UK Sales Charts: PS5 Roguelike Returnal Off to Slower Start Than Other Sony Exclusives

They should really just get with the times and include digital sales in these. It’s not like the music charts only track how many CDs are bought.

If this game flops I don't want hear anyone bellyaching about Sony being risk averse.

I mean debuting at number 2 is still pretty good considering it's a new IP from a studio that hasn't made a game of this scale before and aren't as well known. I'm guessing it'll still do fine, with people learning there is more meat to it than initially assumed, the following weeks could have traction.

GTA V though. Seriously 😂

That was a lot of deflecting from a website that said Returnal was doomed for failure from the get go

I think if Returnal sell over a million in the first week or two that’s really good for the type of game this is and the fact this is ps5 only game.

Returnal 2 wouldn't even outsell a pokemon game, so we can't look into that too much. I'm personally hoping that resi villiage smashes the number1 spot, as that should send a clear enough message 🤞

@Loftimus if games costing 70$/£ that much of a problem for you stop gaming 70$/£ isn’t gonna anywhere. games are starting to cost more to make so the price increase was bound to happen.

I think it’s in large the price honestly. I think R&C is gonna be the last $70 game if that doesn’t get a price drop.
Once saves are implemented and I can this for $50, maybe $60 but I don’t know since it’s not launch, I’m definitely getting this.

@God_of_Nowt i'm still getting it.

@4kgk2 unlucky then as $90 games WILL be coming your way soon. I hope you can deal with it better than i have.

@4kgk2 That’s a really terrible attitude to have. Why should prices increase when the video game industry is making more money than it ever has?

@4kgk2 And they also make more mo day than before already. It doesn’t matter how games cost it the higher price causes a drop in revenue.
If 1.5 out of 7 people don’t get it at launch because of the price it’s already hurting profits.

I went to 5 stores on launch day and all were sold out so thats good but they mightve inly had 5 copys..

@Jaz007 so you telling me if a super next gen looking grand theft auto 6 is 70$ at launch you and all the people complaining about 70$ ain’t buying it day one.

I've heard some rumours that there are much lower print runs of physical games this gen. It seems that Sony aims to keep the prices high by not flooding the market with discs and controlling the digital market at the same time.

I've noticed that the Nioh collection has completely vanished from most stores outside of Amazon and eBay too. I think some physical copies of games might become hard to come by this gen.

@4kgk2 id be too busy playing Returnal to answer, if games cost $70 here. Our RRP is worth $97. This is a UK sales article. Best place for it, what?

A lot of people were put off by a) the genre, b) the price, c) the reports of crashes and d) the lack of any save function. If they address the latter two I'd be willing to buy it myself. Even at full price.

Word of mouth will help this game achieve the success it deserves.

@Enuo

This is the problem I have. Sony...and people like you...will believe that the game didn't do great because it's not from a well known franchise...but it's entirely possible that the price could be another huge deterrent for buying at launch. At least, that's the reason why I haven't bought the game. It's not because I don't like it or don't know it exists or don't want to support games like this, I just don't want to pay $10 more for no real reason.

@God_of_Nowt 'a game that's based on a formula and story that's been done to death' I mean tlou 2 is also in that category & it's just won a bunch of game of the year awards 😂

How many ps5's have been sold in the UK? for all we know there could be a whole bunch of people wanting to buy it but still cant buy the system to play it on.

@4kgk2 yeah just roll over and take it. I hate this mentality, the quitter mentality. Were you also telling people to just give up because Sony was going to shut down the PSN for PS3/Vita? Game companies listen if it they aren't making a profit. The power is entirely in consumer hands, we determine what a game is worth, not them.

@4kgk2 I don’t play GTA, so no. Really, I’d only get a game I’m gonna get a collector’s edition for at that price. I’ll admit if Persona 6 comes out, I’m grabbing that CE regardless of bad price. But 90% of games are a no go easily. It’s not worth it.

@God_of_Nowt They can want more profit all they want by raising prices. If we collectively don’t buy it enough they’ll see they’ve made less money and drop the price. So if we really think it’s the end of the world, they’ll backtrack. A good number of publisher aren’t doing it either. If it was that simple to do, more would be doing it already. Many don’t see it as worth it right now

@God_of_Nowt The moral is that corporations are bad. They will always look to make more money. It’s not as if any of that extra £10 is going to make it downstream to devs. Look at the millions and millions people like Bobby Kotick make. All that happens is the people at the top make even more money. There comes a point where you just have to refuse to line these idiots’ pockets anymore.

Its the price point for me. To high, unless I really want the game. I won't gamble at that price

@ATaco sure when a good game underperforms sales wise and the studio behind the good game that underperformed sales wise get shutdown, remember you guys being to cheap to buy the good game at full price are the reason why.

It's still nice to see Returnal debut at number 2.

@God_of_Nowt Depends. SW:BF2 and Shadow of War had MTs removed. Of course we’ve had unwanted elements, but we’ve also pushed back and had it work. And games like Returnal, they’re selling it to us more than the MT throw money away crowd. Could be wrong, but we’ll see.

