Returnal Is Sony's Second Most Unpopular PC Game at Launch

Welp it was a niche game on PS5 too

PC casuals. Great game.

What a shame. Personally, Returnal is my favourite game since Bloodborne. It's never going to get the hype it deserves.

Hopefully with the influx of PS5s available on store shelves not these early release games will see an increase boost in sales. Not a game that i personally enjoyed but i know its one that thousands did so its warranted.

That's pretty surprising considering this game seems like a great fit for PC. Maybe just lack of marketing? I never played it myself as I just generally don't like this type of game but games like Hades did very well on Steam so I'm not sure what went wrong here.

Maybe now sony will focus on their actual fanbase (the people who bought their console) and not a space that doesn't give a crap about their games.

recently had Callisto and Dead space, kinda niche on PS anyway and i know some were put off by how much progress you can lose by dying.

Amazing game. Well worth giving a go at a mate's house if they have PS5 and PS plus.

I guess it’s still worth it though to diminish their exclusives.

A proof that all the PCMR people complaining about console exclusives do it just to troll.
The majority of people who care enough about an exclusive game will purchase the corresponding console.

Save your porting money Sony. Hard to see how all of this is profitable.

Might be wrong, but I believe the reason is that PC players begrudge paying full price for a year old game.

Which is a shame, because its brilliant. But I can see both sides

It was fun at the start but the rogue like elements put me off from continuing it

@LordAinsley I bought it from CDKeys for £33. Played about 20 hours so far and loving it.

Shame but somewhat expected. Double dipped and got it on Steam. Fantastic port, looks absolutely incredible and runs silky smooth on my rig.

@Doublecell Or maybe it’s the fact that it is 70 quid when the game is available on PS plus catalogue or it’s about 2 years old now. And I have to agree with the last response to your comment. It’s the toxicity of folk with that mindset that give the playerbase on PS a bad name. Games should be available to people one way or another, having more options is beneficial to everyone including Sony

Why is sony wasting they’re time porting games to pc when they’re barely making money from them on pc.

@4kgk2

1- How many resources does it take away from actual development to port?

2- How much money does it cost them to do so? Have they made their money back already from the cost of the port? You don't know.

3- If you don't have shares in Sony, why do you care?

@Worlock_ed I know god of war and horizon sold the most out of the pc ports which only sold 2 or 3 more million copies on pc the rest of pc ports didn’t sold so well.

I can't help but think the game would have been much better if it wasn't roguelike and wasn't difficult. Those are the two things that put me off, but the roguelike alone completly lost me.

I tried it from Extra tier so I liked how it looked and played. It looked like it could have been Sonys own Mass Effect-alike game But once I met my first tough enemy and died, I switched it off and never touched it again. Only wanted to get a taste of it to see if i can accept the roguelike but no it doesn't work for me.

@4kgk2 That answers none of my questions but to answer your original one; Sony aren't wasting their time. A few extra sales for old games on a format that isn't competition is a win for everyone.

I thought Returnal will be a big banger on PC. Almost everything about this game screams this. These numbers will make Sony not very happy.

maybe sony should think about the market for these games rather than just porting all of them

May have something to do with needing either an SSD, or 32GB of RAM if installing into a hard drive, just so the game can load everything it needs to like on PS5.

As more PS5 only games the jump, expect to see that requirement a lot.

Long term releasing on PC will hurt Sony. As a life long Sony fanboy, I'm seriously considering not getting their next console and getting a stream deck 2, because why limit myself to Sony, when I can get all there games on PC.

You can't just release a relatively unknown game 1 year later on a different platform for full price with stutters on launch and expect to get a billion buys. PC users are the most savvy by far. I am sure that over the years with the help of discounts the sales will increase massively.

This does not hurt Sony at all. Thinking otherwise is ignorance.

This is a 2 year old port of a relatively niche game that is £50/$60. The sales numbers so far will have been in line with Sonys expectations.

Games on Steam will sell continuously over time, especially during sales, and will still be getting purchased in 10 years time with no need to remaster/port etc.

Itooks like it's sold about 50-76k in its first week. That might not sound like a lot but it's millions of dollars still, and for a game that likely had an initial budget of around $10-15m and the port would have been a fraction of that.

It will likely sell 1m+ lifetime.

