Topic: Games you've recently beat

@Kidfried Great impressions! Glad to see you finally finished the game.

Out of curiousity, did you stop at "END or BEGINNING" (i.e. the canonical true ending to the game), or did you go for the "Another Time" bonus ending as well?

Because, if you didn't go for the bonus ending, I won't discuss it.

A fair criticism, although, given the structure of the game, I'm not sure how it could have been avoided. It is one of my bigger criticisms of the game, though: the initial rush you get when you're first playing the game and are forced to play mind games with other people in the AB Room gives way to "box ticking" as you peck around for other strands to continue unraveling the game's complex knitting.

Given the focus on exploring the consequences of your actions in different timelines, though, I tend to think of it as a sort of spandrel in the game design: a necessary by-product that arises when you combine other aspects of the game together. I can think of ways around this issue, of course, but they all affect the fundamental design and flow of the game itself, so that's no good. A lot of what I love about the game would change in that case. I'd prefer a flawed design that I love to a tighter, less flawed design that isn't as ambitious and engaging.

Although it could be argued that it's not a flaw at all, but a fundamental aspect of the game's evolution as an experience. Consider that Sigma, at the beginning of the game, has no conscious awareness of his deep experience with and connection to morphogenetic tunneling (i.e. the consciousness jumping to different instances of himself in different timelines). The AB game is this intense game of the prisoner's dilemma that he's been forced into, and he doesn't understand the purpose for it or any way to deal with it. Similarly, the player kind of has to blindly make choices about whether to trust or betray the people they've spent time around. In a move that deliberately identifies the player with the character, though, the action of "box ticking" different endings in our universe is the in-game equivalent of Sigma bouncing between timelines, looking for ways to escape his situation. This is addressed explicitly when the game reveals that the timeline manipulation game mechanic is actually a 4D look at what Sigma has actually been experiencing throughout the game. Characters remember things that the player has done previously, further demolishing the barrier between the ludic elements of the game and the experience of the character within the game itself. Granted, other games have satirized, subverted, and or played with the idea of ludonarrative dissonance, but I don't think I've ever played a game that so completely both disintegrated it and made that disintegration an integral part of the game (and experience of the game) itself.

VLR has the best escape room design in the series, imo. There's more of them, and they're often a good deal more elaborate than anything found in 999/ZTD.

Putting aside the fact that Uchikoshi isn't exactly known for the amazing character writing in his work (they're OK, but I don't think the casts of these games are exactly unforgettable, y'know?), I found some of the characterization choices interesting. Particularly with Sigma, who is... well... an a-hole. He's often rude, selfish, excessively vulgar, and don't even get me started on the times he almost randomly starts sexually harrassing the girls around him. It must be an experience playing the game today in that regard, considering the blatant harrassment made me incredibly uncomfortable even when I was playing it back in 2012. And there was none of the consciousness-raising about how women are treated in the news back then. Feminist talking points weren't nearly as commonplace as they are now. I guess all I'll say in that regard is that, from what I can recall, the other characters usually reacted with anger and/or disgust when he did this (his perviness must have been even creepier for them when you consider what HE ACTUALLY LOOKS LIKE), and the behavior isn't.... unexpected given the fact that he's mentally a late teens/early 20s college bro who was clearly never taught to respect women as people. I can dig a game where the protagonist is an extremely flawed and often unlikeable individual, but, considering the game never really addresses that behavior in a broader way, I do wish it wasn't present in the game. Especially since I could see it turning off a lot of people from what I consider to be an incredible unique and well-crafted experience.

RE: Junpei... considering how much older he is in this game, and how much crazy stuff he's seen, it doesn't surprise me that his behavior is different. Same with Akane. If Junpei's characterization bothered you in this game, though, all I can say is that I'm eager to see how you react to how he is portrayed (in much, much younger form) in Zero Time Dilemma.

The game absolutely has a terminal case of what might be termed "scope sprawl," but that's part of what I loved about it. 999 is a tightly-crafted thriller where the characters hardly ever have room to breathe, so to speak, and the game's focus is primarily on one central mystery. VLR, on the other hand, does an extensive amount of worldbuilding, crafts an intricate metaphysical system around its complex nest of mysteries, and, oftentimes, just slows down to allow the characters to discuss stuff. A game without scope sprawl likely wouldn't feature a scene where a robot with a cockney accent talks at length about Searlian thought experiments about the nature of consciousness, for example.

What trophy? VLR doesn't have any missable trophies (how could it?), and online resources are informing me that this is true for the Nonary Games collection as a whole.

@Kidfried

Re 1: The hidden ending is never addressed in the sequel. Uchikoshi says this is because the scene was supposed to be an "extra" for the fans who thoroughly completed it, but considering how narratively dense the scene is, that explanation doesn't really fly with me. Considering how... unrealized... ZTD feels compared to previous games in the series, my guess is that he abandoned that narrative thread for some reason..

