@nessisonett@Jimmer-jammer@purplemouse Interesting. I’ll definitely try the cockpit view when GT7 comes out, just for kicks since they put so many resources into making it look and feel authentic, but I’m just not any good at doing driving games that way, based on past experience. We’ll see.
“We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.”
@Th3solution It's interesting because driving games seem to be the most divisive when it comes to camera viewpoint preferences. I think it depends on individual player history. Those who play a lot of racing simulators, or who grew up sitting in arcade cabinets, tend to prefer the authenticity of first-person, whereas those of us who mostly chuck around multiplayer kart racers opt for an external view.
Most of my time behind a digital wheel can be measured in standalone vehicle missions inserted in games of another genre entirely (stuff like the PS2 Bond games, Batman: Arkham Knight and MGSV, although I do have a small selection of kart racers on my shelf) but I'll admit, the potential immersion of a first-person driving view does appeal to me. When you get around to GT7, try the cockpit camera from the get-go, and treat it like part of the game's learning curve. If you really struggle with it, you know you can switch to something more familiar, but it might help you adjust if you think of it as a new feature.
"We want different things, Crosshair. That doesn't mean that we have to be enemies."
@RogerRoger You make a good point. Outside of Gran Turismo, I really don’t play much by way of racing games and do my virtual driving as a side event within other games.
It harbors back to the age-old debate of realism and simulation versus fun and escape. Some of the unrealistic elements of video game design is there to make it fun, approachable, and relaxing. There’s a fine balance of achieving that while keeping one foot in relatable authenticity.
I suppose it’s the same as those who dislike equipment degradation in games, lack of fast travel, or having to watch a rote animation when picking up an item. At some point we want to be able to play our games, not have our games play us. 😄
“We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.”
@Th3solution I think you've just identified why I haven't enjoyed the Gran Turismo series as much as I have games like, for example, Burnout. The former is a driving simulator designed to painstakingly reflect the reality of driving a bunch of overpowered supercars around race tracks, whereas the latter can be accurately summarised as, "Vroom!! Smash smash, handbrake turn, smash!! Wheeeee!!" Heaven help us if I'm ever put behind the wheel of a real supercar. I had Gran Turismo 4 back on PS2 and liked it well enough in short bursts, but mostly played it in splitscreen with friends who were more keen to try it than I was, and I always lost to them. I wanted to play other, more disposable games.
Another example of the same issue is my Dad, who used to play golf games on his Wii. He wanted the latest simulator titles from EA Sports, whereas I was quite happy with Wii Sports. It's great that there are different approaches for different tastes an' all, but I think my personal preference is clear!
"We want different things, Crosshair. That doesn't mean that we have to be enemies."
@RogerRoger Nothing wrong with wanting to have some unbridled freelancing fun! 😄 I think I straddle a line between preferring simulation accuracy vs. video game-y approachability. Having just finished R&C Rift Apart I really had a great time with it’s more loose approach to third person shooting. Just aim in the general direction and pull trigger! Or better yet, deploy a small army of fungus minions to shoot for you while you dodge and smash stuff! 😄
But having also recently played FF7R, I can’t help but scoff a little bit at the juxtaposition of realistic animation with a ridiculously large sword that Cloud carries around and wields as if it’s made of fiberglass. When in the throes of the game I’m able to disconnect my rational brain and just enjoy the gaminess of it all, but sometimes it pulls me out of the moment when the physics of the game world don’t make sense. Having played RE3 also recently (a game with a gritty realism to the art style and character movement) there were points that my brain would question “Why can’t I shoot this enemy through the fence?” Or “Why can’t I hop over this pile of garbage to get over to that place I can clearly see over there?” 😅
It probably has a lot to do with presentation. The more hyper-realistic the graphical presentation is, the more we expect the in-game physics and motion to be accurate as well. When a game has a more fanciful presentation then my skeptical mind is turned off to just enjoy the fictional world the game designers have created.
Back to Gran Turismo — for whatever reason, it’s the one racer I’ve stuck with. Kart racers and arcadey racers have never held my interest. It might be the full sim aspects of tuning the wheel camber or stiffening every aspect of the four wheel suspension in order to maximize turning radius and grip; or knowing the exact perfect velocity and entry angle to a turn in order to have maximum exit speed…. But I actually rather think it’s the rpg-like progression system that speaks to me. I like starting out with a Toyota Corolla and working my way up to a McLaren F1 through gradual improvements and investments into my cars and slowly learning how to drive better and better.
It largely why I skipped GT Sport, since it seemed it was going more for the online racing and took away some of the single player license and ‘story’ building, if you can call it that.
“We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.”
I always play camera chasing the car with a controller, but I like first person if I have a wheel. I do find it's easier to judge my position on the road if I can see the entire car.
@Th3solution It's funny how we can accept some leaps of logic, but others stick out in our brains. You mention the example of Cloud's Buster Sword and you're right, it's comically large when compared to his stature and body shape, but I never had a problem with it in the original because the simplistic graphics and anime CGI cutscenes sold it as part of the game's flamboyant design. It's interesting that you noticed it as a jarring problem in the remake, what with its more realistic presentation an' all, but then I suppose fans would've freaked or boycotted the game had the Buster Sword been scaled down.
Oh wow, and then that's the exact point you went on to make in your third paragraph. D'oh! That'll teach me to start typing before I've read the whole reply!
If you've got history with Gran Turismo then fair enough, that might make the idea of starting GT7 in first-person a bit less viable. You're gonna already have decades of muscle memory to call upon, and any major changes are gonna be more noticeable and distracting as a result. Here's hoping you find it a return to form, after skipping GT Sport. I just like skidding sideways around corners whenever I play racing games, and remember that it was far more complicated to achieve in GT4 than it was in other games! I don't think I progressed very far in the "campaign" mode as a result.
"We want different things, Crosshair. That doesn't mean that we have to be enemies."
Hades is full of very smart design decisions. One I think is particularly neat: when opening the codex, which is needed to see your relationship status with the many characters, it will automatically open to the character you’re standing nearest to. I’ve tested it out around the ‘house’ and it’s quite consistent. Not as much in the other realms. This idea of a “smart” menu is something I think could be iterated on further, though there is a part of me that likes the predictability and resultant muscle memory of consistent menu operations.
“Reason is the natural order of truth; but imagination is the organ of meaning.” C.S. Lewis
@nessisonett yeah, I’ve seen lots of times in games where you’ll pick up a collectible or something and have a 5 second window where opening the menu will take you to the corresponding page but this is the first time I think I’ve seen proximity be the catalyst. Very neat.
“Reason is the natural order of truth; but imagination is the organ of meaning.” C.S. Lewis
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