... oh ... i hate this game with a passion. Moment to moment gameplay is pretty good but playing for hours, dying and resetting progress, over and over had me seething with rage after every "run". The relief I felt when I decided to uninstall it wasnt insubstantial. If you like this sorta thing youll probably love this .. if u aint keen on roguelikes/lites, this might well be the worst the genre has to offer.

some games are more popular than others i expect god of war sold more than returnal on PlayStation so its no surprise the same thing is happening on pc

@Avalanchee To be fair, I've never seen an internet post or spoke to a PC gamer IRL that ever wished Uncharted, God of War, or much less Sackboy or Returnal was on PC. It's third party exclusives, often paid timed exclusives like FFVIIR or FFXVI, that people wish were also on PC at the same time.

And honestly, it lines up with my preferences too. I've never cared about Sony's in-house stuff. What made them who they are is the variety of third party support. It was RE, FF, Tomb Raider, MGS and so on that everyone was talking about at school with the PS1, not Twisted Metal or Crash Bandicoot. I know it'll be different here, being a diehard PS site, but for example, I've never met anyone IRL that's played any Ratchet and Clank game. These games are nice to list in internet arguments of which console has the most exclusives, but they really aren't that appealing to the majority of gamers, whether it be hardcore or more casual. PS having stuff like Hogwarts Legacy (unlike Switch right now) is much more important.

Returnal is more of a slow burn than the instant gratification people seem to value nowadays. I personally picked it up as soon as I got a PS5 in summer 2021 and it’s consistently remained among my favourite games for the console. I’d say it’s a unique game in more than one way; it’s certainly niche, but also unique within its niche. The PC port seems to be a good job (according to Digital Foundry, at least). Here’s hoping more people will give it a shot ad it’s certainly worth it!

That's a shame, the game is amazing! However, it's on that list behind some serious big hitters/names. When looking at it in context it's really not too surprising!

People are too busy playing Hogwarts Legacy nowadays : )
There are quite a few good games that launched/are launching right now, Dead Space Remake, Hogwarts, Atomic Heart, Wo Long Fallen Dinasty, Resident Evil 4 Remake, TLoU etc... Many a gamer have to carefully plan their expenses if they intend to play them all.
And as good as it is, Returnal is a rather new IP, many have not even heard of it, unlike God Of War for example... And it appeals to a more niche audience compared to others, like Hogwarts for example, or Spider Man...
And it certainly doesn't help that Sony's ports don't have Denuvo...
TLoU may have an increased number of players however, given the success of the live action series... we'll see.

It has the same problem it has on PS5 - overpriced. When it hits the right price it'll sell.

PC gamers have no taste. Great game, one pf the best current gen games.

Death Stranding should also be on the list.

This is a great game, but not for everyone. It is difficult and because you can not save the progress anytime, only rogue like fans will really appreciate the experience. This is by far the most difficult game in PS5 in my opinion (and I love it). Thus, it is a niche game and a smaller number of players is expected.

@KaijuKaiser the fact it's been out for a while on PlayStation 5 & is on PS plus also doesn't help. I guess people who wanted to play it already have.

Don't know what people expected.

Returnal sold 550k copies on PS5 few months after release. It was not a huge seller...

I truly believe that the gloomy atmosphere and the choice of a zero charisma space Karen for the lead makes this look not fun at all. This style plus the bad marketing made a sure failure. It's a pity. I hope there's a sequel.

@Shepherd_Tallon @Matroska I also hear many arguments about how Sony are "hypocrites" when they lock their titles to their platforms, especially lately with the ABK/MS saga.

I think exclusives are essential to competition and to creativity. For example if Last of Us/GoW weren't tied to a specific system, I don't think they would've been such groundbreaking games.
Part of that is the ability for the developer to focus more on their vision and less on the different hardware specs.

Regarding 2nd/3rd party exclusives/timed-exclusives - I agree that more people complained about FFVIIR than God of War, but in that case you can bet Square Enix saw a benefit to do it that way, rather than Sony forcing their hands.

Btw I'm not tied to PS at all, I have a PC as well as PlayStation and Nintendo consoles. I much prefer to follow games rather than specific platforms they are on.

Real shame, especially since this is the best PS5 game by a country mile.

Maybe it's because the price, why buy returnal that only have about 6 levels at $60 full price when you can buy god of war, spider-man remaster, and horizon zd that have open world and hours of gameplay and story.

I played it on ps plus when i was subscribed. Returnal was a mixed bag for me. I was really enjoying it, until after the 3rd biome. Then I thought it was a huge let down after that point and I just wanted it to end.

