Topic: The Movie Thread

@ralphdibny Yeah, I think there is a 2.5-3 hour cut of this movie that works and I think the studio should have accepted that they had not done the ground work for a brisk 2 hour movie.

I think you could shave the epilogue, some of the flashback lengths of the amazonians. Possibly a few character scenes here and there but honestly the character development is what makes this movie in a lot of ways - I understand who they all are, why they are doing what they are doing and how the conclusion works.

@Rudy_Manchego yeah that's true, it's hard to say anything should be cut because if you are enthusiastic enough then you would be willing to sit through it for 4 hours. I was never confused throughout the movie and I was never bored. It didn't take nearly as much mental gymnastics to make sense as I thought even the ultimate cut of BvS does, even though that film is miles better than its theatrical cut.

@Jimmer-jammer glad you enjoyed it! I certainly think he conveyed the Gods Among Men aspect successfully. I'm not sure if I would say it's better than the theatrical cut but it's definitely different and longer. I suspect that I will be alone in that opinion though haha. I think the TC was better than I thought it would be and this version was about as good as I thought it would be.

I liked that there was less stupid Batman moments than there were in the original but even with the removal of certain lines, Affleck still has that stupid bemused look on his face. Luckily these scenes become diluted by the 2-3 hours of extra/alternate footage so it doesn't stick out nearly as badly as it does in the original film.

I loved the addition of a certain dream sequence though! I'd like to see a proper sequel and enjoy it for what it is. The bar was set too high with Man of Steel so for me at least, I really don't think any other film in this continuity is going to top that.

@ralphdibny @Jimmer-jammer It's interesting about Batman in that he actually has some of the least screen time. By the time of the Snyder Cut, Aquaman, Wonderwoman and Superman all had solo films as well as crossovers. As the character that is there to unite the Justice League, he has a quite short character arc. He is grumpy in one, then hopeful in the other. It's not badly done, but boy would a Batman film in between have been awesome. I really think after MOS or even BVS they need to wait till Aquaman, WW, at Batman and Flash film had been done before Justice League.

Apparently Avatar has retaken the highest grossing theatrical release from Avengers: Endgame after China re-released it in theaters.

It was $7 Million behind Endgame, but it's currently made $33 Million since the re-release.

The whole ending sequence of Lex breaking out of Arkham and meeting with Deathstroke, and Slade learning of Bruce's identity was such a TEASE

I really wish we got that movie at the very least since it sucks that Superman and Wonder Woman got their solo outings, but not the entire Trinity

Blown away by how much better the Snyder Cut was. I’m in awe. 4 hours flew by and it just had so much more exposition and background, while removing the more egregious Whedonisms. The new soundtrack is fantastic and I’m just really upset that we’ll never see the results of the incredible teases towards the end. At least we got a whole lot more Cyborg, I can completely understand why Ray Fisher is that pissed.

@Jimmer-jammer Of all the left over stuff from Snyder's version of the DCEU I do think Affleck as Batman has probably the strongest chance of coming back given he's already supposed to be in Flash, but if this is really the last we're seeing of him in a sizable capacity I'm at least glad he got to interact with Leto's Joker since that scene is what I WISHED Leto's performance was like in Suicide Squad

@TheFrenchiestFry His appearance is also a lot better. Glad the dreadful face tattoos weren’t back.

@nessisonett The one thing I was worried would happen would be that his Joker performance would try to ape Ledger but the actual scene itself was a pretty mature conversation on the dichotomy between Batman and the Joker and how they deal with loss

It felt very obviously tacked on given it wasn't meant to be there originally but it's a way better Knightmare scene than the BvS one imo

@TheFrenchiestFry @nessisonett @Jimmer-jammer @Rudy_Manchego @ralphdibny

Pretty much lost track of who to tag regarding JL so apologies if I added someone who wasn't part of convo or neglected to add someone who was. I've been steering clear of forum until I watched and read through a dozen posts fairly quickly. Gave me a few things to think about, like Batman's arc over the course of previous BvS and this film.

