“Putting [games] into a subscription model on day one, for us, just doesn't make any sense,” Sony bigwig Jim Ryan told GamesIndustry.biz prior to the launch of the PlayStation 5, when asked about Xbox Game Pass. “For others in a different situation, it might well make sense, but for us it doesn't. We want to expand and grow our existing ecosystem, and putting new games into a subscription model just doesn't sit with that.”
The executive added: “We have had this conversation before – we are not going to go down the road of putting new titles into a subscription model. These games cost many millions of dollars, well over $100 million, to develop. We just don't see that as sustainable.” Little over six months later, MLB The Show 21 – a first-party game developed by Sony’s own San Diego studio – will be available day one for members of Microsoft’s subscription. PlayStation fans will have to pay up to $69.99 to play.
There are mitigating factors, of course, but very few with a sane mind could argue against the outrageously bad optics on display here. MLB The Show, a franchise historically released exclusively on PlayStation platforms, is making its debut on Xbox systems this year. Clearly the league played a large part in the multiformat release; MLB wants the game to be enjoyed by as many people as possible, and the brand is worthless without the official license.
It’s fair to say most fans had comfortably wrapped their head around that; the series has always been a big seller for Sony, but it’s not a globally defining franchise like God of War or Horizon Zero Dawn – given the unprecedented circumstances, the move to multiple platforms made sense. What doesn’t make sense, however, is the Japanese giant allowing it to be handed out to Xbox Game Pass subscribers at no extra cost on day one, while long-standing PlayStation fans are forced to pay full-price.
Some have tried to argue on social media today that the Japanese giant simply had no say in this matter: the title is published by MLB on Xbox platforms. But it seems unfathomable to us that Sony negotiated such a bad deal with the league that it couldn’t even veto an Xbox Game Pass version of a product it created on launch day. Surely someone at PlayStation had the foresight to say: “Please don’t make us look bad by giving away our game on a competitor’s service at launch.”
And yet, that’s what’s happened anyway! If the manufacturer really has that little leverage over a brand that it’s nurtured, funded, and overseen for decades, then we’re not sure who’s doing business at PlayStation anymore; we’re bumbling communicators at the best of times, but we’re pretty sure even we could have stepped out of that particular boardroom ensuring that MLB The Show 21 doesn’t get put on Xbox Game Pass until at least three months after launch.
Others have suggested that Sony will have cashed a humongous cheque, straight out of Microsoft’s fabled war chest, due to this deal. And it’s true – there’s no doubt Xbox will have handed over a huge hunk of change for this title. But exactly who’s that meant to please? The accountants at PlayStation? Meanwhile, long-time fans of the brand are being asked to shell out $59.99 for a PS4 copy, $69.99 for a PS5 copy, or $84.99 for both. (You get both versions with Xbox Game Pass, by the way).
We understand all of the caveats: Xbox Game Pass is not free, you still have to pay $14.99 a month to subscribe. And yes, third-party titles are rotated in and out, so MLB The Show 21 will not be included in the service forever. However, it’s worth noting that even if the baseball simulation is eventually removed, subscribers to the Microsoft membership will get a discount on the release’s MSRP, so will be able to buy the game at a lower price than it’s available for on PS5 and PS4 – and still get a “free” rental for an as-of-yet-undetermined length of time to boot.
The hard working development team at Sony San Diego won’t be too fussed by this; it means more people will be playing its game, which is a good thing – especially after a particularly challenging development cycle. But for PlayStation, the optics of this are unfathomable; we’re genuinely curious to see if it’s going to try and make good with its long-time fans, because surely the only option here is for it to put the product into one of its own subscription services in response.
Ryan has argued that Xbox Game Pass, as a business model, is unsustainable. And he’s probably right – unless you have the trillion dollar deep pockets of Microsoft, of course. Yet, under his watch, he’s seen one of PlayStation’s tentpole internally developed titles launch day one on the very subscription service he’s argued against. Whatever the chain of events that led to this outcome, this is such a bad look that it honestly beggars belief.
Do you believe PlayStation had no say in this matter? Do you think the optics are being exaggerated here, and none of this matters that much? Should Sony just ignore this, and let its fans proceed to pay full-price? Tell us subscriptions aren't sustainable in the comments section below.
Comments 234
But sony had no play in that decision so this article is false....
Exactly who is this bad for? Devs get more people playing the game, Publisher gets lots of money, Xbox players get the game as long as they keep drip feeding MS money month in month out, MS get more subs, and PlayStation players have the same situation they always did.
I think a lot of the comments on PS and twitter were made by people who don't care about or understand optics.
The rest of these comments will be about how "The Show" isn't a "tentpole title" outside of the US.
Is Jim Ryan the person who said "Sony knows generations" before putting Spiderman Miles Morales and Horizon Forbidden West on PS4?
Well said @Get2sammyb. Everything mentioned is well articulated and much appreciated. Let's hope Sony are listening because it's unbelievable that this has happened.