@God_of_Nowt The purpose of a video game studio should be to create art. Not money. There are plenty of devs who really do care about making quality products but it doesn’t take a genius to see the direction that the industry has gone in the last decade. It’s only getting worse.

2nd place for physical only sales to me seems to be extremely good when:

1) This game is only on PS5 and the system has only been sold for about 4-5 months
2) It got beaten by a Pokemon game on a system with way higher install base than the PS5.
3) The % of digital copies would be higher than physical sales.
4) There are almost 8 million PS5 units sold WW, if this game does about 1-2 millions in the first month it would be HUGE for the type of game it is.

Hades came in at #7 at half the price and on a bigger instal base.

A super hard roguelike shooter with no save points that cost $70. I am amazed it is #2.

@God_of_Nowt Couldn't you argue that the reason no one bat an eye at the price increase of Netflix and Disney plus is cause both costed less than a cup of coffee at star bucks?

Disney plus only went up a $1 on the monthly plan and $10 on the annual plan.

People are upset cause we was already paying a high price for games especially if you live in places other than the US.

Now Sony decides to just go and bump up the price across all of their games. It doesn't if the game is good quality or not.

I have no issue with a price increase. But it have to make sense... Returnal and Godfall was not $70 games. A yearly games like MLB The Show isn't a $70 game. They was about to have us pay $70 for Destruction AllStars. Demon's Soul and Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart are $70 games. I have no issue paying $80-90 for a game if it make sense

@God_of_Nowt There’s a difference between covering operating fees and using video games as a means to create wealth. Micro transactions, live services and these price hikes are being used to line the pockets of the already rich. If Sony really want me to pay an extra £10 then they should release Jim Ryan and the rest of that lot’s wages and bonus packages to the public. Be transparent about where that money’s really going.

Well done Housemarque. This seems an excellent achievement, particularly in a week where a much demanded sequel to a 20 + year old game in one of the most popular franchises in the world has also released. I hope you have an opportunity to celebrate this success and you are happy with the numbers being posted.

Only 8 million people have a PS5.
I really, really love the game but it is niche beyond belief.
I would be hopeful if this game sold a million units.

"...Returnal Off to Slower Start Than Other Sony Exclusives"

What other new IP $70 PS5 exclusive games have had a better start? I can't even think of 1. The only game that even comes to mind is Soulsbourne (incorrect name but whatever) but that's a remaster with a built in fan base.

R&C should blow it out of the water but that's up to like game 10 and a feature film so far removed from new IP.

Whatever it sells it sells, will be considered a win when it hits PS+ in a couple of years. And digital in general since tracking of those seems a bit non-forthcoming.

The title is quite misleading.

A few weeks ago, we all expected this game to FLOP. I honestly didn't think it would make it to the top 20.

Then glowing previews came out, and then great reviews. It opened just behind Pokemon Snap (huge IP, huge install base, cheaper price, etc).

I think Sony and Housemarque will be pleased with the results.

I live in Japan and the game is also sold out.

Looks to be fairly promising sales for Returnal, actually. I’ll be curious to see the U.S. sales figures since the much maligned price point isn’t as hotly debated here.

Speaking of, I feel confused by the fact that Sony and Housemarque continue to get beat up about $70 when Nintendo games like Mario Kart 8 continue to sell for $50-60 after the game has been out for 4 years already! How can they still be charging that much for it? And isn’t it just a remake of a WiiU game? Sheesh, talk about fleecing the public. But no, let’s pick on the brand new technologically advanced 4K ray-traced 60 fps innovative IP built from the ground up, which will probably be down to $50 by Christmas. It’s a real double standard amongst fans.

Anyways, congrats to Housemarque. I suspect they will call being #2 a success, so long as they hold on in the top 10 for a few weeks.

I see a lot of "hey it made it #2! thats a good spot!"

There is nothing new to compete with other than Pokemon Snap! I would not be shocked if by next week this game falls off the charts entirely.

@God_of_Nowt Sure it my choice. But it also my choice to complain about it.

Also it may be super easy where you live to get games on pre-order discount. But most of the places where I live don't do that.

"But I also don't see how my next door neighbour buying the same game for more than I did as a bad thing."

It a bad thing cause it tells these companies that it ok to charge $70 cause Playstation, the darling of the gaming industry, can do it and gets away with it. Soon it will be every major publisher doing it once it time to fully dumped last gen.

This game is more for hardcore gamer so it's not gonna sell like god of war for example, but yeah $70 is a bit too much I think since the game isn't AAA but more like AA games. It's more like hellblade.

@wiiware Not sure if you’ve played the game yet, but it totally feels like a AAA. I think it’s without a doubt my favorite game this gen so far. Might not be saying much with how few games are out but it’s soooo good. Then again I like rogue likes (even though I suck at them).

@Th3solution I agree about Nintendo games. It’s why I never take a risk with Nintendo games or only buy them at launch. A game that is a year old isn’t worth $60 to me. I’d you ask me, it should be $15-20 by now.