Returnal was a game I was nervous to play, after reading about the difficulty , but I managed to finish it and it was absolutely brilliant and how all games should be, challenging, fair and innovative

I would say pc gamers have a PS5 also but with the steam hardware/software survey percentages, most people have the GTX line up like a 1080/1650 that could be cutdown mobile (laptop) SOCs, with the performance targets on those SKUs the fps is 20/40fps on medium & high at 1080p whilst barley reaching 60fps with a possible FSR implementation, If I was in that position with that hardware I would be buying it on PS5.

Returnal was a small project for PS and really felt like they learned the lesson of "right expectations" after the Days Gone fiasco so It doesn't surprise me the game it's not popular on another system.

Add the fact that you actually need a GOOD computer to play it (most people who play on pc and talk about the master race don't have one of those) and it will reduce even more the desire for the game.

But this is actually good news for ps owners because Sony now knows that it doesn't matter if it's a fantastic game like Returnal or one of their best franchises like Uncharted it won't sell on PC "just because" so they need to keep the focus on their player base and whatever the games make on pc it's a bonus.

It's just.... Not that good. At least in my eyes. I'm not sure why Sony bought the studio.

Pc gamers going to be upset if Sony stop sharing exclusives with them. They'll have no one to blame but themselves as a community.

@Beeeee-AHH-eer

The problem with lowering the difficulty and removing the Rogue elements is that it would destroy the game’s pacing and story. Its very story depends on the way the game is structured.

It’s an absolutely brilliant game. I’m not the biggest rogue like fan but I absolutely adored Returnal. It’s my favorite game on PS5 currently. It was fresh and inventive and perfectly paced. And the difficulty was extremely fair. It was hard. Very hard. But it was very fair about it. If you die in your run, it’s on the player not the game. You just learn from your mistake and don’t make it again. 99% of the time, you get the things you need to complete a run. It’s just a matter of adjusting your style to what you find and are given.

It was one of those few modern games not focused on busy body work, tells its story through its environment without long drug out cutscenes, and focuses on gameplay first and foremost.

It felt like a game from the 90s, but made with modern technology. Which is what is sorely needed these days.

@jrt87 what i find more funny is when someone starts the conversation w im playing video games since the ??? or ive been playing games for ?? years

Here's an idea. Don't release them 2 years after the console launch.

@Matroska absolute nonsense

according to Steamspy sales data:

FFVII Remake Intergrade - 425k (peak concurrent users = 13,803)
God of War(2018) - 4.13m

@Matroska

PlayStation studio Games that have sold 20m copies:

God of War
Horizon Zero Dawn
Marvel’s Spider-Man
The Last of Us
Uncharted 4(speculative, Last announced at 16m years ago)

FF, Resident Evil, Metal Gear and Tomb Raider games with 20m sales:

…
…
…
None

You need a wider friends group.

@Matroska

Dude I don’t know where you went to school, but where I’m from Ratchet and Clank blew the hell up back in 2002. As did Jak and Daxter.

Everyone with a PS2 had those games in their libraries.

@Falien

Exactly right.

Returnal requires an actual investment from the player to self improve. Like an old 16-bit arcade game.

That’s something not seen in many games these days. I loved it but both of my best friends hated it. And I understand why that is. They are very much about instant reward for very little effort in video games. Whereas I was an arcade nut case. So I enjoy the journey of getting progressively better at a game, so long as the difficulty is balanced and fair.

And that’s where Returnal shines. It’s a hard game. But it’s fair. You get back what you put into it. The opposite of most modern game design but very reminiscent of old arcade style games. Except that unlike those old arcade games it’s actually fair about it. The odds are surmountable for any level of player. Old arcade games put you in near unwinnable situations to put in another quarter. So they were beatable but it was based on how much money you had on you.

Returnal’s systems are all very fair and balanced. But they do require work from the player.

@arra1213 I wouldn't say they're the arrogant one. They aren't the one making blanket statements about PC gamers.

Never 'seemed' popular on PS5 as Official Sales seemed to indicate that only 560k were sold in the first 3 months. Whether that was the price point,, the style of game-play or combination of factors, but for an 'Award Winning' game, it never seemed 'popular' on PS5 and now a few years later, despite winning awards, it doesn't seem overly popular on PC.

Not saying its 'right/wrong', but in a Sales driven business model, it could be classified a 'Flop' as it didn't get the 'Sales' and therefore the revenue or player base to be 'successful' financially. Hi-Fi Rush for example could sell the same, but could have a massive player base and generate much more revenue from servers. Player Count could be a much more 'important' metric than Sales and could also make the difference between a Sequel (or other big budget projects) being green-lit.