Re 3: The design of the rooms is interesting, as you have to kind of combine a bunch of smaller problems or puzzles with a larger guiding theme to make them feel integrated. It's like walking a tightrope between Professor Layton and The Witness, so to speak.

Re 5: I have often wondered how many of the hours I spent playing that game were actually consisted of watching a dot slowly move across a map of the facility. There's undoubtedly, you're right, a ton of padding that makes the game feel bulkier than it needs to.

Re 6: Oof! That sucks. If you clear the game data, does the remake give you the option to skip text by default? If you could fast-forward your way through the early parts of the game, it might make obtaining the trophy more bearable.

Reminds me of Odin Sphere: Leifthrasir. I played the heck out of that game and got the majority of the trophies (44/47 non-platinum trophies), but I deleted it without realizing, at the time, that doing so also deletes save data (I played on PS Vita), and I didn't subscribe to PSN at the time. So now I'm blocked out from the platinum because I didn't find one or two recipes and texts.

Hell if I'm going back to it just for trophies, though. I completed it in every sense that actually matters.

Re 7: Nothing wrong with being critical about games. It allows you to accept their flaws while also more fully understanding what they did right.

Also, I know insecurities aren't typically what you would call rational in nature, but you're one of the most articulate people on this forum. I'd NEVER guess English wasn't your first language. It's really impressive how fully you've mastered it (in written form, anyhow).

@Kidfried
That's my understanding. It's a miracle that ZTD was even greenlit, apparently, considering how poorly VLR was received in Japan. When word came out that the third ZE game likely wasn't being made, there was a massive online campaign from Western fans to revive the project, and that seems to have been successful in convincing Spike Chunsoft to allow development to resume. I'm guessing that most of the team behind VLR had moved on to other projects by then, though. There's actual written story content in that game that's relegated to some sub-menu, instead of being actualized in the full game, which points, again, to a rushed development cycle.

Yeah, if trophies aren't hugely important to you, it's probably best to leave it. If you ever get the hankering to play the game again one day, you can get it then, right?

I spent 55+ hours completing that game. So, yeah, it kinda sucks.

Well, the best way to learn almost any craft is to just... do it. Actual experience with writing, or painting, or composing music, or whatever is far more valuable than anything else. I guess posting on a foreign language forum is about as close as you can come to written language immersion!

i actually have a huge problem with beating games lately. I dunno why ill play get almost near the end and then just stop and play something else. I always say ill come back and finish but i never do. Last one i actually finished is persona 5 : / wow so long ago every rpg since i got to the end ish and just left it .

I finished BioShock 2 yesterday. I quite enjoyed that. I think it was a step up from the first one for the most part. While I can see why people didn't enjoy the story as much as the first, I do appreciate they didn't try to replicate the ''Would You Kindly''-reveal with some knockoff twist. They kept it it's own thing, and added their own stakes. Pretty much the opposite of what they did with Big Sister, which was a completely unnecessary and pointless addition to the franchise. In the penultimate mission, when they throw two of them at you, I was disappointed in how unimaginative they made that fight. It could've been something really special, and instead we just got knockoff Big Daddies. I did appreciate Eleanor ''turning into'' a Big Sister, though. That was very clever, and it was nice to be able to have her in combat from there onwards.

The combat is practically improved in every possible way. I did have a bit of a problem with a big difficulty spike inbetween games, and as someone who is not a fan of being served too big of a challenge, I therefore turned the difficulty down to easy. I probably could've gone back up again later in the game, since it became incredibly easy, but it was fine as it was. I did find that this game encouraged me to use different plasmids and weapons far more than the original. In the original I easily managed to get through it only using Elictricity Bolt and the wrench (imagine my disappointment when I realised the sequel did not have my familiar wrench), but here I pretty much used every plasmid I had equipped in every big fight. The noticeable difference between plasmid levels definitely helped there I think, as well as the new (and improved) research system actively motivating you to be varied in your combat strategy. As someone who usually gets stuck in what they know with combat, it was nice to see a game basically force me to try and use different things, and so I did as a result.

That said, the new enemies in this game (aside from the Big Sister as previously mentioned) weren't very interesting. I feel like there could've been done a lot more with that. Brutes, Alpha Series and Rumblers were fine the first time, but they threw them at you so consistently that the curiosity factor quickly wore off. I would've liked to have seen them come up with something original for some new enemies, or even a new interesting variation on splicers. I believe it was all just the same, including the return of the incredibly annoying Houdini Splicers. Seriously. I hate them.

