Topic: Moderation

I want to say to @get2sammyb that I fully support Push Square on disabling comments on the BLM article. While most of us (especially those who frequent the forums) are perfectly capable of reasoned debate, stuff like this risks the comments becoming a dumping ground for nasty stuff to be said. So I encourage PS to do so again if such sensitive topics come up again.

@zupertramp As somebody with an extremely Irish Catholic background in the sectarian capital of Europe... I had no idea where ‘beyond the pale’ came from and now feel ashamed that I used it! Wow, got to love the systematic anti-Irish sentiment that a phrase essentially meaning ‘the sorta rubbish those Irish buffoons living outside our incredible British Empire would get up to’ is so widely used 😂😂

Obviously we want to keep the comments open always, but it only took a few minutes to see which way that thread was going. It's a shame, but best to get out in front of it in that instance, I think.

@nessisonett Aww, well I assure you I didn't bring it up to call you out. There are just so many phrases we use over here that are British leftovers and it wasn't until now that I wondered, are Britons more likely to know their origins.

Anyway I'm just fascinated by idioms. No worries if you didn't know. I'm always coming across particular bits of language I've internalized with no real idea as to their meaning.

@zupertramp I admire your desire to have reasoned discussions but the issue is that a lot of people don't. The reason why I asked about the Paradox is because the goal for some people is not to have a reasoned debate, but to suppress, intimidate or reach the eyes or ears of those who may sit in the middle on the issue. And I know, it's silly to think that a video game website shouldn't be so stringent with discussions. But think about what online gaming's like due to Gamergate back in the day.

If a woman so much as says a word on the mic, there's still a ton of people who jump on and say things like, "A girl!? Hey! Make me a sandwich! Boobs or gtfo! etc, etc." Which discourages women from hopping on the games. I'm an African American and if people detect it in my speech, the N-word suddenly starts flying. And all of that has worked to make online gaming accessible to a limited few. And it's very easy for that to happen anywhere if left unchecked.

You see it as a chance for reasoned debate, which is admirable. But what about a black person who happened to be curious about the theme and believes in the issue but who doesn't participate in comments or forums who may hop on Pushsquare for an article, scrolls down the comments and sees all the vitriol only to be discouraged on visiting the site again because they feel targeted? And none of this is to call you out or anything btw. I just enjoy discussions and wanted to add this perspective to the thread.

@zupertramp "I saw it as an opportunity"

Oh to be young... <3

Boobs or gtfo

@Brydontk I can only say this as someone who is a Latino, but whenever I see decisions made on behalf of my culture, ethnicity, etc. I always ask myself three questions:

What's the catch?
Why am I being treated like a child?
Who even asked you in the first place?

I think black people, just like Latinos like myself, just like the rest of the human race, don't want to get lumped into a group just based on skin color.
Because it's the content of your character that really matters. We are all individuals after all!

Having said that, I think it's better for the site as a whole to just close comments that have sensitive topics. Because people are not rational all the time. Sometimes we have off days and say things we don't really mean, and wish we could take back. Sometimes we get mislead or misunderstand something.
This is a video game website! Come on, no one cares about your politics. They just care that they got upset.

@Brydontk I actually really appreciate the insight. We're definitely coming at this from different perspectives (me being whiter than a glass of milk and a paper plate in a snowstorm) so I value your input and admittedly I hadn't considered the kind of scenario you put forth.

I guess my thinking was this could have been an opportunity to individually check those being, to put it gently, not nice. Perhaps even banning them from just that topic specifically, if that's possible, so the adults can talk. Because as it is now, it's like a bunch of people stormed into a debate yelling obscenities just so the whole endeavor gets shut down.

In the end it's all good though. I really do understand this being the call to make. It's definitely preferable to just letting that section become a mouthpiece for hate. Plus again, it's clear the mods were being proactive as evidenced by their preface to the comments and I can hardly be critical of that.

@Kidfried Lol I mean I don't think it's an age thing. In fact the older I get the more I see the importance of civilized discourse. But the glaring naivete of my statement isn't lost on me.

@zupertramp I think the people that run the site have tried all of that in the past (apart from blocking a user from commenting on a specific article, not sure if that can be done). Unfortunately some of the more undesirable comments still do get through and will end up in upsetting folks and causing a reaction by others. Not the ideal course of action, but not an ideal situation, and probably for the best in this instance.