For whatever reasons, I can see this being 'forgotten' when people talk about the Sony made games at the end of the generation, completely overshadowed and overlooked by their other Games....

Well it’s a bit niche! Probably my favourite Sony game on PS5 so far, though.

@arra1213

PC gamers play a huge variety of games.

Where did you get that info?

@xIFoxHound OK so first things first I don't give a damn where sony puts their games, what I care about is where they put their focus interms of information/marketing.

Why do I say this ? Because it feels like we've haven't had a showcase in 2 freaking years. Aside from spider-man 2 and Wolverine what do we know about the rest of this generations road map? I'm a ps consumer who invested in your $500 console the least they could do is showcase the future of the product. Instead of putting focus on a player base that barely cares about your games.

@Doublecell They’ll announce games when they are ready though, there’s no point in announcing games without a release date. Sony have been pretty good lately at showcasing a game and then releasing it within the year, like Nintendo. The teams porting these games to PC are small so there’s not a lot of marketing going into them. I’d say they’ll wait until they have released PSVR2 to shift focus on the upcoming projects this year, be patient. There’s no point in directing hate to the studios that are taking the time to bring amazing games to another audience.

@xIFoxHound When did I direct hate towards the studios porting the games ? All I said was that I want sony to cater their marketing/information towards their ps5 install base. I could careless if they port games to PC I just don't want that to be the only thing they constantly tell us about.

@KaijuKaiser I have 300 games on pc and hi fi rush is $30. Why should we buy this game asap?

@Gr8VngnzN4esAngr didn’t even sell a million on PS5 either and it’s one of like the 3 exclusives on the console worth playing that’s not cross gen.

@jrt87 consoles are completely worthless without exclusives in the year 2023 besides to the audience who plays madden all day. There’s a reason Xbox is in last place every npd.

@KaijuKaiser 'indie'. It's a game by a well staffed development team under Bethesda first, then Microsoft. At the least it's AA, but I doubt that distinction matters to you.

This is the problem with a TON of users on this site. If it ain't AAA, you call it indie then just write it off. Even though Hi-Fi Rush puts to shame any first party release from Playstation SINCE Returnal.

give it for max. £10 and I'm willing to think about buying it.

What is Sony doing wrong with their marketing? I kind of can't believe Sackboy could possibly do quite so dire on PC. I know PC isn't the home of platformers, but since the genre is so dire, and that game is great, I can't really believe it should naturally fail so hard. But Returnal is the kind of game that should be squarely centered on the PC market. I can't help but think the only way this came could fail so hard on PC if it's a catastrophic failure of marketing.

Pricing is also an issue. It's Steam. Nobody's going to pay $60 for a rogue-lite on Steam. Nobody's going to pay $40, either. Frankly nobody paid that on PS5 either.

@Matroska LOL if this thread were a console war thread you'd have been downvoted to oblivion by now You're 100% right though!

Although there's some irony with this game because it was a third party indie game when it launched, Sony hadn't bought Housemarque yet.

@KaijuKaiser HiFi Rush is Tango Gameworks (Evil Within, Ghostwire Tokyo), part of Bethesda, which is part of MS. The total opposite of "indie." Heck they're one of the only studios that's make a bonafide PS5 exclusive...

@KaijuKaiser the value for this game isn’t there. It was bad at $70, it’s still bad at $60. This game didn’t have anywhere near the budget as something like Horzion yet they expect people to pay for what exactly?

The fact that hi fi rush sold well proves people do want different games, but nobody wants to get ripped off buying them.

That is insane to me, this was a superb unique title, blows my mind the PC community have shown no interest..

@Worlock_ed hell yeah buddy

@jrt87 When Sony tells us “PlayStation is the best place to play”, and brags about their exclusives with their “only on PlayStation” marketing then completely reneges what do you expect?

I would have never bothered to buy this console had I known the list of actual exclusives would be paper thin and would all be ported to pc.

At least Microsoft was upfront, Sony is trying to pretend they are still doing the same thing they did from PS1-PS4 with real exclusives like scumbags to drive sales. They’ve been saying false truths this whole gen honestly

@Shad361 Hi-fi Rush peak concurrent user count on Steam(6,132) was even lower than returnal...

This game was absolutely not for me but I appreciate that it was something different to the norm.

@ChrisDeku the budget for Returnal was a lot lot more than that, nearly as much as some of Sony's other AAA games. Best part of 100M. David Jaffe spilled the beans

@Godot25 500K sales from a 10M user base is great numbers

Maybe they should keep their games on the Playstations.