A huge quality of life improvement to me (which probably helped a lot in me following the story much more closely this time around) was the quietening of the game volume while an audio tape was being played. So many times in the original I ran across audio tapes to listen to and then being quickly attacked afterwards, and because of that not being able to pay attention to the audio tape as it was became unintelligible thanks to all the combat sounds. They made sure that didn't happen this time, and it was very much noticed on my end. I loved hearing all the background lore on the audio tapes about the politics and dynamics in Rapture, as well as slowly hearing the audio tapes catch up to the present and even their referencing Jack from the first game by the end. I made sure to carefully listen to all of them this time around, and it really added an extra layer that I appreciated.

I enjoyed that the morality aspect of the game was expanded upon in this sequel. The choices between sparing and killing three NPC's throughout the game, which in turn also affects the ending along with how you treated the Little Sisters, were great. The last two NPC's gave me a real moral dilemma, but I ended up killing both of them. The first NPC I spared, which luckily spared me from the worse good ending, but she also clearly deserved to be spared. She really didn't do anything wrong, unlike the second NPC. Like I said, I got the best ending possible ending. I looked up the other endings on YouTube too, and they were all interesting. I especially liked seeing the absolute worst ending. They very cleverly used the choices in the game to really shape Eleanor, and I always like a good choice and consequence.

I did like playing as a Big Daddy. It didn't make much of a difference gameplay-wise, outside of your wrench being replaced by the drill (which I grew to love), but the idea of these you being the person in the suit and having this bond with the Little Sisters just really spoke to me. The harvesting sequences weren't all that fun, but just having a Little Sister with me talking about angels and everything was incredibly... cute? The levels also felt a lot more expansive, and I feel like it took me much longer to get through all of them than it took in the first BioShock. Luckily they were all fairly well designed, with enough fun areas to explore. I saw a lot of complaints regarding BioShock 2 were also the freshness of the setting having worn out by the sequel, but as someone who never fully fell in love with Rapture as a setting in the first place that didn't really affect me personally.

The final two missions were definitely the best part of the game. I think the sequence where you play as a Little Sister and see the world through their eyes might be my favourite part of both games. Possibly only beaten by WYK. It was incredibly menacing and intimidating, but at the same time very serene and calming. Probably exactly what they were going for! I did also enjoy the underwater sequences. They were a nice addition and added some nice sightseeing to the game. The culmination of this entire game was very well done, although it once again lacked a satisfying final battle. The first game had the incredibly easy Fontaine boss fight, and this second game just has a wave battle for a few minutes. It seems like they're never really going to get a hang on that. One minor inconvenience I experienced with the final two missions however, was my game crashing after having visited the first pediatric ward. I lost about an hour of progress there, and had to redo it all. Luckily I was able to get through it faster this time around now that I already explored everything, but it was still an annoying added chore. Finally, it seemed a bit cheap the way they got rid of Sinclair. He was a very interesting character to me all game long, having clearly done some very bad things in his past, but that being balanced with his unconditional helping of you throughout the game. To simply throw him at you as an enemy thanks to Lamb turning him into a Big Daddy felt like a very unsatisfying end to his story, and not very well thought out. I was hoping they'd do something more interesting with him, but at least they didn't copy the first BioShock and go the Atlas route.

So, overall, I quite enjoyed BioShock 2. I don't think this is a franchise I'm ever going to truly love, but it keeps me engaged and wanting more. I'd say the sequel is about an 8/10. Slightly better than the original, but nothing that really amazed me in the broad sense. I'll have to see what I'm going to follow this up with. I have a few games lying in my backlog (Yakuza 0, Batman Arkham, Hellblade, The Council) waiting to be touched, but I'll probably play and finish Minerva's Den first. Not sure I'll immediately move onto Infinite, since it might be good to have a palate cleanser inbetween as to not completely overwhelm myself with BioShock. I do wonder, which in case someone has read this far, feel free to tell me, if Elizabeth will play more of an active role in Infinite. The communication in the first two BioShocks is nice, but impressive cutscenes are really something I've been missing. From everything I've seen of Infinite, it seems to have that in spades. You barely really interact with any characters physically in these first two games, and if that does change in Infinite I'll be a very happy man. I'm also very excited to eventually get to Burial at Sea, which looks like an incredibly interesting piece of DLC. But for now, I shall sign off and do whatever happens next!

@Tjuz Really well-written impressions there! It has been quite a minute since I last played Bioshock 2 (probably seven or eight years, at least), but I do remember really enjoying it, and never quite understood why it's considered the black sheep of the franchise. Possibly because OG Bioshock was such a revelation at the time, and because Infinite was so incredibly different.

Re Elizabeth in Infinite... she is a pretty constant presence in the game, and, as I recall, will help you reload during fights (among other things). She's one of the better companion characters I've ever seen in a video game.

Never played any of the DLC, unfortunately, which might give me an incentive to revisit the modern-gen ports of the games at some point.

