Great review @Ralizah and nice screenshots! It really is gorgeous. I'm really glad you enjoyed it so much. How much did you play with your nephew? It's arguably one of the best Japanese RPGs ever made; absolutely bursting with character, creativity and humour, yet beneath all that its core gameplay foundations are fundamentally solid. Intelligent Systems absolutely nailed it. The backtracking is a problem, but I didn't mind too much blat the time because the environments are so visually appealing.
It's such a shame that the series is now very much treated as B-tier schedule filler when it should have remained Nintendo's top RPG franchise. Super Paper Mario is decent and many fans do like the story, but other than a few nice gameplay ideas I found it somewhat bland overall. It was apparently originally intended to be a spinoff for the GameCube, but the system's quick death led to it being moved over to the Wii.
@mookysam It's funny: didn't Nintendo say something about not needing two Mario RPG series? Well, the developer of the Mario and Luigi games is out of business now, which makes me wonder if they'll change their approach to Paper Mario over time. Or maybe they'll continue relying on the increasingly successful Xenoblade Chronicles games as their marquee first-party RPG franchise, although you'd think they'd see the appeal of continuing Mario-themed RPGs.
I don't know that their view of the series' importance has shifted, though. It'd be easy enough to churn out half-hearted Paper Mario JRPGs on the regular. They're experimenting and mixing up elements of the series, and are doubling down on stuff that fans clearly don't want, which makes me think Nintendo doesn't understand the appeal of the series at all. Well, I can't speak for the newest game, but I feel like Nintendo is trying to pull in bigger numbers by making the series more 'approachable,' in their minds, to newcomers. As I recall, Sticker Star did very well.
I remember reading that Nintendo decided against focusing on narrative elements in this series after conducting some sort of polling and discovering that almost nobody who responded cared about the story in Super Paper Mario
@Foxy-Goddess-Scotchy Thanks. I've actually noticed that, in a lot of older Nintendo games, the music is... passable at best. Most of their best soundtracks have been in games released since the start of the Wii era, IMO.
And yeah, it's a uniquely difficult Nintendo game to find. Paper Mario N64, Super Paper Mario, and Paper Mario: Color Splash are all playable on Wii U. And a few of their GameCube-era games like Twilight Princess, The Wind Waker, the first two Metroid Prime games, Resident Evil 4, etc. were made playable on later systems as well. But TTYD was never re-released, and second-hand copies are expensive, to say the least. Granted, one could fairly easily... erm... sail the high seas and experience it that way, but I get the desire to play games on their native hardware. It looked great on my CRT set.
Good fun, though. I obviously wouldn't put it up against the best Square Enix or Atlus JRPGs, but it's hard to imagine someone playing it and walking away unsatisfied.
@Ralizah You’re definitely right about TTYD being expensive, I’ve been trying to decide whether or not to sell my copy of a few of my Cube games. They seem to have just shot up in price, TTYD, Path of Radiance, Pokemon XD and Skies of Arcadia Legends can fetch up to £100 now. I disagree with you about Nintendo’s soundtracks being better since the Wii era though, imo they peaked in the N64 and Cube days. Zelda OoT, MM and WW all had great soundtracks and there’s a few tunes off TP that I really loved too. Mario 64 is fantastic, I think we probably take the music for granted because it’s just so iconic. Now that you mention it though, I actually do get what you mean to be honest, I don’t think any of my favourite OSTs are from Ninty first party games. My favourite tracks ever probably are though, I love OoT’s title theme, Dire Dire Docks from Mario 64 and Stickerbush Symphony from DKC2.
@nessisonett Some of it might be the improving technology allowing for richer soundscapes (I'm especially fond of the games where Nintendo employs a full blown orchestra), but, if we're just talking their Mario games (I think it applies to most of the games they internally publish, though), the music in a lot of their more recent games is more complex and sounds more like... actual music. Stuff I'd listen to for enjoyment. Which isn't to say that they haven't obviously created very iconic tunes in the past, or the occasional beautiful track (actually just listened to Dire Dire Docks recently, and it is, indeed, a beautiful track), but it's mostly very basic. That isn't the case for other companies. I'd say, for example, that most of Square-Enix's best soundtracks were in older games of theirs (mostly; I really liked the music in FF7R, although so much of that is grounded in the original game's melodies that, more than anything, it just showcases how amazing FF7's OST was). Many older companies had games with amazing chiptune soundtracks, and their more modern games can't really measure up in the sound department.