@TrickyDicky99 Jaffe hasn't worked at SIE (SCEA) since 2007. He says a lot of things. Sometimes they're even true.

If Housemarque spent almost as much money to make their rogue-lite shooter as Guerilla spent making HFW, a sprawling WRPG which targeted 2 platforms to Returnal's 1, something is very amiss in the budgeting at Housemarque, which, honestly, I doubt.

@TrickyDicky99 No, he’s talking nonsense then. Suggesting Returnal cost $100m is beyond ludicrous.

Video games cost roughly $100k per person per year in full-time development, and that covers all salary,equipment, office space, licenses etc. Plus any exceptional costs(I.e. famous actors)

Returnal went into full development in only January 2020(this is when Sony signed on, and housemarque dropped their battle Royal game, stormdivers), and before that it had 3 years on pre-production. Pre-production is generally less than 5 people prototyping a game and coming up with ideas.Less than 18 months of full production with a core development team of around 80 people at the peak. 80 people = $8m a year. So around $12m but that calculation is not perfect so it’s probably a range of $8-16m at the most extremes.

@KaijuKaiser The sales don’t back up what you said. The last number given in sales was 560K and Sony has been silent ever since. 30 million PS5 owners now and doubt it even sold a million still. Most PS5 owners don’t even think it’s worth it, yet alone yet alone PC players with massive steam libraries and emulation.

@ChrisDeku Hi Fi Rush didn’t have Sony’s branding on it. This was toted as THE ps5 game for years and put on all the lists for “best exclusives”

@Blackmagehobbit On PS5 you can save progress at just about any point. You have to suspend the run via a menu option and close the game by returning to the Home Screen and closing the game from there. It is a very odd way to do things.

@NEStalgia It failed massively on PC cause PC gamers are too busy playing the same games that they've been playing for the last 10+ years. Also, in general modern PC gamers have a terrible taste in video games, and good luck trying to get them to play something other than LoL, DOTA, CSGO, FFXIV, Minecraft or anything else that falls in those categories.

The few PC gamers that do have a varied taste in games most likely also own something like a PS5, so they've already played this game when it originally came out or will likely prefer to play it on PS5 instead of PC.

These sales numbers are exactly what I expected. Games simply just don't do well on PC unless they are massive major releases... Like Hogwarts Legacy, GTV, Elden Ring.. etc

@Korgon This was definitely not the perfect fit for PC. As it neither an Online shooter, MOBA, MMO, something that can run on a potato, or F2P...

why isn't this the same price as the PlayStation version?

The main problem is the high end requirements to run the game that discourage potential buyers. I guess 32 gb recommended ram (they removed it after) scared many. How many PC with 32 GB Ram are out there?

@AverageGamer IDK, I've been out of the pc loop since the PS3, but I've never had the impression steam isn't extremely diverse in sales, maybe moreso overall than console. Sure you can generalize about the big online games which are most popular but the same kind of generalizations can be made about console with cod, Fortnite, sports games etc.

To me, a rogue shooter is ideal on pc even over console. But it's a $30 game with frequent $20 or less sales kind of thing. People on steam just don't pay 60 for anything let alone a rogue like. They laugh their heads off at console players paying 60 and 70 even for the big games.

Even on PS5 I think they massively overpriced this game for it's niche market. It's a cool game but it's not a 60 or 70 buck game at all.

@NEStalgia Sure you can make the same generalizations about consoles with cod, Fortnite, and sports games. But you can look at sales of games on consoles and see that gamers on those platform still buys others games. The same can not be said for PC.

The pricing of this game isn’t really the issue… cause if it was. There are plenty of places to get the game for cheaper than steam, and it probably would have sold just as bad at $30.

Shame. I was told online by PC nerds how this game was made for PC players. Game came out, seems to suffer similar fate as the PS5 despite the visual improvements. They say price was a big reason why but I don't buy that. I think the numbers would have been similar even at $30.

@ChrisDeku Jaffe knows exactly what it cost but he wouldn't give the exact amount, said it cost a lot more than Sony were happy with and cost a lot more than most AAA games

@Sakisa I agree hi-fi rush is great but I don't think it puts GOW ragnarok, ratchet and clank rift apart, and GT7 to shame just to name a few, thats a pretty hot take tbf.

