I thought MoS was fine but its structure was too reliant on the flashback sequences, Lois and Clark barely had any believable chemistry and the first act felt more like a super condensed episode of Smallville as opposed to natural buildup to Clark learning of his destiny
I also think the third act's ramifications were honestly way too big for what was meant to be an origin movie where Superman is fully adjusted to being a hero yet. They kind of blew their load off imo
It’s pretty surreal to see Glenn from The Walking Dead nominated for an Oscar. Then again, he was one of the few bright spots in a show that I really did not like.
@JohnnyShoulder@TheFrenchiestFry That's fair. It's like they didn't want an origin story movie but still peppered the film with origin story stuff, which basically made it an uneven, disjointed origin story instead. Also fair on the final act criticism. If you mean what I think.
@nessisonett i enjoyed the show for a time, and I think there's plenty of talent there, but i think it lost some steam somewhere along the way. I think some of it, for me, was it started out a story about a man trying to lead his family through this post apocalyptic hell but they slowly began trying to make an ensemble thing work and it was too much to juggle. Started moving soap opera speed with the same quality of writing.
Then again you're perfectly within your right to not like it at all, too. It's not for everyone.
But back to Steven Yeun... my daughter is like in love with him so I don't associate him with Glenn as much as I used to. He was good in Minari though. As was whoever plays the grandmother.
PSN: frownonfun
Switch: SW-5109-6573-1900 (Pops)
"One of the unloveliest and least enlightening aspects of contemporary discourse is the tendency to presume that whatever one disagrees with must be very simple—not only simple, but also simply wrong." - Elizabeth Bruenig
I just watched Man of Steel again in preparation for the Snyder Cut. I just love this movie so much, even with the few silly bits it has. I'll put what I love as a list in spoiler tags just in case anyone hasn't seen it:
1. Krypton - this whole sequence is brilliant, seeing the fauna and architecture, the politics, the people. I loved it!
2. Zod - Michael Shannon is just brilliant in this movie, he's my favourite character in the whole film. He chews the scenery in every shot and it's totally believable. The characters conviction is both bred and learned and that really comes across in his portrayal.
3. Jor El - I am really not a fan of Russel Crowe, I think he's over rated and he always comes across as smug without the accomplishment to have earned it. But... he is good in this movie, maybe because he's not in it so much and when he is in it he just has really bad ass scenes. His characters fighting style is really notable and there's a particular 1-2 punch used against Zod that stands out.
4. The Tornado Scene - I know I've bagged on this scene for being stupid but it still almost has me in tears. I think it's stupid because it's frustrating yet I still get the effect of its tragedy.
5. The Kryptonian Armour/Space Suits - These just look amazing when the visor is opaque. They look bad ass, scary and just totally alien. They work to separate the very human looking Kryptonians from actual humans.
6. "You think you can threaten my mother?!" - I just can't get enough of this scene. It's probably the reaction any son would have if their mum was in peril, unless of course they didn't like their mum or didn't have one for non-tragic reasons. It's uncharacteristically violent but justifiable by its context.
7. The Signal Hijack/Invasion Threat - I just love this sequence, I love the way the threat is given and how it's depicted. The ominous garbled video stream of the Kryptonians in their armour/space suits makes them look even more alien. I could name a number of films that depict an alien invasion or first contact in realistic ways but the aspect of realism they focus on always differs. This is completely different to something like District 9 or Arrival but is no less realistic.
8. The Kryptonians fighting - I love it when Faora punches the humans in sequence. It's so fast you can't see her move from one target to the next but it just looks amazing.
9. The Film Grain - it's amazing that a movie like this was shot on film, it looks great. It helps blend the CGI into the practical aspects.
10. Zod...Again - I just can't get enough of Zod, from his unfiltered contempt to the way he learns and uses his power. Before he learns to fly in the final scenes he climbs the outside of a building like a leaping rabid panther, jumping from floor to floor crushing the walls and windows under his grip.
11. Superman Kills - this is probably the most contentious part of the film but in my opinion it was absolutely the right thing to depict. It wasn't like Clark wanted to do it but Zod was threatening his adopted species. At the level of experience, knowledge and ability that Clark had at the time, this was his only option. It was good he had to face this decision and it showed his humanity to make it and then also to mourn it. This wasn't any willy nilly spin the earth on its axis to reverse time (as much as I love Superman: The Movie) and it wasn't any namby pamby "I won't kill you but I don't have to save you" (as much as I love Batman Begins), this was a Man of Steel decision that made sense within the story of Man of Steel.
