Topic: Nintendo Switch --OT--

@LtSarge Well, BotW was originally planned as a Wii U exclusive, and then released as a cross-gen game to push the Switch at launch, so I don't think it really counts in this Wii U/3DS vs Switch discussion.

Nintendo has been almost fully on autopilot since 2017, relying heavily on ports of Wii U/3DS games and strong third party support to carry them, which says everything about the quality of their output on those devices, IMO. It's not like we're getting BotW/SMO-tier experiences every year, or every other year, or even every three or four years. So I just genuinely don't understand the narrative that Nintendo's first-party output is somehow way better in the Switch era.

The funny thing is that their best first-party release in years is probably going to be Metroid Dread, which is a 2D game, lol.

@Ralizah

@Ralizah Yeah I agree that they've been putting out way too many Wii U/3DS ports on the Switch. However, I don't necessarily agree that a higher amount of first-party titles equals a better library. There are other factors that contribute to that, such as the quality of the games, how innovative they are, and so on. Not to mention that game development generally takes longer now than it did before. By your logic, then the PS3 library is automatically better than the PS4 one in terms of first-party output because it had more games. But PS4 arguably has some of the best games Sony has ever made. For example, God of War (2018) is better than any of the previous GoW titles.

So just because Nintendo isn't able to put out a BotW/SMO every other year doesn't make the Switch first-party output worse. But what is there is, in my opinion, so much better than any games we've seen from Nintendo in the past. For example, I think BotW is the best Zelda game ever made. I think Super Mario Odyssey is the best 3D Mario game ever made. Those two titles alone make the Switch first-party output much better than pretty much any games that we've seen from previous systems because they offer different and more ambitious experiences. Same thing with Fire Emblem Three Houses (which I haven't played yet, which is why I've omitted it from my examples).

I don't know about you, but I'd rather take one BotW and one SMO than numerous generic 2D platformers. The point is, quality over quantity.

I loved yesterday's Nintendo Direct personally. Looking forward to the following games/DLC...

2021:
Hyrule Warriors: Age of Calamity Wave 2 DLC - October 29

2022:
Project Triangle Strategy - March 04
Rune Factory 5 - March 22

TBA 2022:
Kirby and the Forgotten Land - Spring 2022
Monster Hunter Rise: Sunbreak DLC - Summer 2022
Bayonetta 3
Chocobo GP

@LtSarge Well, it's not really a "quantity vs quality" argument. You keep going back to BotW and SMO, but those are just two games released 4+ years ago, and one of those was also on the Wii U. So, really, what you're arguing is that SMO, on its own, somehow constitutes better first-party support than the rest of the original content on Wii U/3DS, which... look, opinions are opinions, but that just seems nakedly irrational to me. A game being 2D doesn't make it "generic." Many of Ninty's best games last gen were side-scrollers.

Let's go IP by IP to compare, although I'll be excising the Wii U/3DS ports on Switch, since it doesn't make sense to count them in a comparison like this.

2D Mario:
Wii U/3DS: Super Maker Mario; New Super Mario Bros. 2; New Super Mario Bros. U
Switch: Super Mario Maker 2
Verdict: Wii U/3DS. I don't see how this one can even be debated

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3D Mario
Wii U/3DS: Super Mario 3D Land; Super Mario 3D World
Switch: Super Mario Odyssey
Verdict: I enjoy the 3D sub-series, but I don't mind throwing this to Switch, even if I'm not as gaga about Odyssey as some people were.

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Mario Kart
Wii U/3DS: Mario Kart 7; Mario Kart 8
Switch: The Wii U's leftovers
Verdict: Wii U/3DS by a country mile

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New Zelda
Wii U/3DS: Breath of the Wild; A Link Between Worlds
Switch: Breath of the Wild
Verdict: Wii U/3DS, clearly.

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Zelda Remasters
Wii U/3DS: Twilight Princess HD/Wind Waker HD/Ocarina of Time 3D/Majora's Mask 3D
Switch: Skyward Sword HD/Link's Awakening
Verdict: Seems hard to argue against Wii U/3DS here unless you're REALLY in love with Link's Awakening.

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Splatoon
Wii U/3DS: Splatoon
Switch: Splatoon 2
Verdict: Draw. Although we know Splatoon 3 is releasing next year, so that won't be for long.

