Topic: The Movie Thread

So. Aquaman is... uh... kind of all over the place. It's definitely not bad, and there's some great visual inventiveness in the different aquatic settings, but it feels very unfocused, like the filmmakers opted for a 'kitchen sink' approach on what to include in the film. I'll admit: I got an enormous chuckle out of the chase scene with the robotic manta ray vehicles that seemed ripped straight out of Star Wars. It's fun enough: absolutely better than the dreadful Avengers: Infinity War or DC's own Suicide Squad. Not as good as Wonder Woman or Batman v Superman, though.

@kyleforrester87 It's fun, right? Feels like both a decent 80's movie homage and a solid Transformers movie.

I finally got around to seeing Spider-Man: Into the Spiderverse. People have been raving about it and honestly, I was pretty much going in without any prior knowledge of really what it was. I didn’t see any trailers or read any reviews. I wasn’t that hyped for it since it was animated and I don’t really get into the animated comic book movies. I really only went to see it in a theater because some friends convinced me since they had already seen it and loved it and told me they knew I would love it.
So I have to say I’m a tiny bit ... disappointed. It was a good show but I guess I was expecting more, plot-wise.

Not only am I not typically a fan of animated comic hero movies, but I also haven’t read the source material on any of these heroes, DC or Marvel. I have really enjoyed the live action MCU and DCEU movies, and I’d say I’m a pretty rabid fan of those, so maybe that’s why it is hard to see this movie with an open mind. It’s clearly written with a modern generation in mind and although I enjoyed the hip-hop music and overt attempts at diversification, it felt a little bit like a fish out of water. I’ve no problem with Miles Morales character - he’s a likable and relatable protagonist. And the voice acting and writing was very good. The visuals also were uniquely dazzling, although they get to be a bit much toward the end with all the crazy effects going on. It’s a bit fatiguing trying to follow what’s on screen with flashing lights, quick bursts of action and frame changing, and just all the explosive display of animation that it throws on screen all at once at certain points.

The story was just what I had to manually disconnect my brain in order to enjoy. There is a strange dissonance in the narrative and it is told in a very comic book style and with a lot of tongue-in-cheek plot points. I’m trying to avoid major spoilers, but simply put, you can’t take the story too seriously. And for an animated, cartoon/CG style movie I suppose that should go without saying, but at times it tries to explain itself and be a serious story with clear nods to the comics, but then there is some offputting silliness and parts that pull you out of the Spider-Man world, scratching your head at what is going on. For example, it just seemed weird that Miles is reading a comic book about Spider-Man, who is a real person in his world, and then he even is in his own comic book toward the end. It’s a cross over of real life and fictional life that just seems weird. It makes moments of legitimate emotional impact fall flat to me, like when the reveal comes that his uncle is the villain chasing him, it just doesn’t move me as a viewer nearly as much as it could have since the whole world is just kind of a made up fantasy place. And maybe the intent is to have it just be a popcorn movie purely for fun. I can respect that. But at times it does seem like the film has a small identity crisis and doesn’t know what it wants to be.
Again, all this from me, a person who is pretty ignorant of the actual comic book material. Maybe if I’d have read some of the Spidey comics then I’d appreciate this strange mish-mash of characters and setting.

It sounds like I didn’t like it, but I did. I liked it a lot. But I certainly wouldn’t put it up there with the greatest superhero movies of all time, as some people have.

Watched Aquaman last week and BumbleBee earlier today. Nothing special but both decent movies. Story wise BumbleBee's premise was a bit too similar like the first Transformers movie. Teenager desperately wants a car, finds BumbleBee, befriends it and they fight the Decepticons. Oh yeah, there's also John Cena's character which is essentially Josh Duhamel's character in the previous movies. Best parts were the action sequences and of cause the decision to use the original designs for the some robots. One of my favourite scenes was the part that had Soundwave and Ravage. Other parts were a bit too slow and sometimes boring to be honest. Not that I have any issues with it but BumbleBee also does feel like it's a kid's movie. On the plus side, at least its better than most of the previous Transformers movies and I also liked the soundtrack.

Even though Aquaman was only okay for me, it's still the second best DCU movie so far.

