Topic: The TV Show Thread

@LtSarge
I would personally recommend Penny Dreadful. Though I doubt a week would be long enough to finish it.

@PegasusActual93 Oh wow, I looked it up on there and it actually looks quite interesting! Can't believe I haven't heard of it before. Even if I don't have enough time to watch through it, I'll definitely add it to my watchlist. Thanks for the recommendation!

Glad I gave TLOU another shot, that episode finally proved why the show exists. While I’m sure the deviations will be controversial, for me it was a million times better than the equivalent in the game.

@LN78
It's the same people who had a meltdown because Ellie was in a same sex relationship in the second game even though it was completely clear in the first game she was especially in the DLC. In the first game Bill explicitly told Joel that Frank was his partner. It's their fault they don't pay attention.

@LN78 I’ll be curious your take on Episode 3. Of course the IGN gamer dude reactions are ridiculous and can be ignored, but I continue to be slightly disappointed by the show in general. Not for the reasons that the IGN crowd are, mind you, but just other unmet expectations. It’s not a bad show. In fact it’s quite good. But if it was a little off before, now it’s even more off. Instead of The Lord of the Rings it’s heading toward The Hobbit, if you catch my drift.

If you’ve seen the comments over on IGN (I’m not going to take my chances and look over there for sake of my own sanity) and elsewhere then you know the basics of this episode, and although the storyline is basically intact, the liberties taken with the plot are pushing it, imho. I liked this episode if it were it’s own standalone thing, but not necessarily in the context of the retelling of TLoU.

I do agree with @nessisonett that the story in the TV show would not have been a very good game story, and as ness says it gives the TV show a reason to exist I suppose. Playing a game based on episode 3 wouldn’t work very well, at least in the context of a survival horror game, so if this storyline was Druckmann‘s intent I can see why he cut this part of the story out of the game. I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt that’s why this version wasn’t portrayed this way in the game. Nevertheless, it’s got me thinking what else going forward will be sacrificed in the name of making it TV-friendly. Most of Part I should be smooth sailing, and I can’t imagine they change the ending, which is my favorite part… actually one of my favorite endings in all of gaming, but I do think Part II’s story is ripe for a lot of changes when adapted to TV, seeing what they did in this episode. For good or ill, I think any retelling of the second game will end up in a lot of retcons like this episode has.

I haven’t seen episode 3 yet (this evening can’t come quick enough) but I had heard prior to episode 1 even being aired that episode 3 was the first truly outstanding instalment.

As far as the elaboration on the source material that I’ve seen thus far (in eps 1 & 2) it has only served to greatly enhance the viewing experience.

@LN78 You’ll probably end up enjoying it more without the background hype, to be honest. With proper expectations it’ll end up being a pleasant surprise.

And to be clear, the addition of added story content to enhance an already slim plot isn’t necessarily issue for me, rather other changes. (Being vague to avoid spoilers… which that should tell you enough right there that there now exists “spoilers” in a show for which you know the story backward and forwards).

@LN78 Yeah, the fact that Ellie accidentally kills Joel in this episode and Bill becomes her new father figure for the rest of the journey is just a ludicrous deviation from game’s plot. Druckmann just loves to drop surprises. 😉

@Jimmer-jammer Agreed. I remember that being a weak point for you and I specifically paid attention in Epi 3 and it was much better. Especially how music was used not only to heighten the emotion response to the tragic parts but also the whole piano sequence which tied into the closing scene of the cassette tape in the car.

Also, to be fair to the show since I’ve been pretty critical, shout out to the aging and deaging visual effects. Quite well done.

@Jimmer-jammer I think those are astute thoughts about the respective portrayals of Ellie and Frank, although I didn’t initially get that vibe, at least not with the Ellie scene. Curious that she didn’t tell Joel about the interaction. I saw it as more of a curious thing where Joel is already showing to be so overprotective and strict with her that she’s being a teenager and living on the edge, with a little bit of anger toward Tess’s recent death and her recent attack and 2nd bite from the infected.

