Topic: The Chit Chat Thread

@JohnnyShoulder Every PS4 controller I have bought here, 2 from Target, 1 from Amazon, 1 from Best Buy, has had the charging cable with them.

@Tasuki Ah right must be a US thang, unless they've started to do the same in the UK in the last six months.

@JohnnyShoulder I remember Nintendo also doing that with the 2DS I think it was where they didn't include a charging cable with the product and you had to buy it separately. That just seems bonkers to me.

@RogerRoger Yeah I have to agree with @KratosMD I never heard of them doing it with the DS, either that or it didn't bug anyone back then like everything seems to bug people nowadays so they didn't no one knew about it.

I just remember it now because NintendoLife did an article about it.

I am absolutely exhausted. One more day of work and then a day off, then I do most of a day followed by a doctor's trip to see about my once again stiff/dislocating knee, then working Thursday and opening day on Saturday.

Then as far as I know, it's a whole lot of 10pm to 6am shifts for me...

I also get 20% income tax on all my earnings apparently. That's fun.

@Tasuki @KratosMD @RogerRoger The DS Lite did come with a charger as it was different from the DS/Gameboy Advance ones. After that they've definitely not included a charger with either the 3DS or new 3DS XL.

The reasoning was that people buying would likely be previous DS Lite owners so would already have a wall charger.

Not a bad idea in terms of an environmental policy.

@RogerRoger

@RogerRoger

Ha!

@KratosMD Good linking!

Early in today's shift my knee dislocated while carrying a palette and I collapsed. Worked the rest of my shift, slowly, on a very loose leg.

And I agreed to overtime tomorrow!

@Kidfried Luck is nice. But I have an appointment with my GP this week, so I can go and say that hey, my knee still pops out.

@Kidfried I feel like we need to separate "effective design" and a "strong story." They're different things. in my mind. Something doesn't need to have a strong story to have effective design, and visa versa. I would say your Trico example is an example of effective game design tapping into emotional memories of the players. But it does not make for a strong story.

BotW actually has a lot of that internal consistency to its world. Musically, broken renditions of themes from previous games can evoke associations in your mind with now destroyed environments. In the case of Tarrey Town, the rebirth of the town itself is announced through the gradual evolution of the music. Various journal entries and small details in the environment are echoes of a world that vanished over the course of the game's apocalyptic backstory. Heck, the way the land is laid out in relation to where various tribes and groups are situated (in comparison to previous games like Ocarina of Time) suggests historical displacements that are never explicitly discussed in the main text of the game.

With that said, I don't care too much about that sort of thing, for the same reason I don't care too much about experiencing the story of Bloodborne through its item descriptions. I like the moment-to-moment experience of the game, the way that fashions a coherent and uniquely player driven adventure through the way the game evolves around you, and you alongside it. In this regard, I've yet to find a game that accomplishes this more satisfactorily than Breath of the Wild.

The world is a big part of this organic adventure as well. Breath of the Wild's world is one you can constantly grapple with. One you can manipulate in surprising ways, such as finding unique solutions to problems when you're low on health or short of weapons (I've had to constantly consider the topology of the landscape and the weather when engaging enemies in this game, for example, and both can change which strategies I adopt). One that is constantly finding ways to surprise the player. One that is full of tiny environmental details that are lacking in other games (there was an interesting video that surfaced last year of a lot of the small touches in BotW that were missing in Horizon, for example). It's a living, breathing world that the player is constantly struggling with and profiting from in interesting ways. Weather, temperature, wildlife, and the complex in-game physics combine with survival mechanics to make for a compelling environment to explore and within which to experience a sense of adventure. This sort of depth is missing in almost every other open world game I've played. Sure, you might find a NPC dead somewhere that you read about twenty hours ago in a book or textbox somewhere, but that doesn't matter as much to me as the design of the world itself, as the experience of grappling with it throughout in unique ways,and the way the game invisibly structures your experience without setting up artificial roadblocks. You don't have to go pre-designated climbing points to explore your environment. You don't have to go through reams of dialogue to access certain parts of the map. The game is designed in such a way that it is constantly rewarding the player's curiosity, and I really treasure that aspect of the game.

Edit: I said this in another thread, but I think the fundamental problem is that I "fell into" BotW and you didn't. It's why I had an amazing adventure and you experienced a series of tedious climbing and random treasure finding exercises. It's also why you presumably had an emotional experience with Journey, whereas I walked tediously through empty environments collecting scarf pieces. It's why The Last of Us was a string of annoying environmental puzzles, forced walking, and boring mook-killing segments instead of an emotional rollercoaster. The fact that we both "fell into" SotC is why we experienced it as a moving fable instead of a game where you ride a horse around an empty world killing lizards, following sunbeams, and occasionally solving a puzzle disguised as a boss battle.

Art gains its power from one's subjective relation to it. Take that away, and you're left with something that feels meaningless. Which is presumably why Beethoven's music can make some burst into tears and others fall to sleep from boredom.

