Topic: The Movie Thread

@KALofKRYPTON I'll agree with you on Aliens, although I did enjoy the first film more than I really should, given my usual tastes. Haven't seen Spider-Man 2 in a long while, but I remember thinking Willem Dafoe's snarling, scenery-chewing Green Goblin was a better villain than Alfred Molina's Doc Oc (but then I'm no Marvel expert anyway, and I just like Willem Dafoe, so I wouldn't trust myself there).

What, no The Empire Strikes Back on your list? And surely you'd agree that Superman 2 deserves a nod as well (whichever cut you personally prefer)?

@RogerRoger
I loved Defoe's Goblin, but the film as a whole is well surpassed by Spider-Man 2 - and not in a way that it falls largely under escalation. I find that to be quite important for a good sequel.

ESB is a great sequel, obviously, and for much the same reasons - escalation isn't the sole method or reason for its existence (here's looking at you, most modern sequels).

Superman 2 is... certainly the second part to Superman: The Movie! 🙄

@LN78 New cut of Apocalypse Now?

That passed me by!

@LN78 Wow!

@LN78 Nah, it's interesting. Certainly going to be worth a watch. Very long time since I've seen it.

@LN78 I really hope that new Apocalypse Now re-release doesn't disappoint. This is the bit where I sheepishly admit to never having seen the film, but I know of its reputation and if you're a fan, then this sounds like your dream come true!

As for other Director's Cuts, I don't have a great deal of experience with them. I'll agree that the "Rogue Cut" of X-Men: Days of Future Past didn't add as much as had been hyped; I only have the standard edition in my collection and I'm happy with that, having seen the "Rogue Cut" at a friend's house. Speaking of superhero films, however, the one thing I can say with authority is that the Ultimate Edition extended cut of Batman V Superman: Dawn of Justice is the only way I'll ever re-watch that film, and I'll re-watch it often, as I think it's a masterpiece.

Coming late to a lot of classic franchises, there's a big chance that my first experience of some films has been via an extended cut or Director's Cut. We've been mentioning Aliens and I'm pretty sure I've only ever seen the extended version of that, because it's what would've been included in the Blu-Ray boxset I got and binge-watched one weekend. Also, I fell in love with Star Wars because I saw the 1995 Special Editions at the cinema, so those are the definitive versions of those films for me (and when they've subsequently tweaked them, I've been a teensy bit more opinionated, even though my bottom line will always remain "they belong to Mr. Lucas and if he wants to change things, let him").

Beyond those you've already mentioned, got any recommendations for a novice?

@KALofKRYPTON I agree with you about sequel escalation. In fact, the only thing that really surprised me about your reply was the following quote:

Superman 2 is... certainly the second part to Superman: The Movie! 🙄

It dawns on me that I've never gotten your opinions on the classic Superman flicks. I always thought that Superman 2 was the best one, so please enlighten me!

@LN78 I appreciate the consideration, but don't worry too much; tastes can change, and if there's an important film I've never seen before, I'd rather give it due consideration than no consideration at all. Also don't worry too much because now I feel like I've given you homework!

Besides, my tastes are... let's say "unique" when it comes to things connected with larger franchises I follow. A big part of my opinions are based on childhood nostalgia and personal perspectives / agreement with the filmmakers' intentions. I had zero connection with Terminator 2 when watching it this past weekend, and so I was just able to be impressed with an all-time great and lo, here I am, agreeing with the majority. So it does happen!

PS: You're absolutely right, so they did. I've done that before. For some reason, I've always had it in my brain that the Special Edition re-releases happened before, or at the same time as, pre-production commenced on The Phantom Menace (which was definitely 1995). Cheers!

@RogerRoger Apocalypse Now is a fine war drama. Like so many other classics, though, it has had its reputation puffed up to such a degree that new people who end up watching it are often slightly underwhelmed.

I am embarrassed to say that I made a comment once on an article here for Farming Simulator 19 that I was so put off by the fact that they could have made 19 installments of such a boring premise. @kyleforrester87 had to remind me that it was 2019. 😂
I felt pretty stupid.

@LN78 I recently watched Apocalypse Now for the first time. I posted some thoughts here. (Looks like they start at comment #1955. Geez that was back in April... it seems more recent...) It’s a pain to get back several pages on the forums, but there was a small discussion there of my thoughts. I was quite moved by it, but can’t quite say I “enjoyed” it. I’d be interested what a special director’s cut would contain, because that water buffalo scene was about all I could handle. Very heavy stuff.

