Forums

Topic: PS4 Pro supersampling on 1080p

Posts 1 to 20 of 20

gollumb82

Hi!
I've checked for a topic on this but haven't found one. I might not have done it correctly, so forgive me if such a topic has already been discussed here. I'd like to ask the community to share their thoughts on using supersampling when playing games on a PRO on a 1080p display. I haven't got a 4K TV yet and I wonder if its worth the hassle. I ran some tests on GT Sport and see no difference in the graphics department (or it might seem a bit more blurry) but the replays are affected negatively- they run slower for sure. Any thoughts/advice? Does it make sense to keep this option on?

When in doubt, go digital.

Tiger77

Hi !

I found the feature not very helpful, it demands quite some system recources to make games look a little bit sharper.
I used it on Driveclub, that game runs fine with it.
On older games it's prob. most useful - and there are prob. lists on the web with games that work fine with it.

So good luck, mate ! (and you really need to get that 4K OLED , it looks pretty great !)

Tiger77

gollumb82

@Tiger77
Thanks for the reply. I kind of expected it to use more system resources and that's not going to cut it, especially with the PRO already loud as it is (my gaming laptop is quieter). I do need to look around for a 4K TV set. Is OLED the way to go now?

When in doubt, go digital.

Tiger77

Yes ,it is ! IMHO

Tiger77

JohnnyShoulder

@gollumb82 It depends on your particular circumstances, if you game in a room that can get light then Oled have been known to suffer and then there is (albeit minimal) risk of burn in too.

I found the below video very useful when trying to decide which type of TV to get.

We are now in a world of people being offended for other people who they think should be offended, who arent offended.

PSN: JohnnyShoulder

gollumb82

Thanks guys. I've already switched off supersampling permanently as it was making the console way too loud and hot. Now it's within acceptable limits while playing without a headset on. I will watch that clip later today, though having checked the prices on those OLEDs I think I'll have to look for something cheaper.

When in doubt, go digital.

JohnnyShoulder

@gollumb82 If you can go see a demo of a couple of sets, I was a bit cynical of uhd, but now I've seen it for myself I can see what all the fuss is about. And this is just with films and TV, as I've got a OG ps4 I only get HDR for gaming.

We are now in a world of people being offended for other people who they think should be offended, who arent offended.

PSN: JohnnyShoulder

gollumb82

Ok, I'll try that. I've heard people say that HDR is more of a gamechanger than 4K itself, but it's always better to have the whole package. Thanks for the useful tips.

When in doubt, go digital.

JohnnyShoulder

@gollumb82 No problem. Personally I'm finding 4k + hdr more of a game changer, but yet to experience that in gaming. HDR is good and an improvement but it's not blown me away or anything. I did have a very good SDR TV though. And I've turn off gaming mode as I found it was dulling everything, it all popped out as soon as I turned it off. I've yet to have a proper play around with the settings though, and finding anything online is tricky as my new TV is only available in Europe.

We are now in a world of people being offended for other people who they think should be offended, who arent offended.

PSN: JohnnyShoulder

gollumb82

@JohnnyShoulder
Hmm, I did notice that game mode on my TV changes the image a bit, and not in a good way. I'll switch it off and see what happens. Thanks again.

When in doubt, go digital.

BAMozzy

Super-sampling isn't a game changer. What its doing is using more pixels to sample from to determine the 'best' colour for 1 pixel. In the case of 4k super-sampling, you have 4 pixels for every single pixel at 1080p. Super-sampling is essentially looking at those 4 4k pixels to decide what colour the single 1080p pixel should be.

Every pixel can be just 1 colour - regardless of the resolution of the content. Super Sampling is essentially the opposite of upscaling where an image is spit apart to cover the 'screen size' with all the gaps given a 'colour'. If the gap happens to be on a hard edge - a black next to a white for example, when split apart to full the screen, upscaling wouldn't fill the gap with a black or white colour, but a grey which ends up softening the upscaled image. Super-sampling though would have 4 colours (at 4k) to decide which colour that single pixel should be - its sampling the colours of the 4 pixels that 4k would have to determine what colour to use. It maybe the same as what a native 1080p would be but it could also be different too.

Some may say the Super sampled 1080p image is a little more refined. If I had to choose between a super sampled HD image but with some minor dips to frame rate - the same as if you were playing on a 4k screen, or forcing the game to 1080p and the result gives a better frame rate - as games like Kingdom Hearts 3 or the Last Guardian do, then I would force 1080p every-time. The Pro isn't the best when it comes to 4k gaming and the increase in resolution the Pro offers often is 1440p or under. You are not losing that much by dropping down to 1080p - both images look soft because of the upscaling - so its often better to force 1080p rather than play at the increased resolution - and that's on a 4k screen too let alone those still using HD TV's.