Microsoft coming guns blazing , 2 consoles a more powerful one and a capable cheaper version , Game pass , Buying countless gaming studios , Now putting a Sony Game on Game pass day 1
Lets see whats moves Sony makes now because they becoming the underdog
@UltimateOtaku91 As I said in the article, if they don't have enough leverage to veto their own game from being put into a rival's subscription service at launch, then they signed a terrible deal with MLB that basically gives them no control over a product they fund and develop.
Secondly, if they really had no input over this at all, then they should have taken measures to ensure their PlayStation customers have similar methods to play the game, whether it's being part of PS Plus or PS Now. Even a discount for PS Plus members would at the very least be some kind of acknowledgement!
And thirdly, if MLB completely blindsided them here and made this deal behind their back without any prior communication (which I don't believe is what happened), then I go back to the first point: they signed a dreadful deal.
@Medic_Alert
I don’t know, typically people big into sports games just play the one, usually FIFA, and actually buy very few other game. Just drop endless money into GTA and other crap. Meaning paying over £11 a month every month for the benefit of playing the one game they can’t then sell on is not a big draw.
Any other franchises other than sports or COD / Fortnite though, and your comment would be on point.
I hope we learn what has actually transpired here. This is such an odd scenario that you’d think April Fool’s were at play.
Imagine Jim Ryan laughing it up: “I really got Sammy going this year...” 🙂
It’s just plain funny. Doesn’t impact me still buying the game and to be perfectly honest, might increase the player count to the point that they can afford some more legends to be put in.
@get2sammyb
“ Secondly, if they really had no input over this at all, then they should have taken measures to ensure their PlayStation customers have similar methods to play their game, whether it's being part of PS Plus or PS Now.”
Honest question: why?
If MS want to drop a load of money to subsidise a subscription service that’s their choice. Why does that mean Sony have to follow suit?
Is the answer that “optics” thing again? Lol, because I really think you overestimate the number of people who know or care.
This should be a fun comment section. Sony was just after that sweet gamepass money -sits back and watches with popcorn-
Surprised this happened but no need to make a mountain out of a molehill. It’s not that big a deal, it’s a baseball game with micro transactions.
In many ways it makes good business sense to include the first one on Xbox in Gamepass, lock gamers in and reap the rewards later.
Game Pass isn’t free either they aren’t “giving it away” as the article states.
@get2sammyb MLB pay sony to develop this game, that's it, what platforms it goes to is then up to MLB and they wanted it to be multiplat which sony agreed to.
Xbox then obviously said to MLB here's a lump some of money to put it on gamepass, Sony have no say in the matter as they have agreed to just develop the game.
Hence why in the future sony shouldn't bother developing this game and free up the San Diego studio to develop something else whilst another developer deals with MLB, the game would still come to playstation platforms
Hey PlayStation, do something ...please
@Machines
I hope they do become the underdog, maybe they’ll reverse arrogant decisions like censoring and banning games in that case!
For me, I don’t care about stuff like Gamepass and buying studios as much as I do VR (and the studios working on VR games will not be bought by MS of course). That’s a personal thing though, I have so little time to play I’d rather more expensive yet more amazing experiences, rather than a load of generic stuff cheap..
@themightyant
Loi MLB The Show doesn't have any micro transactions i should know i been playing the show since Ps2
Ehh for Sony they will be getting paid a lot for the Game Pass deal, probably more than they forecast the game making on Xbox so you can see why it’s happened. Sony don’t want a Game Pass alternative as their games probably earn more than a Game Pass alternative would. Doing this deal doesn’t really contradict what they’ve said.
@munstre You're missing my point I think: I'm saying it's a dreadful deal if Sony has absolutely zero leverage over what MLB does with the game it funds and develops. There's an argument that PlayStation had no say over this, and I'm saying if that's true then they cut a bad deal.
But if we assume they did have a say over this, then we can also assume they thought launching on Xbox Game Pass was a good or at least acceptable direction to take. Which makes Jim Ryan's comments look ridiculous first of all, but also I would have liked to have seen them reinvest the cash they took from Microsoft into giving their loyal PlayStation fans an alternative means to playing this game.
@Peach64 If they're making more money from this deal than they would have forecast for the product anyway, then: a) Game Pass is sustainable, contrary to what Jim Ryan said, and; b) They could afford to give their loyal PlayStation fans a discount, or include the title in PS Plus or PS Now at launch.
@UltimateOtaku91 I don't think that's how it works at all. I think Sony funds its San Diego studio to make the game, under license from MLB.
If the scenario you propose is accurate, then Marvel also pays Sony to make Spider-Man, which isn't the case.
I'm more in the camp of this being not that big of deal. Sure it loooooks terrible to the hardcore gaming minority, at least those that both buy The Show AND visit websites like this religously. But really, I don't think Sony does anything. Dumping it on PS Now or Plus loses them potentially millions in sales. Being on Game Pass exposes them to millions of players who've been locked out before. It's a great situation for Sony business wise. The only real issue is hurt feelings, players feeling like we're owed something that was never promised.
