If you want to play Bloodborne, for example, you won't be able to access the Old Hunters DLC, which reduces the fun to 50%! Shame, utter shame.
4. A rather small library of games that is not so great.
So yeah, after the subscription ended, i never renewed it.
And I won't invest in this service again until they properly fix all of the points above, and more.
IMO the 3 tiers of Spartacus will cost 60$, 90$ and 120$ (same prices in Euro for Europe)
You won't catch me giving 120$ on PS+ + PS Now if they don't heavily improve the latter.
Sony should definitely quit half assing it and take action if they want to make Spartacus viable.
Either make the service worth the money we pay for it, or pull the plug and be done with it!
I have a dreadful feeling they plan to copy NSO on this and make PS1, PS2 and PS3 exclusives available for PS4 AND 5 but lock them behind a rental fee and streamed only. This would be very ok. But not ideal at all. Game streaming simply isn't there yet with the latency issue. I would be extraordinarily disappointed with a move such as this.
Ideally they would copy GamePass and emulate whatever they can that's possible and make them downloads that are individually purchaseable. This would be a HUGE influx of amazing exclusive titles and could be the greatest modern business move in video gaming, if they allowed our former purchases via the PS store on PS3 to be part of this. The older gen games (especially PS2) have been largely untouched for ages. If they somehow made it so our old Discs would work as keys for downloads like Xbox does, holy crap, watch out Microsoft. I adore my PS4 as is, but if I could have a complete library of older titles as well on it? I don't think I'd ever touch my Xbox again.
I think the new services won't have New, day one first-party games. The service will be compared to Xbox's one and be regarded a failure because of that.
I don't care for services like this. I buy a game I like. Having all games delivered day one devalues the experience for me. In the past when I had a PC I had all new games (not legal) and it devalued gaming for me.
@Balthier H:ZD for example cost about $45-50m to develop - although that was spread out over a few years and includes all the salaries and overheads incurred over that time. 25m subs paying on average $10 a month (some less on deals, others more on Ultimate) is $250m a month or $3bn a year. With say 25 studio's, you could say that's $10m a month per studio to pay wages, overheads etc to keep making games and therefore, by the time they 'release', they have effectively been 'paid' and that game has already been funded so any 'sales' are pure profit. They don't need to sell 5m copies to recuperate all those years of development costs, they were 'paid' by Subscribers.
MS paid $7.5bn on Bethesda to get more Subscribers into Game Pass - not necessarily to sell more 'Xbox' consoles as Game Pass and those games will be on PC/Mobile. Even if you 'buy' an Xbox console, they want you to subscribe and Series S/X is a great Game Pass platform. The more Subscribers, the more 'money' they get 'per month', the more studio's that can support. I doubt any Studio has $10m monthly running costs! Of course some of that monthly money is going to numerous 3rd party studios too for their games on the service, the upkeep of the servers for streaming etc so its not as straight forward as that but then if you are bringing more and more into the Xbox ecosystem, they are spending money and time there which also helps so they don't 'need' to sell their own games to break even and any who don't subscribe are still buying their 1st party games too...
@Shigurui love the xbox rewards program, just got a free controller from design lab with my points and still have 11k left.
It is all about money from what I see.
My hope is that new service will generate Sony enough money to bring more AAA titles.
Because even though I am minority I choose platform based on quality without looking at price and I do not mind paying more. Just getting the high quality.
I only hope base PS+ will remain cheap and good value with games you keep forever and even possibly better but NOT more expensive. Gamers who have limited budget should not be penalised because a loud minority and press pro gamepass marketing demands more from always online subscription and want to pay more
I expect a lot of gaslighting from Sony fans who defended the old PS Plus from us plebeians who thought it was a ripoff.
IF the details are correct:
Tier 1 - basically PS+ as it is now
Tier 2 - as 1 but with availability of PS4 games, PS5 maybe later
Tier 3 - as 2 but with some backwards compatibility gameplay, demos (PS4 says hello at this point!)
I mean who would pay extra for #2 when you could go to a shop and buy a game or order it online? Apart from the DOE PS5 owners (are they regretting it yet?) which PS4 or PS5 disc owners wouldn't just buy a game at a discounted rate from Amazon or a retail shop?