Yes, Elizabeth plays an active role, to say the least. And although I skipped Bioshock 2 and went straight from BS1 to BS Infinite, I feel confident that you’ll be happy with an increased amount of cutscenes and character interaction. There is a progression in gameplay and story telling, in my opinion and Infinite is one of my favorite games of last generation.

@Kidfried @Ralizah @Tjuz

Burial at Sea is excellent and a great adjunct to Infinite.

I still think Infinite is my favourite of the series as the story I found the most interesting and was one I thought about for a while afterwards. It was the first of the series I played however (PS+ freebie on PS3; I played the Collection on PS4 after). And yes, Elizabeth plays a big part and finds ammo and money for you as you explore.

I enjoyed BS2 as well but can only assume the “negative” opinions around it were because of the gap between games so it wasn’t what people were expecting. Infinite was so different from the first two with its setting that it was quite distinct from them.

@Ralizah @Th3solution @Kidfried @Thrillho I'm very happy to hear Elizabeth takes on a more active role in the final installment as opposed to the companions from the previous games. It's definitely something I had been missing, even if they first two games did their thing well in their own right. I did play the BioShock Infinite intro years ago, and I remember being absolutely entranced with it (until the combat started). Hopefully I'll have the same experience this time around, while also appreciating the combat more and now knowing all the proper backstory of the previous games to put it in context. I'm very excited to meet Elizabeth as I have heard great things!

@Ralizah Thanks! Glad my rambling was still coherent enough to read through, haha. If you do end up going back to the modern-gen ports, I can attest to their quality. They run great at a mostly consistent 60 FPS and the control schemes have not aged poorly. There's also some noticeable graphical improvements, so it's definitely worth a go. I can't quite speak of the DLC quality yet, but I'll get back to you!

@Th3solution Glad to hear you love Infinite. It seems like the general BioShock fanbase is somewhat divided on it, which I assume partially comes from the location change. As someone who's not all that attached to Rapture, I think I'll enjoy the more colorful and pretty landscapes of Columbia. This definitely makes me feel more confident that Infinite might end up being my favourite, as well as the more hardcore sci-fi sounding elements I've heard are present in this game. Love me some complex sci-fi.

@Kidfried @Thrillho I'm thrilled that Burial at Sea is a nice ending to the franchise. Seems like the franchise has been somewhat abandoned lately, and Burial at Sea sounds like the perfect swan song for the original trilogy at least. I'm glad it most likely won't disappoint. Maybe I'll appreciate the Rapture location a bit more after having spent a lot of time in Columbia and ultimately going back to it.

@Thrillho I can imagine BioShock 2 might not have been the sequel a lot of fans wanted. It takes a big departure from the storyline from the first game, and putting you in the shoes of a Big Daddy obviously heavily changes your position within the game's world. I'm glad they went with something so disconnected from the first game, while still acknowledging the first game's events with audio tapes, so that they could really make it it's own thing. But I suppose for some people who really, really loved the first BioShock that could be a big negative. Also glad to hear Infinite is your favourite too! Hopefully my expectations won't have been set too high now, haha.

Was a great read @Tjuz of your BioShock 1 and 2 thoughts!

I'm a touch surprised you ended up enjoying 2 more overall. But then again I played them at release so that probably helps things thanks to 2's muuuuuuch smoother gameplay to today's standards and not getting anything spoiled for me

I do think 2 is a good game though... maybe not as many new ideas but i did enjoy playing through it as Alpha and I quite liked the bond between him and Eleanor.

I remember that the Minerva's Den DLC was quite well received at the time and the story in it was considered a step up from the main game. I unfortunately haven't played the dlc and that was absolutely ages ago i remember reading about it so forgive me if I'm wrong!

All this talk of BioShock has made me want to go and replay them!

... Though as you can attest to it's quality I could get the collection instead... 😋

I have played Infinite as well and can attest also that Elizabeth is a much better companion then the others, never once getting in your way or needing any particular help. Not to mention being very well written and voice acted!

Troy Baker as Booker Dewitt is also a delight.

I personally prefer the first game overall... But Infinite to me is only a fraction below it, even though I never enjoyed the vigors as much as the plasmids from one and especially two. Can't entirely remember why though...

I will have to disagree with @Kidfried @Thrillho though. I admittedly didn't play it (I watched it instead) but I thought Burial At Sea was a bit lackluster overall.

Who knows though, maybe actually playing it will make me see it in a much more positive light!

So this isn't exactly my first time playing it (... It's the fifth over the past nine years 😅) but seeing as I now have a place to blast out my crazy ramblings, here's my thoughts on Shin Megami Tensei: Lucifer's Call Or Shin Megami Tensei: Nocturne for the US/Japan readers.

Hope you enjoy reading it!

