@Kidfried It’s specifically the run and gun levels that drag it down for me. I loved the game but those levels felt cobbled together, as if they threw together frustrating mechanics to see what stuck. It’s more that when I finished those levels I reacted with ‘thank f*ck it’s over’ rather than ‘wow I’m so proud of myself’. Although I take back what I said about Hollow Knight, I’ve been doing some optional content that is... not fun.
@Kidfried Given that we're all folks who understand the nature of games development, then sure, I think you'll find a lot of support for that opinion around here (myself included).
It's the people who just see a box and a disc who'll have problems with a higher price.
"We want different things, Crosshair. That doesn't mean that we have to be enemies."
@RogerRoger The problem more lies in 70 dollars, euros and pounds just not being the same price. 70 dollars, sure I’d pay that but 70 pounds is a premium product. For games to be that price and still include lootboxes, bugs or just not be very good? That’s a lot of money down the drain. Even more games will slip into obscurity now as you’ll only pay for the big exclusives. This is where services like Game Pass will scoop up smaller games that wouldn’t get a look in otherwise.
Cuphead is challenging, for sure, but not a single moment of it felt unfair to me. Even the Run n Gun levels felt well-designed for speed running and the like.
And yeah, you can definitely tailor the experience to make it easier or harder on yourself.
To be honest, I wouldn't characterize any of the games listed as being overly difficult. I didn't particularly enjoy HLD, but that wasn't because of the difficulty.
Hollow Knight's DLC content gets a little ridiculous, though, I'll admit.
@nessisonett I agree that Sony need to be careful that the pricing doesn’t ruin the indie developers, especially after they’ve been championing the smaller studios.
They really ought to have a specific area on their online store for such games to help highlight them but that also causes issues that they become gatekeepers and where is the line drawn for what is”indie”?
@Ralizah The Hollow Knight DLC is tough but The Grimm Troupe is fair I thought (easy to say as I beat it) and the Path of Pain is something else. The Pantheons were too much for me but the devs have said a lot of that was designed to challenge the best players who had asked for such a thing.
I think that’s quite cool but as someone who likes to get everything out of the games they play, it was a little frustrating. It also meant my final days with the game we’re struggling and failing with the Pantheons which slightly tarnishes my memory of the game.
I can't see i see a problem with the idea. Actually, I think it's a bit odd that most retail games tend to be about the same price. Some are such different products and the amount of resources required can vary hugely, as well as the quality of the experience.
You get luxury goods and value goods in plenty of other markets.
Plus if you can't afford or don't want to pay full price for the game just wait until price drops. No one is forcing anyone to buy a game at day 1. I've already got Demon Souls for 5 quid less than the RRP and it is not even out yet.
Life is more fun when you help people succeed, instead of wishing them to fail.
Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt.
@nessisonett I do see your point, but I'm afraid I agree with @JohnnyShoulder on this one; only hardcore fans and whales buy things at launch full whack nowadays. Most people wait for sales, or shop online where retailers already shave ten to twenty quid off the RRP during a release window.
It might actually benefit high street retailers and smaller businesses, because I'm sure many will seek them out once they realise that digital storefronts are inflexible with their pricing.
Your lootbox point is a separate issue, one that should be strictly regulated or eliminated entirely.
As for a game's quality at launch, that's highly subjective. Some people don't mind poor technical performance if they're getting to play as a certain character, or will rate a game 10/10 simply because it has great music. This is where reviews (both user-generated and professional) play a part, and help inform individuals whether a game will be worth its asking price. Customer agency is key, otherwise every game would have Mass Effect 3 lawsuits filed against it by cheapskates chancing their arm.
"We want different things, Crosshair. That doesn't mean that we have to be enemies."
@RogerRoger I started off this gen with not a great deal of disposable income, so after saving most of it up for the PS4 I had to either wait prices to come down drastically or play the trading game. I can remember waiting a couple of months for The Last of Us Remastered to be available in my local CEX, as I had some credit from trading my 360 in. I remember the day I finally got as it felt like getting it the day it had released.
People will always manage to find a way to get hold of games somehow. Sometimes that may mean having a bit more patience or trading some old stuff on.
Life is more fun when you help people succeed, instead of wishing them to fail.
Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt.
@JohnnyShoulder Saving up for things can definitely make them feel more special. Granted, it can be a shame to feel like you're missing out at launch (especially when you're part of a community like PushSquare, and can see everybody else talking about things you can't play yet) but it's not like there's a shortage of games out there and, in the age of the post-release patch, things are only gonna be more stable, and therefore more enjoyable, at a later date.
