Topic: Nintendo Switch --OT--

@KratosMD Out of all the units sold so far, how many individual cases of bending screens have there been?

Now work that out as a percentage. Cause for concern? I think not sadly. Especially as this happens to all devices of this form factor. Its a nature of heat flexing. Hell, it happens even to consoles. Flexing due to heat was what caused the red ring of death! The benefit here is, phones and tablets, and the Switch, as well as later revisions of the Xbox 360, have a plate installed to maintain shape. It heats up, flex. It cools down, it resets. Simple stuff.

And I don't know if its literally been all over the news. Ive yet to see it on the BBC so...

And I think @Ralizah put it best. Remember the PS4 has no games launch and how long that persisted? People want any reason to feel big, and Nintendo is a very easy punching bag. In fact, if the narrative isn't "No games", which will be tossed around for years to come, its "Too many games and its oversaturated".

Furthermore, another narrative around Switch that will never die is that they undersupply if sold out, but that no one is buying it if one is a shelf for more than a day and its doomed. Or even funnier, the "We need to wait and see before we can establish how its doing". I can tell you now that that little line wont disappear even 3 or 4 years in because itll still be too early and sales "can drop off any day now".

@KratosMD This does seem concerning, it's all well and good for people to say "people are using Nintendo as a punching bag" like a major corporation needs forum defenders. The fact is when people pay good money for a product they have the right to expect that product to be in full working order over a long period of use, let alone less then one year.

@KratosMD Im saying its not widespread. If it was 3% of systems? 1% sure? Then itd be a problem. But its not. Its 10s, maybe hundreds. Realistically how much is that in the grand scheme of things now with this issue?

As for the joycon issue, fixed. That variance has been resolved in production.

The odds of something being technically wrong with your system upon purchase is very slim. Does a bend damage functionality? Nope. But it happens.

It happens and its not widespread. Remember one report shared hundreds of times can seem like hundreds of cases and in the small scale it can seem like a device ending issue until you zoom out a bit and see the rest of the units sold.

And can you guarantee that if I buy another PS4 right now it will be flawless?

@KratosMD Can you confirm to me that same number?

Here is the thing. All we have are accounts. And then they stopped. Then they came up again briefly and save for one or two posts....nothing.

See the thing is, you cant prove its a statistically significant number of units affected to be a concern, or even if bending is a long term issue at all, and I cant disprove it. Therefore, what is the point of the argument?

Until hard numbers come out the paranoia isnt just. I assume you were also freaking out when reports of other systems having issues where rampant at their launches?

And the PS4 by build size cant bend. But can you guarantee there will be no hardware issues? No slipped HDD spinner? No disc drive damage? All of the ports in order? That the controller is fully functional?

Not at all. Just trying to curb the hyperbole a little bit. If you investigate most of the articles being referred to when people talk about "bent Switches," they usually refer to the same small group of reports online. That's not to say it's not happening to some people, but that it's not uncommon for people online to act like a statistically insignificant phenomenon is some major manufacturing crisis. The closest thing the Switch has had to one of those is the joycon thing, and I don't think we ever got any solid numbers on how many units that was actually affecting.

I can't guarantee that your Switch won't have any issues any more than I can guarantee your PS4 won't have issues. That's the reality of mass-production. ESPECIALLY during the launch year.

http://wccftech.com/top-5-reported-technical-playstation-4-is...

http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/11/22/xbox-one-early-adopter...

You were just as likely, if not moreso, to get a PS4 or Xbox One with issues in their launch years. It's part of the "early adopter" equation. Small manufacturing issues are ironed out over time for every major system.

@BLP_Software Right you can even say the Wii U was a prototype of the Switch, which means that I am sure plenty of ideas and such were being developed during the Wii Us development time as well.

@KratosMD Ok man you said your piece and @BLP_Software said his let's drop this now and agree to disagree as the saying goes. The point is now hardware is flawless and every hardware be it Nintendo, Sony Microsoft, Apple or whatever has a percentage of failure rate look at the launch Xbox 360 and PS3 for example.

The reason people are making a big deal about the Switch is because it's Nintendo and anything negative Nintendo the Sony and MS fanboys jump on it, which quite frankly it looks like you are doing exactly that.

Anyway I think we are done here now.

@KratosMD Im not denying they exist. Like @Ralizah said it is to curb the hyperbole as stated this happens to every system at launch. But if you look its a handful of reports over and over. There is no denying it exists but there is reason to believe its not as huge a deal as you want it to be.

Im saying it happens. Im saying take caution. But it is not something to be concerned or hesitant over. Now if it had a chance to explode in your hand, then hesitate. But as is? Its part of mass production. Its variance early on that is ironed out and if you dont like that well tough because this is how the tech world works. It wont be perfect from the start and you dont have to be early if its not skmething you are ok with but its also not the end of the world.