But it does work well as a juxtaposition with Frank personality. The controversy in my mind was obviously the double suicide. I can see how that’s maybe a better TV outcome, as it ramps up the drama… but even then I’m not sure. I think it may have been more telling to see a bitter, hardened, distraught Bill alive and grumpy again and let Ellie meet Bill. Then play off that interaction as a way to further form Ellie’s evolving state of mind about this world she’s living in and ultimately set to be the savior for. To simply read the suicide note and never see the bodies, it cheapens the effect on Ellie, I think, despite it making for a more powerful effect on the viewer. Since Bill and Frank will never be a part of the story again, it’s more important to cultivate the effect of the world on Ellie and Joel. A mad and miserable Bill makes for a more lasting impression on young Ellie. You see her in the show immediately just giddy with taking all of Bill’s loot and his car, rather than emotionally wrought by watching a man fall apart from the tragedy of the apocalyptic world. Granted, she’s got plenty of events and people coming up to serve that purpose, but still.

And on the subject I don’t remember if the game said why Frank committed suicide. He hung himself, right, but was it because of some unrelated neurological disorder? It’s been so long since I played the first game, but I thought he was either a casualty of the infection or had gone mad or depressed at the helpless state of the world. Perhaps I just assumed and I can’t remember if Bill ever says why he died.

I kinda feel mixed about episode 3. It was a good episode, and I liked the story arc, but I'm a bit sad we didn't get to see Bill and Ellie interact. I also don't think they needed had to have Bill to spell out his plans. Discovering it through the letter would've been enough. But I get the feeling that they don't think the audience is smart enough. The subtle story telling from the game is nowhere to be seen in the show and that's unfortunate.

I do like that we get to see more background story for some of the characters. But that also makes it feel like a complementary show to the game, instead of something that is its own show. I have played the game several times, but I can understand that the way these episodes are told may be a bit weird if you don't know the game.

Bella's acting also wasn't anything special I feel like, she was a lot better in the first episode. The one liners worked for in-game banter, but they can sort of feel out of place in the show. It's a bit much, I feel like it's most of the interaction between Joel and Ellie.

It also felt weird to see them walking around in the countryside. It made me realise that all of the game took place in towns and cities to funnel the gameplay, and also prevent the levels from becoming too big. So I associate TLOU more with dense post apocalyptic cities rather than the open countryside, that opening scene with Joel and Ellie felt more like something out of The Walking Dead.

@Jimmer-jammer don't know how much "slow" you can tolerate but I highly recommend Station Eleven. Slow and a tad quirky but very rewarding. Plus it's only like a 10 episode mini series I believe.

Also if you're at all a sports fan you can't miss Winning Time. I love the Lakers so I'm definitely biased here but even my daughter, who knows nothing about basketball, loves the show.

@Octane really agree with you on all fronts there.

@Th3solution I'm definitely blaming the b-movie look on the lack of a softer film-grainy look. Like the FX in my mind are actually quite good, they just look too crystal clear and sharp. It looks like cosplay. The whole show does. It's why cosplay looks like cosplay. When things look too true to life, it looks fake.

I've come to pretty much accept everyone's performances except Ramsey. And at this point I don't think it's gonna happen. Really a bummer honestly. Definitely wrong to doubt Offerman. Just didn't think I could shake the image of W Earl Brown but Offerman was really good. Even Pascal is admittedly a capable Joel. Still think they could do better but he works. This Ellie though. Sigh.

@zupertramp Yeah maybe the film grain is it. I figured it was the 4K, but maybe we could still have 4K if there was more film grain.

And I’m actually coming around on Ramsey, to be honest. I agree on Bill and Joel, but Ramsey has given me the essence of Ellie, so far I think. The real challenging parts of her performance haven’t started yet though. So far it’s just the annoying mysterious teenager role. The hard part will be selling her complex relationship with Joel, which definitely isn’t there yet but isn’t really supposed to be at this stage of the story. And Part 2 of course — that’s where she’ll really have to show her acting chops.

@Th3solution yeah thinking ahead I'm having trouble buying her and more importantly her complex relationship with Joel as you mention. Like someone else said she's kinda okay with just the one liners but the more she talks the less she's believably Ellie imo. And then yeah, once we get into part 2 territory I suspect the imitation will wear really thin. But I mean, that's me and you wouldn't be the first I've heard of digging Ramsey's performance thus far.

Another thing that is really grating for me, and this has nothing to do with the actress, but the decision to really drive home the significance of her knife. Like it's approaching Han Solo dice levels at this point. So my hats off to them for killing what could have just been an Easter egg style nod by turning it into some unnecessary object for Joel and Ellie to bond over.

Also don't think I made it clear enough in all my complaining that I did enjoy the third episode. Offerman just straight up works better as this particular Bill. And while I lament that some things now didn't happen with this Bill, I appreciated this more fleshed out take on things.