That sounds like a bit of a lecture, and I apologise to anybody passing through who reads it that way, especially since I can get pretty excited about certain games and franchises, and used to pre-order things all the time. I get that everybody has different thresholds for that kinda stuff, but I also think that 2020 has put a lot of things in perspective for many.
Which is why I'm not gonna buy a PlayStation5 until I need one. I'm gonna clear my backlog first.
"We want different things, Crosshair. That doesn't mean that we have to be enemies."
@JohnnyShoulder I remember saving up for The Last of Us Remastered too, haha. Was it your first game for the system or not? Mine was Rayman Legends. It was a relatively cheap game, I remember it being 35 or something, so it was the only game I could buy at the moment, or else I had to save up for another month.
Gaming is not a super cheap hobby or anything, but there are definitely enough ways to keep it relatively affordable. I practically had no income a few years ago, so I couldn't play The Witcher 3 at launch. I waited until the GOTY edition was on sale for about fifteen or so euro. I didn't need to buy new games the next 6 months. So it doesn't have to be a hobby for the elite, as long as there are second hand games and good deals.
@Kidfried I think my first PS4 game was Journey and then that Transformers Platinum game cause they were on PS Plus. My brother then bought PES and we spent loads of time playing local multiplayer. I then picked up Final Fantasy X/X-2 so I guess my first ‘proper’ PS4 games would have been when my uncle gave me Uncharted 4!
@Kidfried My first game came with the console, Infamous Second Son. Then my mate at work lent me Killzone Shadowfall shortly afterwards. I probably didn't spend much on games as I traded as I went along, maybe the odd lower priced title or something like that off PSN. Child of Light was an early highlight, great little game.
@RogerRoger Don't worry, you don't come across as handing out a lecture. Hopefully some peeps out there will find our ramblings somewhat useful if they are are in a similar position.
@Arugula I mean, my 3DS and Wii U had way better libraries due to BC. I’d go as far as to say that the 3DS has the greatest library of any console due to it having DS games as well. The PS2 and fat PS3 had it as well. The PS4 didn’t have it and look how many remasters we got of PS3 games that really weren’t hugely necessary. With how digital people’s libraries have become, it makes sense that BC would be on people’s mind. It’s one thing if your console can’t read old discs, it’s another if you have to buy the same game twice on your same digital account.
This one might be unpopular but I didn’t really like horizon zero dawn the characters didn’t do much to the story IMO the story was weak and the gameplay I thought was a little dull I hope these issues are fixed in the sequel but I’m not holding my breath
@Arugula Interesting point - I'll be honest that the whole next gen update etc. is something I don't really understand as its all based on what different companies had done. If every company had decided to charge for an upgrade then we would all accept it. If every company had said you get it for free, we would have accepted it. Previous gens, there were a lot of early gen releases that were cross platform - they needed to be to be commercially viable.
This gen, different companies have different interests so that depends on how they are treating it. For say, CyberPunk 2077 they are launching it right at the time that next gen is going live. They want people to buy it and play so it makes complete sense to offer a next gen upgrade free because it means I'll buy my copy and play it on PS5 (or PC but that's another matter!).
Since previous gen games are capable to be played on next gen hardware - which is a first, it is now down to whether performance matters that much to you. For me - not really, very few games don't run well on PS4. I would actually rather get a full remake then pay for a basic graphical update.
As for B/C, this is a big deal for me and I think game companies have largely listened. If my digital PS4 library stayed on PS4 then I'd be bummed and have less allegiance to the console however it is in Sony's interest to make me feel like my library matters so no brainer. I'd love PS1, PS2 and PS3 games too but I have a feeling they'll be directed to PS Now.
Now I may be an idiot, but there's one thing I am not sir, and that sir, is an idiot
@Arugula There is definitely a lot of entitlement. Gamers are some of the most spoiled consumers, but don't let them hear you say that.
In the last 20 years the price of fruit (something that every human being needs) has increased by 50%. Fruit hasn't gotten more healthy since, it doesn't look better and you won't get any additional support for your fruit after you buy it.
In the last 20 years the price of games (something not every human being needs) has increased by 0%. Games have gotten longer since, they look better and take more effort to make, and often a game will receive additional support, like free updates in AC.
But hey, there come the gamers shouting ANTI-CONSUMER, SONY IS EVIL, while... you all know where I'm getting at. Gaming hasn't gotten more expensive in the last 20 years, but the work of game developers has gotten more stressful. If anyone wants to be angry, be angry about that instead.
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