So I'll start by saying I haven't seen theatrical cut. After Suicide Squad I really lost interest in DC's live action cinematic endeavors. When news of Snyder Cut came along, I thought maybe this was a lucky break since I'd be seeing it fresh for the first time. But now that I've seen it I realize I have nothing to compare it to so I feel somewhat at a disadvantage there.

Anyway just gonna give a spoiler laden list of likes and dislikes. Need to ruminate for awhile before forming a final opinion. So here goes:

That's all that comes to mind at the moment. I really think it was a mistake not to flesh out cyborg's origin story on its own. (Pun intended?) There's really a compelling story there about successful/dysfunctional families, grief and the inability to let go, regret, what makes us who we are... Add to this the motherbox connection and the fact that he's a black superhero and I can't for the life of me figure out why we couldn't introduce him separately and give him the appropriate amount of room for a real arc. But whatever.

I actually thought Cyborg was probably one of the best parts of the movie

It became apparent super early on that a lot of his background and development was left on the cutting room floor and the dynamic he had with his father, essentially shunning him for most of the movie for not being there when the accident happened was actually pretty powerful and added a level of sympathy to his character that made him way more nuanced than how flat he was in the theatrical version

I also don't think the line "f*ck the world" was really that edgy when taking into context how much of his former life he had basically lost in being converted to a form he views as monstrous and essentially outcasting him from the greater society

Cyborg is ultimately a character I always thought didn't really have enough material outside his origin to carry a solo film, so I'm glad they used Justice League as a jumping off point for the character (when that was the plan at that point) because I do think he works far better as part of ensembles whether it be Teen Titans or Justice League-related

@TheFrenchiestFry i think there's more to cyborg than I'm rich and my parents were murdered. Tbf.

And there's plenty of other contemporary issues to broach in a standalone cyborg film. Especially when they are a black family of considerable wealth and intelligence... as opposed to owning a barber shop or something. (or insert some other common stereotypical depiction here)

And i think he should have been allowed to work through his bitterness in his own film is all. You can't be in a movie with Batman and somehow be more edgy than the king of edgelords imo.

@zupertramp good to read a more moderate opinion of the film like my own even if we liked and disliked a few different things to eachother. I sort of ducked out of this convo because I didn't want to dampen the obvious enthusiasm with excessive reason or negativity because if anyone loves this movie then I think it's a good thing.

That fight scene between the JL and Superman was in the original but slightly different, I didn't mention it in my thoughts because it wasn't an addition per say. But I do like it too and Superman's eye moving to the side as The Flash runs in super speed is one of my favourite bits. Generally I think the flash is a lot more likable in the original for some reason, I came out of that film surprised that I liked him whereas I came out of this version fairly nonplussed about him. I weren't that excited for him originally mainly because I was already a fan of the Flash actor from TV, I've only seen one other film with Ezra Miller called fantastic beasts and where to find them which was trash and he was trash in it and finally I just thought, we already have a young brown haired flash in a moderately amusing show, why not go in a different direction for the film? Instead of giving us DCs answer to spider man. An unfortunate comparison that is aparently going to keep on giving considering Flashpoint and Spider-Man: No Way Home are sounding eerily similar based on the PR.

Cyborg is not a character I can get really excited about in this film either. I mean he's OK but again, the TV cyborg from Doom Patrol is way better even if his head piece looks a bit weird. One of the things that came out about Ray Fisher's beef with Whedon/WB Film management was that they wanted him to play Cyborg like Quasimodo as well which is weird because he is way more like Quasimodo in the Snyder version with his weird alien walk and even the caped hunchback look in the dream sequence. There's probably more to that comment than I can understand though, I read an explanation of its racial implication but I wasn't familiar with the person/character referred to in the explanation so it was a bit lost on me.