There's a lot more I like about the movie, and a lot more I dislike but overall, I just love it. I'll refresh my memory on BVS tomorrow but apart from the obvious stupid stuff in Batman Vs Superman, I think that film is so disappointing because it is a sequel to (what I think is) the excellent Man of Steel. Likewise, it is why the rest of the so called DCEU spin offs are so decidedly average. The foundation is solid, but the building is made of hay. The high expectations from MoS buried BVS and having one brilliant film and one terrible film set a precedent, allowing the rest of the DCEU to be enjoyed for what they are - middling somewhere in between the two.
Having said that, I'll probably come back with a more positive reaction to BVS after I've watched it again tomorrow 😅. We'll see!
@ralphdibny Completely agree with you (well apart from the part about Russell Crowe). It was exactly I wanted from a Superm... Man of Steel movie at the time.
Mind if I post my favourite movies list here?
4. Lego Batman movie: Almost everything about this movie is perfect. The references, jokes, animation and voice acting is perfect. The only parts I didn’t like were that not everything is made of lego and the middle drags on a bit but after that it is an extremely fun movie that I recommend to any DC fan and Lego.
3.Guardians of the galaxy: This was the first MCU movie I watched and it launched me into becoming a marvel fan. The humour is what really got me into the marvel movies. It doesn’t take itself too seriously unless it really needs to like in the end. The music is the best part! This is the first movie where I’ve gone out of my way to buy the soundtrack and was like a gateway drug for me liking older music. The fight scenes are awesome too! Please watch this movie.
2.The lego movie: I love this movie for the same reasons that I love lego batman except even it’s even better. The movie doesn’t slow down in the middle and the animation is even better as everything is lego (including the water). The action is great and the message about creativity fits well with lego.
1.Scott Pilgrim vs. The World: What can I say about this movie? The jokes are hilarious, the references are subtle and aren’t in your face. The editing is amazing too! So many clean transitions and hand drawn effects. It literally feels like a comic book brought to life. It stays true to the comics and while Michael Cera’s take on Scott is a bit different to the version from the books, it is easy to get used to.
@Jackpaza0508 The Scott Pilgrim movie irritates me. It’s an alright movie but it’s not a great adaptation. While I understand that they probably wouldn’t have gotten the funding to make multiple movies, it’s totally rushed and barely resembles the comics. I grew up with the comics so seeing the movie just felt like a huge disappointment even if it’s relatively decent. A lot of the nuance is lost and Scott isn’t even close to the selfish manipulative mess of a human he is in the comics.
@JohnnyShoulder I'm glad there's another MoS fan out there! In some ways, I wish they didn't sequelise that movie. It's not exactly a good jumping off point for sequels and spin offs. That being said, I am looking forward to seeing what the JL director's cut is like tomorrow!
@nessisonett I do agree with you there! Scott is way different from how he is in the books but everything else in the movie is amazing. I would've preferred if Scott was the same as he was in the books though.
I've just watched Batman Vs Superman: Dawn of Justice: The Ultimate Edition again, a suitably long, confusing and frustrating title for a suitably long, confusing and frustrating film.
If people have read my thoughts on other films, TV shows and games then I think you'll know that I don't often subscribe to public opinion nor do I to critical opinion. It's not to say all of my thoughts are original or unshared but more to say that I try to make my own mind up and it usually comes out somewhere between the two. That being said, there probably isn't a lot of opinion I can give on BvS that hasn't already been expressed by people in the past. But I'll have a go and I'll try and break it up into bits I like and don't like.