@Th3solution it’s what I’m here for!

As for Apocalypse Now, I’ve seen various versions of it, 4 times altogether and it really doesn’t do much for me..

Lots of people love it though, I’m sure i’ll see it again one day and it’ll click. I didn’t like Blade Runner until my third viewing

@kyleforrester87 I was the opposite with Bladerunner, enjoyed it the first few times I saw it but the series of different cuts to film has blunted my enjoyment of the film.

@LN78 Yes and I think I mentioned it before during the discussion but the movie does beg one to research it and ponder it after watching. In my reading about the filming of that scene, it was a remarkable story in and of itself and if I recall correctly the natives in the Philippines where they were shooting just so happened to be having a ritual sacrifice and Coppola was allowed to capture it on film and integrate it into the movie. There’s no way that scene could be shot in the West with the animal rights presence. At least not now. Not sure about in the 80’s or whenever it was shot
The backstory of the movie is nearly as interesting as the movie itself.

@RogerRoger Well. Superman: The Movie is firmly within my top three favourite films if all time (along with Stand By Me and Robocop).
It's was as much a part of every bit of my childhood as any formative experience could be; and still for my money one of the best films ever made for Reeve's performance alone, not to mention the incredible supporting cast, insane production values, cinematography, direction and of course - the music.

I like the Superman II, it was also a perennial bit of media in our house and despite it's many flaws, there are plenty of scenes in Richard Lester's largely reshot film (his opening especially) that I prefer over what Donner did and wanted. I appreciate the Donner Cut and would've loved to see the original vision of the first film's ending and the sequel all done as Donner would've liked at the time.

But....

While much of (both versions) Superman II is really quite wonderful, even as a kid I couldn't reconcile the Superman we were presented with, with a man so ready to give up his powers (or why he should have to) and 'mission' for a now apparently rather terribly shallow Lois Lane. I really, really detest it as a bit of storytelling. You could cut it easily. So yeah. It's a messier film in all versions and a fully serviceable second part of the same story (1 & 2 were originally shot back to back, after Donner was fired and Richard Lester stepped in, he was required to reshoot at least 50% of the film to get a director credit and save the producers from having to pay Donner).

I'm not sure how aware you are of the behind the scenes drama surrounding Superman: The Movie and Superman II, but it's pretty interesting and unscrupulous stuff.

I love Superman III! I'll concede that it's not the greatest of films - but it is a great Superman film. Reeve was in the shape of his life, Annette O'Tool is fantastic and while not his finest hour Richard Pryor is great too. The corrupted Superman vs Clark Kent fight scared me more than any creature feature or horror film I'd managed to watch as a kid 😁

Superman IV is a well documented shame. I for one appreciate Reeve's intention. I think the story is actually pretty solid and of course, topical for the times. The film rights changing hands and ending up in the death-grip of Cannon films was all that was needed to deliver a horribly under-financed mess.
Given the money and care of Superman: The Movie, I think 4 would be far more fondly remembered.

And of course, there's Supergirl, which I'd love to hate, but don't. Casting was spot on in Helen Slater, the story set up doesn't suck, but again - tiny budget and they couldn't get Reeve on board in time. Also, it has Peter Cook AND Peter O'Tool in it!

@Th3solution @LN78 @kyleforrester87 what's the general consensus on Oliver stones Vietnam stuff? I found Platoon and Born on the 4th of July bleak but very powerful, thinking about them for days and weeks (in the case of Platoon) later.

I'm not a huge fan of Apocalypse now, the imagery is top notch but I really didn't like the story at all. I found Platoon to be a more grounded and real film, something you can definitely see happening when led by people who dislike or are in a power play with each other. Something I have witnessed first hand and when the leaders have personality defects it can really disable the team below them. I think Platoon details that better than most War films.

Jar head is also a good war film. It hasn't stayed with me like Platoon but the stuff were his oppos are splitting up with there partners back home is something very real in the armed forces. Although it never happened to me I've seen blokes reduced to tears, unable to work due to the conflict and stress going on in their lives. As you are on duty, the stuff everyday civilians have a chance to put right just isn't an option. You have to fulfill your obligations before being relieved of your role - something which doesn't always come to pass when you expect. And back home it's gone to pot.