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Fire Emblem
Wii U/3DS: Awakening; all three Fates campaigns; Shadows of Valentia
Switch: Three Houses
Verdict: I loved Three Houses, but it did have some gameplay failings that made it worse than the 3DS entries in certain respects, so I'm throwing this to Wii U/3DS, even if Three Houses is, individually, my favorite of these games.

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Yoshi
Wii U/3DS: Yoshi's Woolly World
Switch: Yoshi's Crafted World
Verdict: Wii U/3DS. Woolly World is a far better game; nearly on par with the original Yoshi's Island, IMO.

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Donkey Kong
Wii U/3DS: Tropical Freeze/Returns 3D
Switch: N/A
Verdict: Wii U/3DS by default

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Kirby
Wii U/3DS: Triple Deluxe/Planet Robobot/Kirby's Extra Epic Yarn/Rainbow Curse
Switch: Star Allies
Verdict: Wii U/3DS by a large margin. Maybe the upcoming 3D game will shift that balance a bit, but Planet Robobot is one of the best games in the series and, in certain respects, was pretty wildly different.

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Pikmin
Wii U/3DS: Pikmin 3
Switch: N/A
Verdict: Wii U/3DS by default

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Animal Crossing
Wii U/3DS: New Leaf
Switch: New Horizons
Verdict: This one is obviously down to pure opinion, but New Leaf was a better game in many respects, so I'm throwing it to Wii U/3DS. Not going to bother counting Amiibo Festival/Happy Home Designer, even, although the latter isn't actually a bad game. It's just... not proper Animal Crossing game, lol.

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Super Smash Bros
Wii U/3DS: Smash 4 Wii U/3DS (they're actually different enough to count as separate games)
Switch: Ultimate
Verdict: I'll... throw this to Switch. Ultimate is a REALLY good Smash game, even if Smash Run in the 3DS game is my favorite single-player mode in the series.

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Metroid
Wii U/3DS: Federation Force; Samus Returns
Switch: N/A at the moment
Verdict: Wii U/3DS, for the moment, on the strength of Samus Returns. The Prime trilogy is technically downloadable on the Wii U eshop, but it's more of a backwards-compatible release, so I'm not counting it. I'm OK with calling this a draw since Dread is about to release soon.

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Paper Mario
Wii U/3DS: Sticker Star; Color Splash
Switch: The Origami King
Verdict: Two games against one, but I'll definitely give the win to Switch. TOK was a fantastic game.

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Mario & Luigi
Wii U/3DS: Dream Team/numerous remakes/that one Paper Mario crossover title
Switch: N/A
Verdict: Wii U/3DS by default

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Warioware
Wii U/3DS: Game & Wario; Warioware Gold
Switch: Get It Together!
Verdict: Wii U/3DS, easily.

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Pokemon
Wii U/3DS: X/Y; Sun/Moon; Ultra Sun/Ultra Moon; Omega Ruby/Alpha Sapphire
Switch: Let's Go Pikachu/Eevee; Sword/Shield; DLC for Sword/Shield
Verdict: Wii U/3DS, for sure. Although Arceus: Legends and the Diamond and Pearl remakes are releasing soon, so maybe those will be flip the balance of power?

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Luigi's Mansion
Wii U/3DS: Dark Moon; 3DS remake of GameCube original
Switch: Luigi's Mansion 3
Verdict: No idea.

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Xenoblade Chronicles
Wii U/3DS: Xenoblade Chronicles X
Switch: Xenoblade 2; the Torna expansion; the Definitive Edition of XC1
Verdict: Switch, easily.

Those are the big ones I can think of. There are obviously other games like Ever Oasis, Code Name: S.T.E.A.M., Kid Icarus: Uprising, etc. with no Switch equivalents, but those aren't really established IPs, or are otherwise dormant, so I'm not bothering with them. Switch has those as well: Age of Calamity, the Famicon Detective Club remakes, etc.

Point is, I'm not seeing evidence of any big shift in quality with the Switch. In general, the quality is similar (better in some cases, worse in others), but the Switch is harmed by its reliance on last-generation ports. It's also missing a big new IP like Pikmin on the Gamecube, Splatoon on the Wii U, etc.

@mookysam Banjo-Kazooie is being emulated, so I really don't see them tampering with the actual code of the game like with the Xbox re-release. The whole point is this being the original N64 version of the game, now playable on Switch with an N64 controller.