A little background

Nocturne/Lucifer's Call is the third entry in the mainline Shin Megami Tensei games by Atlus, which people are more aware of thanks to the offshot persona series (Me included) and the only mainline game to come to Playstation. PlayStation 2 in particular (Though it was released as a playstation classic for PS3. I can't attest to that ports quality, I've been playing the PS2 version)

Nocturne/Lucifer's call is a classic Japanese turn based Role Playing Game.

You play as a silent protagonist that you're free to name. First, surname and a nickname is all yours to do as you will.

You're also able to name three other main characters in the game which are your teacher, a female school friend and a male school friend too.

As you can tell it involves high school students. But it also involves demons AND the end of the world.

... Except that within the first fifteen minutes everything aside from Tokyo (which gets turned into a weird small curved world) gets obliterated.

So... Not entirely your standard RPG.

If you didn't get from the previously stated fact of that I've played this through five times already (With one save file that's 250 hours or so (for three runs) and another that's 150 hours + (for two runs)) then I quite like this game... And maybe you'd like to know why?

You poor sod I mean lucky for you I'm gonna tell you

What I like

The atmosphere

I've never been one to really... Pick out a game's atmosphere? It's a bit hard to describe exactly. I've noticed the atmosphere in other games but I guess they've never leapt out at me?

SMT:LC is a very lonely game with your party being made up of the demons you encounter (or fuse) in the vortex world (Tokyo's new name during this... Transcendence)

You'll encounter a lot of npc's throughout the game. Mostly demons. But there's also your old friends, your teacher and two other humans. Plus Dante from Devil May Cry as the European box art loves to point out. (Unless you're playing the original Japanese release which doesn't have that content or the Japanese re-release of the director's cut which includes Raidou Kuzunoha from Devil Summoner instead) but there's no cutscenes/discussions/dialogue with your ever changing party of demons.

It's very old school in that regard... Like FF I or dare I say for a more recent example like Dark Souls.

Despite the fact you're always fighting with a party of three demons (Along with the main protagonist of course) in battle and have a stock of up to eight (twelve with the upgrades) at all times it is quite a lonesome game and I really enjoy that.

No voice acting

This may be a bit of contention to others, but I quite like it has no voice acting. Well not entirely at least.

It has SOME voice acting in that demons will occasionally roar, grunt, yell make some kind if noise during battle when attacking or getting hit themselves. But otherwise that's it.

Considering this was released in the west 2004/2005 for a lower budgeted game with quite a bit of dialogue this could've had a pretty bad dub. Thankfully it misses that entirely, but understandably that's not for everyone.

It does however let something else shine.

The Soundtrack

Persona 3, Persona 4 & Persona 5 (I don't like 5's as much at all admittedly) each have good, undeniably well constructed soundtracks.

SMT:LC is rather diverse with it's musical selection.

From the ominous and rather slow electronic opening music, the alternate opening and it's upbeat electric guitar to pump things up, a battle theme that has synthesised vocals accompanying an electronic beat and guitar to the end of the world accompanied by a slow paced piano & violin piece that bursts into an energetic and moody organ solo once the destruction takes place...

There's so much about this soundtrack that I love Metatron's grandiose boss theme is in particular a delight. The fiend battles that are accompanied by bells, electronic beat and wails (that give it an almost opera like quality) is also a bizarre treat , that I recommend you give it a listen even if you aren't interested in the game itself.

The battle gameplay

Battles in SMT:LC are turn based. Unlike persona 3 - 5 and it's "one more" system, SMT:LC features the press turn system.

You can have up to four turns (Depending on the party) You can gain a second in a second cycle if you complete the graveyard challenges in the amala labyrinth .

This is shown by some icon in the upper left corner of the screen and enemies can have at least six (Some bosses have a move that can give them more turns... One in particular has a nasty ai bug that can spam it)

Simply put one icon equals one turn and typically one action removes one icon.

If you get a critical hit with a physical attack, strike a weakness with magic or pass to the next ally, then instead of using up a complete turn, you'll only use only half a turn icon, allowing the party a maximum of eight turns in one round.

This also extends to enemies however.

If you're unfortunate enough to end up facing an enemy party of six (that's quite rare though) ... You could end up taking twelve turns of damage if you're REALLY unlucky.

There's a nice layer of strategy to fights because of this, especially in the beginning hours where you'll have less moves, a smaller stock of demons and more weaknesses on your allies in particular.

The game encouraging you to switch up allies on a regular basis (with 170 or so of them from cute and cuddly Jack Frost to Odin) which also helps reinforce that atmosphere as you never really have a constant bar the protagonist.

At least til the mid/end game...

What I don't like

The Overworld & Directions

The game doesn't include objectives, or even a small note of what your current one is. If you've left the game for a week or two and can't remember what you're supposed to be doing... Then good luck with that.