But again, like I said in the previous thread, Microsoft is also dunking on Sony in increasingly hilarious ways
@get2sammyb but doesnt sony own the rights to the spider-verse? Ie spiderman, venom, vulture, mysterio, etc.
@Medic_Alert
Of course you can with the right timing. And what sensible person would buy games full price? Lol
@get2sammyb marvel allowed sony to make spiderman games in return of Sony letting them use spiderman in the latest films as Sony "own" spiderman for films. It was a mutual deal.
Whereas MLB said if you want our licence then you have to play by our rules and we want it multiplat.
I totally agree that is a very feel bad moment for playstation owners, and should have been resisted by Sony.
In the practical sense though, I still agree that Gamepass is unsustainable in it's current form. I'm sure Microsoft know it is too. Netflix has never been profitable, they've always gone into debt for the sake of growth, and Gamepass is in a similar position.
The deal seems too good to be real because it is. Microsoft are losing money to gain subscribers and achieve a dominant position, and when they have enough they will jack up the price and reduce the service.
@get2sammyb not a big deal but Game Pass is $9.99 a month. Game Pass Ultimate is $14.99 and only adds the pc Game Pass and Gold. They could probably make it more confusing but not by much.
@Medic_Alert
This is a silly conversation, it’s different too for everyone (I never need to spend more than £10 on a game).
My point is, this isn’t bad for anyone.
@get2sammyb It’s not really the same though. Sony spent money making this game and can now put a huge amount in the ‘income’ column for it. If they had their own Game Pass alternative, it’s a lot harder to judge how much money the game makes back. A game like MLB would probably not cause the subscriptions to go up very much at all, so it would almost be like you’ve just taken a massive loss by making the game.
It comes down to the contract. When a contract exists between a developer and publisher, they lay out who is in control of their product. The situation is difficult to navigate from the outside, but the game industry partners use the contract to clearly differentiate and delineate who does what during the creation of the game.
And obviously MLB are the ones in control.
I'm never a big fan of these game company heads talking negatively about their competition, even if it's mild or indirect. Talk positive or just focus on yourself. It doesn't look good.
"Tentpole Title"
I’m kind of beginning to think if you release a game on Xbox and if your title doesn’t start with call or grand and if you don’t manage to get one of the monthly slots on gamepass you’re game is dead on arrival.
This is why I can't understand why people are rushing to buy the PS5. This is a different Sony from the Shawn Layden days. History is starting to repeat itself. Feels just like it did during the PS3 era. With them porting there games to PC, Jim Ryans poor leadership, and unbelievable deals there making like this with Game Pass. Im in nooooo hurry to buy a new console. The wise ones will sit back keep playing PS4 and PC and watch how this unfolds over the next few years. Because I have a gut feeling this shallow Sony won't say a word about this and move on like its no big deal. Just wait till the ZeniMax purchase starts putting exclusives out for Xbox with this Sony we have now. I can see alot of people jumping ship in a few years.
@ThomasHL https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2021-02-17-is-xbox-game-pass-too-good-to-be-true
I wonder if they’ll chuck some dolla at Rockstar and make the next GTA PS exclusive. If anything’s going to REALLY stump MS it’ll be that.
@itsfoz Sony would practically go bankrupt if they did that. GTA 5 is one of the best selling games of all time.
@everynowandben so with 18 million active subscribers subscribing for a year at full price brings around £3.2 billion a year? But then has to be shared between all the games on gamepass plus whatever lump sums Microsoft pay developers to put their games on gamepass and then that huge sum doesn't seem enough.
Marvel spiderman on ps4 has sold over 10 million copies, let's say the average price sold is £35 a copy, that's £350 million for one game that they get to keep for themselves, so sonys biggest blockbusters probably bring in a combined figure close to what xbox get from 18 million subscribers which has to be shared out?
My figures may be off but I can see where Jim is coming from, last gen xbox didn't sell very well so they needed game pass to get the player base up where as Sony didn't, and this gen xbox are going all out on gamepass as they know without gamepass xbox series X/S would of sold less than the xbox one did
@everynowandben
Lol, quoting Eurogamer has become akin to quoting The Guardian or The Daily Mail. Since they were given unprecedented early access to Xbox X then Series X/S in development, their “opinions” have all been of one type.
We all know Sony took the money, and that's fine, they are a business first.
@thefourfoldroot Read what the developers are saying about GamePass in the article.
Its not really big deal, It only sells about a million a year. Id imagine a large number of that million are pretty hardcore players so would have to buy the game when it leaves gamepass anyway.
@everynowandben
Would these be the developers who have already taken MS money and put their games on Gamepass (which they now need to succeed) or developers that have chosen not to?