@Th3solution this is a fantastic and very underrated point.

If it’s sold through it print run then met expectations and there shouldn’t be a problem.

Nintendo just had higher expectations. Reasonably so since the Pokémon snap had more hype before launch. Was in going to a far higher installed base. Was part of one of Nintendo‘s biggest franchises.

@Loftimus Games have not been €60 for ages but you pay a €30 for the full experience with a detour.

@wiiware Im sorry not triple A the polish gives a lot of triple A a run for their money. 🤪

This game will have some legs, once you try it...you’re hooked. I can see it spreading through the PS5 install base.

I'm kind of interested in the game and refuse to pay the $125AUD asking price for it.

@The_New_Butler Yeah, I don't get this article. 2nd place only to Pokemon Snap is really good.

@get2sammyb From what has been said by GamesIndustry.biz, the gap between #1 and #2 on this chart was "comfortable".

So take that for what you will.

Second place is an absolute feat. I bought it digitally yesterday as I ended up with some psn vouchers for my birthday but initially intended on physical. I know lots of people who got it digitally too. They definitely need to rethink including digital games in the figures for there to be any accuracy in these numbers.

@God_of_Nowt

This is in argument of comment #47, and in support of comment #44.

When companies like id started making Doom, they weren't concerned about profits, they were excited by an idea they had and wanted to see if they could pull it off. They couldn't wait to share what they'd made with the public.

It could be argued that every first person shooter since, made by huge corporations with an eye on profit, has been nothing more than a copy, with slight changes made.

When Bioware just started out (and back when they made good games), it was two Doctors deciding they wanted to try their hand at making games with involving stories.

Look at companies like Ubisoft or EA today, and what do you have? Large corporations following the examples set for them by small, creative, enthusiastic studios. And while they copy the spirit of some earlier games, they ruin them with monetary transactions and strategies designed to see how much money they can rake in over time.

Most creativity has died, and the larger the corporation, the more guilty of creative death they are.

Ubisoft doesn't approach a game with an attitude of being creative, rather it seems to be 'let's copy something safe, that we know works, and lets hold back some good stuff so we can charge more for it later."

A big corporate boardroom that is highly risk-adverse and thinking about their shareholders lacks the ability and spontaneity to ever make anything truly unique or genre-smashing. All I've seen big corporations do is systematically destroy smaller development houses that used to make great games.

You say you have to focus on profit. I say a few people with a great vision for a new game and the enthusiasm to make it real, and the caring to make sure they remove the bits of suck, even if not focused on profit, will nonetheless find it by the quality of the game they release.

Re pricing.

The unit cost of each game - the disc and box, or providing a digital download - is very small. So therefore the price of games are set only by what people will pay for them.

Companies want to make as much money as possible, but this can be achieved by increasing sales or increasing price. The optimum price is the highest one that doesn't reduce sales.

Selling 100 copies at £50 is better than selling 50 copies at £70.

I think Sony have made a mistake with the way they gone about this and ultimately will have to settle back to £50 for most games, as this is the sweet spot for the market.

They should have introduced the new price point with large, established IPs where people will be less likely to be deterred by the higher price. Eg. Zelda: Breath of the Wild is priced at £60 on the eshop, whereas other Switch games are cheaper.

I've been vocal about sony raising the price of new release in the UK raising by £20 but there are other factors here. I suspect this will have done much better digitally. I think the game looks great but rock hard rogue-like new ip is never going to sell that well. Hope they can circumvent the issues down the line with ps5 system causing crashes, patch some of the fps dips and add a mid-run save (so many reports of ps5 rest mode issues I can't believe that was there solution to this)!

Never played a rogue like or heard of housemarque before. But the trailers sold me on the game and I pre ordered a physical copy for £65. I have to say I’m really really enjoying the game and the combat. The world and the story are really intriguing too. However I do wish there was a save button. Nothing worse than having to quit a long run just because you have work in the morning.

If a sales chart doesn’t track digital sales which are now 70 to 80 percent of the market it’s nothing more than vgchartz

Its a brand new IP against Pokemon for goodness sake! Of course it came second. But thats still amazing considering how much PS5 have sold. I can see it like Miles Morales andreemerging in the top 10 while console stock appears

A better metric would be what percentage of PS5 owners bought it?

High price and harsh difficulty makes this a no go for me at the moment, unfortunately. When it’s cheaper and they’ve added the new save (and maybe difficulty, maybe?) options I’ll take another look.

@awp69 Just bought the game 2 days ago, last night after patching it I played the game for 5 hours straight. I think the gameplay is really great, the graphics is good, the sound design is amazing, with only using my speaker I can tell where the enemy is without headphone, but I still think this game should be priced $60. Of course I don't have problem with paying $10 more because I want to support housemarque, but compared to, say, ratchet and clank rift apart, it's clearly not as "expensive" as ratchet ps5.