Yikes. All these PC peasants defending this low sales is hilarious. Just a matter of time and more of these absolute flops that devours Sony money and Sony will stop porting their games. Just watch. First Uncharted, then Sackboy now even Returnal? That's abysmal. Sony has spent God knows how many millions of dollars to aquire Nexus and to mention the ongoing costs to maintain that studio. No way in hell this is anywhere near profitable. Let's see how The Last of Us Part 1 Remake and Factions 2 does on PC. If they flop too, they gotta come out and say something. Cause that's just embarrassing.

@AverageGamer can't argue since I'm just not in the pc community anymore and it's been a long while. Definitely not the impression I get online, but then, online I mostly hang out in places like this so it may not represent the masses. Always saw lots of stuff selling on steam when I do look though.

@Yozora146_ idk about rift apart. I adore r&c and I liked rift well enough but it seemed kinda dull compared to prior games. Not the worst entry but kinda paint by numbers. It's lengthier that hifi rush but I'm not sure I'd say better. Different year though so not a direct competitor.

@TrickyDicky99 If that were true I can't believe they A) continued funding it. B) bought the studio. That's a disaster of Halo infinite proportions if true. This is an indie scope game with a graphics budget pumped in from Sony. 100m should never have even been on the table.

1st party games don't need to make money, that's not their primary purpose, it's to get people into the ecosystem to buy 3rd party games and more importantly MTX's. Sony make more money from 3rd party MTX's than all 1st and 3rd party game sales combined.

Plus it sold around around 500K at launch, probably around a million by now, which is most of it's money back.

@Blackmagehobbit it's not as hard as people made it out to be I think I took just under 30 deaths to get the platinum which I was expecting a lot more I'm usually not keen on theses games either nor would I say I was amazing as im aware other gamers have half my deaths.

@TrickyDicky99 Sure, at least traditionally. And absolutely most of the money is from third party mtx. But Nintendo has made first party game sales their primary focus and Sony appears to be trying to emulate that recently. Blockbuster or nothing. No more loss leading exclusives for variety, just sure bet big earners. In that context they can't be pleased with this game.

@TrickyDicky99 If you think so...
That was not my point however. My point was if Spider-Man Miles Morales was a "system seller" on PlayStation and it only hit 13k concurrent players on Steam, I can't fathom Returnal, which was not a system seller being higher in charts.

Shame. Game is awes9me. I did hear that you need a pretty beefy PC to make it run anywhere close to it does on PS5.

Not really surprised honestly, the game has "acquired" taste for some people and it's difficult curve 😏

@fluggy my words exactly, this game is only for masochists lol

Returnal has been my favorite PS5 game yet. People are missing out.

@AverageGamer
Just because a platform has a genre that is popular on it doesn't mean that's all that people play on it. Playstation is by far the most popular place to play COD by a mile but it would be false to claim Playstation users only play shooters.

Heck PC is a big reason one of my favorite JRPG series, The Legend of Heroes, recently released a game in the series that originally never came out in the West to finally be officially localized. It probably would have never happened had the fine folks at Geofront not taken the time and translated it as their localization was the base used in the official release.

Plus Returnal technically can be an online coop shooter so my surprise at it not doing well still stands.

@ChrisDeku I've read from a few sources that Returnal cost circa $10million to make.

@VatoLoco47 Don't die, then you're all good.

@Korgon “Just because a platform has a genre that is popular on it doesn't mean that's all that people play on it. Playstation is by far the most popular place to play COD by a mile but it would be false to claim Playstation users only play shooters.”

I never took that stance for PlayStation. As I’ve mentioned in other comments that PlayStation and console gamers in general have a more varied taste in games, and games sales for that platform proves it.

The same can not simply be said for PC gamers, and it show generally by how well the games don’t sell on Platform.

@MonkeyDLuffy19 Playing through each biome is easy indeed; however, for me the design of the bosses is annoying and sometimes unfair. Bosses are not that difficult either, but the loosing the character progress if you die is rather frustating. That's why the game feels difficult for me, I have any problem with soulslike games for instance, because we do not loose the character, so, a few tries and you can beat the bosses (in fact the areas in souls games are much harder than those of returnal). The way I play returnal is passing the entire biome AND beat the boss without dying, saving the progress between biomes (but, it is possible to save one time in those machines that I can't recall the name). The game feels difficult for me because of loosing the progress and it is really annoying for some people (but It does not bother me that much). I do not know how many times I died, but I believe that it was much more than 30 times lol.

@solidox Thank you, I'll try this in my next time in the game. It is a weird choice indeed and I have no idea of this "exploit". For me, developers just have to include a "save" option, it is much more elegant.