@Tasuki It honestly wouldnt shock me. In 2013 the tech for Switch simply wasnt possible. And its come leaps and bounds in such short time. Wii U was the next best thing possible at the time.

@KratosMD Last post on the issue, but one thing to keep in mind: social media is bigger and more people are networked than ever before. It's probably worth considering that more problems are being reported because more people are posting about it.

It reminds me of Americans who say that "the world is getting more violent," even though, at least in America, violent crime is generally decreasing over time. The thing is that, with more and more news sources reporting on things, people hear more and more about this world's ugliness, and thus feel like the world is becoming less safe when, if anything, it's becoming much safer than it was in the past. The availability heuristic is a powerful thing.

Anyway, putting off a purchase to avoid launch issues seems like a sensible decision, and is probably one I would have made if I didn't love the system's design so much.

@BLP_Software Exactly, that's how it felt to me once I saw the Switch. I mean nothing against the Wii U it was a great piece of hardware it's just a shame no one would support it but once the Switch was revealed it was pretty clear that the idea for Switch was born with the Wii U.

@Tasuki I have to disagree. While off-tv play was one of the gimmicks the Wii U was known for, Nintendo was heavily promoting the ways its GamePad would enhance traditional TV gaming. It's pretty clear to me that Nintendo always intended to be the Wii U to be a home console, as opposed to a gimped Switch. They just didn't know what to do with the GamePad half the time.

Off-TV play was one of the more popular features of the Wii U, and Nintendo was finding that they couldn't support two platforms at once anymore, so the Switch concept really was the only card they had left if they didn't want to abandon home console game development altogether. Thankfully, the concept appears to have resonated with other people as much as it did with me.

@Ralizah Its resonated perhaps a little too well.

Trolls everywhere, and patent lawsuits - A sign of success. I mean Nintendo will be ragged on for all time as @Tasuki said because cmon, that's how it works in this industry, and I don't know what it will take to change that perception, if at all.

I try not to look at the Wii U as a proto-Switch and more of its own thing. It was most definitely a first whack at the concept in great earnest, and that "Free from the TV" mentality though.

@BLP_Software I love that the system succeeded even though so many so-called "hardcore gamers" were prepared to write it off. And yet, unlike the Wii, I feel like this isn't a system that will alienate core gamers: if anything, it seems like a lot of people are gradually being convinced of the useful of hardware versatility when they actually get a chance to use it. A lot of people still don't seem to be able to grok the hybrid concept, though. Have you noticed? They are so used to the handheld/console divide that they're struggling to make sense of a system that is simultaneously both and neither.

@Ralizah Humanity is always going to want to put things into neat little boxes, but at the same time, don't want any new boxes to use.

But the people unable to grasp will never understand without first being willing. You don't come away accepting if you approach solely with your mind made up. Hell, even I was feeling down on the system pre-launch!

@Ralizah Personally, I think the Switch is a console that should appeal to core gamers the most. It offers flexibility and innovation but can comfortably sit alongside other platforms. I know several PC and Sony/MS owners who have got the Switch as well. I know lots don't but I think real gamers don't really care about platforms other than what they offer to them and their tastes.

@Rudy_Manchego I don't know that the Switch is necessarily biggest appeal is to 'Core' gamers. That's not to say that core gamers won't find it appealing but the largest audience is more likely to come from the more casual gamer. I think it has that 'broad' appeal that the Wii had and the same appeal to those people that jumped into the Pokemon Go - many of those would not consider themselves gamers but saw the Wii Sports and Fitness as something that could be played by people who wouldn't otherwise turn to a console. The Wii for example was found in Old Peoples homes to encourage them to play 'sports' or do exercise - not places you would have seen a PS3/XB360.

Again, I am not saying it doesn't appeal to core gamers but I can see the majority of its owners being from the more casual gaming market and I do agree that it can comfortably sit alongside other gaming device. It also though appeals to those who may not have the time to sit and play a PS4/XB1/PC because they are on the go a lot and this gives them the opportunity to game in the times they are travelling or want/have a quick break. I really do think that the majority will be those people that probably don't have an alternative gaming device and the more 'casual' gamer.

I do agree that 'real' gamers don't really care who makes that 'block' of plastic and electronics - its just a 'device' that enables then to access the games they want to play. Each has its own unique games and goals and can offer 'something' different. I do think that MS are more 'generic' in that the games are not that different from games that can be found on the other systems (especially on XB1) - not to say that they are 'bad' but you can replace Forza with PC or GT, Halo is just another FPS and there are lots of alternatives, Gears is a great 3rd Person Shooter... I know that Halo and Gears can be 'difficult' to find a direct substitute but its not like you can't find any. Sony's Exclusive games are more unique and of course they have a big 'Japanese' library too. There is of course a differing attitude to the past between these two with MS seemingly more keen to preserve the history of games where as Sony are more interested in the present and what technology can do. By that I mean that MS are more keen to keep games alive and as they were where as Sony will be more keen to bring those games forward and updated to be more 'present day'. Nintendo are doing what Nintendo have always done.