@Flaming_Kaiser Compared to ubisoft or ea games returnal is really polished lol. I experience crash once though when using teleporter, the run is good but not great so I don't mind it. I hope the game won't crashed on me again though. The gameplay is really good, I can't stop thinking about the game 😃

The game out just on Friday. And in Germany, nothing was open on Saturday. At this point, a sales rating is not fair.
But I'm more surprised, that Pokemon Snap is on place 1.

If they include digital sales things may not change as they’d have to include other consoles digital sales who also sell many games digitally.

@4kgk2 That's not usually the case. What we'd consider as underperforming would be to not make a profit, or to not sell millions of copies. What a publisher considers underperforming would be an arbitrary return on investment figure.

That's why you get stories of games selling 4 million copies, but somehow that's not good enough for continued productions of that IP.

@God_of_Nowt I think conflating "artists need to eat" and "video game industry needs to make bank" is a bad way to approach this argument.

The video game industry is bigger than the film and music industries combined. It is a massive industry. It is not in danger of being short on cash. Yet the lower end workers get overworked, underpaid, tossed out at first chance, pushed out of bonuses, abused.

The video game industry can most certainly afford to do better for its employees and customers.

Well it’s number 2, a new IP and dare I say it a slightly niche game, compared to uncharted or god of war. Those games are well established.
Also there are only 7.8 million PS5 about world wide.
Also did the £70 cost have an impact, you have ratchet and clank in June and if I had to choose one I would go ratchet and clank.

People still arguing about $70 games? Really is starting to get annoying, if the game was $60 people would still find a way to complain about the pricing, and when games are priced 'accordingly' people STILL refuse to buy the game.
Another case of damned if you do, damned if you don't, people always find a way to make a mountain out of anthill.

Yeah, these sales numbers, especially with the pandemic, are probably WAY off from how well the game actually sold. I think, however, that Returnal sold less than Pokémon Snap... are we surprised? Returnal was a huge risk for Sony and Pokémon Snap was just about the safest game release Nintendo has made in recent years. Haha! Also, I am blown away that Returnal has sold as many copies as it has even with it being a PS5 exclusive and with how limited PS5 stock is. That's remarkable in and of itself.

The amount I’d pay for a launch game depends on the game. If it’s a sequel to an established IP that I love... maybe. If it’s a brand new IP and I’m not sure if I’ll like it, definitely not. But games are always more expensive this early into a new console gen. I fell for it when the PS4 was released but I won’t fall for it again.

By the time I get a PS5, I’ll be able to pick all of these games up in a sale for £10-15 (fully patched and everything). Happy days.

£70 £70 £70 £70 £70 £70!!! For the Americans out there that is $97!!!

@Enuo I bought it on launch day and I’m loving the game! The game gives you shortcuts and quickly powers up your proficiency for the biome you’re in so it isn’t a huge loss if you die, especially after beating a boss!

Soooo, another quiet day at PushSquare then

😝

Well done on getting to No.2, this game will sell in good numbers throughout the rest of the year. Word of mouth will help and so of course will more PS5s available for sale.

Oh and Resi Evil is a great series and Village looks like a brilliant game. People like what they like and others should stop acting like such snobs.

Great game, downloading a patch for it now so that might fix some issues I've been hearing about buy not experienced.

Still moaning about an extra tenner, honestly shop around and you'll find it cheaper.

@MightyDemon82

If you were buying PS4 games at £60 then perhaps you should have been shopping around.

@God_of_Nowt "They don't have to pay it, they can wait to pay the price they deem fair."

But then we get told that we are cheap and entitled and that we are killing off new IPs and that the publishers need us to pay $70 to keep the lights on.

You talk about artists creating wealth. Is this wealth for yourselves, for your CEOs, or for the country as a whole?

It’s only on PS5. It’s player base is minuscule compared to all other platforms. Even Xbox series X would have the advantage of also releasing on pc. Coming in 2nd is quite good, considering.

I got this on disc and have already sold it. I don't have the time with work to dedicate 3-4 hour sessions to a run. Its also frustratingly hard. 60% of the players haven't beat the first boss after the first weekend. I'd say this needs a difficulty tweak before all the casuals join me and decide "i'm never going to complete this so why try?" Whats the point of spending millions developing a game where 90% of players won't see the end.

Only Pokemon outsold it, and it's been hard to find physical copies. Plus it's a new IP, and a more niche game. Second place seems good for it.

The negativity of the headline seems very clickbaity. Judging by the number of comments, it's clearly worked.

@Smash41 that means, I'm a gaming adept. I bet the 2nd Boss yesterday. Got the grappling hook and visited the 3rd world already.

But I also think, it's hard as hell. I wasted a couple of hours to get to the 2nd boss. Can be really frustrating. But I also feel, the more I play this game, the better gets my play style

@dav2612 I usually got for £50 or on sale I have a decent amount of disposable income as I don't have kids, smoke or drink and with the pandemic I haven't been able to go out for meals, cinema or even a haircut so saving plenty cash which I can put aside and pump into my various hobbies!