@AverageGamer
Except it can be said for PC gamers enjoy a variety of games as well. Hogwarts Legacy, a game that is not any of those genres you mentioned was one of the most pre-ordered game on the platform leading up to launch.

Plus RPGs, indie games, and others do well on the platform as well. Capcom recently announced PC is going to be their lead development platform going forward. They make none of those genres you listed unless you count the upcoming ExoPrimal. I don't think they would do that if they didn't see their games selling at least pretty well on that platform.

@Korgon Games like Hogwarts legacy is an exception to the rule, and not the standard. It the reason why everyone was throwing around the pre order numbers for the games due to the fact games normally don't do well on PC, so the fact that Hogwart Legacy was so good to even peak PC gamers interest is a big deal. Hogwart Legacy will probably go down as WB Games best release on PC ever.

Capcom making the "PC lead development platform" going forward mean very little. It just easier to develop for tougher platform and scale down to lesser platforms. Instead of developing for PlayStation and having to scale up and add the bare minimum features that are still missing from plenty of PC ports. But Capcom said that almost 3 years ago, and the quality of games on the platform haven't improved.

@BAMozzy 560K from a 10M user base in 3 months is great numbers. What gave you the impression it sold poorly?

@TrickyDicky99 560k from 10m is not that great - that's just 5.6% of the potential market that purchased and Ratchet & Clank had sold double the amount in half the time - 1.1m in a month and a half. FH5 for example had over 1m pre-orders despite being on Game Pass day (although did release on more platforms), had 4.5m in the first week and has been played now by over 20m people - they achieved that within 7 months of release...

Compare that to the 560k players that played an Award Winning game. It doesn't exactly look good when R&C can sell 1.1m in a month and a half.

If any other Publisher had released Returnal and only got 560k sales from their 'Premium' Game, Chances are that would be considered a Flop. Do you think other Publishers would be OK if their game only sold that many? Devs happy they only reached that few people?

Sony may be OK with that because its another Award Winning game, can try and boost sales on PC and get people to Subscribe to PS+ higher tiers as part of a 'collection' of Award winning games on their Platform - but Sales seem rather 'disappointing' compared to their 'other' Exclusives...

Even on PC, it doesn't seem very popular at all - which this article is showing with these player numbers. It maybe just a 'niche' title - loved by a 'niche' group, but the majority (the other 94.4% of PS5 owners for example) didn't buy into what Returnal was offering...

@BAMozzy Xbox games don't sell anywhere near to 5% of the user base 🤷‍♂️

@TrickyDicky99 Probably not 'SELL' to 5% but still have MANY more players that Play their games as Purchasing is not the ONLY option to play.

Why would I buy FH5, H:I, Starfield, Redfall, Forza etc etc when I can play them for 'free' on a Sub Service. I don't know how many bought FH5 on Xbox specifically as it also released on PC too but still sold over 1m before the game had 'released' - early access for those that pre-ordered indicated that over 1m purchased before 'release'.

Any 'Xbox' game now isn't just playable on Xbox and only those that 'buy' can play - as is the case with Playstation Games. You can argue that 560k sales in 3months is 'good' if you want, but that's not a lot of people that played that game. Starfield may not sell as many as Horizon or God of War, but could be played by a LOT more people.

If you have spent all that time making a Game and hoping LOTS of people get to play and experience everything you have spent years on making, seeing it only reach a 'small' group of players can't be 'good'. I'm sure they'd rather have 20m+ play their game than 'just' a few hundred thousand....

Also, having 20m+ in your ecosystem/game will help when it comes to Game of the Year votes as people vote on things they played as well as having a massive user base to sell extra content to - such as DLC/MTX etc as well as ensure that 'online' games have a big user base - necessary for the 'best' experience - quicker Match Making, lower Ping etc

@BAMozzy I'm not sure how many players have booted up a game is a useful metric. 20M players booting up Forza doesn't make more money than 1M players booting up Forza

@TrickyDicky99 How would you know? 20m paying $10-15 a month (Game Pass or GP Ultimate) is bringing in over $200m a month. They have over 25m GP subscribers now, which brings in 3bn a year regardless of whether they 'play' Forza or open it up...

If you only rely on Sales, then that is the 'only' income that game brings in.

$3bn a year from Game Pass Subs alone is a LOT. H:ZD cost about $48m to make over 5yrs, average of '10m' a year so our many Studios could you 'fund' making games at say 15m a year with 3bn coming in from Game Pass alone.