Dislike Bruce's Origin - Why do we have to see this again? (I'll answer my own question later.) We have seen this in so many films now, not to mention TV, animation and comics. There's only so many ways you can shoot this sequence and they largely end up being very similar. Between Batman '89, Batman Begins, this film and Joker, I hope Hollywood gives this sequence a rest from now on. Like Batman's Dream - this is an awesome sequence. The superman cops, the parademons, Batman's trenchcoat, the fighting. I have no idea what it means but I'm guessing it's somewhere between a prophecy of the coming invasion and an expression of Bruce's anxiety over his helplessness from his perceived threat of Superman. I guess we may or may not find out later when the JL director's cut drops! Dislike Dr. Supermanhattan - I love the Watchmen film, all 3 versions of it though I prefer the middle length Directors Cut over the theatrical or Ultimate cuts. The first hour of BvS from Bruce's origin to the philosophical examination of "the" superman is presented so much like Watchmen and so little like Man of Steel that it is really jarring. An aesthetic was set in Man of Steel but this felt more like Watchmen 1.5 and it's weird. It's not bad but it doesn't fit the tone of the movie considering they drop the whole aesthetic and the Superman/Dr. Manhattan comparisons after about an hour or so. Like Neil DeGrasse Tyson - turns out he's a good actor and he can believably spin a script about Superman into his usual interesting scientific explanations! Probably the best thing to come out of the Watchmen mimicry of the televised debates and analysis along with cool shots of Superman dragging a tanker. They are cool shots but why are they in the movie? Dislike Lex Luthor - I love The Social Network, it's one of my favourite films. Jesse Eisenberg already had Luthor in the bag with his role as the fictionalised Mark Zuckerberg so why did he come up with this? It's bizarre. Love Luthor's Theme - the best bit about Lex is the music that plays during his most nefarious segments. Hate Batman's Dumb - Why is he so dumb? I don't want to bag on this too much because I always try to separate an adaptation from the source material and this is the first time we meet Snyder's version of Bruce so maybe he is just a bit thick. But come on, he's the world's greatest detective and in other media portrayed as smart as and at times smarter than Luthor. I get that his feeling of inferiority could have impeded his faculties but did the arrival of an alien really knock 20 years of crime fighting experience out of his head and allow him to fall for this obvious ploy by Luthor? Dislike Confusing Plot - this is worse in the theatrical cut but is still a problem in the Ultimate Cut. Firstly, the scam with the burned bodies at the warlord's camp at the beginning of the film. This takes some real thinking to connect it with Superman's heat vision. It gets explained by the paid off woman who gives the interview but by that point you have pretty much forgotten the bodies being flamethrowered by KGBeast near the beginning of the film. (Maybe this was intentionally so obtuse to demonstrate how it could even fool The Batman?) Secondly... Dislike Doomsday - why even bother? For half an hour of movie, what is the point of introducing this massive turd. I imagine it is to kill Superman so they could set up the sequel but it makes the film stupid as a standalone piece. There's three things that explain Doomsday, Zod's body, Luthor's blood and two bits of easily missed dialogue. Why does Zod + Luthor = Doomsday. Of course it's what the Kryptonian computer said, something about thousands of years of Kryptonian knowledge that's accessible in the archives. It's a quick bit of dialogue that's reiterated later equally as quick as something "ancient". The assumption is that Luthor used this knowledge to programme something into the computer before combining his blood with Zod's body. I was really paying attention so I could understand it but this assumption is not specified directly in the film. It probably takes knowledge of Doomsday's off screen origin to even understand it as well. Like Wonder Woman - Gal is awesome in the role and is probably the only good thing to come from Doomsday's presence - because it gives her something to fight. Mixed Bag Wonder Woman's Theme - I love this tune and it is brilliant when it rings out in the fight against Doomsday but not so much when it plays as Bruce looks at a 100 year old photo of Diana on his computer earlier in the film. Like DC Characters - not much to say about this but it's cool that Carol Ferris and KGBeast made an appearance (Jimmy Olsen less so). Fishburne as Perry White is pretty funny too, I can't remember exactly what he said but he had such a sarcastic line earlyish in the film that made him a total bad ass. Dislike Ben Affleck - I think his face is just too well known and I don't see Batman, I see Ben Affleck. I'm not a huge fan of Cavill either but at least he has the benefit of being a relative unknown (at the time of Man of Steel's release anyway) and is serviceable in the role. I'm not huge on the "wide" Batman look either, it kind of works in The Dark Knight Returns book but I think it looks weird on screen. At least Affleck is ripped... unless Snyder CGI'd those abs on like he did for Gerard Butler as Leonidas in 300. Like Batman Vs. Superman - this fight scene is great and is well filmed (except the epileptic flashes of light). Probably not much else to say on it. It's how you would expect the fight to go but it's still cool to see anyway. Okay Alfred - I like Jeremy Irons, he's great in Die Hard 3 and in the Watchmen TV show but it is pretty hard to top Michael "Master Bruce" Caine. It's a different Alfred I know and while it's hard to choose a winner between Nicholson's, Ledger's and Phoenix's Joker (the less said about Leto's, the better), I think Caine trumps both Irons' and Gough's Alfred. Dislike Martha - this is why we saw Bruce's origin, so they could hamfist some flashbacks into this scene to make this stupid dialogue make sense. There's no point beating a dead horse as this scene has been derided by most people already I'm sure. Probably more creatively than I can do it too.