The only time its beneficial to have super sampling on is the games that don't offer any frame rate boost by being forced to 1080p. If a game plays at locked 30fps regardless, Super-sampling is perhaps useful to HD TV users and has NO impact on 4k TV owners. Super-sampling is such a minor benefit and only beneficial to games that don't benefit from a boost in frame rates.

A pessimist is just an optimist with experience!

Why can't life be like gaming? Why can't I restart from an earlier checkpoint??

Feel free to add me but please send a message so I know where you know me from...

PSN: TaimeDowne

gollumb82

@BAMozzy
Wow, you sure know more about this stuff than I do! Thank you, that was very insightful. I already bid farewell to supersampling and I'm going to wait for OLED TVs to drop in price a bit before I buy one as they do seem impressive. Thanks everyone! I guess the thread can be locked now.

When in doubt, go digital.

NoCode23

My PRO will whine with supersampling on while playing some games. So i leave it off, and with supersampling off my PRO is quiet enough for me.

Edited on by NoCode23

NoCode23

themcnoisy

@gollumb82 go all in on boost mode. Makes a huge difference to Yakuza, infamous ss and ff15. Boost mode is 100% the best way to play at 1080.

Super sampling on the other hand is a bit of a marketing phrase as bam alludes too. It doesn't actually improve anything as the same amount of pixels are on the screen.

Forum Best Game of All Time Awards

PS3 Megathread 2019: The Last of Us
Multiplat 2018: Horizon Zero Dawn
Nintendo 2017: Super Mario Bros 3
Playstation 2016: Uncharted 2
Multiplat 2015: Final Fantasy 7

PSN: mc_noisy

Flurpsel

@BAMozzy how do I know whether turning supersampling off will make it run at a higher fps, without testing it for every single game?

Flurpsel

BAMozzy

@Flurpsel Try researching it on youtube. If the game is running at 30fps with super sampling on, then turning it off won't make it suddenly jump to 60fps. Games like RDR2, Kingdom Hearts 3, Last Guardian etc all suffer from inconsistent frame-rates - some more than others so turning off Super sampling forces these games to run at 1080p and use what-ever resources that frees up to improve the frame rate.

Its not a built in settings option in the game itself and you have to do it at system level to try and force the game to start up believing its connected to a HD TV and, because super-sampling is turned off, it can't run at 1440p and supersample down.

There isn't a list of games this benefits - not that I know of anyway. Its being forced at System level and its a side affect that some games benefit from. If you are having problems with the frame rate, using the Pro's System settings to force the game to run at 1080p may well boost the frame rate but some games have 1080p (performance) modes so you most likely won't get any advantage by forcing the game into HD at a system level - no more than switching to performance mode in the first place. With Performance modes though, you can often switch back and forth with ease but you will have to quit out of the game to change the System settings.

I don't really bother myself as I keep my output at 2160p as I have a 4k TV. I don't have the majority (if any) that do benefit from forcing the game to HD on Playstation. As such, I am only going on memory as to which I recall seeing with Digital Foundry's testing. It seems its those games that run over 1080p without giving you any choices in the games menu's. If the Console is set to 1080p output but you have supersampling on, the game can still run at more than 1080p and then be super sampled down to fit the screens resolution. Turning off super-sampling forces the game to run at HD and therefore free up some resources which gives some games a boost.

If you can't find a video of the games breakdown in res/performance, if its not playing as smoothly as you would like, quit out and force the game through the system settings to run at 1080p and see if that makes it play better. If you are on a 1080p TV anyway, you have to judge whether the Super sampling actually makes a worthwhile difference but I would keep super sampling off by default and only turn it on if I were to hear about a game that doesn't benefit from being forced to run at a lower resolution. If a game is locked to 30/60fps regardless, then at least you can turn SS on if you think its worthwhile. It maybe better to run at a native HD than supersample a reconstructed 2160p with Temporal Anti-Aliasing that softens the image a bit - the native HD image will look better....

A pessimist is just an optimist with experience!

Why can't life be like gaming? Why can't I restart from an earlier checkpoint??

Feel free to add me but please send a message so I know where you know me from...

PSN: TaimeDowne

BAMozzy

I didn't refer to any article as that one assumes that Super Sampling is the best option at all times. However, turning off SS and forcing the game to run at 1080p also free's up some resources which benefit the frame rate. The article makes out that the Pro users are missing out on some visual upgrade without Super Sampling turned on but that's not always the case RDR2 - because of the implementation of CB rendering, and not the best example - when that is 'super sampled' down, it looks considerably worse than Native HD which is much sharper and cleaner.

