Topic: Metaphor: ReFantazio Thread

Wow, a 94 on Metacritic right now for the PS5 version. 92 on the other platforms.

https://www.metacritic.com/game/metaphor-refantazio/

Studio Zero doesn't miss.

Unsurprisingly, the game is technically underwhelming. Looks like a PS3 game, and often runs like one too.

Curious to see what happens with those open world-y areas on Steam Deck.

@Ralizah slightly unrelated cuz this is more of a general note, but steam deck being so unable to ketchup with current hardware made me realize it isn’t the mustard race I expected it to be. Not that I’m shocked, I’ve learned to manage my expectations with stuff. But it’s definitely made decide to upgrade to a different rig sometime in the future, and it’s why I reverted back to having my series as my main system again despite initial plans.

@Yousef- Always best to keep expectations reasonable. Games that struggle a bit or don't run particularly well on current gen consoles probably won't have an amazing time on a wildly less powerful handheld.

I do keep a more powerful PC as a compliment to it, although I rarely use my PC for demanding AAA games. Still good to have around for games that just aren't good experiences on the deck, though, like Returnal, Final Fantasy XVI, and Dragon's Dogma 2.

Thankfully, reviews seem to suggest that Metaphor is largely a good experience on it, and my experience with the updated demo confirmed that. Town got a bit choppier, but that's largely because I went above a 30fps cap, since it held to 45fps most of the time.

I didn't realise Metaphor was running on the Persona 5 engine til that digital foundry video so that was interesting @Ralizah. I'd just assumed it was unreal engine like P3 Reload.

I'm not that much of a FPS snob unless it's really REALLY bad... But it is surprising how... Bad Metaphor seems to be running? Seems they needed a bit more time in the oven to polish it up and get everything optimsed properly.

That's basically what it is. I am most probably going to love the game (adored the demo) yet I fail to comprehend how such terrible visuals made less headway than the performance mode of FFVII Rebirth, an optional mode that actually runs that beautiful game at 60fps LOL
Here we have the worst of both worlds with dated visuals and poor frame rate. Great optimization, Atlus! XD

@HallowMoonshadow Like they said in the video, this engine really doesn't seem to be up to the task of running more demanding games. Metaphor runs fine in pretty much all the spots that are small and tightly designed, like in the Persona games, but larger areas suffer. This is an engine that was arguably limiting back on the PS3.

I'm hoping they move development over to Unreal Engine or something else going forward. P3R looks and runs great.

I know it was originally a Switch game, but SMT V: Vengeance honestly blows this out of the water in terms of performance and environmental density (also an UE game, as I recall).

@Nei I think big Square-Enix JRPGs get judged according to AAA standards, whereas Atlus titles are closer in budget and presentation to the stuff you see from Falcom (so on the higher end of the AA spectrum).

I dunno. Honestly, FFVII Rebirth looks like everything I want from a modern Final Fantasy game, so I'm annoyed it didn't do as well as I'd hoped.

But yeah, issues aside, Metaphor is fab and I'm really loving my time with it.

Preloading right now, my body is ready.

Still going through the demo, loving it. Is everyone splitting different archetypes in their early game? I’m going full ham two warrior archetypes with protagonist as mage

@Enriesto There'll be a lot of back-and-forth in terms of switching archetypes to suit the needs of the moment, I'm sure. I have my boy as a healer at the moment.

Played for an hour tonight and got deep into the Catacombs. This is REALLY scratching my Persona itch tbh.

Hope they take some cues from this for P6. Somewhat older cast, more balanced combat difficulty, etc.

@Bentleyma Good to know. It seems like Atlus was careful not to hide any trophies behind content in the prologue, at least.

Funnily enough the difficulty for the content immediately after the demo ends feels like it ramps sharply. Like all the balance effort went into that demo. Played the demo on normal and it felt great
Dropped the main game to easy as I was just getting frustrated. May turn it back up again later.

I like the flexibility involved with this game's twist on Personas, which make them more of an interchangeable class system. Of course, characters seems to have certain proficiencies regardless, but I feel like this is going to allow a lot of great tactical options in the future.

Not as big a fan of going back to three different types of physical attacks again, but oh well. I like everything else about the game so far.

Just completed the first major story arc around 10 hours in,

@Pizzamorg I think that's just the beginning of the game being easy. Difficulty feels very nicely balanced so far. Perfectly satisfying on Normal. Akin to SMT V, where you can blow through enemies if you know what you're doing, but still have to stay on your toes.

I also want to stress, having to play on a lower difficulty isn't a problem for me, I still get to enjoy the mechanics of boss encounters etc Just in a way that doesn't feel quite so gruelling and brutal. It was just more of an observation because it was like the game ticked over from demo to main and it was instantly way too hard for me 😂

Not got as far with this as I had hoped cause Diablo 4 really got its hooks in me in a way I didn't expect coming back. I have loaded up Metaphor on the Deck though to steal a few extra hours on it here and there. Have to say squashed down onto the Deck screen it looks very similar to me to Three Houses. Got that non-existent Nintendo Switch AA 😂

I am enjoying it though for sure. It is basically more Persona, but I like Persona, so that's fine me. Tackled a dungeon I missed in the demo because I didn't realise it would be as easy to access as it turned out to be. Spent some time in the desert area outside of the first city. Much like with Persona it gave me a few days to do whatever I wanted with, and I really appreciate the option to go online and see what other people would choose to do as I would be so lost otherwise.

Only thing I am feeling a little overwhelmed by right now is the Archetype system. One boss had clear mechanics like "don't use x type class" against this guy that gave me clear focus on what classes to use on everyone, but beyond that, I'm not grasping great what a good Archetype decision is considered to be.