The overworld is also a touch basic and sometimes the direction to get to your next destination can be a little unclear on where exactly you're supposed to head to ... Not helping matters if you're completely lost on where you were in the game in the first place.

Padding

Like in all rpg's there's padding. I'm not terribly fond of it in any game (playing FF III on DS lately has shown me some awful padding even if it's quite brief) ... The final dungeon in particular is a bit of a slog to get through with plenty of long floors (one floor in particular revolving around a bunch of teleports that's anything but fun to get through)

It's not too bad, but it's something to consider.

Story & peculiar cast decisions

The story's serviceable, a bit more low key for the most part (I don't personally mind that) ... spread a little thinly because of the atmosphere but it gets the job done. To be honest I'm not entirely sure how you could actually improve it.

Two characters eventually come up with their own plan for the new world. One a might is right aspect, the other a solitary everybody has their own existence ... Yet both task the player to do the work for them to actually realise most of their philosophy.

It's not so much inherently bad, just a minor niggle that's at odds with their own belief... Besides using you cus why not?

Demon Negotiation

The main character has a talk option and is the only one (Unless a demon has a learnt one of the many talk skills) to be able to recruit demons to the party during battle.

This system is COMPLETELY random, with the enemy asking for money, items, will drain your health or ask you a philosophical question.

You'll get frustrated at times as the demon will bugger off taking everything you've given them, heal you/give you an item THEN bugger off, get mad and do nothing ... Or attack you cus you've offended them and it going straight to their turn

It's easier as you go along with more resources with money and items being much easier to obtain and you could make a demon your "HM slave" with talk skills and the boost skill charisma (good luck in getting it though)

Additional points

Difficulty

There's two difficulty levels for SMT:LC. Normal and hard. Hard should be renamed nightmare or hell.

Random encounters are incredibly dangerous. You can quite easily die in the tutorial area. In fact I've barely got past the first dungeon before giving up on it.

Normal is already quite a challenge!

You COULD start it on a second run if you wanted... But that's cheating things a bit

Endings

There's six endings in game. The most satisfying (to me at least) is the one which involves you going through all five kalpas of the bonus dungeon The Amala Labyrinth before you enter the final dungeon The Tower Of Kagatsuchi (Going through the obelisk through the second time)

The others are obtained through dialogue options throughout the game (and occasionally a question from an enemy demon during negotiation may push favour towards one) , with one being fairly hard to trigger as it only has two choices as far as I'm aware in the game and it's much easier to trigger any of the other endings

Overall

If you don't like RPGs or JRPGs in particular, this isn't the 60+ hour game that's gonna convert you into loving them.

If you do like them however and haven't played it yet then hopefully you'll give this a chance! 😀

@Foxy-Goddess-Scotchy Holy crud, you really put a lot of thought into that post. Well done!

As someone who typically values gameplay above all else in my games, I appreciate how Atlus can fashion JRPGs that strip back the dialogue and narrative elements in favor of challenging, nuanced, and explorative game design that absolutely overwhelms everything else. It's why I'm such a big fan of the Etrian Odyssey series. In both of these series, you're constantly exploring dangerous and evocative environments, and every fight is a vicious struggle for survival.

Nocturne has an incredible sense of atmosphere to it, indeed. It's adult and horrifying without subjecting the player to graphic or exploitative content. It's definitely nihilistic, but in more of a creative, Nietzschean sense than the defeatist sense people often use that word in. And it does a great job of balancing that sense of human striving for meaning with a dense and very rich mythological backdrop that helps to off-set the oftentimes individualistic focus of the characters.

SMT IV shares a lot of these same vibes with Nocturne, although its mythology is definitely much more Western and Judeo-Christian. Also, both games have what can only be called a supremely unhelpful overworld map.

Awww thanks @Ralizah I'll admit I was kinda hoping you'd like it as all your impressions have been the one to beat ha ha! 😉

To me I need either a good story or good gameplay at least for a game. I can take mediocre/poor of one of those elements so long as the other is good.

I've never got round to playing SMT IV, the fact that Europe never got a physical release really annoyed me. So much I never got it despite that's what I originally got my 2DS for.

I just kinda forgot about Apocalypse though.

I'm a bit disappointed they haven't made another mainline SMT for home consoles... Maybe the switch one will come to PS4?

I'd love to see those shiny persona 5 HD demon models again in a more traditional rpg (I think after 3 persona's I'm a bit bored of the style... Or persona 5 just wasn't my cup of tea)

@Foxy-Goddess-Scotchy I... have a limit on both. I used to think I could tolerate a horrible story if the game had good gameplay. And then I played Fire Emblem Fates: Conquest, which has some of the worst writing I've ever seen in a video game (in addition to some pretty extensive censorship that actually removes game mechanics; ugh!). I finished it, and then I sold the damn thing. I can tolerate gameplay that isn't brilliant if the story is compelling, but I still need to have fun playing it. An example I would give of this is most of the older Final Fantasy games. They're very rote JRPGs mechanically, and the combat is mostly pretty mindless, but they excel in terms of the score, characters, stories, presentation, etc.