I’m sure it’s good for small devs who don’t want to take as big a financial risk
@TrueAssassin86x That's objectively false. They've been hawking those MLB stubs for years now, and they're a huge source of revenue for PlayStation.
@everynowandben I'm very skeptical about that article. For example: "When certain people try to call Game Pass the Netflix of, or the Spotify of," Spencer says, "there is a fundamental difference... that these games are all for sale."
That's just wrong. Films that eventually go onto Netflix are for sale. Music used to be for sale until streaming and piracy made that impossible. They're trying to suggest that development budgets won't be impacted by Gamepass by suggesting sales won't be affected by Gamepass - and yet the article thinks that Gamepass is aiming for a scale of 50 million users to be profitable - of course that will impact the number of people buying games.
They also admit that Gamepass isn't profitable at the moment 'It's in an acquisition phrase' - and that once customers are acquired Microsoft believes they'll stay even if the service is no longer as good. They argue that prices wouldn't have to increase because costs go down with scale - and yes development costs go down with scale, but bandwidth costs do not and games are a magnitude bigger than films on that front.
They keep trying to argue that this isn't Netflix - but I don't see how that argument is real. Development costs for Netflix obey the same scale law. Netflix is also trying to widen it's consumer base - and achieved a scale much greater than gamepass will. Netflix has the same infrastructure costs - and what we've seen is that Netflix has continually raised it's price, whilst at the same time offering a smaller fraction of the 'must-see' content.
But more than that - they acting like Microsoft will keep the price down out of the goodness of their heart. And that won't happen. The article essential outlines the idea that Microsoft achieves a subscription monopoly - at which point Microsoft is free to raise prices as it wishes. On the other hand if other subscription services arise (like we're seeing with film streaming), then Microsoft won't have a monopoly, but they'll also find it much harder to license such a rich category of exclusives because they're competing with everyone else. Either way the quality drops.
The article lists a long list of tech services of similar ambition, each one of which started off great and got a little bit more expensive and a little bit worse as they reached closer to profitability. The article claims Gamepass is the Unicorn that will be different from everything else, whilst at the same time listing a huge amount of precedent for why it won't.
@UltimateOtaku91 my guess is Microsoft is aiming for the 70-30 split it gets with most third party games. At that rate (and using your numbers) Microsoft would pay out 2.24 billion to developers while pocketing .96 billion for internal development and profits. I wouldn't be surprised if games like MLB and Outriders got a larger piece of that 2.24 while the indies get a couple million.
All of this is a course speculation but it's not hard to see how Microsoft could make it profitable. It's a lot safer to bet on subs than to hit home runs everytime. Microsoft learned that well with Office.
It also completely belies Ryan's claim that the price hike of next-gen games are necessitated by the costs when the same next-gen game is on offer on another platform at no additional cost.
@TrueAssassin86x my understanding is the Diamond Dynasty Collector mode has micro transactions. Though it’s less egregious than ultimate team etc.
Regardless my point wasn’t just about MTX but getting Xbox owners interested in this game series for the first one and reaping the rewards in 2022, 2023, 2024 etc when Xbox players buy the next games.
Like Introductory offers it’s smart business. Have this one for less, we’ll lock you in and get you later.
The only thing I can't get over is Sony charging $70 for a freaking yearly baseball game. I'm willing to have a nice honest discussion about games like Demons souls and Returnal being $70 but I not hearing it about a baseball game that will be outdated in less than 12 months and worthless in less than 2 years.
My take on it is almost verbatim what @get2sammyb is saying, minus the opinion that Sony had a say in this XGP thing. I have a hunch they knew about it, but there was nothing they could do because of the MLB threatening to take away development rights.
@Medic_Alert Microsoft won't really have the current version of most of those on Game Pass, and it's the current version that people tend to care about.
Yes, Madden 21 is on Game Pass right now (via EA Pass) - only AFTER the price had dropped under $20 on a couple sales because the season is over. When Madden 22 comes out in September or so, it won't be on Game Pass right away - not until after the Super Bowl, most likely. Even Game Pass subscribers will have to fork over huge bucks for the game, and more for microtransactions. If I could turn off all the stupid menu animations and upselling, I might be able to actually enjoy the stupid thing.
But yes, I think it's true that the Game Pass model is unsustainable long term - but it's also true that it's a huge draw to XBox while it lasts (at the current price point). If you love The Show, $60-85 for the PS4/5 versions, or what you might consider FREE for the XBox version (if you already have Game Pass) - that's an easy decision there, especially if you don't have a next-gen console yet (or don't have the PS5, specifically). Repeat that over and over - Outriders this week, for example, and Bethesda titles in the years to come - and throw in better backwards compat than Sony has (which is most important early in the generation - like, right NOW), and Microsoft has themselves a very compelling ecosystem. I love my PS5, but I'm looking for an XBox Series X, too. They've convinced me.