Matter of opinion, I guess. Maybe some of it goes to how I didn't really grow up with Nintendo beyond the NES (I was primarily a Sega and Sony kid, and I loved my PS1, PS2, Genesis, Dreamcast, etc.), and so I really have no nostalgia for their older soundtracks. I can think of quite a few Wii-era and beyond Nintendo games where I genuinely adore the soundtrack, but I struggle to do the same for almost anything older developed by them.
@Ralizah Yeah, I’m not a massive fan of the orchestra stuff outside Galaxy’s OST and even then, I prefer the tracks that are quite mellow like the Space Junk Galaxy and Freezeburn Galaxy. Odyssey did have some great tracks but I dunno, I really like the N64’s sound font and I think Sunshine also had catchier tunes that totally suited the setting.
@Thrillho Man, lots of love for SPM around here. I'm definitely going to be playing that game sooner than later.
Interestingly, the new PM game is going back to the concept of performing in front of an audience (at least aesthetically; I don't know if it'll be mechanically integrated into the gameplay like it was in TTYD), although the stage looks more like something from a Greek open air theater as opposed to the more familiar enclosed theater in TTYD.
Currently Playing: Resident Evil Village: Gold Edition
@Ralizah The Wii is the only Ninetendo console I’ve owned (other than the Game Boy) so that will partly be why it’s the only one I’ll mention. From what I remember, the combat sticks to just bouncing off heads rather than turn based but they certainly make the most of it.
@Foxy-Goddess-Scotchy
Interesting review, thanks for sharing! Characters and plot are important factors in a game like this for me, they make a huge difference. So I'll probably give it a pass going on what you've said, a shame as the whole exploring by motorcycle thing does look pretty cool.
The "lack of a personality" you mentioned when talking about the game is the biggest strike against it for me, I think. The trailer and footage don't make it look bad at all, but it feels very... generic. It feels like the game you might end up getting if you fed a neural network a bunch of plot synopses of Western AAA games and TV shows and told it to spit out an original idea based on these inputs.
It's good to hear that it mostly holds up on the gameplay front, though, even if the story and characters aren't great.
I'm actually not put off by the idea of the game having an unlikable main character, but I'm guessing it just ends with Deacon being unlikable, right? There's no interesting character development or surprising plot twists, by the sound of it.
Also, it's not fair at all, but Deacon St. Backwards Baseball Cap's design just rubs me the wrong way. He looks like every douchey guy I've ever met in the rural American South.
There are a number of side missions peppered throughout the story that involve Deek heading out to Sarah's memorial to let him simply talk to her gravestone and you do get hints through the story that she's probably the only good thing that ever happened to Deek throughout his miserable little life (baring his friendship with Boozer).
I'm never sure how the topic will go over on these boards, since it's quite touchy, even for old, out-of-print games that absolutely nobody stands to lose any money from.
And those musical tracks are so good Ralizah! The World Bowser track from 3D World in particular made me smile (I love how Jazzy that and Hisstocrat are)
The Super Mario Galaxy 2 track was rather pleasant too!
The jazzy music in 3D World is awesome. And I love how bombastic the orchestral music is in both Galaxy games. In general, when I think of Nintendo soundtracks I love, they're almost all at least semi-modern.
Though now to awkwardly segway to your Animal Crossing review from the previous page...
... What a review!
There's just something about games that are so open ended and essentially telling you to just make your own fun and faff about that... just don't sadly work for me no matter how cutesy and adorable it may look 😅
Some really lovely screenshots and as always you're ever the wordsmith Ral!
Thanks! I don't mean to be as long-winded as I am, honest. I really wanted to go into my feelings about the changed game mechanics, though, and this was the perfect thread to do it in.
As ever, I appreciate y'all taking the time to read my very "tl;dr"-tier posts.
I'm really looking forward to hearing how you ended up feeling about the original Danganronpa.
@Thrillho I've noticed a lot of praise in general for the story in that game, though. Not just from you. SPM seems to be evidence that Paper Mario games don't need to be JRPGs to be good, which is why I'm holding out hope for the new one.
@Foxy-Goddess-Scotchy Great review and I was thinking of picking it up if it bag ors cheaper in the day’s of play sale tomorrow. That said, story is king for me and I have been spoilt with Sony and other third party open world stories of late. I may give it a whirl but will possibly be more cautious.
Now I may be an idiot, but there's one thing I am not sir, and that sir, is an idiot
I quite liked Deacon from about the mid way point, when he becomes less of a jerk and actually alright. Story I thought was decent to good. There's not much originality plot wise, but I was interested enough to want to see the end. It's far from the worst video game plot I've seen in recent months. Gameplay is king though.