Maybe it is in the menus somewhere and I'm just not seeing it, but at a glance I don't feel like its clear who has what affinity for what class, what the downside of classes are over others, and maybe there are neither and its intentionally open to allow you to slap whatever combo of Archetypes you wanted on your Party without penalty, but I wouldn't mind some direction even if it was optional.

Like I swapped Strohl to the Monk class cause I was constantly running out of MP and there are currently no ways to get MP potions beyond finding them in dungeons and this decision felt like a good one. But I've kinda been jumping around on Hulkenberg and the Protag cause it is not clear what archetype for them is considered a good or bad choice. I'm currently running Hulkenberg as a Warrior, because I seem to run into way more enemies that are resistant to magic than physical attacks, and the combo move Bamboo Splitter wrecks bosses and then I usually have the Protag on the backline as a support class providing buffs or heals. I think this is good?

And if you are wondering why I didn't leave Strohl as the Warrior and make Hulkenberg the Monk, well it was mostly cause when I changed Strohl I was still experimenting with her base class but realised I didn't care for it all that much. Best part about it is if you put it on the Protag he can deflect attacks in the overworld so one hit doesn't necessarily send you straight into a disadvantageous turn based battle.

I am just pointing this out because once it hit me the game became much simpler: if you choose mage as your MC archetype, fast battles (real time combat vs weaker enemies) will refill your MPs. It's kind of OP.
Also the water merchant at the market in front of the Cathedral sells a limited amount of MP replenishing stuff.

I have finished the first narrative arc, loving the game so far, especially strategizing with archetypes and team attacks. Not a big fan of some the status alterations and their names as they can get a bit convoluted. "Oh, now Strohl has anxiety so I cannot use my archetype skills and the enemies will not lose their action points if they attack him".

Also: gotta love Grius' plan. I found it hysterical. No, but seriously: at this point just try to kill the man by shooting poison in his mouth with a water gun.

Oh is that party wide @Nei?! I thought it was just the person running the archetype only. That's a game changer for sure. Also thanks for the tip with the merchant didn't even think to go there to be honest, I just went to the lady who sells all the potions. Weird they aren't in the same place.

@Pizzamorg Yeah, it is! Until they patch it, seems broken to me XD

Grotesque Guptauros feels like a nod to SMT IV nod. Love how connected this feels to the rest of their JRPG legacy.

@Pizzamorg The good thing about properly balanced press turn combat is that it can be satisfying even on lower difficulties (versus something like Persona 5 being stupidly easy even on the highest difficulty, ugh).

Yeah, this game has given me mad Three Houses vibes since the beginning. For both good and bad reasons, lol. I need to play on Deck for a bit and see how everything fares in Tradia Desert. The dungeons do really well in handheld form.

Well, I just gave into the hype and purchased the game myself today. I've actually never played any other Atlus game before this. The Persona series always intrigued me, but the school setting put me off as it just didn't seem that interesting to me. The whole fantasy politics is way more up my alley... so I decided to take the plunge. Aside from no previous experience with Atlus, I gotta say I also have never really finished a JRPG. I'm familiar with turn-based combat of course, but it's been hit or miss for me whether I enjoy it. Combat systems like in Divinity: Original Sin and X-Com I enjoy, but the demo for Octopath Traveler 2 put me off with its repetitive combat encounters.

I've now put in two hours, so we're very early on in the game, but it's made a good first impression. I was surprised by how different the cinematics were from each other. From full-on anime to in-game rendered to pretty much non-voiced static dialogue. I'm not particularly a fan of the not voiced dialogues, but I'm pretty sure that's a staple of the JRPG genre so I'm not all too fussed about it. However, it does irritate me how they still put in voice lines for unvoiced dialogue that are either barely relevant to what's being said or not at all. I'd rather they'd have just kept it completely silent then instead of forcing that in. I also think that while exploring the world the game is way too hyperactive with random voice lines left, right and in front of me everywhere I walk. It's like sensory overload, and so often these voice lines seem to just repeat as well. It was giving me traumatic flashbacks to the Divinity: Original Sin Cyseal market... not in the mood for cheese, anyone? It felt like that but on steroids.

I'm actually a big fan of the combat system so far though. It feels intuitive, flows nicely and they end quick when it's just farming simple creatures. It's pretty much all I could ask, because I absolutely despite to grind for levels in RPGs, so to at least make that process painless and swift is already a huge pro on my side. I'm also interested to see where the story goes from here. I'm definitely invested in Strohl's character already as well and was sad when I thought he died for a second there. Excited to play more of it along with all of you!

I also disliked the school element of Persona, I think over the years I better understood the intention behind why it was there, but I still haven't come around to loving that part of the game.

However, it is funny because I was playing Metaphor and thinking to myself man... that is about as refined of a Persona experience as I've had, but it is weird, I just can't quite figure out what they did differently that has had such a profound effect on making this feel like a better paced, more focused, experience.

Then it clicked.

Oh yeah, the school is gone.

Mechanically very little has really been done to alter the formula in a physical way, but when you're asked to do busywork to stay up to date with random people in town, or to study for a test or keep up with your after school clubs or whatever it may be, it really makes the busy work obviously busy work. Some of that may have been intentional, but understanding the narrative intent doesn't automatically make doing that stuff fun.

Here when the game asks you to do busy work, you're working on some grand goal, or going on a quest, or building an army or whatever fantasy flavoured endeavour it may ask for. And while it may be mostly just narrative dressing, it really does positively alter the perception of you feeling like you are doing meaningful activities in your down time, when really you're doing much of the same stuff we've been doing in these games now for like two decades.