I did expect New Pokemon Snap to be 1st as it's Pokemon and it's cheaper than Returnal (£50 vs. £70). Future weeks will be interesting to see for both titles as we start to see more big releases like Mass Effect Legendary Edition, Resident Evil Village, Ratchet & Clank Rift Apart, Mario Golf Super Rush, Skyward Sword HD, etc.

This game only reached number 2 is because of the lack of big games on PS5 at the minute. If this was released during a busy release schedule it wouldn't make the top 10. Especially at £70.

There were a million headlines u could choose.
And u chose to go with the negative.
Typical.

@God_of_Nowt "let's carry on focusing on how a few industry workers have it a little rough sometimes"

I didn't.

Amazon, and Google, and MS and everyone else, should most definitely pay their fair share of taxes.

And that goes for lawyer, accountants, bankers and so on. Which is a whole political issue right now, seeing what the EU is doing, what the UK is doing, and how their relationship has changed, seemingly not entirely disconnected from these reasons.

And it goes for video game companies too, who also have a history of not paying their fair share of tax, in the UK. One of which, was Sony.

Wealth generation is less a defense when that wealth is disproportionately heading in one direction.

And it's nice that you don't believe that people are idiots or need to pay $70 for a game, but for me, that still just falls in line with the industry not needing to.

Edit: Jim Sterling going a head and providing a video digging a little deeper as if he heard us arguing.

https://youtu.be/0qc57jIFqU0

Launching at number 2 isn't good anymore considering it is being sold out physically?!
Nonetheless, I constantly get the Notifications when my friends, on PSN, die in Returnal.
That pain, I feel it.

A number 2 position is fantastic for this type of game ,im glad its doing well ,think they've missed a trick though not including any sort of multiplayer, im sure the community would lap up a versus mode ,selene copies flying about one of those challenge rooms or give a couple of players control over monsters and they can spawn the little ones and take control over the larger creatures ,would be cool.

Wow, as much as I tried I couldn’t get through all those comments! It seems there is no article that this price argument cannot be had.

Keeping on topic, I think that second place is great and a success. I purchased digitally and am having a great time, and probably will continue to do so until Ratchet and Clank releases.

Off topic, I’d probably have to lean with @god_of_nowt on this one. To push the analogy further, the price of milk in the uk has doubled since 1990 if we’re looking at percentage increases. We all know the farmers aren’t seeing the majority of the gains there yet you as consumers still shop at the supermarkets I imagine?

I agree that it’s down to us as consumers to determine the price elasticity of demand, but in a luxury market there is far more freedom to influence that, which is in my opinion far less sinister than those operating the same practices with even greater price hikes albeit incrementally in an essential market where the consumer has little choice but to accept it.

@hi_drnick @Jaz007 @The_New_Butler Yeah, for illustrative purposes here’s some comparison for some of the top 2017 releases — Nintendo: Zelda BotW, Super Mario Odyssey, Mario Kart 8. All still selling at retail for $40-60. Cheapest I could find in a quick google was Mario can be had for $40 on sale.
2017 Sony (here’s just a few of the first and second party content): HZD, Uncharted LL, Nioh, Gravity Rush 2, Persona 5, Yakuza 0. You’ll notice that the absolute most you’ll pay for any of these is $20, but some have been offered for no additional cost on PS Plus and in the case of HZD, literally given out for free to everyone who has a PSN account.

It’s a stark contrast. I’m not saying Sony are altruistic angels necessarily, but the vilification of Sony’s corporate greed is overstated when you compare to Nintendo’s pricing strategy.

And to be clear, I’m not judging. I support free market economics in general. But I just found it a bit hypocritical is all. I’m with everyone else who wants to pay the least amount as possible for my games. However I did buy Returnal and Ghost of Tsushima at full price. But I can’t stomach buying a Switch, partially due to the game prices. I can only indulge in one ecosystem. Not to mention I haven’t the time for both right now. That may change in the future.

@God_of_Nowt well resi 8 is only 45 on ps5 so there is that.

Genre and price are the issues for me. I've enjoyed very few roguelikes/lites so the idea of paying £70 for one isn't appealing. Especially when a game I'm really anticipating like Resi Village is £55. Don't think I'd pay over £20 for Returnal.

Physical copies have always been cheaper than the ps store ,so why in this generation are they not ,returnal is the same price in store as it is on psn,whats going on there then,there usually 10 quid cheaper ,which I think 59.99 is a fairer price.

I bought it, it’s not worth 70.

Love this game but its to hard for me, if it wasn't a Rogue shooter it would be even better. More Metroid with save stations would be perfect.

If you own a ps5 you should think about picking it up. It’s really great and I hate rougelikes.

@OmegaStriver impressive honesty and I’m sure early adopters will be rewarded 👍🏻

@Darten

The price increase has nothing to do with inflation. I think you will find no link between inflation and console generations.

@Darten nearly as insane as you apparently not understanding economies of scale or logistics.

I wish Returnal well. But at £70 with no save points I think I’ll pass for now.