It was a bit of a rant at times and like with MoS, there's more that I like and dislike about this film that I could have written had I been taking notes throughout. I've been harsh but I've also been generous. I think this is the third or fourth time I've seen this movie and I think I have upgraded it from "terrible" to "average" and that's only because I understand it more every time I see it (especially in its longer form). It's not the good kind of understanding more on rewatches though, you know the kind you get from a well made "layered" film where you understand the movie the first time around but notice more and more as you watch it again and again. It's the bad kind where it doesn't make sense the first time and it's a struggle to connect the dots even after multiple viewings.
I'd probably like to add that this film doesn't have the same agency as Man of Steel. I just can't get nearly as invested in the story of BvS as I can in the story of MoS. It seems less human, less personal which is weird considering the alien is now sharing the marquee with a human. That's probably the point, to show the human Bruce's lack of humanity juxtaposed against the alien Clark's abundance of humanity. I just don't think it's effective in conveying that, or at least in any meaningful way.
I was quite optimistic about the JL Director's Cut after watching Man of Steel last night but I am less so now that I've watched BvS. I'm still excited to watch it though and see how this "trilogy" is supposed to end. Hopefully it's decent and adds something to BVS. I don't really like a when a film needs a sequel to explain it unless it's clearly a 2 parter like Kill Bill or the It remake/adaptation (even then, the first parts of both of those duologies were decent on their own) but if JL can add anything to BvS then it is a good thing and may make a future viewing marathon of the trilogy actually worth taking part in.
Edit: I am going to add one more dislike that I've just remembered... Film Student Shots - when Lois goes into her apartment near the beginning of the film, there are shots of her opening her letter box (yes the Tarantino style inside-the-trunk style shot) and of her running a tap. They serve no narrative purpose and are usually the types of shots you would find in either a student film or a green director's first gig on a BBC/Sky TV drama. In those examples, they usually show how a director has no idea what to film so they just film any action that would take place. An experienced director would only use them under dialogue or a scene setting piece of music or just as a way to transition to another scene through a graphic match. I am not quite sure why Snyder left them in, it's certainly below his proven talent as a filmmaker.
@ralphdibny I agree with most of this. Except Luthors theme, as I guess I didn't notice he had one. Also never seen Watchmen so those references are lost on me. But yes to everything else... even Gadot's Wonder Woman, which I'm not a fan of. (I will say, she has a particular bit of dialogue in this movie that makes less sense now after WW84 but eh, I forgive.)
"One of the unloveliest and least enlightening aspects of contemporary discourse is the tendency to presume that whatever one disagrees with must be very simple—not only simple, but also simply wrong." - Elizabeth Bruenig
@zupertramp I am glad some of it rings true with you as well! It's a hard movie to give an original opinion on so many years after the fact because good or bad, I imagine most of what can be said has been said.
I did feel bad being so harsh on it at times and I am sure there are many people who will like the bits I disliked and dislike the bits I liked. I think I would be more favourable toward it (but not much) if Man of Steel didn't exist as I obviously love that film!
Luthor's Theme (probably not the actual title of the track) is like a really grandiose orchestral piece of music. I think it fits the character but more importantly, it just sounds good, to me at least.
I'm guessing you mean the "leaving man's world for a hundred years" line? I still haven't seen WW84 but I guess that wouldn't make sense in that context. I did think Gadot was a pleasure in this film but it is so disheartening that her first solo film at least was such a bore for the most part.
Ahhh I just put on JL, guess I'm doing an all nighter unless I fall asleep in the first act. I'm literally on the opening credits and had to look up whether it's supposed to be in full screen instead of wide screen. Aparently, yes it is as it's supposed to be the IMAX screen ratio. Would be great if I was watching it at the BFI IMAX in Waterloo (one of the only IMAX screens in England that actually has this ratio, most of them are somewhere between Waterloo and a standard cinema screen), not so great watching it on a 32 inch monitor from 5 feet away. There's the directors original intention and the products ultimate presentation and I do wonder if having this screen format is really worth it if this is only going to end up on TV. I imagine there will be a limited theatrical run when the cinemas reopen but still, pretty much only one screen in the UK can show this aspect ratio without black bars on the sides! Aparently Batman Vs Superman is getting a new 4K blu ray that restores the IMAX ratio for that film too, I wonder if that presentation will be nearly square or if it will just crop the IMAX sequences to all 4 corners of a standard wide-screen like The Dark Knight blu ray does.
Edit: Just finished it, had to take a few breaks to wake myself up a bit. looking forward to hear other people's thoughts on it!
I'll add some thoughts of my own but they won't be in depth, probably have to watch this film a few more times to form a proper opinion. Massive spoilers for the JL Snyder Cut follow so don't click if you haven't watched it yet!