The only time to use SS is if the game runs at a locked frame rate at the higher resolution - might as well see if the super sampling improves the PQ but most games these days don't run at a locked 30/60fps. Its that image vs frame rate debate but you are still getting just a 1080p image in either case. Super sampling looks at the colours vying for 1pixel at a lower res and picks the 'best' colour. In other words, its sampling 2-4 colours to determine which would be the best colour to make that 1 pixel. That works well with native higher res images but not so well if the image is having to be reconstructed and softened with TAA.

The article is correct in that if a game is running locked at 30fps and say 1440p, you don't get any benefits of the Pro if you have to run the game at 1080p so SS can give a 'small' bonus to the visuals but if the game doesn't run well and you can only use super sampling (like the X for example), you are getting a small, if not imperceptible improvement to visuals but the frame rate is just as bad - all that power wasted on running a game at UHD for it to be shrunk down to 1080p anyway when it could be used to improve performance.

Basically, is a system level way to pick between Visuals (SS on) vs Performance (SS off).

A pessimist is just an optimist with experience!

Why can't life be like gaming? Why can't I restart from an earlier checkpoint??

Feel free to add me but please send a message so I know where you know me from...

PSN: TaimeDowne

Flurpsel

@BAMozzy thank you for response. Disappointing that the Pro isn't marketed more towards 1080p users. I think they missed a chance there. Clearly it was only aimed at 4k users and the supersampling was just an afterthought.

I was playing Ride 2 and with SS it still performed better than on a base PS4 and the visual effect was very noticable. very smooth edges and no flickering when compared to base PS4, clearly an upgrade even for 1080P users. But what I understand from you is some games it can hurt performance because the 4K mode isnt flawless 30 all the time either.

All in all Im not disappointed with the pro. It not nearly as noisy as some people claimed and it was a good deal on black friday plus I can sell my base PS4 so its really a minor investment. I'll enjoy this for the coming year at least untill the 5 is laumched

Edited on by Flurpsel

Flurpsel

BAMozzy

@Flurpsel It is somewhat disappointing that people with HD TV's still don't understand the benefit a Pro can offer and mostly think its 'visual' improvement. With games not running at a full HD, they could see a benefit from that alone but the biggest advantage is game performance.

Super-sampling a 1440p game down to fit a 1080p screen does have some benefits as you yourself have experienced. However, if a game is consistently dropping frames to try and run at 1440p, I would rather opt to turn super-sampling off and get a much more consistent, if not locked frame-rate.

The reason super-sampling option was added was because there were a few games released that ran at higher resolution than the PS4 and didn't drop frames. A game on PS4 ran at say 1080/30 and on Pro 1440/30 but if you only had a HD TV, the Pro ran the game at 1080/30 just like the PS4 - same visual settings etc. Therefore by turning on super-sampling, you got some benefit of owning a Pro.

Most often these days, the Pro has the better performance as the PS4 is 6yrs old. Even super-sampling down some games gives a better performance than the PS4. Basically, Super-sampling runs the game as if it was connected to a 4k TV so you get the same performance metric. However, in the case where games are not locked and performance isn't stable, if you keep super-sampling on, then you get that same inconsistent frame rate. Its better to force the game to run at a lower resolution and get more consistent frame rates. The ONLY time to use super-sampling is if the game runs consistently enough (if not locked). I don't think it should be on as a 'default' but to take advantage of those times when, as a Pro and HD TV user, you get 'nothing' extra. The game that runs at a locked 1080/30 on PS4 and, unless you turn on super-sampling, a locked 1080/30 on Pro too. That was more common in the early months of the Pro but 3yrs on, we don't see many 'locked' games at all - both in terms of resolution and frame rate.

Kingdom Hearts 3 is a good example where the 'best' and most consistent frame rate of ALL the consoles was on the PS4 Pro - but only if you forced the game to run at 1080p through the system settings. This gave a very consistent, but not flawless 60fps. If you turned on SS, the performance would drop and it was (I believe) the worst performance of the consoles (this was around launch and info from Digital Foundry) - the same performance as 4k TV owners got too - unless they forced the game to run at 1080p. DF themselves said that the only way to play it on a Pro was by forcing it to 1080p. Its become more common that forcing the game to 1080p is the only way to get consistent performance.

A pessimist is just an optimist with experience!

Why can't life be like gaming? Why can't I restart from an earlier checkpoint??

Feel free to add me but please send a message so I know where you know me from...

PSN: TaimeDowne

Top

  • Pages:
  • 1

Please login or sign up to reply to this topic