It all goes up in smoke if MS overcharges for Game Pass, though. And I don't see how they make the same kind of money if they keep it $10-15/month forever.
@thefourfoldroot Are you asking because you didn't read it? Here's some more developer success story examples for you:
https://www.purexbox.com/news/2021/03/xbox_game_pass_subscribers_spend_20_percent_more_on_gaming_says_exec
https://www.purexbox.com/news/2021/03/descenders_dev_says_xbox_game_pass_helped_the_game_sell_a_ton
https://www.purexbox.com/news/2020/09/drake_hollow_dev_reveals_highly_successful_xbox_game_pass_launch
https://www.purexbox.com/news/2020/12/yes_your_grace_has_exploded_in_popularity_with_xbox_game_pass
I could probably go on, but I'll stop there.
@RobN “And I don't see how they make the same kind of money if they keep it $10-15/month forever.” SCALE.
If they can increase subscribers from the current 25 million to 40, 50 or 60 million
@everynowandben
Maybe my post was too subtle, lol.
@ThomasHL Netflix doesn't sell movies. Spotify doesn't sell music. MS sells games, and their rental/subscription model is increasing sales. That is the big difference.
@munstre If MS starts to provide a bad experience for the consumer, people will just go to the thing that's better. Competition allows the consumer to choose and therefore win. MS is providing a great experience with GP, and I'm all for it. Also, just FYI, I also subscribe to PS+ and have PS3, PS4, and PS5 all hooked up and played regularly.
@Machines Every company is a underdog against companies like Google, Amazon, Microsoft, Disney. The US companies are the danger now not the Chinese.
@UltimateOtaku91 The mandate from the league was that the game needed to be released as a multiplatform. I doubt that the MLB had any say on it being released on Gamepass, that is more likely a deal that MS and Sony worked out (maybe MS will give something Bethesda related in exchange? who knows). It might also be an experiment Sony is doing to see how much they could make following this model if they decide to implement it in their own platforms un the future.
@themightyant Yeah thats right Netflix grew and the price still doubled its just a question of time.
Sony didn’t. mLb did.
@munstre Thats what Amazon did too the local businesses lets see how long this takes.
@themightyant the reason gamepass numbers are so hight atm is mainly due to the free trial (£1 for 3 months?), it will be interesting to see out of the current gamepass subscribers how many are on the free trial period or been given it for free with another product.
With gamepass being £15 a month with no free trial period left I wonder how many will stick with it for the long haul.
Change is a lot easier to swallow when it’s properly communicated. I’ve felt for some time now that PlayStation has a communication problem. Where’s the vision?
Anyways, recent developments in the industry have reinforced both my personal fear of the streaming future and my commitment to purchasing physical media for as long as possible.
@munstre Are you not counting Apple MacOS as an option??
Xbox game pass is a wayyyy better service.than your psn+ and that laughable psnow.
@Flaming_Kaiser To be clear I didn’t say the price won’t go up, I believe it will. I argued as much on the Eurogamer piece linked. My response was specifically In answer to “I don't see how they make the same kind of money if they keep it $10-15/month forever.” Scale is one answer, doesn’t mean greed or constant expansion won’t necessitate a price increase.
@UltimateOtaku91 I agree a lot are still paying far less through £1 offers, converting of Gold and MS rewards (I’ve paid £5 a month on average for GP Ult. for years).
Regardless it’s a great deal right NOW and I expect the numbers to keep soaring for now, but it will be interesting to see how much subscriber churn they have when it actually becomes full price for many.
Again I made this argument in the same Eurogamer article a few months ago
https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2021-02-17-is-xbox-game-pass-too-good-to-be-true
@get2sammyb Sammy your article with quite a lot of them is full assumptions lately did you hear anything confirmed from Sony?
What if the game is on the pass for a small time and people like it. Do they need too buy it with sportgames full of MT and a thing people commit too do they get recurring money from the game on the gamepass?
One other thing sportsgames have recurring revenue the Sony firstparty singleplayer games have not so yeah thats not sustainable.
And i hope we dont a liveservice, always online, digital only, copy and paste future with forced multiplayer.
So yet another thing Jim Ryan said turned out to be bull****. How unsurprising. How freaking long does Sony intend to let this man run PlayStation into the ground?
#FireJimRyan
@themightyant Again my point is Netflix only grew and it still doubled in price with no sharing.
@UltimateOtaku91 You aren't calculating the money gained from the sales of the games themselves.
@Flaming_Kaiser Netflix kept ploughing money into the business to keep expanding with deals and then original content. They were also in a low (sub) cost acquisition phase funded by VC etc. Once through this and ubiquitous prices went up.
As I said I expect the same here, prices will go up, though the situation is different.
If you want to rent the game you still can. Not sure why you are forced to buy it.
I’m starting to think gamepass is coming to PlayStation. Phil Spencer never said bethesda wasn’t coming to PlayStation he said it’s going wherever gamepass is. Just a though....