I just got around to watch the first episode of the Last of Us adaptation myself. Feel like I have deffo been hurt by all the hyperbole surrounding this, I thought this opening episode was fine but people online made it sound like it would be some kind of life altering experience.

The episode deviated just enough to justify its existence for me. My biggest confusion about this adaptation was like why it even existed if it was just going to be a beat for beat recreation of the game. Like sure, people who refuse to play videogames for whatever reason may get to experience this story that they wouldn't have otherwise, but for basically anyone else a retread would have seemed absolutely pointless to me given the quality of the game itself. But this finds a good middle ground I think, in that it doesn't deviate so far it'll drive the purists mad, but isn't just a retread which just always end up feeling like cheap fan film to me when they do that.

I feel like they did a good job here adding extra texture and dimension to everything, I guess in a way you are more limited with a game as you are always having to push towards the next gameplay segment (unless you are like a Yakuza game or a Kojima game I guess), but here they can spend as much time on a narrative beat as they want, within reason. And aren't forced to break the immersion with a bunch of magically placed knee hill walls right as the shooting starts, as Ellie starts walking in front of the enemies seemingly completely invisible to them.

Time will tell on these things, though. I have no idea if that might change in the coming episodes, this is all just based on the first episode. You could argue narrative is a little on the light side in the game, more focused on characters and the kind of environmental storytelling I feel only really works in games. And just generally sometimes a story already gives you exactly as much as you need, and trying to expand on those beats only robs those beats of their impact in the end. But maybe by the end I’ll have much greater appreciation for the Last of Us, a franchise I think I admire more than I necessarily like. I'm certainly glad I don't need to get Joel through any crappy stealth sections while watching this, that is for sure.

@Pizzamorg Interesting thoughts and many which I agree with.

As I was reading your comment I actually thought about all game sales that are happening now as the HBO crowd suddenly has interest to play the game and so many people will end up playing the game after watching the show, which is the complete opposite for all of us. I really wonder what the reaction, expectations, and experience will be like for those people. I’d be very interested to see their review of the game after just knowing the show. I imagine a lot of “This isn’t the way it happened, where’s all the missing back story! That’s not the way Ellie acts! Why is there so much sneaking around and shooting interrupting the story!” Etc, etc. 😂

Yeah it's funny because id argue knowledge of the games enhanced the experience, at least in that first ep, as we could see where the show zagged and zigged, what was changed or fleshed out and remark on those things. but I'm not convinced it'll work in the other direction. It takes about half of the first episode to get us basically to where Last of Us starts, for example. We all still think that opening is incredibly effective, even the old version with the PS4 art style (which I actually prefer but I assume that's a controversial topic for another time), but will someone from the TV show wonder where the rest of it is? I wonder if that'll be alienating more than anything else.

I'd also argue, maybe controversial, but the worst part of the Last of Us was playing it lol I suffered through so many boring ladder puzzles and infuriating stealth sections because I wanted to experience the next environment or development in Joel and Ellie's story. But now you don't have to do that any more, because this TV show exists.

@Pizzamorg Puzzles in games is something people will probably be divided on. I’m
playing The Pathless and it’s got this wonderful free roaming world with super smooth kinetic traversal with awesome sense of speed, a little bit like Spider-Man. But interspersed are puzzles of varying degrees of difficulty that you have to do to progress. I quite like them. And the second boss was a bit of a puzzle boss too.
And I did think to myself as I really struggled with a tough puzzle last night and almost looked it up online, “These puzzles are ruining this great experience.” But then when I figured it out it was really satisfying.

In the case of TLoU, I don’t think the puzzles were particularly difficult, as I recall. So it may be why you disliked them since there wasn’t that “Aha!” moment of satisfaction by pulling a ladder or board to the required place.
The second game did away with a lot of that, so your complaint was likely expressed by many. And despite liking the first game better, I do think the gameplay for the second game is better.

Regardless, I definitely think some of the TV show watchers are in for a rude awakening when they see how lean the story is in the game, comparatively speaking, and replaced with an escort mission with a bunch of stealth, exploration, and resource management.

Incidentally, while I’m watching the show I find myself looking around on the set as Joel and Ellie mill about, hoping I’ll be the first to find a comic or some bandages. A small part coming up that you haven’t seen yet in the show is an homage to the exploratory raiding of cabinets and shelves that you do in the game, but it’s brief compared to the constant searching you do in the game. 😅