@God_of_Nowt Thank you for making reasonable, sound arguments. It’s not something seem often online!

2nd place to New Pokemon Snap is not bad or surprising when you consider that this game is PS5 only and we only have a fraction of the install base the Switch has...

While the games looks great and the gun play seems week done, I am not keen on investing full price on a game so frustrating that I will probably drop in a few days. Unfortunately these are not my cup of tea, not really into the rogue like concept.

@God_of_Nowt It's incredibly bad form for an employee of the company in question who stands to benefit directly from the practice in question to be defending said practice in a place like this. I know you mean well, but that's like having CDPR staffers come here and explain to us over and over why the state of CP277 on PS4 is really ok after all. It's just not an appropriate stance in that position, whether the arguments are sensible or not.

You make some good points, and some that are off base, but that's kind of neither here nor there. At the end of the day, well meaning or not, you're still the company man towing the company line in a debate among consumers about the price and value of something. It's just not a good look.

I would have totally bought Returnal until I found out that it has no mid-run save feature. It would be impossible for me to get through the game with the way my PS5 game schedule works (which is non-consistent and sometimes needs to be taken in smaller chunks)

Then, it came out that the game could potentially crash. Not great optics at the moment.

It's a game I want to experience, but sadly, can't. Hopefully the two main issues are fixed by the time I finish Resident Evil Village and I can confidently buy the game and enjoy it.

I think that this is a very good start for a game, which is exclusive to a platform with currently very low install base.
It's a shame I have some financial issues right now and can't afford myself to jump in from the start.
But I definitely will be catching up soon and support this game with my wallet.

Wow. I still find it astonishing how so many people can get so worked up over paying for a luxury item that they don't really need at a price they don't have to pay. I take it none of the people complaining so bitterly own an Apple product!

On topic, well done Housemarque for all of the reasons others have said. I hope this success translates to good profits, a bonus for all involved in its creation and investment for the future.

Did people actually think it was going to beat out a Pokemon game? It's doing fine.

@R1spam Nail on the head, I am very interested in this game even though it's not my usual type. I waited on reviews, the price makes me think twice. Crashing and losing progress will be getting worked on as we speak, no doubt performance too. A mid run exit and continue would allow for crash issues to be less of a problem. I want to start a run, drop out go play something else then come back later and carry on.

As for difficulty I heard HADES has an option called God mode, you take 20% less damage, each time you die a further 2% up to a maximum of 80%. You love the challenge don't use it, it's nice having options.

My mate loved the graphics and atmosphere but the Rogue Like killed the sale from him.

@NEStalgia I think he makes some refreshing points in a climate where the average argument against ‘the big bad corporate boogeyman’ seems to boil down to “Capitalism is bad.” The reality is just so much more nuanced than that and I empathize with his frustration.

The twitterverse consistently seems to have a misguided idea of how business actually operates, with the bias that building wealth is inherently evil. Like every “successful” company or person within the company want nothing but to take as much money as they can by any means and bury it in a hole in their backyard, never injecting anything back into the economy and only withdrawing from it for wild weekends full of hookers and blow.

Your position here is somewhat infuriating to me because you’re also 100% correct. With that said, what other position is he supposed to come from? I’m a bit torn because I really do appreciate some refreshing level headedness in the discussion but I also completely see where you’re coming from here.

I’ve had a ps5 from day one. I still haven’t bought a single game on it. Resi village will be my first but most games I’ll wait 12 months for heavy discounts.

@Luigia I recently figured out the proper way to do a run that works for me and after that I easily beat biome 3 and then 4. I quit after that with a fantastic setup.......... because you can’t freaking save. It’s annoying but you can set yourself up pretty well in biome 3 as you should biome 1.

It’s fun, but the procedural generation is shockingly repetitive for what has been pushed as a AAA quality 70 dollar game. I could list a ton of annoyances I have. The annoyances stand out more than the fun. It’s a 7/10 for me, possibly a 6. FYI, I’ve beaten multiple Souls games, the most popular rogue likes, super meat boy, Hollow Knight and many other difficult games. So, Returnals difficulty is not the biggest problem, it’s all of the annoyances.

@God_of_Nowt Well I have to be good at numbers b/c it's a day later and I still had to look up what game I meant by Soulsbourne. (The Demon Souls remaster fwiw)

My brain doesn't do "nouns". 🤷

@Enuo

Exactly! It's more on Housemarque not learning it's lesson of making great, but niche games that didn't sell well. Which nearly led to them closing down. Why they tried to make an even more expensive and equally niche game is a bit baffling to me.

I love their older games, but I have zero interest in roguelikes, and a AAA roguelike makes no difference. It certainly doesn't help that even roguelike fans are on the fence due to a lack of any save feature, even a temporary one, when runs can take 2-3 hours.

I wish the developers all the best, but if this fails, its on them, not Sony. They have my respect for trying to be different though.

People complaining about the cost should definitely look up the price of new software for a newly released system after adding in the inflation. Even at 70, after factoring in inflation, this is one of the cheapest generations in gaming history.