Any thing Microsoft puts on Game Pass they have to pay for it.
Do not forget game pass does not cover online multiplayer. You will need to also buy Xbox Live or Game pass ultimate for $180 a YEAR! I personally prefer PS+ that gives both online and games for $29-$59.
@UltimateOtaku91 DLC, battle passes, micro transactions, etc.
I am playing Destiny 2 from GamePass and bought the current battle pass and will buy all future ones.
Companies make a ton of money from the above items.
If you don't know what deal was made between the two, you shouldn't really comment on it. I'm starting to dislike this site more and more. It seems like Push Square's PlayStation news site, is becoming more and more a anti PlayStation site. From the game journalists to the commenters. Nothing pleases any of you.
@get2sammyb " If they're making more money from this deal than they would have forecast for the product anyway, then: a) Game Pass is sustainable,"
Actually, it shows the opposite. If Microsoft is willing to pay more than it would normally make, that's almost the definition of unsustainable.
I don't know all the details in a situation like this. Is it possible MLB mostly funds or subsidizes the Sony studio, which is why they are publishing the game?
Either way I totally agree that the optics are bad. But honestly, without this article I never would have known about it.
Didn't Jim Ryan say that Game Pass isn't sustainable for Sony? Way to twist what was said.
Also doubt Sony "released" the game on Game Pass, the publisher on Xbox is MLB itself.
Clickbait title, shame.
While Sony is big, it's not Microsoft big. Even Nintendo isn't Microsoft big. They can afford to throw down whatever cash is needed to get whatever they want, if they want it. I get the feeling that M$ spent a pretty penny to make sure the game not only goes multiplat but that they can secure it for gamepass.
Ultimately if their fans want something enough, papa xbox can reach into their deep pockets and buy it. This is why Jim's statement is still valid. Sony doesn't function that way, they profit off of their software and usually sell hardware at a loss.
I think the answer is simple, now playstation is runs by the accountants, not by gamers like in the early ps4 era 😕
It isn’t sustainable. Microsoft simply taps into Office/Windows cash cows
Anyone who said they didn’t want to pay $60 for a sports game every year can now play it on GP. You can play Madden also. Hell, Microsoft does not even care if you buy an Xbox. It is on Xcloud Also.
If Microsoft wants to subsidize yearly sports games for us, happy to let them. Frees up some cash for games like Ratchet and Clank. GamePass is great for gamers.
.
I don't like Jim but I feel that if Sony are saying its not sustainable for them then surely they know what is right for them and their development costs etc.
Who cares if it's on Gamepass? If MS want to spend a crap load of cash to make their sub appealing then that's up to them? Why shouldn't these business be able to transact the way they want to? This sense of entitlement we have towards games and the platforms they sit on is just backwards. Above everything else MS and Sony are businesses and are here to make money. They don't care whether you think their games should sit on the competitions platform or not.
At the end of the day what has really changed? If you want it you pay the price. I suppose I just don't get how hung up people are getting with what MS are doing it's a different journey.
@redapt This is what I was gonna say Sony isn't even publishing the game on gamepass its MLB Advanced Media. So this being on gamepass doesn't even seem to be Sony's decision.
As baffling as this is, I dont think PlayStation fans need to worry about this. All you will find out is the same thing xbox players already know: games sell, even if they are part of game pass day one.
People actually paid for Gears 5 despite it showing up in Game Pass, quite a few people too, the game is one of the best selling entries in the series.
If you find this frustrating, though, get ready for Deathloop and Ghostwire Tokyo both to land day 1 on GamePass PC.
The media should be taking the side of Sony and making it clear this is a typical business move to attract subscribers by providing seemingly crazy value to get subscribers, hurt the competition and then jack up the prices, just funny how the media works where they'd happily point this out in some circumstances but do the exact opposite in this case
Luckily it's just a baseball game. Baseball being the most boring sport in the history of mankind, they should pay people to play their game.
Jokes aside, it looks a bit silly for PS. Hopefully it will push them to come up with a proper response to GP. Competition eh? Anyway, it's a good thing for Xbox gamers, can't be upset about that.
I'm new to this site, and frankly, I'm shocked at how narrow-minded, short-sighted, or just plain old dumb some people here are. Gamepass isn't sustainable? Gamepass is going to lower the quality of games? You guys have to be joking.
A service like Gamepass is quintessentially the perfect environment to cultivate new and exciting games of the highest quality. With the old business model, a game has to appeal to the largest demographic otherwise the dev is risking the game doing poorly.
However, on a Gamepass-like service, the problem is not only mitigated but eliminated entirely. If the dev is getting paid upfront enough to cover development costs, then it actually encourages it to take risks and make the game that it WANTS to make. This method of distribution is highly conducive to creativity and diversity.
Now on the subject of sustainability. A service like this can be extremely lucrative without the need to hike up prices. If Microsoft can attract 100 million subs in the next decade, each paying a flat rate of $15, well... I'll let you do the math.