Seeing "Miles Dyson" in anything is always a treat though! He also had a role in Smallville. I read an interview with him where he reckons he only got asked to play a cyborgs dad because of his role in the similarly themed Terminator 2.

Gotta love Aquaman though 😂, both original and Momoa-fied. Again he's probably a bit more likable in the Whedon cut because of the extra funny scenes they shot for him. Totally agree with you on Alfred's hovering, totally butlerific! Conversely though, I could see Leto's Joker return in this form instead of his Suicide Squad portrayal. It may not be remarkable but it wasn't downright annoying, for me at least. I also enjoyed the Bruce-Diana connection.

@ralphdibny yeah i should reiterate these were just some of my immediate-right-after-the-movie thoughts. A list that's definitely incomplete and one that could easily evolve.

And to be fair... Leto's Joker was better here by a country mile but I still find him lacking or corny or something. And I actually really like Leto. But between Ezra Miller's Flash (who could have easily wandered off the set of Sia's Music) and Leto's Joker, I take back any criticism I ever made of Affleck or Gadot. And yeah it was your comment I saw about Alfred being more butler-y, going as far as to call Clark Master Kent. Loved it.

Someone mentioned how Michael Caine left some big shoes to fill but Jeremy Irons does a fairly good job.

And I'll just say, for the sake of agreement, Momoa makes Aquaman cooler than I thought possible.

Not sure if some of those were even really spoilers but ah well.

Edit: also yes, if anyone unambiguously loves this movie more power to them. It was far from the trash heap it could have been but more than that, obviously different things work for different people and I'm happy for anyone that came out thoroughly entertained. It's never my intention to rain on that.

@zupertramp yeah same with mine but also with having had no sleep before watching it 😅. I didn't mean to imply you were being overly negative or anything by the way, I was just saying the reception had been mostly positive so far and I personally didn't want to continue being a downer because I'd probably written all the opinions I had anyway. I'm always interested to read more thoughts on the movie, good or bad!

I've always thought of Aquaman more like Thor and had they not gone down the surfer bro interpretation and had Chris Hemsworth not already played Thor then he probably would have been a decent Aquaman. I think people wonder how water powers could work on land but there is plenty of water around to manipulate with the water telekinesis thing he has (I think he has that? Might just be aqualad and Mera 🤷‍♂️) just not enough to swim in. I probably wouldn't want to talk to fish though, especially as I'm about to dig in to a cod and chips

I also really like Leto in a lot of other films - American Psycho, Fight Club, Blade Runner 2049 etc

no worries at all.

also neglected to mention how much I really dig Henry Cavill as Supes. Just spot on for me.

So, while the Snydercut was a significant improvement over the Whedon hack-job, I still felt it was disappointing. The tone was loads better but still, a lot of the dialogue was bloody awful and just didn't seem to fit. The Flash is still abhorrent. Aquaman was better this time but still not good. The action scenes were very basic for the most part... I probably sound harsh because I know it has had a great reaction but it just didn't work for me. I'm a massive DC fan (as I am Marvel) and while it was no doubt better, it doesn't do those characters or their history 'justice' imho.

Still, the epilogue was intriguing and if they ever decided to give Snyder another 300 million, I'd love to see how they get to that point... and how it proceeds from there.

I watched Mortal Kombat: Scorpion's Revenge last night. It was pretty good. Lot's of gore and deep sounds when someone gets or it goes into x-ray mode to show bones breaking. It told a good story that wasn't hindered by being a fighting game that retcons everyone every game and really felt like Mortal Kombat. A good time with a decent story and lots of good fights packed in.

@Jimmer-jammer can't argue with that... regardless of my thoughts on the film the guy (Snyder) was treated like absolute garbage and I love an underdog story.

Maybe they should make a movie about Zach Snyders experiences working on DC movies.

@Jaz007 that's a decent film! It's pretty much in line with the DC animated films in terms of style. I'm guessing they had some crossover between the people who worked on it. I'd love to see some more animated Mortal Kombat movies in that same continuity