@Foxy-Goddess-Scotchy Well I have taken a punt as saw it for £14.99 physical in the sale today but I have a feeling it may stay on the backlog for some time.
Now I may be an idiot, but there's one thing I am not sir, and that sir, is an idiot
@Ralizah Poor Alpha Dream. 😢 I think Nintendo said something like that around Sticker Star's release as they wanted the Mario and Luigi series to be distinct. Fair enough, I guess, but that seemingly extended to story, characters, writing. Basically aything that fans of TTYD and even Super Paper Mario would have stuck around for. I definitely need to see more of The Origami King before deciding on a purchase!
Obviously Nintendo isn't known for their RPGs in the way Square-Enix are, but their resistance to having multiple RPG series on the go is a little strange. It's not just Paper Mario that has suffered, either. One franchise I would particularly love to see return is Baten Kaitos. I guess we've also seen the same thing with Nintendo's Tactical RPGs and the doubling down on Fire Emblem. A lot of that is sheer economics, but it's definitely limited the first party catalogue.
With the narrative elements I wonder if Game Freak came to the same conclusion after Black and White, because the stories in every Pokémon game since have been dreadful. Aside from battle systems and stat building, narrative is the single most important aspect of an RPG.
Excellent Days Gone review @Foxy-Goddess-Scotchy! The bike does look great and I'm impressed with how pretty the game looks. That aside I'm actually not sure how much I'd enjoy the game as I think the story elements might irritate me. It being bland isn't an automatic strike necessarily, but when there are so many other games it's not exactly standing out. Looking forward to your Divinity Original Sin review (complete with lots of talking animal screenshots).
TTYD, like most RPGs, takes an hour or so to really get going. Although I found it far more immediately engaging than the N64 Paper Mario, which begins like... every other Mario game in existence! The turn-based battling is fairly accessible and rudimentary, I think. I imagine, for a lot of people, the addition to timed button inputs will help people feel like they're active participants and less like they're just browsing through menus.
RE: Mario Odyssey, how far did you get? It took me a weirdly long time to really get into that game. When I initially beat the story campaign, I felt oddly... empty. Totally unlike the magical experience I had with Super Mario Galaxy. The amount and quality of post-game content is pretty stunning, though, and after having played 30+ hours past the initial credits, I'd probably consider it one of the best 3D Mario games (behind Galaxy and Sunshine, anyway). For whatever reason, Nintendo decided to hide the best Kingdom and the most engaging challenges until after the credits. The bump up in difficulty in those post-game Kingdoms is significant, and really tested my mastery of the game, which I think is what I really needed to truly appreciate the complex set of platforming movements Mario has access to in this game.
RE: fondue, I actually had some for my birthday a few weeks ago! My family usually takes me out to a restaurant to celebrate, but with things being... how they are... they decided to just make a fondue with dough-rolled sausages to dunk, and it turned out great.
Currently Playing: Resident Evil Village: Gold Edition
You unlock the Mushroom Kingdom, which is set around Princess Peach's castle in the style of Super Mario 64, almost immediately after beating the so-called "final boss" (there's so much stuff to do after beating Bowser that it barely feels like a mid-game speedbump now). It's a very pretty and fun kingdom that's filled with great secrets.
Additionally, you can unlock The Dark Side of the Moon and The Darker Side of the Moon, both of which feature some of the hardest challenges in the game.
Almost every previous kingdom in the game also enjoys a massive infusion of content via new challenges and new moons to find.
I'm not sure how accessible this new content would be. I think it'd depend on how long it takes your muscle memory to return, how much you struggle with platforming in general, and how difficult you found the content in the main game campaign.
For me, someone who craves challenge and variety, it was a godsend. I do think Odyssey is probably one of the most difficult Mario games to 100%, but it's quite fun, and none of the challenges are stupidly infuriating for the wrong reasons like the Lily Pad/Pachinko levels in Super Mario Sunshine.
Currently Playing: Resident Evil Village: Gold Edition
@Ralizah Oh lord, I have so many awful memories of pachinko and the lily pads. I do think Odyssey’s jump rope and volleyball were truly annoying as well though!
Mario Odyssey is excellent, but is a little bloated at times. I still dip into it now and then for little replays simply because it makes me smile. The "story" moons are rather excellent and New Donk City is an absolute marvel. I hope that future games incorporate more urban levels.
Seeing the Super Mario 64 Mushroom Kingdom in HD glory was pretty amazing @Ralizah. It made me so giddy with nostalgia! I wasn't expecting it to be in the game at all.
@nessisonett Ugh jump rope drove me up the wall. Not sure what Nintendo were thinking with that one.
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