Topic: Moderation

@mookysam Any kind of hate speech or bigotry would count as abusive behaviour. Please report any posts like that if you encounter any.

@get2sammyb Thank you for your reply. However, it does not address my comment. Ant said some time ago that he was looking into making changes and I was enquiring about the status of these.
Further, your community rules do not specifically list sexuality or transgender status and are notable by their absence. However, your community rules do list sex, race and disability, so I am perplexed by this omission. Whilst I am sure it is simply an oversight, please could you explain why sexuality and transgender are not listed and why you seem hesitant to discuss making this change?

@mookysam Thanks for posting this!

Kudos for the Blue Velvet reference.

@mookysam hey. Sorry for the late reply — Sunday is the one day I try to stay away from the Internet! I would echo the sentiment that Sammy has, in that we don't tolerate ANY form of abuse towards other users. The rules aren't designed to be an exhaustive list of all those things as they should all fall under the same category of "abuse".

That said, I'm all for making the rules clearer where possible, and have therefore amended them to say:

"Do not post offensive remarks towards others; Show respect for all users, remarks about, but not limited to, racism, sexism, gender, sexuality, origin, creed and handicap will NOT be tolerated and will most likely be deleted by staff, and the poster may be warned, suspended or immediately banned."

Therefore I would hope that makes it clearer that this isn't a list of what isn't allowed and everything else is fine. If you feel there is better terminology that can be used as the general topics of abuse then I'm open to suggestions.

As for the on-going progress that is happening behind the scenes, we're still working on that. We have a company wide meeting later this month where aspects of this are being discussed with approaches to community and also moderation. It may result in some big changes which all need to be developed into the workflow of our CMS and therefore takes a little while.

Personally I feel these discussions we're having go beyond the scope of the original post for this thread, but its all interconnected. Once we know our end goal we'll be able to implement some short term measures that help us get to that goal faster. I still believe that we have a better community than the vast majority of gaming websites, but naturally we're aware it's far from perfect and therefore believe there is always room for improvement.

cc. @Kidfried

@antdickens Thank you for clarifying the Community Rules and I genuinely appreciate all the work you put in. As for terminology, may I suggest modifying the phrasing to something along the lines of; “Show respect for all users regardless of race, sex, gender, sexuality or disability [etc...]. Hate speech and bigotry on these grounds will not be tolerated...” The current wording inadvertently suggests that discussions surrounding sexism, racism or representation in gaming are not permissible. Would it also be possible to change the word handicap to disability, as handicap is an outdated term.
Beyond that do you have a plan for making users more aware of these rules? I guess this ties into the changes you will be discussing. If you are taking on board user perspectives, please note @Kidfried’s earlier suggestions including being more proactive and placing warnings at the end of articles the writers feels may be likely to attract unacceptable comments. This is something the site has done before - specifically regarding users posting spoilers for The Last of Us Part II - so does not seem an unreasonable approach.

I’m looking forward to seeing what other changes are made in the future. I certainly agree that this is a good community, which is why this topic is so important to me and other users of this site.

@mookysam thanks, whilst the rule is prefaced with 'offensive remarks' I can see how the singular 'remarks' may be slightly confusing as you suggest. Therefore I've made a further tweak that hopefully makes it even clearer:

"Do not post offensive remarks towards others; Show respect for all users. Hate speech, bigotry or offensive remarks about, but not limited to, racism, sexism, gender, sexuality, origin, creed and disability will NOT be tolerated and will most likely be deleted by staff, and the poster may be warned, suspended or immediately banned."

We've discussed internally many ways to highlight the rules. For example, making users check boxes against rules before they post for the first time, or periodically. Perhaps making people re-confirm their reading of said rules after infringements and a strikes system for violations. As for placing at the end of the articles, I think that is already current practice. Sometimes its hard to predict the course of a comments section before it goes off topic, and in those instances admins usually post further warnings in the comments telling people to stay on topic.

At the end of the day, the issue we have is that the people that often cause the problems aren't those that respect/read the rules anyway... but there lies the challenge.

@antdickens Just wanted to say, thank you for taking on such direct feedback and incorporating it into the site's rulebook. However you reinforce them going forward, I think the gesture you've made here speaks volumes, and I for one am grateful.

Further thanks to @mookysam for re-raising this issue, and for finding the right words.

@RogerRoger you're welcome. It's easily the most difficult part of our job, everyone wants freedom of speech but it's just not that simple is it? I'm still hopeful things can always improve and we can use technology to continue to do that. Keep the feedback coming, we appreciate the insights!

@antdickens You want more feedback? Oh, well, in that case... [cracks knuckles]

Only kidding!

@antdickens Thanks for the extra adjustments and for taking on board mine and other users’ feedback.

@RogerRoger Cheers, that is nice of you to say. @Kidfried deserves extra kudos for creating this topic and bringing all of these issues to attention.

Just want to say thank you for locking the comments on the BLM article. It was already getting out of hand after about 10 comments and would only lead to arguments. Other than my faith in humanity having somewhat lowered, nipping it in the bud stops any unrest.

@get2sammyb I want to second what @nessisonett said. It kinda sucks that it has to be done but I applauded your decision.

I was kinda looking forward to the discussion but respect the decision nonetheless.

So I've been trying to get more active in PS forums and found this one. I wonder how any/everyone feels about the concept of the Paradox of Tolerance. According to that, shutting down the comments on the BLM article was probably the best way to go. https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url=https%3A%2F%2Ftwitter...

@Brydontk I feel like we're now running the risk of this thread becoming a sort of proxy for the other but I do want to say I'm not sure shutting down all conversation is the only way, or even the best way, to avoid that paradox.

Certainly it's possible to weed out the particularly egregious comments whilst also promoting dialogue on a topic that sorely deserves our attention. You may not sway anyone in the comments section of a game forum but words are our only peaceful means of working things out and/or changing minds. Seems a pity not to at least try.

@zupertramp The first few comments on that article were beyond the pale. When there’s roughly 15 comments on the article and about 75% had the words ‘Marxist’, ‘terrorist’ or ‘Blue lives matter’, you know that there’s going to be zero productive discussion.

@nessisonett No I hear you. I saw it as an opportunity but I get it, it was likely headed nowhere good.

I'm mostly sad the initial disclaimer meant so little to so many. It's like why bother I guess.

Edit: completely off topic but when people in the UK use the phrase "beyond the pale" are they aware of the reference? just realizing most Americans have no idea to what we are referring but I imagine you guys actually might. I find that funny for some reason.

@zupertramp Just go read the comments on the PlayStation twitter account if you want your faith in humanity lowered further.

@Thrillho I can only imagine. I'll take your word for it. My penchant for somewhat reasoned political debate makes me a target from all sides so I just stay off Twitter. Twitter is where you take a side and defend it religiously, apparently.