@Th3solution@colonelkilgore I'm gonna be really boring and say there are just action adventures games. I get a bit sick of all the genres we pigeon hole games into, it gets a bit ridiculous at time.
Life is more fun when you help people succeed, instead of wishing them to fail.
Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt.
@JohnnyShoulder yeah it was meant to be tongue-in-cheek in fairness. Action-adventure is exactly what they are (well I’m assuming that’s what the Indy game will be too).
@JohnnyShoulder Although we were being a bit facetious, it’s an interesting discussion and to your point - in reality, the vast majority of games lately are mixtures of elements inspired by multiple types and subgenres; meaning broad categories really are the simplest way to truly classify them. Things like RPG mechanics, puzzle platforming, cover shooting, survival, bullet hell, sandbox, simulation, etc., etc. Most games have more than one thing going on. Even game labels like horror, or sports, or even action are often inadequate to communicate a game’s real DNA.
Like, in a word, what type of game is Death Stranding, or Shadow of the Colossus or What Remains of Edith Finch or Nier Automata? In an effort to be granular about describing what type of game something is, we do often undersell what it really is.
For example, I just finished Persona 5 (I’ll devote a separate post to my full impressions - I’ll probably put it in the game’s proper thread) and I guess we’d call it a turn-based JRPG. But the game is so much more than that. I’ve heard it called a visual novel, a social sim, and a dungeon crawler. It certainly has all of those elements too. I would even say the persona fusion parts and aspects of some palaces are very much puzzle games. (I’d also call it an endurance marathon, but that’s another topic entirely)
I’ve mentioned it before, but I had to scoff initially when I heard it but Madden is actually a turn based RPG; when you think about it, it’s true.
Games are really complex now. And I love that about modern gaming.
“We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.”
@Th3solution There are RPG elements in most games these days, that does not mean they should be classed as one though. Final Fantasy X
had you partaking in blitzball. Does that means it is a sports game? No, of course not, it is a JRPG. Like I say, it is getting a bit ridiculous these days. Especially when an annual sports game is being classed as turn based RPG. I've heard that before elsewhere, and I thought is was nonsense then and I think it is still nonsense now.
Life is more fun when you help people succeed, instead of wishing them to fail.
Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt.
@JohnnyShoulder Calling Madden a turn based RPG is a stretch, and going with a technical definition rather than the overall feel and setting of the game, which is sports sim.
But how to class Rocket League? Tony Hawks Pro Skater? I mean, I guess these are sports games, kind of, but Tony Hawk is almost as much a rhythm game as a sports game.
RPG is the toughest genre to define for me. Push Square has a list “Best RPGs” and it has games like Bloodborne in it. I guess technically it is an RPG but I never think of it that way. To me RPGs have a lot of character interactions and story, along with the required elements of building up of a character, gathering XP, and leveling up. Yeah, almost every game is an RPG.
@colonelkilgore@Th3solution I reckon classing Tomb Raider and Uncharted as "Indy-likes" works for me (and is far more concise than "Room Full of Old Things Yarn" which is what I've been calling them in my head for years) but it's one of those instances which works for a forum, but wouldn't work in a verbal discussion. Otherwise people would just assume that Lara Croft and Nathan Drake are cutesy pixel art characters developed by three students in a basement, and that their games are probably roguelikes.
On a more serious note, I do agree that the genre lines have become blurred nowadays. It's felt a little like mission creep at times, like when I've been living in Lara's inventory for a while, crafting and managing resources and levelling up her skill tree, and I suddenly get this moment of clarity and think, "Wait a second, I hate doing this in other games, so why am I enjoying this?!"
"We want different things, Crosshair. That doesn't mean that we have to be enemies."
@RogerRoger I really like that observation about a given property carrying a genre or game style that we otherwise wouldn’t care for. The value and importance of the art direction, setting, characters, story, intellectual property, and other intangibles cannot be understated. A recent example for me would be Astrobot’s Playroom. I absolutely adored that game. And I don’t really care for mascot platformers. Was it the pretty graphics, the zippy reload times, and the fancy haptic feedback? Well, sure that’s part of it, but I just love the PlayStation ecosystem and the absolutely fabulous labor of love the game is toward the legacy Sony products. I was so excited to uncover the artifacts and puzzle pieces and to see if I could identify the different classic PS games that the bots were pantomiming. When I played a bit of Mario Odyssey on a friends Switch a few months ago, I felt nothing — no nostalgic grab, no intangible dopamine surge. All this and with really the same (or similar at least) core gameplay. I mean Mario Odyssey was okay I guess, I just wasn’t feeling it. I’m sure the Nintendo fans out there might have the same response to Astrobot’s Playroom.