@Constable_What I mean, I never said I spoke for all black people or for hispanic people. I'm just saying the purpose of the comic I posted on the other page is to point out the Paradox of Tolerance. The idea being that freedom of speech left completely unchecked leads to the suppression (or attempted suppression) of other people's speech; typically people in disenfranchised groups. So good for you if that's how you feel as a Latino, but I just provided an example. And it's not a political thing (But I meeeeean, everything is political, that's what politics is. Good luck avoiding it), it's literally about how to provide a space, or spaces, that can include, or make the most amount of people feel welcome, in the discussion as possible. And I agree that things should be about the content of their character. Still sucks to have the N-Word flung at me when I hop on online games though. In that moment, strangers don't know who I am or the content of my character, they just care that I'm black. And that matters.

@zupertramp Ha no worries. It's very clear that you didn't come from a place of malice, so I can have a discussion with you. So yeah, it's not like I'm against having discussions and changing people's minds. I just feel that there are just times where you pick your battles. If the BLM comments stayed open, it's like @JohnnyShoulder said, nothing's stopping them from just making more accounts if they get banned to keep being toxic. Might as well just let the article stand on its own and let people come to their own conclusions.

@Brydontk I never said you spoke for all black people, I was just giving my perspective based on the context of the situation. You know, as a fellow individual voice (One that fits into another ethnic group); I was largely agreeing with you. The statement I made about politics was just a general statement aimed at people who constantly espouse their political beliefs and how that doesn't fit onto this website; I used "your" as a general way to address people. That might have been confusing.

Anyway, that's why I'm content with the comments being closed on the BLM PSN theme article. The conversation would have been unproductive and incendiary given enough time, and this isn't the site for that discussion anyway.

I'm not black but have gotten called the N-word. Other stuff too. Peoples' opinions by and large are insignificant when it all comes down to it. It's just noise in a sea of static, barely even faces in a crowd. That's just me though, I'm not one for trying to remove the salt from the sea so to speak.

I want to applauded @get2sammy for shutting down the comments cause yes they do get nasty, my thought on the subject is if you are concerned about the comment section becoming a problem why post an article on that subject anyway. Yes I understand it's a PS4 theme but really was it such earth shattering news that everyone had to know about? I could understand if it was like a leak for something about the PS5 or a new game but honestly was it something that people needed to know?

Not criticizing or telling you want to do I am just curious that all. To me it just seems that if the article is going to cause that much trouble in the comment section then why post it?

@Tasuki
Considering some of the articles on this website, I don't think posting the news of a new theme is something that should be avoided, but if you're concerned about how the comments could get don't even open that section for discussion for a second. It's a shame that's where we are, but that's the gaming community in general, can't talk about anything without it devolving into idiocy no matter which side of the fence people are on.

@Constable_What Ahh ok, fair. Sorry about that. Sensitive subject so I think I misread your intentions

@Brydontk No need to apologize. I understand! It's hard to convey and understand tone with text. I have, admittedly, a long winded way of typing my thoughts out to try and avoid confusion and add tone, but then it becomes a whole wall of text, and then it seems like I'm lecturing people or grandstanding. I try and edit things, but then I mess up the editing and suddenly I delete words that shouldn't be deleted or I delete context or tone.

It's a whole thing. Takes two to tango. All that.
I do get into a lot of misunderstandings on the internet, so I definitely need to work on putting down what I'm thinking into text. Doesn't help that everyone is really really, understandably, tense right now.

@Constable_What

Ha. This is so me. I try to preemptively cover every angle as to not be misunderstood but feel I just end up writing preachy, pseudo intellectual essays no one wants to read.

Edit: lol i originally misspelled pseudo.

Thanks for all the feedback... it sounds like most people are of the same thought process here.

We always want to be able to cover these topics when its newsworthy, and this was. NOT posting it would have sent a negative political message. We allowed comments to begin with, hoping for a normal discussion, but as others have said it didn't take long at all to descend into a mess. Therefore the best way forward was to remove/disable the comments on that article.

At the end of the day we want Push Square to be a community that discusses video games, talking politics within games should be fine, but at the moment it seems the wider community isn't able to have a sensible discussion on it, so we'll likely just shutdown any discussions that go off course.

Thanks for your support