It's a balance, of course, but, at the end of the day, what distinguishes video games for me is the interactivity. It's also why I kind of hate Naughty Dog's game design being so influential on the industry: it's disturbing to me when I can't tell where my input ends and the game itself takes over, and that, more than anything else they've done, will be the legacy they leave the Western side of the medium.

I kind of understand neglecting to buy a game at all out of anger over the way the release is treated in your region. Europe got this BEAUTIFUL limited physical edition of Fatal Frame V on the Wii U, but it was digital-only in the States. I don't mind digital only releases on virtually any other system (and am actually 90% digital on PS4 and Switch), but I just... don't want to download games on my Wii U. It's the only system where I want to go purely physical, and I have, apart from a free digital copy of NSMBU I got as part of the Mario Kart 8 promotion and a few VC releases.

I'm guessing SMT V will stay Switch-exclusive, just like I continue to be skeptical about Persona 5 coming to the Switch. Atlus likes to keep certain franchises exclusive to certain ecosystems. Persona has always been Sony exclusive, and once SMT went to Nintendo, it never came back. I don't see why that would change now. As the saying goes: "the best predictor of future behavior is past behavior."

But, yeah, I'm excited for SMT V. The handheld games are fantastic, and Apocalypse, in particular, is one of my all-time favorite games in the series (granted, it sacrifices a lot of the series' identity in the process, but it's SUCH a fun and polished JRPG), but I do feel like the hardware has obviously been holding back the true potential of the series. If nothing else, it'll be cool to have third-person battles back, for the first time since Nocturne.

Considering you want to see the HD models adopted in a more traditional JRPG, I'm guessing you're a big fan of the DDS games? I'm playing through the first one right now, actually. It's interesting. It has SMT's aesthetics, but gameplay-wise it reminds me more of something like Final Fantasy X.

Yeah I remember hearing about those fire emblems 😏

And physical all the way for me unless it won't ever get a physical release. And even then it depends on if I want it enough.

The Digital Devil Saga duology is quite fun indeed! i was actually thinking of going onto that next seeing as it's much shorter at around 30/40 hours

Is it your first time playing it?

@Foxy-Goddess-Scotchy Yeah, I've actually never played the DDS games before. I also need to play the Raidou Kuzunoha games. I love how affordable it is to collect their PS2 games, actually; unlike the majority of companies, they've actually gone to the trouble of re-printing a lot of these games to help keep costs down.

Being a late Atlus convert, there's still a substantial portion of their library that's new to me.

DDS2 is a direct sequel to the original game, right?

Ooh well good luck and if you need anything feel free to @ me @Ralizah !

I actually sold my Raidou Kuzunoha for £40 two years back (I bought it for £10 pre-owned like ten years back) as i thought it was... ok. It's nothing special. I heard the sequel is better but... The first one was the only one to come here

I believe Koei published Kuzunoha 1 (It and persona 3/FES are quite rare over here) whereas I can still get both DDS' and Lucifer's call for like £10-£15 new as Ghostlight have reprinted them fairly well

And yes DDS2 is a direct sequel and starts off exactly after the end of DDS1 more or less

@Foxy-Goddess-Scotchy Glad to hear you enjoyed reading my thoughts! I'm sure the spoiling of the WYK twist changed my experience with the first game quite a bit, so that's definitely something to be taken into account. I do feel like it seems that the praise for the first BioShock's story heavily relies on that twist though, while I think the second game has the more consistenly good storyline. The first BioShock hits some real low points throughout, whereas I didn't really have that experience with the second game. That said, the second game doesn't have anything as memorable or impressive as the WYK reveal for sure.

I did play through Minerva's Den today, and I wasn't all that impressed. It was a solid DLC, but I don't think it's the fantastic story it's hyped up to be by some. It's clever and well executed (as BioShock stories always are), but nothing all that noteworthy in my opinion. It's no Lair of the Shadow Broker or Citadel!

Glad to hear you also enjoy BioShock Infinite, even if not as much as the others. A shame about your disappointment with Burial at Sea! I hope I end up in the ''great'' camp. I'll be interested to see what I think about these so-called vigors you mentioned. Combat can really make or break a game for me (mostly because I'll think a system is annoying/too difficult as opposed to it not being my preferred style), so I hope that's not the case here. If it is, I'll suppose I'll just have to push through for the story! I've come this far!

I'd love to comment on your thoughts about Shin Megami Tensei, but I'm afraid I have zero experience with JRPG's. Great write-up, though!