If they made a high quality Tomb Raider RTS, I’d probably play it 😅, even though I’ve never touched one of those strategy games. Heck, I’ve come close several times to buying Avengers, just because I like the property, even though the online style GAAS approach is a definite turn-off for me usually.
@Th3solution Funny you should make that direct comparison, as I've been playing a lot of Mario platformers on my partner's Switch recently, and having that same hollow feeling (don't get me wrong, they're lovely games, but I felt no connection to any of the characters... well, beyond Captain Toad, of course, but that's understandable because he's perfect in every way). When I was playing Astro's Playroom, I was ostensibly doing exactly the same thing as I'd been doing for my partner but, this time, I was grinning like a kid, and occasionally blinking away tears. Later that evening, my partner asked me about the game, and I basically summed it up by saying, "It was my Mario."
Mobile gaming is another example. I have zero interest in Candy Crush or Temple Run or Angry Birds and, as such, I would say that I am most definitely not a mobile gamer... and yet, I do play games on my phone, because folks like Lara, Sonic and Agent 47 have starred in unique-to-mobile titles which I wanted to try. The gameplay was just as shallow and repetitive as those aforementioned examples, but I stuck with 'em because I felt a connection to their licenced trappings.
In other words, I'd agree with what you're driving at, namely that it often takes a friendly nudge from a familiar face to "get" something. My PS5 profile page is proof enough, when it revealed to me that I'd spent over 250 hours on a competitive online multiplayer shooter and over 600 hours on an MMORPG.
One of us is gonna snap and get Avengers someday soon, methinks (and when I say "snap" I don't mean in an apocalyptic Thanos-esque way). Whoever goes first, we've gotta keep one another posted, as I reckon we'd be coming at it from very similar perspectives!
"We want different things, Crosshair. That doesn't mean that we have to be enemies."
And yeah, I saw Avengers was going to $20, which is fair I think, even if it’s just to play the short but supposedly decent single player campaign. I’m wondering if it will eventually make the jump to F2P or PS Plus though. It’s already gone to PS Now, so maybe Plus is coming soon. 😄
“We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.”
I was deliberating over posting a summary impression piece on here or on the game’s thread, and decided to do it there, but if anyone’s interested in my thoughts after finishing Persona 5, I left them over on the Persona 5 thread. Not a full review, just some thoughts.
In a nutshell — I’m glad it’s over, but I think I’ll miss it too. 🤔
“We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.”
I was deliberating over posting a summary impression piece on here or on the game’s thread, and decided to do it there, but if anyone’s interested in my thoughts after finishing Persona 5, I left them over on the Persona 5 thread. Not a full review, just some thoughts.
In a nutshell — I’m glad it’s over, but I think I’ll miss it too. 🤔
If there is a desire, no one will bother to return
I beat The Pedestrian this evening. Bought that game on the back of @nessisonet' s recommending it.
Like most I really dug the ending. If you ask me, they might have stretched that out some more. That was amazing.
I don't think the game did anything that really blew my mind, but it was such a well crafted and enjoyable platformer. The devs really have a feel for the genre. I hope we're seeing more of The Pedestrian, or at least more by this studio in the near future.
Also, this game looks amazing too. Just proceeding through the city was a reward of its own.
If you're a puzzler, try this one out!
(PS I also remember complaining about the Dual sense features being utilized. I don't know if I was just plain wrong, or if the last part of the game actually makes better use of the controller, but it did really add something.)
@Kidfried Yeah, they could have stretched the final section out for a whole other game. I honestly felt that it was one of the tightest experiences I’ve played in a long time though and I’m glad I spent my money on it.
@colonelkilgore Hey man! I just beat MGS3: Snake Eater over the weekend. My goodness, my goodness what a game. A timeless piece of art, masterful in every single way. I remember discussing it with you but I can't remember if it's your first playthrough through the series. This was my first time ever playing this game and at the end it became a top 5 of all time taking the spot of the Red Dead Redemption series. I. Love. This. Game. Anything I wanna talk about is spoilers so I'll be waiting on you my friend! I just started the first hour of MGS4, and it went up from top 5 to top 3, moving God of War to number 4. Even though I can't talk about my favorite story beats, I can share with you probably my favorite part of the game, the main theme. Give a listen and tell me what you think! Or maybe you heard it before and it'll be a wave of nostalgia.
@TraCuz- You've made me wanna replay the entire saga, by the way. I still remember exactly how I felt after the credits of each one. Truly the "magic" of gaming.
So glad you enjoyed it, and here's to an equal or greater reaction to MGS4.
"We want different things, Crosshair. That doesn't mean that we have to be enemies."
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