I give BumbleBee a 6.5 and Aquaman a 6 out of 10.

@Bad-MuthaAdebisi Agreed but I didn't like those white plastic looking suits that the Atlantis warriors wore, though.

Watched Vice. Pretty much the leftist character assassination piece on Cheney I was expecting, although it has to be said that Christian Bale really did a fantastic job in the role. He disappears into it, and captures Dick Cheney's growling, sardonic mannerisms perfectly. Sam Rockwell was much less successful as former President George W. Bush, and his mocking performance wouldn't have been out of place on something like SNL. There's a time and a place for mocking portrayals of major American figures, but an ostensibly serious biopic isn't it. Its screenwriter also clearly has no taste for crafting political interactions that really seem genuine, which makes a lot of the drama of this piece fall flat.

With that said, it was at least a creative film, with an amusing fake-out ending halfway through, as well as a memorable sequence where Dick and Lynne Cheney chronicle their political ambitions in iambic pentameter, which was clearly meant to evoke Shakespearian drama.

Films I watched over Christmas:

Avengers Infinity War: very good fun, this might be the first Marvel film where I can remember what happened more than 24 hours after it finished.

Saving Mr Banks: started half-watching this on Boxing Day, ended up really enjoying it. Reminded me how much I like Jason Schwartzman.

Bumblebee: This film rocks. It's like someone said "let's re-write the first Transformers movie but this time let's at least try to aim it at normal people instead of drooling idiots"

Trainspotting 2: It took me a while to get around to this, because I was worried it would be rubbish. It wasn't rubbish, in fact it had some great bits, although I kind of wondered what the point was.

Tomb Raider (2018): Wasn't expecting much, but I enjoyed this a lot. Very good effort, probably the best game-to-movie adaptation I've seen. Makes me want to play the recent trilogy, which I still haven't got around to.

Peter Rabbit (2018): Put it on for the kids while I tried to do some work. It entertained them for the duration. That's all I can say. Beatrix Potter would have hated it. Whether that's a good thing or a bad thing depends on your disposition.

Watched the original Mary Poppins with the family. It's... mediocre. The plot is practically non-existent, the movie just halts for long periods while absurd sequences with no real relevance to the larger story play out (there's a dance number with chimney sweeps, in particular, that just seems to go on forever), characters feel static, 2D, and largely unchanged by the end (and the evolution of Mr. Banks is so graceless and jarring that his transformation did nothing for me), and the whole film just doesn't feel like it comes together well. Julie Andrews is great, of course, but she's wasn't given a lot to work with, and, in terms of musicals she was in, much prefer The Sound of Music.

@Ralizah yeah there are quite a few films like that which people hold in such high regard but in actuality are rather mediocre other include Willy Wonker and the Chocolate factory (the new version is a lot better), Chitty Chitty Bang Bang and the original Star Wars movie

@FullbringIchigo First time I've heard the original Star Wars being called mediocre. What didn't you like about it, out of curiosity?

Anyway, I think a big part of the problem is that these movies insinuate themselves into peoples' lives from an early age. We form emotional attachments to and associations with these films. Same reason "90's kids" who grew up with Nintendo consoles are often so worshipful of Mario 64 or any number of SNES games, or people born in the mid-to-late 70's swear up and down that various random 80's films are actually timeless cinematic classics.

@Ralizah @FullbringIchigo Yeah, sometimes it’s best to not go back and rewatch old classics as they rarely hold up. Unless it’s Star Wars.

@Ralizah because it's basically a fairy tail story in space, in terms of how it did it was was revolutionary, the effects and cinematography at the time was ground breaking but as for what the story boils down to it's a generic hero saves the princess form the dark knights castle story nothing that hasn't been done a hundred times before

and if you watch it now it's full of wooden acting, poor writing and cliched characters