The only caveat with a service like this is that it requires large capital to even attempt it. There needs to be a heavy investment in exclusive content, and the company needs to be willing to bleed money for several years. For a company like Microsoft, this is very doable and obviously, it's the path already taken.
Sony can't do this though, not by itself. It needs the backing of a player of Microsoft's scale, the likes of Google or Amazon. If it were to partner with either, it could offer a true Gamepass competitor with a robust cloud service to boot. This I believe is Sony's only option if it wants to stay competitive.
@get2sammyb Quick correction: Game Pass is $9.99 for console only. Game Pass Ultimate is $14.99.
So Xbox gamers can get the game for even less (assuming they aren't playing online since basic Game Pass has no Xbox Live Gold - and one must really hate his/her money to pay for both basic Game Pass and Gold separately)
Wonder how much MS paid Sony for this?
@Anonimia This is a 'for the fans' site so obviously it's not going to be too intelligent on average nor is it going to take non-ps news very well. That said, the comments are mercifully better and less toxic than on some pc news site. gamesindustrybiz is probably the best one i have seen so far but it's more for the developers rather than fans.
Anyways I'm interested in this as well and I largely agree with the effects subscription will have on the videogame market. I don't think amazon will partner with sony since they have similar ambitions with luna, atleast for now. Google on the other hand may, considering they have largely stepped off from promoting stadia, which ofcourse was never going to be a hit considering the lack of a subscription model. The other company I can think of is maybe apple that has the amount of money to be able to do this.
@get2sammyb I completely agree. Sony signed a deal that screwed PlayStation players over. That's the absolute truth.
@Flaming_Kaiser @get2sammyb You say that the article is full of assumptions and then make a ton of your own assumptions to argue with the article. 😂
@themightyant This article proves that GamePass does work.
https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2021-02-17-is-xbox-game-pass-too-good-to-be-true
Oops. It actually does work and clearly makes business sense.
Maybe I'm not understanding something, but since this game is in agreement with the MLB, then wouldn't they have all the say in the end? That or maybe Microsoft came down to MLB headquarters and brought a large duffle bag, or something like that
Whats the point of this article exactly? Who gives a monkeys if sony let one of their games into xbox pass or whatever it is? And am i right that 2k actually own the mlb franchise and sony just let it be released on the ps4/5? So would it be a fair assumption that maybe sony had little say in the matter? Another no point whatsoever article by pushsquare...
I think the title is wrong, there's no contradiction. Running the service is unsustainable, as your only source of income is a modest subscription fee, as you don't release your own games outside. Sony and others meanwhile can enjoy cool millions for directly selling their games to the service, as Microsoft is trying to boost subscription level.
On a side note, Pushsquare, maybe consider reigning in the use of the phrase "Japanese Giant". Frankly it's a bit cringe worthy. Not forgetting the fact that Sony is rather more Californian than Japanese these days?
Ever see the " No Problemo" episode of "The Inbetweeners"?
MLB hardly has a presence in Europe, so I can't comment on how important it is. I also understand that MLB has a hand in this.
However, if Sony doesn't have control over the franchise anymore, and seemingly the better deal is offered on the competitor's console, then you'd really have to wonder if you want to continue using the talent for projects like this, instead of allowing them to develop something original that is exclusive to the PlayStation platform.
@__jamiie I’m confused, I didn’t say Game Pass didn’t work.
I also linked to that Eurogamer article (comment #75), I read it and commented on it at the time.
Although it’s worth noting that while its an interesting thought provoking piece, it ‘proves’ nothing. It conflates lots of different quotes from industry figures and analysts, combines it with a lot of conjecture and presents that as fact. That’s not proof of anything.
@get2sammyb Just out of interest and balance, was there a comparative article about how ‘badly’ Microsoft had done when they released a VR version of Minecraft, a MUCH more important game than MLB, for no added cost, day and date on PS4? There isn’t even an Xbox VR version, it’s a console exclusive!!!... absolute sacrilege /s
Optics, the word of the day!
😉
Wait, you lot were okay with HZD going multi-platform or doesn't it count because 1) it's PC not another console and 2) the game was released on PC three years after its PS4 launch.
Oh and whilst it has received patches on PC after it's release we're still waiting on a PS5 upgrade of the game. Here's a previous example of Sony prioritising another gamer sunset over it's very own customers but you don't have a problem with this. Why? The more gamers argument? Switch users want BotW and Mario to be ported to other consoles do they? Oh but more gamers will get to enjoy these titles, some will say. Majority of Switch players will day want to play them then buy a Switch!
Is Halo on PS? Gears of War? Don't be daft!. They're both on PC mind but MS are PC so this doesn't hardly count.
It almost seems like Sony have given up competing with MS and it's extremely deep pockets.
🤔
Everybody's golf got an arcade game ad well, let all get upset and cry!