I have never bought a console 'just' because its a Playstation or Xbox, whether its a Nintendo or Sega but bought these because of the games. I know that owning both an Xbox ans PS that the majority of games will be 'common' to both and that I 'could' just own 1 and over the life of that console, miss out on perhaps 10-20 games that I would want to play because the majority of games I buy are common to both. However, I couldn't pick one or the other as both have Pro's and Con's and as a 'gamer' I wouldn't be happy to miss out on the exclusives and 'benefits' that each offers.

In an ideal world, I would want a console that can play 'every' game - whether its from Sony, MS or Nintendo. Pretty much like buying a Bluray player that can play discs from Universal, Paramount etc. If Sony, MS and Nintendo each made their 'own' console (like LG, Samsung etc make their own Bluray players), I would buy the one that delivered the best gaming performance across all (or at least the majority) of games - not the one that has a 'specific' brand on it just because of that name. I have no 'brand' loyalty at all and if that 'situation' ever did arise, I wouldn't hesitate to buy the 'best' if it was made by a brand like HP, Dell, Samsung, Apple etc - the priority will be how it handles games.

For me, Nintendo's Switch has minimal appeal. I don't game on the go so that feature doesn't interest me at all. I wouldn't mind playing Zelda but I am not willing to spend on buying both the console and game - and probably the Pro controller too (I wasn't prepared to spend on the Vita for Uncharted, Killzone and Resistance either so its not unusual for me) just to play that. Mario Kart and Mario Odyssey don't appeal that much to me and I have much better consoles to play games like Wolfenstein, Doom, Skyrim and Fifa (if Fifa actually appealed) so unless the Switch has a big enough library of games I want to play to justify spending that much, I will remain without.

I still think its incredible what Nintendo has achieved - especially when you see the size of its motherboard but it doesn't have enough of a reason for me to buy. I still think though that its appeal is much broader than Sony and MS consoles and its that broad appeal that makes me think that the Switches biggest audience will be among the more 'casual' but that doesn't mean to say that it has no or even limited appeal to 'core' gamers - just that the size of the casual market is so much larger in number and therefore will be the bigger audience.

@BAMozzy Obviously the casual sector is the biggest market - I mean, we see that in the sales chart. It isn't people like us on Push Square buying Fifa and GTA V every single week so if it sparks interest there, that will be the biggest demographic. I'd gently disagree with you a little on the point about the Switch and core gamers. Most friends and work colleagues are PC master race types who are often indignant about having to play consoles for exclusives but I know quite a few who like the idea of the Switch more than say, getting another console like PS4 or XB1 because it offers something different.

You are absolutely right that the Wii sold bucket loads and the majority of purchasers were either, I suppose, casuals or those who don't normally game. In my opinion, the Wii was held in contempt by significant numbers in the core gaming community who thought a lot of games on the console were just faddish or not optimal. If they did own the console, they were doing it for the Wii sports experience, not as a core gaming console. I think very few remember it as their favourite console and motion controls were shunned by a lot of gamers. I mean, the Wii was given away as a gift at the Carphone Warehouse when my wife got a phone upgrade - that's how I got mine.

The Wii U on the other hand, never really made it past the Nintendo fanbase who supported the console. It didn't really appeal to a lot of core gamers or a mass audience.

All anecdotal of course but I don't see that with the Switch. It feels like a return to pre-Wii era Nintendo in a lot of ways and the form factor makes sense. As said, I know several PC gamers who look down their nose at consoles who have bought a Switch or want to get one because they like the idea of playing games on the move or just dropping it in the dock when they want to have a bash on MK or something. It could also be a little bit of nostalgia, I think Nintendo have done very well over the last year to remind people they exist and that people have a soft spot for them and their games.

I personally think, and I could be totally wrong, that a lot of gamers are going to double dip and get this as a complimentary system to their PC, XB, PS4 etc. in a way they didnt with the Wii U or even, say, the 3DS. I also think you are right about the casual market - I think this has the opportunity to sell big and appeal in the same way the Wii did (probably not those numbers). My point is that I could see this hitting both demographics.

@Rudy_Manchego Anecdotal evidence too, but I see a lot more ''gamers'' interested in the Switch than casual gamers. One of my friends, and although he isn't the ''no 60fps/no 4K, no buy'' type of guy, he's willing to spend a few thousands on a computer rig, and he got the Switch before I did. It's different from the Wii. Especially since it's more of a handheld, it feels a lot more like a personal system than a ''family'' system. So I don't expect a lot of clueless moms and dads buying the Switch for their family like they did with the Wii.