Seriously, that inflation is killer. Go look up Atari VCS games from the 70s and prepare to have your mind blown. A $40 game in 1977 is the equivalent of $131 today.

@4kgk2

That's no reason to stop gaming. Some people like to be smart with their money. History has shown that game prices drop fairly quick, unless it's a Nintendo game.

That's like telling someone to not buy a TV on sale because they can't pay top price for it at release. I certainly don't expect to pay top price for a car or house either. I sure as hell didn't.

It's a hobby, as people age more important things arise like family expenses, homes, healthcare, etc. That doesn’t mean people should just give up something they enjoy because they can't afford every game they want when it comes out.

@God_of_Nowt I appreciate your voice here and if you do go, it will be sorely missed. I enjoy your and other developers hard work. Know that it doesn’t go unappreciated! Cheers!

I can't wait to listen to nonstop complaints about pricing throughout this generation, reading about on every post never gets old.

For those in the UK, learn to shop around if you don't wanna pay the new price point going forward, or just wait, both are better than moaning. This game could of been picked up for £58 on ebay a week before release, and can still be bought for £61 and some change digitally with Shopto top ups. No doubt £60 will garner complaints as well though. 60 for a roguelite, unacceptable, 60 for a game with no saves, disgusting, 60 for the first triple A from a relatively small studio whose game has received overwhelmingly positive feedback, not on my f***ing watch!

The hell happened here?

@Intr1n5ic Maybe it's because this site is my main PlayStation place and it's British but I really don't see this discussion being as heated anywhere outside of the UK.
I'm in Poland, where the average salary is half of what it is in the UK and people love to complain about everything - and sure, people weren't too happy about it last year but they're pretty much over it now. If they don't want to pay full price, they get games later or second hand, split the cost by game sharing in case of digital, etc.
Returnal is awesome btw, I'm enjoying it as much as any "big" Sony game.

@Voltan the games amazing, im loving it. I just discovered a great life leech setup that I'm having a lot of fun with.

@God_of_Nowt Just to be clear, nothing against you or your take personally, at all, and if your were "just a random guy" I'd challenge a few of the points you brought up in the interest of debate. But in this instance, Sony probably has the right of it, even though you're supporting their point of view publicly, it's just a clear conflict of interest to have company operatives promoting company business arguments outside the PR channels, within public consumer discussion of those policies. Product discussion or...."clues" is one thing, but business policy....that's probably a bed of egg shells best not touched for the good of discussion here, for the liability of the company there, and for the sanity and liability of your own!

Edit: I just saw your direct reply to me, the notification missed my inbox, and just wanted to add that I certainly have no argument against you, I value your posts and the several conversations we've had overall, and certainly didn't intend to convince you to leave or feel unwelcome. If it appeared that way, I do apologize. My paragraph above clearly states my intended meaning. And I wasn't referring to your pointing people toward discount retailers, it was entirely regarding getting into the mousetrap of debating the price points and comparisons to other products and services that could easily go too deep, in problematic ways, if engaging that debate further to any depth.

@OmegaStriver brilliant feedback and your honest comments make me feel the game doesn’t warrant a £70 price tag.

Using no digital sales as an excuse is kinda pointless imo, so Pokemon Snap didn't also get digital sales? 😂
2nd is an amazing debut despite the doom and gloom here, remember it's a new IP and a niche genre.
Plus like 20 people could find a PS5 atm compared to the Switch install base.

@Intr1n5ic Or you know they could make the price actually match the US price rather than being essentially $30 more than there.
Blindly accepting this isn't a good thing.
I'd happily pay $70 but Sony can forget me ever paying £70.

this one will drop in price very quickly. i don't think they will sell more than two million copies which may or may not be seen as a failure by sony?

@Enuo
Yup. And we can all the qualifiers in that we want to try and explain the lower sales, to me this is still a concerning start. Hopefully the North American market makes up for it.

@Luigia I actually split it with my buddy. He told me he doesn’t care to wait and that I could play it first. I just spent two hours that included leveling myself up in world 4 to take on 5. I ended up with a great carbine that was only 4 points from max damage and the enemies were still heavy bullet sponges. The heavy sponge to me, has only occurred in world 5, not including bosses. I’ve died and have nothing to show for it except maybe around ten ether currency points. You can’t invest, in health, defense, attack or weapons like you can in other games. You have to spend around 45 minutes powering yourself up to make a decent run, or, I do.

Spending two hours with nothing to show for it that will make the next run slightly easier is not a fun time for me. I received a data cube that gave me an ok item.

Up to world 5 was an ok time but I’m done. I’ve deleted it and am going to tell my buddy it’s his.

I’m glad I only have half in it.

@Jimmer-jammer People think that way about businesses too much for real. They also ignore the fact that a lot of the time, they would do the same thing. Even if it's corruption as they claim, they aren't mad at the theoretical corruption (I'm not saying businesses are just corrupt at all), they're mad at their lack of opportunity to take part in the theoretical corruption themselves.