Point is, by the time its 'released', its already been paid for by subscribers so every 'sale' or new Subscriber it brings in is 'profit' - not recuperating that initial cost so it could still be a LOT more profitable with 'fewer' sales...

As I said, that 1m that played 'before' release had to Purchase the game for Earlier Access so that's 1m Sales. the other '19m' are still paying MS $10 a month to 'keep' playing - even if they aren't playing FH5 anymore...

@BAMozzy 3BN is not a lot, PlayStation makes around 25BN a year.

Plus you're now talking about the amount of subs there are, not how many people boot up a game, which is not really a relevant metric as I said.

@TrickyDicky99 3bn is a LOT and it's pretty much guaranteed income. That's before you take into consideration all the 'other' income they generate through Sales of games, MTX, DLC, hardware, peripherals etc etc too. How much do MS make every year....

It doesn't matter how many 'boot up' a game - whether its only 1m of the 25m or all 25m, they are still getting 3bn a year whether they play for 1 minute, 1 hour or 100+ hours, they are still paying $10 a month every month.

However, you are talking about what many considered to be the 'Best' game of 2021 and I bet most of that 20m played more than just the opening introduction sequence. Sea of Thieves has over 25m players, Halo Infinite over 20m and more people played Hi-Fi rush in the First week than played Returnal over 3month and R&C over 1.5months combined.

Who's to say that those people that 'bought' Returnal played more than 1hr or even installed it? Its still no more relevant than unique players - except that these all had much bigger 'Launches' thanks to not having a 'huge' paywall to access. Both Forza and Returnal were critically well received except Forza has been 'played' by a LOT more people and had a much bigger launch...

@BAMozzy if people only played Returnal for 10 minutes Sony still got their money.

As I said, the number of players is irrelevant if a game is on a sub service, no more money is made if there are 20M players or 1M players.

@TrickyDicky99 and if only 1m of the 25m subs only play their game, they still get their money too - still got $250m that month regardless.

However, with a LOT of games these days, DLC and 'extras' are often sold too and if 20% buy DLC, having 20m players is much better than just 560k - how much 'money' would that DLC generate? Not only that, a LOT of games get rotated out of Game Pass - which would lead to a 'sale' to finish/keep playing that game.

Number of Players isn't 'irrelevant' as that can lead to more Purchases on that platform. If you are playing mostly on Xbox thanks to Game Pass, chances are you are more likely to buy 'multi-platform' games on that platform too - games not on Game Pass to play on the platform you spend most time on. Number of Players can make a difference between a game developer getting the chance to make a sequel or not, number of players helps with 'word of mouth' promotion of said game, more 'votes' for GotY etc etc

So yes it does make a 'difference'...

I doubt Sea of Thieves would still be going, still getting updated and expanded etc if they didn't have an 'active' and high number player count as it wouldn't make sense to keep spending time and money on continuing to make new content. That has over 25m players now, I doubt it would have sold more than a few million if that was the 'only' option...

@BAMozzy again you're mixing number of subs vs number of people who boot up a game.

The number of subs matter but the number of people who boot up a game is an irrelevant metric.

@ChrisDeku Most people who bought it bought it on Epic as it was a timed exclusive there, so those numbers are not reliable. In fact experiencing FF7R on PC is one of the reasons I bought a PS5.

Also, God of War was significantly cheaper on PC than FF7R which made a difference I'm sure and it was available on Steam on release day. I got FF7R in a sale when most of the performance bugs had been fixed and I didn't realise how good it was until I played it, it was sublime.

Sony's strategy of porting games to PC worked on me, particularly with PC prices going through the roof. Experiencing God of War, Spider-Man Miles Morales, Horizon Zero Dawn and FF7R on PC encouraged me to buy a PS5 with God of War Ragnarok included and a year's worth of PS Plus Premium and I would never normally look at a console.

Most of the games in that list have sold very well on PC so I don't see how people can say that Sony is making a mistake, particularly given Microsoft have Game Pass.

As for Returnal, I tried it briefly as I was curious and I don't like roguelikes so that will colour my judgement, but the graphics didn't look very impressive compared to many other PS5 games and the game had a weird laggy feeling which made the mechanics feel unsatisfying. Shallow I know, but those were my first impressions.

@dimi yes, most roguelikes on Steam have very basic graphics and low system requirements. They are also cheap. This is what Returnal is competing against.

@Shakybeeves we have lots of roguelikes on PC.