I definitely prefer the Wii U/3DS era. It’s important to include the backwards compatibility in there because that’s something Switch lacks. So you had a whole 4 consoles worth of content to play last gen. Switch is alright but it’s not grabbed me the same way. I’ve only actually beaten a few games on it because I just hate the act of playing it. That being said, there are some games coming out that look great.

If you include 1st + 3rd party stuff, Switch is slowly edging out 3DS for me, and will fully eclipse it fairly soon. It's a great console. Soon to become my favorite Nintendo console.

But the first-party support is suffering a bit for many of us who owned and played most of the major Wii U and 3DS releases. But, like, 80%+ of the Switch playerbase never owned a Wii U, so I totally get why it wouldn't be an issue for them.

As for Sony, it's looking like the glory days of the PS1 and PS2 will never be topped.

@Ralizah I'm just going to stop you right there. The discussion you want to have is about which games are better and I honestly don't see the point of having that discussion. We can go back and forth bickering which games are better, and that would be no different than a console war. It's fine to have these sorts of discussions when it's done in a casual way, but you're just blowing it way out of proportion now and I'm not enjoying this discussion anymore because you're taking it too seriously now.

It's fine if you think Wii U/3DS's first-party output is better, I respect that. And I hope that you in turn can respect that I think Switch's first-party output is better. Agree to disagree and all that, we all have different opinions. But I'm not going to sit here and list all games that I think are better just to prove to you something that at the end of the day doesn't matter at all. At that point it's not fun anymore, I'm here to have fun discussions with people and they stop being fun once you take things too seriously.

Viiiiideeeo games! You Nintendo fans are crazy 😘

I haven’t touched my switch since Bravely Default 2 to be honest. Mainline Zelda, Mario or Xenoblade or I am not interested at this point frankly.

Probably had too many sambucas

@kyleforrester87 We've all been there.

@kyleforrester87 I recall you not enjoying Xenoblade 1 that much. Am I mistaken?

I've been on the jam all night.

@kyleforrester87 I’ve never had Sambuca but a mate brought back Ouzo which is apparently similar and that tasted like haunted earwax.

@Ralizah I loved XB2! Came to 1 late on the remaster and didn’t enjoy it. Keeping an open mind on the next instalment…

@kyleforrester87 Have you played Torna: The Golden Country? It's an expansion to XC2 that fleshes out the backstories of certain characters, but it basically feels like it's own (somewhat short) Xenoblade game, since it's set generations before the main game and features a unique cast, narrative, combat system, and OST. Really enjoyed my time with it.

@nessisonett I'm certain ouzo is just the waste product of a chemical factory packaged and sold as booze.

Nothing there for me really. Looks like my Switch will continue to be a demo machine for games I then buy on PS5. And slowly playing my way through Ori.

Yeah that one drink after work thing turned into something else entirely. Just got home 🥱

@Ralizah yeah I played Torna, I believe I am right near the end but managed to die on the last boss and didn’t try again. I didn’t love it to be honest, I wanted more adventures with Rex and the Scottish woman! It was nice enough, though.

@LtSarge Yeah, everyone will get different value from it. I'm a bit of a grumpy old man these days, and it's easy to forget that there's now a whole generation of young people who never played any of the games. My stance may change depending on how many games are added and what it ends up costing, but what I would really like to see are some of the quirkier titles that have never seen rerelease. Games like Mischief Makers, Mystical Ninja Starring Goemon, Space Station Silicon Valley and Body Harvest. Diddy Kong Racing would also be a nice one, given the DS version butchered it. As for Banjo-Kazooie, I'm rather hoping that Microsoft see that the continued interest signals that people would love a new Banjo platformer.

I haven't played Mario Kart 64 in years, but had an absolute blast in multiplayer with my siblings back in the day. It's definitely simple (and slow) compared to the new, flashier entries, but there's a purity there that you might enjoy. Mario Kart 8 is almost sensory overload, which is why I prefer Mario Kart 7 over it.

@Ralizah Other than Metroid Dread and BotW2, third party releases are more enticing for me going forward. Nintendo sometimes feel like they're phoning it in a bit, especially with all the ports. Metroid is the most excited I've been for a Nintendo game since 2017, and I can hardly wait. Just a few more weeks to go!