Tier 1 should remain as is and hopefully retain the same price point (still think RRP of £40 was more what it was worth than £50).
Tier 3 is very much dependent on what games are available from older platforms - if it's the current Z list titles for PS1, 2 and 3 (with no DLC) that it'll be one of Sony's biggest ever flops.
@BleedingDreamer take away backwards compt, what does gamepass have over ps?
@Jammsbro day one first and third party titles. You do not need GamePass to play BC titles, you just need to own the game. I didn't get GamePass until a couple months ago I figured it only had those games no one really cared for but it has alot to offer. I was impressed with it. Outriders and Back 4 Blood are 2 games I would have never bought or played but once they are removed from the service I will have to pick them up.
@Balthier MS haven't had the 'growth' they expected but as of April 21, they had over 23m, up from 18m in Jan but we haven't had an official update. They had hoped for nearly 50% growth through the year but its supposedly at about 37% which is still good. My 25m subs was based on 'guestimates' (less than the 30m that was 'rumoured' in Sept 21) and just to keep the 'maths' more simple.
Even if they have a 'consistent' 20m subs with new subs and those who leave generally balancing themselves out, that's still 200m a month and still 2.4bn a year. They currently have 23 studio's and 'some' are not 500+ staff big but '25' made the maths easy again.
The point I was trying to illustrate is that a game isn't 'funded' all at once but over the 2+yrs of paying staff salaries and studio overheads, paying voice actors etc that over time can add up to 50m+. As long as the amount of money coming in a month is 'enough' to keep those staff paid, keep the Studio's bills paid etc, then by the time the game releases, its essentially paid for by the Subscribers.
With 23 studio's, they each have a 'monthly' cost (staff salaries, studio rent, electricity, water rates etc) so as long as you are bringing in at least enough people to cover those and any 'extras' (Voice Actors, Voice recording studio time, Mo-Cap actors and mo-cap studio time etc) when required, those games are already paid for by Subscribers to give them away 'free' to Subscribers. That's without those non-subscribers who have to buy to play, just like before, but now they don't have to sell 5m copies to break even, recuperate all those 'costs' that built up over 2+yrs.
Of course there is numerous other 'costs' that Subscription money has to go to - like maintaining servers, making deals with indie/3rd party devs to put their games on GP and the staff doing all of that. They had to update ALL their Servers with Series X hardware to stream 'next gen' games to Mobile/Last Gen hardware.
However, once you are in Game Pass, spending time in the Xbox Ecosystem and obviously selling a LOT of hardware, then those people are spending money in their Store which contributes to their monthly income.
They certainly didn't buy Zenimax to boost their 'Console' specifically, they bought Zenimax to sell Game Pass Subscriptions whether on Console, PC or Mobile. You don't 'need' a Series Console to play Redfall or Starfield as they will be on PC too - they want you to Subscribe and if that means you buy a Series S/X as its the only Console that Game Pass is on and can play Starfield 'locally' (not streamed), even better.
Sony want you to buy a PS5 so their games will be on PS5 'first' - maybe coming to PC a year or so later. They aren't going to give away their exclusives for $10 a month when they are charging $10 just because you have a PS5. You could literally subscribe for a month a blast through their 'SP' experiences that they want $70 for.
MS are trying to get to a position where there is 'something' big every month to keep you subscribed. That's not just their 'first' party games which may well be about 1 every 3 months, so they have Xbox Publishing - Publishing 3rd Party games (like Contraband from Mad Max/Just Cause developer Avalanche) and 3rd Party multi-platform releases (like MLB21, Outriders, B4B, R6: Extraction, Plague Tale etc). January 22 is a 'bad' month for new games, yet Game Pass is getting R6:Extraction ($40 to everyone else) as well as R6: Seige and Hitman - assuming you have completely finished FH5, Flight Sim, H:I campaign, B4B or any of the previous releases. Game Pass Ultimate - which also includes Gold and EA: Play - also gets Mass Effect: Legendary too so even in a 'bad' month, there is enough reasons to keep subscribing.