Luke is the hero raised on a farm who gets hold of a message from a captured princess
Obi-Wan is the old knight hiding after his protege turned on him
Han is the rouge in it for the money who has a change of heart at the end
Chewie is the rouges big strong friend
Vader is the Black Knight who turned on his master
Tarkin is the Count/Duke who holds the princess in his castle
the Death Star is the castle

the hero finds the message meant for the old knight and while he goes to find him his family is killed by the black knight and his men, with no where to go he journeys with the old knight to rescue the princess and train in the ways of the sword, on the way the meet a rouge who agrees to go with them for a reward and so along with his strong friend sneak into the castle and rescue the princess which they do but as they escape the dark knight runs into the old knight and they duel ending in the death of the old knight after wards the princess rally's her forces to launch an attack on the counts castle and a big battle ensues, the rouge after getting his money has left, during the raid the hero meets the black knight and just when it seems he is about to die the rouge comes in to save him after having a change of heart, the castle is destroyed, the count dead and the black knight escapes, the hero and rouge are then given honours by the princess and the story ends

sound familiar?

don't get me wrong i still love the films ALL of them but the original is the weakest of the entire franchise

yeah all 3 prequels and both sequels are better than a New Hope and the ONLY reason most people hold it so high is because it's SO ingrained in them by their parents or grandparents, the original trilogy is full off all the issues people bring up about the other films but for some reason most fans just ignore them

@FullbringIchigo I think they say that there are only seven basic types of stories in all of literature anyways.
According to Christopher Booker’s The Seven Basic Plots : overcoming the monster (as in Beowulf ), rags to riches (as in Cinderella), the quest (as in King Solomon’s Mines), voyage and return (as in The Time Machine), comedy (as in A Midsummer Night’s Dream), tragedy (as in Anna Karenina) and rebirth (as in Beauty and the Beast).
And I’ve seen the number be as many as 36, or as few as 3, depending on the analyst. But the point is, there is a limited number of plots and all movies, literature, and even video game narratives are variations of common themes. So to say the story lacks originality, is only partly true and could be said for nearly every epic storyline out there.
That being said, I agree about the poor quality of some of A New Hope’s acting, dialog, and visual effects.

@Th3solution yeah your right what is it they say about hollywood "every story that can be done has already been done"

maybe that's why current hollywood is on the "bending" craze, you know instead of making something new they just remake something old but change say a male character into a female one or change the time and have a story that was set in lets say the Victorian era set in the modern day

@FullbringIchigo Even given each plot line is recycled in some way, shape, or form - I enjoy an epic “good versus evil” and “common man rises up to defeat powerful villain” and “unlikely romance blossoms between snarky headstrong princess archetype and bumbling buffoon underachieving hero”, etc, etc. As long as holleywood can present the story in a unique setting and throw some twists in there with a modern fresh coat of paint, I’m good.

@FullbringIchigo Joseph Campbell helped with the script, so the parallels to mythology and fairy tales were conscious and deliberate. It's actually one of the reasons it's my favorite film in the series: it takes the foundations of ancient storytelling and puts it in a bombastic science-fiction context. Structurally, it's basically perfect for what it is.

But I respect the fact that this doesn't really resonate with you.

Saw Venom tonight and I really enjoyed it. I know they had to take some liberties and not mention Spider-Man at all. I thought they did a good job rewriting Venom's backstory to exclude Spider-Man.

Definitely one of the better films I seen in 2018.

@Ralizah like i said i still enjoy it but i still feel it's the weakest of the franchise and it has quite a few incontinuities with the other films that they are still fixing it in the expanded media today

and like i said they still did it in a new and exciting way but going back to it today it really shows it's age

@RogerRoger Thanks for your excellent objective review of a re-visiting to a classic. I tend to agree with most of your points. Especially the fact that A New Hope’s Special Edition upgrades do have a tendency to just highlight the rest of the poor native visual effects.
And you’re right in the sense that when A New Hope was made, there was no guarantee that it would be a success. In fact, it was quite a gamble, I’m sure. And the smaller budget, coupled with the technology constraints didn’t help in the presentation department. So considering it was an experiment in Sci-Fi storytelling, it stands as quite a feat historically. Nevertheless, the chinks in the armor become more apparent with each passing year, as you have adequately outlined already. But it is my understanding that Lucas had the whole saga written and of course had to choose a small part to make for the first movie. He had to make it self contained enough to stand on its own, as there was a possibility that he would not be able to tell the whole tale if the film flopped. In fact, he modified the original storyline and characters extensively leading up to the final screenplay.
Overall, I would compare A New Hope to a Monet — a beautiful piece of art when held at a distance and taken as a mood piece to inspire and enjoy, but it’s a mess if you inspect it too closely.