I think I agree @Tjuz in that a lot of Bioshock 1's narrative relies on the twist.

It's so innocuous if you don't know it though, and as someone who likes writing in particular, the fact that it's all the way through without raising any suspicion really does make it hit hard.

Not to mention the clever little meta commentary on gamers not really questioning what they're being told to do in a game.

Shame about Minerva's Den though, was always tempted to get that upon hearing the praise for it. But then again we actually liked BioShock 2 compared to most reviewers who viewed it as a cash grab so maybe that's a factor?

Going off of memory I'd say BioShock 1 is a 9, BioShock infinite an 8.75 & Bioshock 2 an 8. So I'd only rank Infinite a bit lower then 1 personally.

I never liked that you could only hold 2 guns at a time in Infinite either compared to the others where you have the whole weapon wheel.

But I really need to replay them to be honest it's been sooooooo long.

And as long as you enjoyed the write up of my thoughts on Shin Megami Tensei: Nocturne/Lucifer's Call and thought it was well written then that's all the comment I need!

Title: Yumi's Odd Odyssey (AKA Sayonara Umihara Kawase)

Platform: Nintendo 3DS

What is it?: The 3DS (and eventually Vita/PC) entry in an obscure, Japanese cult classic series that started on the SNES where you play as a girl named Umihara (or Yumi in this localization, I guess) who uses her fishing rod to grapple her way through levels that pose a variety of platforming challenges. Levels are completed by finding doors, and the structure of the game is such that you open up alternate routes through the game by way of somewhat hidden doors in certain levels. There are optional backpack collectibles to find as well, along with alternate characters to unlock.

Level of completion: 3/5 endings cleared; 39/50 total stages completed; 17/40 backpacks found. I could play it more, but, honestly, I feel like I'm pretty much done with the game.

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What I liked

• The gameplay hinges almost entirely on the manipulation of a complex, physics-based grappling system which is your primary means of platforming through the various levels in the game. Lengthening and shortening your fishing line at various elevations and arcs of your swing will wildly alter how you progress through the level. I became proficient enough to progress through most of the stages, but truly skilled (primarily Japanese) players can perform awesome feats of skill and blitz through the most brutal of levels in a manner of seconds.
• Alternate characters to unlock. Some of which have special abilities.

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What I disliked:

• There's little enemy variety. Just a couple different types of mutated fish monsters that eerily lumber around the stages. They're totally at odds with the cutesy design of the rest of the game.
• Of the special abilities available to your characters, only one, which adds a single level checkpoint which you can re-spawn at once, is of any real use. And then that is often poorly implemented, because it often doesn't reset other elements within the level. If you die from a fish monster boss near a checkpoint, for example, it's not uncommon to immediately die again upon re-spawning because the fish monster is literally standing in the same location where you re-spawned.
• This game is ugly. Very bland visual presentation with squat character models. Very little variation in the backdrops, and they never seem to have any rhyme or reason to the way they're arranged. The level design is unimaginative as well, with platforms feeling like they've been arranged almost at random at times.
• While I understand that the developers wanted to make your platforming success solely dependent on your ability to manipulate the complex physics related to your fishing line, I wish that controlling your character didn't feel quite so clunky as it does.
• The performance, at what feels like a sluggish sub-30fps framerate, is disappointing as well.
• There's no context for almost anything that happens in this game. You swing around, capture horrifying fish monsters, find backpacks, and enter hidden doors... cuz. This extends to boss battles as well, if they can even be called that. The game will just unceremoniously dump you in another level, except this time there's a larger fish monster lumbering around, and you have to find a way to get stuff to fall on its head. In the case of one particularly evil level, you have to grapple onto loads of fruit in the ceiling and use your body weight to spill them out onto the boss below (if you're, indeed, lucky enough for the boss to happen to lumber far enough over for this to happen). The fruit will knock you down to your death if it hits you, however, which means you have to swing away a split second after activating the spill. This, on its own, would be manageable if it wasn't for the fact that nine-tenths of the floor wasn't covered in spikes that insta-kill you. And even that would be OK if the swinging wasn't entirely momentum-based, which doesn't play well with split-second evasions.
• For a game where death can come at any time, it's annoying to continually get booted into the level select screen upon dying.
• Here is a screenshot I took of my 3DS on the results screen of the third ending stage. This game is brutally difficult just to play. This is a perfect encapsulation of the futility of my struggle. By the way, all 310 attempts took place in the same excruciating day:
  

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Final thoughts: The game isn't unplayable, by any means, and I can see how this might appeal to a certain type of player who is taken in by the unique system of locomotion in this game. With that said, even if I were a big fan of the game in this respect, it wouldn't excuse the lack of effort and polish in nearly every other aspect of the production.

Score: 3/10