I think I am most surprised at how similar the actual plot is to the original film. I think with the shots of Darkseid and Joker in the trailer, along with the extended run time, the 70million dollar budget, well I guess I thought they'd change and add more plot to the film. Maybe incorporate the part 2 with the full Darkseid invasion. I'm not disappointed in the film, I quite liked the original JL to be honest anyway and this is a bit like a Lord of The Rings extended cut. A lot has been added and some has been removed. Good to see a couple of extra DC cameos/roles too. The film was quite Watchmen-y in a few parts and Snyder just seems to love the song Hallelujah, we will probably get the Jeff Buckley version in his next film! I know the Luthor bit was in the original film too with slightly different dialogue but it's mad how with a couple short scenes they can "fix" both Eisenberg's and Leto's portrayals of Lex and Joker respectively. I'm not a huge fan of the IMAX format for home viewing, I can't imagine this being worth the extra money to see in an IMAX theatre anyway. I've seen a few films in IMAX like The Hobbit 1, The Dark Knight Rises and Inhumans. The only film I would say was worth seeing there was Mission Impossible Ghost Protocol because of the Burj Khalifa scene that practically gave me vertigo seeing it on a screen that huge. Also the seating in the Waterloo IMAX is really uncomfortable so I would struggle to sit there for four hours but I'm sure they'd do an intermission if they do end up showing this there. I like both versions of the movie, I'd say there could probably be a sweet spot where they cut extraneous scenes from this version and reincorporate some of the less dumb scenes from the original. Either way, I am happy with both versions being available to watch. Edit: oh yeah I forgot another bit I really liked about the new version is Alfred's more butlerish tendencies like when he micromanaged Diana's tea making and called Clark "Master Kent"!
@RogerRoger my apologies for my harsh review of BVS! I didn't realise it was your favourite superhero movie! Nice that you posted the two tunes I mentioned as being highlights! @zupertramp the first link is the lex tune
@RogerRoger glad you enjoyed it, I tried to make it slightly entertaining lol. I quite like the Hans Zimmer scores I've heard to be honest. I know he gets a lot of flak but I rate it. I think he did Dark Phoenix too which I actually love despite popular opinion and the soundtrack is what elevates it for me
@RogerRoger ahh yeah I forgot Danny elfman did the original version and incorporated his own batman theme and adapted the John Williams superman theme, (Snyder Cut music spoilers:) I was thinking when those themes might pop up while I was watching it today but I totally forgot it had different composers so that's why they didn't I guess!
Past the first hour of Zack Snyder's Justice League
This is probably the most engaged I've been in any DC film he's directed. He finally managed to strike a perfect tone that isn't overly self-serious nor is it cheesily jovial like the theatrical cut
As someone who only thought Man of Steel was ok and really didn't like Batman v. Superman I'm honestly seriously impressed by how much of an improvement this film is shaping up to be over what we got 4 years ago. Even Steppenwolf kind of has a character arc now, and the new version of the history scene was very well done
Ok so I stayed up late watching the Zack Snyder version of Justice League. Which is a reminder, I need to cancel my free week of NowTV since I don't want to pay for it.
Anyway, it was a loooong experience and a slight bombarding of the senses. However, this was, in my mind, the best DCEU film made so far. The plot made sense (albeit a magic mcguffin plot but then almost all superhero movies have them), the characters had actual arcs and motivations, the villain was interesting and I felt that every hero had their moment.
It's hard though to judge if this was the film we would have got at cinemas had things not unfolded this way. No studio would have allowed a nearly 4 hour cut so what would have been cut out of the film? Still, I liked the fact that this was paving the way for a greater story and it did its job in that I would have liked to have seen this story come to screen. I doubt we ever will unless this becomes SUPER(man) popular but a nice sort of glimpse of what might have been.
If you are intrigued I dont think you'll waste your time. It is, by no means, a masterpiece, but as an opener for a 2-3 film arc and a superhero team up move it does an awful lot right.
Now I may be an idiot, but there's one thing I am not sir, and that sir, is an idiot
@Rudy_Manchego I did think about what could be cut for a theatrical release, it is certainly hard to say! I think certain character moments would be cut, shots would be trimmed so they could have the same effect without going on for too long. I reckon we might have lost portions of certain origin stories too and they would have trimmed the action scenes.
I reckon with some careful thinking and clever editing, the film could be brought down to 2 and a half hours which seems to be the theatrical benchmark set by BvS and MoS. Hard to say for definite though having only watched it once when I was really tired after an all nighter watching BvS!
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