Topic: Crunch Culture

@nessisonett At this point I need to re-read Name of the Wind and Wise Man’s Fear if we do ever get the 3rd book because I’ve forgotten all the plot lines. But yes, I’ve given up hope as well.

Rothfuss must either be the most obsessive perfectionist writer ever, or a lazy daydreamer who has lost focus. GRR Martin is similarly sparse with releases, but he would at least show some slow progress as he traveled around living in medieval castles for inspiration. Things really kicked into gear once he contracted for the show with HBO. And now that the show is over, he’ll probably slow down the releases again.

Wow there's much to read here since I last checked.

From what I gather, everyone defines crunch differently and most see it as a necessary evil, if it's to be considered an evil at all.

One thing I will say is I don't think monetary compensation is the end all be all that some of you make it out to be but that's just my outlook.

Also I don't think saying it happens in other industries is a very good excuse. I'd prefer it didn't happen to anyone in any industry and thus I avoid spending money at certain places for this reason.

In regards to this industry though, while I concede that the situation at CDPR might not be all that dire, broadly speaking they're just video games and I really don't need anyone sacrificing their health and happiness to make them.

In the end, as someone alluded to earlier (i think @nessisonett) this is something that, if it needs addressed at all, should probably be done at the legislative level.

@zupertramp I’ve boycotted products before but I don’t expect change, I just don’t want my money going to certain people or companies. I know fine well I’m not making a difference but it makes me feel better 😂

@nessisonett Yeah that's pretty much my view, though I am slightly bothered by the persistent narrative that it's on us as consumers to affect change. Nevertheless, I try where I can because what's the alternative really?

Did you guys see what Adrian Chmielarz (founded People Can Fly) recently said about crunch? Really fascinating read (for some reason he put his thoughts on Facebook, so I am not linking it). A CDPR employee even responded...Interesting stuff.

@batwing47 I don’t really trust anything Chmielarz says due to his concerted efforts to bang the drum for Gamergate with a smile and a ‘keep it civil, guys’. Bad faith gremlin of a man. He’s mouthing off as usual without actually knowing anything about Cyberpunk’s development.

@nessisonett
I am fairly new to actively engaging in the ongoings of the gaming industry (I have been a casual fan for years though). Do you mind explaining what Gamergate is? I looked it up, but none of the sites I found were clear on it. Is it similar to Comicsgate (a bunch of bigots mad about increased diversity in comics)?

I still have no idea what Gamergate is either and that's that I have spent time reading up on it, watching interviews, etc.

@zupertramp @batwing47 Yep I gave up trying to get my head round that one long ago. Not a rabbit hole i wanna go down.

Gamergate was two things: It started off with Brianna Wu and some other journalists raising valid concerns over ethics in gaming journalism because the gaming companies basically have the journalists by the short and curlies - if the journalist doesn’t play ball, the publisher can withhold review copies and effectively prevent the gaming journalist from being able to compete. There is a direct financial relationship and that is a concern.

Of course, the internet happened and that nuanced conversation was very quickly drowned out by what can only be described as a ***** storm of misogyny , to the point where Brianna Wu and a bunch of other female gaming journalists were doxed and receive credible death threats that the police got involved in. Internet continued to show the worst of itself and gamergate continued to become synonmous with this latter half, of gamers being horrible to women.

@JohnnyShoulder @zupertramp @batwing47 .... now you probably wish you didn’t know

@batwing47 Considering the last time I tried to explain it on this group of sites my inbox filled up rather a lot, I think I’ll just say to read up on it through a variety of sources online. Honestly, the Wikipedia page is relatively OK for a general overview, all things considered. It’s similar to Comicsgate though, despite the insistence of ‘it’s about ethics in game journalism’. Any actual arguments were drowned out as it very very quickly turned into a manufactured culture war and backlash against progressivism in the video game industry.

@batwing47 Hey, completely off-topic maybe, but I just wanted to say you're very welcome here to come and engage. Hope to see you around!

I work for a company where a huge amount of my colleagues are extremely passionate and bought into the business. We're a tech/production company and often launching new facilities. When this happens we know we're going to be working more than a 40 hour work week. Nobody really minds and we're proud to put in the work and then celebrating success.

There is a limit though. When I hear about people having to sleep in the office I think that's absurd unless it's a one off. "Crunch" is now being used as an umbrella term covering a wide range of conditions. So "Crunch" isn't inherently bad, listen to the facts and judge each case indecently. in CRPR case, it seems like they have a fair system. My one hope is that they're being flexible to those with kids etc who can't necessarily work 6 easily.

@mrobinson91 Thanks for bringing in your perspective here. I think that's a key factor a lot of stories about crunch overlook; they're so focused on the attention-grabbing examples, they rarely stop to ask whether the developers want to be working hard to polish their product. I've seen other people mention this in the topic already, but I know that I work my hardest right before a deadline, because of the "now or never" factor which is only amplified when you're working on something artistic and creative (because art is never finished; we just get it close enough).

Of course, that isn't to excuse some of the bad crunch we've seen exposed and, if an individual or team has a grievance against a publisher which places ludicrous expectations or last-minute deadlines on them without giving them a say, then more power to them. I'd also expect a company to provide full support to its workers during a crunch period (time-and-a-half for evenings and weekends, order in decent food three times a day, provide proper support for those who suffer burnout, etc.) especially if that crunch is predicted or, heck, even planned in advance. But then I'd expect the same for anybody working in any stressful job and this is where I might start to rant, so I'll leave it there.

@mrobinson91 I work in a similar environment and exceeding 40 hour work weeks for major launches requires some crazy hours but those are typically exceptions to the rule.

The current CDPR announcement that some extra paid hours are needed isn't that bad but it should also be treated with some scepticism because it has been reported (I stress reported) that they have been working more than 40 hour weeks already for many months. Indeed, I believe I read that CDPR crunched for 3 months just to get the E3 gameplay trailer done in time.

Not singling out CDPR as I have said, this is all reported and are probably far from the worst offenders. However I think the issue is that crunch culture can span months and months across a project. Every time a game misses a release window, they'll have been crunching. I read the other day that back at the start of the gen the studio heads behind Ryse on XB1 had boasted that they had ordered 11,500 evening meals and breakfasts for their staff because of the amount of extra hours needed over many months.

I enjoy the excitment of a software launch but I could not handle that intense period for months on end!

I think the only real way to avoid crunch is to not announce a game until 2 - 3 months before release.

The problem is, when you're working on something creative, it's never really finished. You can always put a few more hours in and make it better. So it's not necessarily as simple as blaming time management.

@Kidfried Thanks! Really appreciate that Push Square seems to attract more mature people than sites like IGN. Their comment section makes me consider headbutting an icepick.

I haven't heard form too many developers on this which leads me to believe it is a widespread problem. There have been some issues at Rockstar in the past that seem to be clear cut crunch, but, typically, the cries for change come from external sources.