Its not like Netflix where you can easily binge watch a series and films over a month and 'quit' -having watched 'everything' (or the vast majority) of what you wanted and not likely to 're-watch' soon. A LOT of games have MP, Co-op modes, hundreds of hours worth of content with exploration, side quests etc to do. A lot of games take longer than a film and some TV series just to complete the story. Quitting takes away access to those games and unless you are struggling on budget, there is enough 'new' coming soon, as well as finishing off GP games to play for less money a month than an indie costs - Artful Escape $20, but GP is $10.
@ScepticDK i just thought we were discussing overall quality over quantity..i guess i misconstrued what you wrote but thanks for replying in a non aggressive,abusive manner which some posters would resort to..
I have zero interest in old games. I don’t want to pay again for hundreds of games I’ve already paid for and played already. I’d be happy with just a merge of the 2 platforms and a bigger range or games to download.
Realistically I think that’s what we are getting, along with more older games added to that model.
To be honest I don't particularly care as digital games are not my thing. I will always buy physical unless a game I like has no publisher and digital is the only choice....or titles that are on sale for games I was on the fence about.
It certainly won't have day 1 exclusives....but Sony could deliver a stunning collection of ongoing PS1,PSP,PS2,PS3 titles and hopefully update them with higher res etc?... Don't hold your breath though
I would like to be able to choose things a la carte. I don’t really want online gaming capability. I want cloud saves and a growing game library, preferably with some first party day 1 access for the smaller titles and delayed access for the big titles, as well as maybe store discounts.
You can keep your online multiplayer function that I’ve been paying for for years and never using.
@BleedingDreamer sweet, keep playing those old as games. the rest of us are moving forward. I still have my ps1, ps2, and ps3, never use them. No interest in playing wipeout or tenchu 2
@Jammsbro about the only games I play on bc or the Fallout 3 or Red Dead Redemption but I have the option if I ever wanted to and that is always better than not having it. I'm ready to move forward when Sony has something I want to play on the PS5. The only thing I've played on it since I got it is Miles Morales hopefully Horizon Forbidden West isn't delayed and I'll have something new in February to play. There hasn't been much to come out new that interests me this gen so being able to revisit old classics has been nice. Hopefully Sony will rectify that with something of their own.
I think I would be happy with PS1/2 and 3.
My only question if we already own plus how would we get it????
@nookie_egg - Yeah, the rewards system is amazing. I tend to cash in points against featured games, usually £25 towards a £55 game which then gets me a further 6000 points for making the purchase. As I said, I cashed in almost £200 last year and have just over 100,000 points currently sat on my account. It's absolutely ridiculous added value to a GP subscription.
I'd like to see retro titles. So many classic PS1 and PS2 games are just sitting there. There were also some of the best licensed and sports games from that era, but seeing those are unlikely.
Nintendo Online is total trash. Minimal work from their side but maximum cost.
Gamepass has always been a race to the bottom. Microsoft is creating a generation of gamer that expects a Netflix of games. Not for me. Give me a damn game on a disc not requiring some sort of online check in. Microsoft instituted DRM just like they wanted a decade ago, and the average gamer ate it up like a starving dog.
Sony has plenty of work to do.
@Shigurui that's awesome. I'm not even on xbox or make purchases (other than the odd pc game pass sub when it's like a quid) and mine just comes from the 2 minutes a day of searching via bing, mounts up quite quickly with the bonus streaks. I think Sony had something similar at one point but it was USA only I believe.
I'm expecting something with tiers. The more you pay the more crap you get. I could care less. I'm quite content with my collection and have most of it backed up as ROMs and some emulators and hardware to play them on.
@Northern_munkey ''i cant work you out at all..'' - so you blame me for it , and label me off as a troll , classic internet logic . maybe ask if you're that interested ?
''you obviously are not happy with sony (seem to love xbox and game pass)'' - based on your perception & lack of thereof .. i give credit where credits due ; especially in the case of consoles , because i'm not a fanboy of any game company (let alone ANY company ) , and have all 3 consoles . although you accusing me of ''loving'' game-pass because i give it credit is extreme , and entirely your thoughts. i mention gamepass whenever its relative to the topic , in which case it is. i criticize the big three all the time - especially the original xbox one and nintendo in general.
''so why are you here exactly?'' - i have a ps1 , ps2 , psp, ps3 , & ps5 , is that good enough , or do i need to show you my collection of sony merch as well ?