@RogerRoger Fair points, all, on Empire’s virtues and shortcomings. Most Star Wars enthusiasts list it as their favorite of the series. I used to like Return of the Jedi more as a kid, but recently I favor Empire more. I think it has to do with the Ewoks and the Battle of Endor. I am actually a big fan of the movie trope whereby against all odds the simplistic natives overpower the evil technologically advanced oppressors. It’s just that the Ewoks, although cute enough, don’t feel quite heroic enough. I can’t quite put my finger on it. Other than that, I adore the conclusion of Anakin’s Redemption arc. I really like the other memorable set pieces in Jedi like Jabba and the Sarlac pit, the New Death Star, and the revelation of the Emperor and his massive powers. Endor is a great setting too, it’s just the Ewoks have grated a little bit on me on subsequent viewings.
I’ll be curious to read your comments after rewatching Jedi.

@RogerRoger I don't really see Ewoks in themselves as the problem with Jedi. It's not like other SW films didn't have cute aliens running around at times. It's that the sequences on Endor completely throw off the pacing of the movie. They feel... fillerish. You mentioned Empire had a lot of sequences where people were just kind of... doing stuff... with no plot development, and that's very true, but that running around heightened the gradual sense of desperation building up throughout the film until the final, very bleak, act. Empire isn't my favorite film in the trilogy (that would be ANH), but it comes together as a cohesive experience by the end, and I think everything needed to happen the way it happened in that movie for it to achieve the effect it did. I can't say that for Jedi: it feels like three movies in one, if you count that, yes, extremely entertaining opening section where they rescue Han as one. So, it's a much more unfocused film than the first two. I think how much it resonates with you also depends on how invested you become in the Luke/Anakin soap opera, which I didn't. The way their storyline ends is great, but what I've always appreciated about the first two films is their ability to subjugate plot and character to the sweep of filmic grandeur (the simplistic but oh-so-satisfying original film, in particular). Jedi has some of this, of course, but it's much more invested in the development of its characters and its worldbuilding. This focus on character development and worldbuilding (and wooden acting, and terrible pacing, but I digress) is what killed the prequels for me, and I can see shadows of that approach in this film.

Anyway, great write-ups! I'm really enjoying reading your takes on these films, and your passion for this property is quite infection.

@RogerRoger @Ralizah I agree that the use of the cute and/or strange looking toy-like creatures are prevalent throughout the Star Wars series, and not just Ewoks. And really toy and knick-knack products have been sold in affiliation of many movie and TV series since. I would surmise that Star Wars pioneered the market of movie toys, action figures, and other products related to a film. It seems more transparent to me now that subsequent to the success of the toys from the first film, this evolved into a conscious decision to include such characters for their marketability since movie related toys and products overflow on store shelves nowadays. Characters like the jawas and the randoms in the cantina in A New Hope were obviously not placed with the thought that they’d make good toys since that wasn’t really a practice back in the 70’s, I would think. But the inclusion of the porgs in The Last Jedi just seems like a blatant attempt to plan for the inevitable plushies that would follow.
Selling related collector items and toy merchandise is a practice that is seen in everything from Stranger Things and The Walking Dead, to Harry Potter and Frozen, so it’s definitely not isolated to Star Wars.
But anyways, I ramble...
The Ewoks will forever be as polarizing amongst fans as Jar Jar is. I did like the presence of some comic relief in the midst of death, destruction, and torture scenes in the closing act. If only there would have been a more grounded realism to the guerilla tactics of the Ewok tribe. With all the comic and lightheartedness of the Endor sequence, it was a hard sell to have the battle trained imperials fall in such a way. I’m not sure why I have trouble suspending disbelief on that one minor issue, in a series filled with ridiculous feats and grandiose heroics. Nit-picking on the believability of Ewok nation is similar to the issue of the timing of Vader’s first “no”, I suppose. But in the end, I quite like Return of the Jedi and I see myself trying to watch these again sometime soon.
It’s been really fun to read both of your thoughts on it.