@KALofKRYPTON @RogerRoger Superman 2 is my favourite superhero film of all time. The part were Zod is at the Daily Planet. Going nuts, grabbing Geme Hackman by the neck. Then superman turns up. 'General Zod, would you care to step outside?' absolutely amazing. I think I like the way the bullies just do what they want and the 3 baddies are well cast. Then Superman comes back. As one bystander puts it 'this is gonna be good'.

That said the best line is in Superman 3 with the Kent vs Supes fight you refer to. 'you've always wanted to fly Kent - then knows your chance'. I've watched that fight loads of times. And once it's all over Kent rips open his shirt to reveal his superman logo and the theme tune plays. Fantastic.

@themcnoisy hmm I’ve seen Platoon at least once (but perhaps not quite twice) but I can’t really recall much of it so it couldn’t have left a huge impression. I’m not that big on war movies I suppose, I like Full Metal Jacket and I have a soft spot for Enemy at the Gates (although I understand a lot of people say it’s not a very good film lol). Hurt Locker was alright. More recently I saw and enjoyed Dunkirk and Fury but by and large it’s not a genre I’m that into...

I do occasionally find myself watching and getting into a random old black and white war movie though. I saw and enjoyed the original Dunkirk with Richard Attenborough a few years ago. I really need to watch Dambusters don’t I.

I heard Hacksaw Ridge is worth a watch.

And Saving Private Ryan is absolute tosh.

@themcnoisy
I do really love Superman III! Him getting tanked on Johnnie Walker red and smashing the back bar up... What would you even do?! 😂😂

@LN78 Ooops... I misspoke earlier and said Scorsese when I meant Coppola. For some reason I get those guys mixed up. That, and Martin Sheen had me thinking “Martin.” I have corrected my previous post for future generations to be free of the misinformation 😄
Anyways, I did not know many of those details. Very interesting.
I did rather enjoy seeing a young Harrison Ford in the film, even if it was a small role.

@Ralizah That tends to be my take on most "big name films" I come late to. I recall @Th3solution posting his thoughts on Apocalypse Now earlier in the year (wait... in April...?! Holy mackerel, where has this year gone?) and was on the fence at the time, if I recall. I was glad when he warned me about the animal abuse, because that's one of my red lines anyway, so I'd have instantly hated the entire film had I gotten around to giving it a look-see.

As this page of replies is proving, though, I think a lot of film fans are drawn to projects which have interesting development details and behind-the-scenes tidbits. Despite having never seen the film itself, I'm aware of some of the production stories being outlined (and others I'd never heard before don't surprise me) and so watching with that knowledge, watching the actors and not their performances, would be very different to just watching for the sake of a couple hours' escapism. Whether that's as responsible for its reputation as the actual quality of the final product is only something each individual watching can answer, I suppose.

That's not to belittle or undermine the opinion of anybody who genuinely adores the picture, or any similar picture, by the way. Pre-emptive apologies if I'm coming across that way.

@KALofKRYPTON Seems like all of today's posts are variations on a theme! As yeah, I'd heard a little about the behind-the-scenes shenanigans on those first couple Superman flicks. I wanna say the name "Salkind" at this point, and you'll hopefully know what I mean? And of course, we've all heard about the production woes of Superman IV: The Quest for Peace... heck, you don't have to hear them, you can see them in every frame of that nightmare.

But whilst I'd likely say from memory that I prefer Superman II overall (with fond memories of everything @themcnoisy is listing up there), I do understand where you're coming from with your objection on a single plot point, especially one that drags such an iconic character down alternate paths (which takes great care to pull off). Given that my background knowledge of Superman is limited to a childhood spent watching Lois & Clark, I guess it didn't strike me as much as it did you, but I will admit to thinking of it a bit of Hollywood sap... which I'm not necessarily against, but then I was viewing Superman as a Hollywood character and not as a comic book legend.

I've got them all on Blu-Ray and should really give them another pass at some stage. I did know that we agree on Superman III being a nice piece of fluff. Shame it couldn't be good ol' Lex Luthor in the villain's seat, but Napoleon Solo is a welcome consolation prize.

@RogerRoger Yep, the Salkinds, and with them Pierre Spengler. Absolute wrong 'uns!

If you have time, have a look for Ilya Salkind's original treatment for Superman III. It's absolutely bonkers! 😂