Reading the descriptions of BotW and the idea of game design affecting narrative and what constitutes engaging story and where to draw the line between ‘open’ and ‘linear’ has me thinking about another game I keep mulling over trying — Kingdom Come Deliverance. Just wondering if anyone has tried it. It pretty well fell off the face of the earth despite it having quite a unique approach to gameplay and story. Evidently it borders on simulation given how realistic and free the options to proceed are, with small decisions affecting outcomes down the road and how the story develops. It was maligned for the unfortunate loading times and technical aspects that held it back. Does anyone have any experience with this game, either positive or negative and is the innovative approach refreshing or annoying?

@Ralizah The edit at the end of your post is very well said. Couldn’t agree more.

@Th3solution Take that fundamental subjectivity and mix it with emotion (I think most of us really treasure the art we love), and it makes a volatile cocktail when it comes to discussions. With that said, despite the heatedness of it in the other thread, I feel like almost everyone argued in good faith from their perspective, which is all I expect from anyone. It's nice to have a disagreement without "fanboy" accusations being lobbed around, which seems to happen so often online.

Regarding Kingdom Come: most games fall off the map after the immediate release window. It's why first-week and preorder sales are so crucial, and why "preorder incentives" will continue to become more and more outrageous over time.

Also, a lot of establishment gaming media either tarred it or refused to talk about it completely because of their conviction that the creator is a racist. The game still sold well, but I feel like anything that becomes a bit of ammunition in Western society's ongoing culture war is tarnished as a result. I'm still of the FIRM belief that the vibe around Yooka-Laylee overall would have been very different if the JonTron controversy hadn't happened. I think people online are extremely susceptible to suggestion, and accusations about the game likely being terrible started almost as soon as the controversy cropped up. I could almost feel the temperature in the room change.

Which isn't to say Yooka-Laylee doesn't have problems, but I think the way people both framed and reacted to said problems changed.

@Ralizah Yeah, I was actually surprised how well Detroit Become Human sold because I thought it would be victim to the internet outrage of the lawsuit at Quantic Dreams. I’m not sure the average gamer keeps up with the developers and studios involved, but a smaller niche title can live or die by whether the hard core gamers buy it and they (we) are the ones who keep up with the industry news and happenings.
I didn’t know about KC:D creator being accused of racism. I’m not one to let a person’s personal life or views affect my participation in their art or products, but I think we all have our limits where we would refuse to support something or someone due to our perception of whether they lack some basic principles we believe in. I approach it as, we are all imperfect humans. I can look past peoples weaknesses as long as they appear to be contrite and try to improve.
Anyway... I apologize as we delve into philosophy here, which may not be the time or place, but there are plenty of movies, books, and video games that I would assume if we knew the background of the creators that we would be horrified. It seems unfair to pick out one person’s character flaw (or alleged flaw). Yet, I have been known to not see a critically acclaimed movie because I think the lead actor is an idiot or the director is a louse.

I'm usually not too bothered about the creator's mindset unless it's something horrific. Really horrific. I can't think about many things I won't watch or play because of it. The only thing I can think of is how Hatred's creator had Nazi ties, though I also wouldn't play the game for other reasons. Granted, there are a ton of things I won't play because of feel some of the content is too extreme, but that's what's in the product, not the creator's head outside of the product. A creepy example I can think of though, is the book for a clockwork orange. I wouldn't read it in the first place since it's got some nasty stuff in it, one in particular involving pre-teen girls I know of. In the intro though, the author says he enjoyed doing all that stuff as the character and that an author uses his books to do what he want to do, but wouldn't do in the real world because he's too cautious and afraid of getting caught. How evil these acts are were not part of the reasoning for not doing it in the real world, he talked about freaking getting caught.

I'm so glad I don't really care about any of that. I probably wouldn't have ever played Fez if I cared about who made it.

@Jaz007 I would highly recommend that you do read A Clockwork Orange.

Like I said, I enjoy talking with you and some of the other posters here. There's a refreshing lack of toxicity, even when we vehemently disagree on something.

I mean, yes and no. He's going to get reactions if he makes his viewpoints public, but I expect better from professionals in gaming media.

I disagree. I'm sure most people haven't heard of the controversy, but I fully believe the massive amount of toxicity that sprung up around the issue heavily influenced the game's reception more broadly. In a fully connected society, even a loud minority can drastically impact the public dialogue about a thing. The more venom people spew about a thing, the more it colors the perceptions of people who aren't even aware of the origins of the issue.

Also, removing him was the wrong thing to do if they wanted to avoid ruffling feathers. Removing him when they did became an inherently partisan political act. The smart reaction would have been to change nothing and ignore the issue. Gears for Breakfast did this with A Hat in Time, and they avoided getting sucked in.

Three things:

1) Games like Y-L and KC:D aren't exactly mainstream releases. The people interested in them were primarily internet culture-savvy to begin with. So a controversy is going to have a much bigger impact on their reception than, say, the reception of Spider-Man. Niche controversies matter when it comes to the reception of niche games in highly interconnected communities.

2) Online gaming culture has been highly politicized since Gamergate. Even if it's a bubble, it's a reasonably large bubble that feeds into other large, ideologically motivated bubbles.

3) Ignoring something one loathes only helps if other people ignore it, too. But that's not happening, and I think people should know when culture war BS is intensifying or significantly contributing to a narrative about something. But I don't try to talk about it too much, because, as you pointed out, that can contribute to the issue in its own way.