@Octane Yeah, that is my experience too - one of my work colleagues has just spent like £700 or something on a graphics card but he also bought a Switch at launch because he likes Zelda and sitting with his GF on the couch playing.

I think it will crossover into the causal market but it will not be like the Wii. I still think that was lightening in a bottle - it was relatively cheap and affordable and got everyone in the room involved. I think most Wii's ended up gathering dust once the hype was over.

I can see the Switch being more popular with people who like to game but can't always use the TV or want to sit in bed and play some fun games. I think the whole MP thing is cool but I don't see that as the Switch's strength. I can see Mom and Dads buying the Switch to shut kids up or keep them in the room rather than shut in their room. Time will tell though, I have no data to back up that one!

I do think that the 'core' gamers are more likely to view this as a 'Handheld' and a big step up from any other Handheld on the market - something that can feed their passion when access to a TV/monitor may not be possible. Its that 'handheld' option though that is the biggest draw - mainly because if they want or have the opportunity to play Fifa/Skyrim etc on a 'big' screen, then they are more likely to play on the PS4/XB1/PC. That's not to say they might still play on a 'big screen' sometimes but its that portable aspect that appeals as you can't exactly play the others when TV/Monitor access is difficult or impossible. I can see parents buying the Switch because its versatile - a device the kids can play in the car or if their parents want to watch TV. Essentially buying it because its 'better' than the 3DS/Vita.

But I still see it as having a greater appeal to the casual/non-gamer - much like the Wii did. Maybe not to some sectors - like the 'elderly' or fitness fans who liked the appeal of Wii sports to compliment their lifestyle and/or improve their mobility. I think the Wii also had some appeal to core gamers - the unique motion control adding something to games like Monkey Ball as well as Mario Kart. Its not as if many gamers didn't grow up with Mario and Sonic and the Wii still had some great nostalgic games. I do feel though that when Sony and MS came out with their Motion based peripherals, that heralded the 'end' of the Wii and its 'unique' offerings. The motion based games though struggled to be anything more than 'casual/party/fitness' and showed its limitations too.

The WiiU didn't have that 'broad appeal' to non-gamers and the more casual market. I wouldn't be surprised if its biggest users were gamers that also owned another console. Because it wasn't unique and lacked power, the 3rd party games that were ported, were generally 'older' games that people had played on their other devices. Without having something 'uniquely different' - like the WiiU's motion or the Switches portability, it didn't give the owners much reason to double dip with these games which in turn put publishers off from porting other games only for those to not sell particularly well to justify the cost. This in turn also affected sales because without that support, WiiU owners had very few 'releases' and potential WiiU buyers wouldn't invest in a console that had 'few releases'.

The Switch is offering something 'unique' like the WiiU did at launch too. Gamers are more likely to 'double dip' with games like Skyrim, Wolfenstein etc because of the fact they can play these on the go. I can still see this having a bigger appeal to the 'non-gamers' and 'casuals' - the same demographic that jumped into the pokemon go hype for example and I think that will make up the majority of sales long term. I do think the Switch has a bigger appeal to 'core' gamers too because it offers them that opportunity to feed their passion away from a TV/Monitor, that 'unique' feature only the Switch can offer. As I said, I can see those gamers double dipping on games too because they can enjoy those games when out and about.

Point is, I am NOT denying that the Switch has 'appeal' to core gamers but the fact it has more appeal to the casuals and people that may not have time/opportunity to game at a fixed place often enough to justify the traditional 'console/PC' - the ones that may only game on a Mobile or Tablet as that fits in more with their lifestyle/schedule. I am certain that their are many more people that would fall into these categories and why I think they will make up the majority of Switch sales. Not every 'gamer' - whether PC, PS4 or XB1 want or can have multiple devices and I think these will almost certainly opt to stick with their current' device than trade in or buy a Switch. The fact it offers versatility in some areas will help it sell to some people, but its short comings will also prevent it from selling to others. Some families may still opt to buy the Sony or MS device because it offers a more wider array of media options - like a Bluray player for example and therefore be more 'beneficial' to more people in that household.

Its swings and roundabouts really and we are still in the honeymoon phase. We will just have to see how things develop and where it ends up in 2-3 yrs time. I still think it will have a larger 'casual' audience than those 'core' gamers - much that I hate to use those terms as they are meaningless in reality - I just don't know how better to put it.

I can see why 'core' gamers and why we know many that are 'double dipping' because that's the circles we move in. We may not know how many people who wouldn't consider themselves as 'core' gamers are interested in or have bought the Switch. These people are unlikely to be on forums, on our console friends lists etc so it maybe skewing our perspective too...