@Jaz007 you make an excellent point in that a lot of this criticism comes from a disingenuous place, where folks really just want a piece of the pie without assuming any of the risk, sacrifice or hard work it takes to get there. It’s a victim mentality rooted in jealousy that can unfortunately be quite prevalent in these matters.

As a consumer, I've said it elsewhere, I can't afford £70 for a game that isn't necessarily in my wheel house. I refer again that Ghost of Tsushima as £20 less at launch 9 months ago.

It's on a machine thats only sold around 8 million? And its gameplay won't cater to the masses so I'd say 2nd is very very good

@Scratchy_Seal "To push the analogy further, the price of milk in the uk has doubled since 1990 if we’re looking at percentage increases."

What has been the percentage increase for wages during that same period?

@Richnj I don’t mean this in a rude way at all but what is your point exactly?

I’m pretty chill re this whole debate and am not particularly invested in it to be honest. I’m one of the guys that will pay the £70 if I want the game and afford it but if won’t if I don’t see the value.

Ultimately I guess cost of living has risen with wages not rising in-line with cost of goods and services right, so to my ignorant/naive brain I just assume that further emphasises my point that this is inescapable? I appreciate that I may sound stupid here but I’m probably too laid back and just expect some increases. My two main interests over the last twenty years have been sneakers and gaming. The boom in the sneaker culture surrounding limited Nike SB back in the mid 2000s to the Jordan hype and Yeezy launches later meant huge success for Nike and Adidas but the price of their products have risen.

I don’t even know what I’m saying anymore but I’m genuinely interested in your explanation. Please do share, and as I said, no sarcasm being thrown your way.

@Scratchy_Seal I don't take any of this personally, so don't worry about that. Nor am I trying to upset anyone.

I think if I had an ultimate point, it would be, I prefer to judge increases against wages and spending power. Not against other increases.

A little research on Google and it seems like UK wages have increased just 7% since 1990, which is something silly like an extra £4.20 for every £60. Which means an extra £10 is more than double the wage increase in a straight percentage increase.

And a doubling of the cost of milk is just disgusting.

Things actually get even worse if you look at real wages.

I'm fine with increases. The issue is how these increases compare to wage growth.

Well it's not like N2 is ***** or something, is it?
Not worth the drama for nothing in the comments anyway.
🙆‍♂️
Or is it going to trigger and poison the comments with a price debate every time now?

Its pretty sad when your game is between two nintendo games...

@Richnj Are those real numbers? If so it's kind of mind blowing for me.
In comparison, here in Poland wages grew 50-fold since 1990. Of course it's not really comparable given Poland's history up to that time but then again they're still half of what UK wages are today. Wow.

@Voltan It's the best numbers I can find for the 1990 til today period, and seemed low to me, but until I see otherwise, it's the best I can go on.

But it is true that wage increases have been lagging behind for a very long time here.

@4kgk2 I mean, they don't have to stop gaming. All they need to do is wait a few weeks or months to play the games they want to? Seems a much better option than giving up on gaming altogether.

@BansheeNorn First party games sell well no matter what. People who buy Nintendo hardware inevitably buy the major first party games. Xb/ps gamers don't seem to feel compelled to do so.

@Jimmer-jammer very well said!

That top 10 is a catastrophe.

@Jimmer-jammer wealth isn't evil per say. But when Tramps line the streets and kids go hungry then capitalism doesn't work for everyone. I work in marketing and can and do spin stuff to make money. £70 is too much. Especially during a pandemic and gaming is a big part of all our culture's. (Although you can find the games cheaper generally)

Why are people up in here saying price increased are okay? Surely that's self defeating unless you work for the company hiking prices. That's my take anyway. When my local pub increase prices I don't cheer the landlord I ask why.

@wiiware Great to hear you like it. 😁

@themcnoisy I agree with everything you’ve said here and don’t think my prior posts are in opposition to your viewpoint. I was appreciating the discussion having valid points on both sides in an online climate that tends to trend towards socialist and communist ideals that I have personally witnessed destroy far more than it protects.

My personal political and moral ideologies are far too fluid and layered for online comments sections or forums (as most likely are), but it’s nice to see valid arguments presented from all sides. It’s what universities are worryingly losing.

Losing against Pokemon isnt really a bad start is it?

without digital sales these really are becoming pointless now

I want Returnal but given that I’m not generally a fan of the rouge like structure, I can’t bring myself to put nearly £70 on it, at £40 I would take the plunge. I will wait for it to drop as I have to try it out but I know one of my worst things in games (other than genuine arcade games like shmups and beatem ups and fighting games), is the feeling that I have to do the same levels over and over again for hours to make progress.

Oh its a roguelike? Darn didn’t know that. Nevermind then.

@4kgk2

So how is the glitchy game treatin ya, my dude?

@get2sammyb Digital sales have been looked at, even with the fact Pokemon Snap doesnt include digital sales, Returnal was still #2 for the week with digital included.

https://twitter.com/Chris_Dring/status/1390727442210381824?s=20