''Are you a troll looking for attention?'' - classic internet defamation.
''Or do you just like trying to be controversial?'' - i'm just an honest person giving an honest opinion . im not trying to be ''controversial'' at all . im human and the only thing i try to be is myself .
''If you dont have anything constructive to add'' - constructive to you is..what ? my comment was relatively on-topic and i gave my thoughts about it . is it because its criticism ?
''why not just go back to your corner and leave the rest of us in peace..'' - whose peace here am i disturbing exactly ? you're upset by my opinion and scolding me about it . is the peace a hivemind of oozing praise , and anti-criticism or some sort of protocol in how we express ourselves here (excluding guidelines) ? well im sorry for being me , although i shouldn't have to apologize , because im not the one rebuking someone here. i'm not trying to gas-light this situation either by the way , just being honest.
edit - also i should add this - yeah i said XBL is better than PSN , OBJECTIVELY . but does that mean i prefer it ? no man . i actually prefer PSN and the interface and how things are put together. same way i prefer apple , but believe android is the better smartphone , or how i mentioned in an earlier topic that PC gaming is superior but prefer console. you can have preferences and still be an objective person .
If they provide upscaled or enhanced legacy/retro games like Maximo 1/2 (PS2), Castlevania: Lament of Innocence (PS2), Mickey: Castle of illusion remake (PS3), Earthworm Jim HD (PS3), The Nightmare Before Christmas: Oogie's Revenge (PS2), and similar... Then, I would say: take my money! I pay for Xbox pass mostly because of X360 and X1 enhanced games.
@nomither6 yeah okay..
@Krysus realistically if they could make your old discs work , why would they wait to do it , and not do it now? its because its not happening.
Its also been a while since we've heard about the partnership with sony and ms w/ cloud gaming. I think that has something to do with sony using cloud gaming ( streaming) for older games? maybe.
It’s mainly the press pushing to ‘imitate’ Xbox pretending gamepass or ‘smart’ delivery are wonderful. S that. They maybe cool for Xbox gamers because they have a different approach and love digital gaming and always online. I’m telling you majority of PS gamers don’t want those even if they don’t know it.
The two platforms are different and it’s great. Differences are great. Keep it that way.
I want to be able to play old games on PS4/5. I'm not really fussed about having a catalogue of modern games but appreciate I'm in the minority there.
I also want to be able to stream it. I was going to purchase PSNow but then found out I couldn't play it via RemotePlay so it was an instant no from me. I think that probably means you'd need to download the games to console.
@ScarletSpidey are you using it on pc or mobile ? if pc , psnow has its own native app you can use. also the quality of psnow using remote play would be even worse.
@twitchtvpat I didn't know that but I'm on a Mac. If you could download to console, it'd be the same as any digital game, surely? I do about 40% of my gaming on Remote Play.
@ScarletSpidey ah , im not 100% sure , but i think the psnow app only is for pc , =(.
I don’t know why everyone wants retro ps games? I loved my ps 1 and ps2 but the games are really bad by today’s standards. They are fun to visit but not for long. With the amount of new aaa games coming to PS4/ps5 who has the time to go retro ? I’m not hating I really don’t know who has the time
89.99 should be the price for PS+ for a whole year and 6months of PS Now. If you want to clean up the year with PS Now for the 4 months do it for $14.99.
I just hope they dont pull a Nintendo by taking their sweet time adding old games to the collection.
I wish online would go free like it use to be and I’d drop it all.
All I truly desire is a large and growing catalogue of legacy games and classic PlayStation exclusives.
COD was good at first, then it got stale. Soldier of Fortune 2, Return to Castle Wolfenstein and Quake on PC were better than all the newer garbage.
They’ve got to go full Gamepass in my opinion. 1st party games on release day. Otherwise Xbox is just gonna roll all over them.
I don't think people realise or remember sony original ps now plans was kinda like game pass without new titles day1 obviously mean whole playstation library from ps1,ps2,ps3 but of course it didn't work out we was left with ps now where need good Internet to play older games but Microsoft then made game pass obviously turned out better xbox needed a win from something also everyone not remember sony/ Microsoft deal for steaming thing cant remember 🙄
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