Sammy is cracking. Dude, it's simple, the model IS unsustainable. For Sony. It is not unsustainable for MS, who can afford to sink billions at a loss just to remain a relevant player in the gaming industry. Also, if Sony or MLB are getting that sweet gamepass money, that has no bearing on the fact that Sony can't afford to put their 1st party exclusives on ps plus, for example.
@themightyant I was on your side. I was trying to back up what you were saying. Sorry if it came across differently.
@Anonimia USA, USA, USA!!!!
You Yanks sure love a monopoly!
Xbox are bad for gaming, they're the Empire from Star Wars not some plucky underdogs.
Don't visit this site again.
😉
@__jamiie no need to apologise, tone difficult to judge on the web, particularly before coffee!
What a week in Sony announcements. 😆 I fully understand the contexts and footnotes at play here but won't even bother excusing my biased fanbutt from wishing for stuff like Gravity Rush dilogy on Switch that much more seriously now. 😜 I mean, League influence or not, we're talking older first-party titles on a platform that doesn't compete with PlayStation versus a brand new first-party title on the one platform that supposedly does!
I don't personally think it's what Jim Ryan said about it being unsustainable. The real truth is that Sony don't have the money to be able to do it like Microsoft can, that's the real truth. Of course Jim Ryan can't admit that.
Might be worth a read for anyone interested in why PlayStation and Ryan have been making the moves they've been making (from November 2019): https://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2019-11-07-sonys-jim-ryan-we-had-to-make-changes-to-deliver-our-ps5-dream
MLB isn't really a tentpole game is it? People are talking about it like its The Last Of Us or God Of War. That said I do think it's kind of insane that Sony (or Jim Ryan more precisely) would knock gamepass then stick a game on it day and date.
The only thing I find !!!SHOCKING!!! is that all those hardcore Xbox Fans who worship the 'Game Pass' think it going to be good value forever?!?! Once Microsoft have brain-washed everyone into 'Game Pass', they will up the price and it won't be as cheap as it is now. CAN'T ANYONE SEE THAT???
@Carl-G lol ok then. Regardless, Xbox has the OPTION of gamepass or you can still just buy games. So no worries either way. It’s all about options. Remember when Sony said Playstation didn’t need EA Play? There is a lot of hate for Xbox here but maybe just try Gamepass?
If it is successful you will get to enjoy it for a long time. If it is unsuccessful (or unsustainable) then you will have been able to enjoy it while it lasts. Feel sorry for anyone missing out!
@Medic_Alert I got 3 years of gamepass for £73, pretty much the price of 1 PS5 game.
Jim Ryan is the hypocritical right that keeps on giving... I look forward to more hypocritical statements by the man and the damage of PlayStations brand and reputation, he’s off to a very good start I must say.
Sony haven’t got a clue how to react to Game Pass. I recommend they just get that PS5 slim out the door, actually make the system reliable, and get that VR2 launched with games like Half Life Alex.
@Shepherd_Tallon This is a very interesting read, thank you for sharing!
@Rjak
Funny i find "futball" to the most boring sport of all time all u do is kick a ball for a few hours and if someone comes close to you fall down ZZZzzzZZ
@nhSnork Gravity rush on switch would be fire, and you know what, since Sony isn't even going to use the Gravity rush IP in the future,since they are less focus on games like Gravity rush, they should sell it to Nintendo. Nintendo will then hire the Gravity rush devs, and we can finally get our Gravity rush 3.
@TrueAssassin86x It's the most watched and played sports on the planet for a reason.
It has a very inclusive geographic appeal, from Africa to Europe to South America and to Asia.
So yes , you are in the minority, no other sports brings people of the same country and continent together(international football) while simultaneously bringing people of different country and creed(Club football) together like football does, not even the Olympics.
Football is not just a sport, it is a way of life.
But I do not blame you, if you aren't in or weren't brought up in an environment that loves football, then there would be a disconnect with the joy of football. From the country I am from, no, from the continent I am from , it is impossible to have not grown up with football in your family. So it is impossible for me to understand your indifference towards football.
P.S. if you want to watch a footballer who doesn't dive like a swimmer, then watch Lionel Messi, he is the greatest footballer that has ever played the sport or will play the sport, and he is famously known for not diving, plus he is a magician with the football.
The deal.was.made with.MLB and not Sony. You just sound like a big baby right now, also who cares???
This situation is weird AF but honestly all this drama is even weirder to me
Reading all these, it's pretty clear that PlayStation is DOOMED and will probably be done by the end of the quarter
We now know Jim Ryan is aiming to run the brand to the ground (but apparently he's really bad at it, if the reports I've seen are accurate - because PlayStation seems to be doing better than ever right now)
@TrueAssassin86x Football is a close second or third, for sure
@Ken_Kaniff so what? We should stick with our 7+ years old PS4s? People are actually crying like this over a baseball game “tent pole title” the things this site does for clicks and outrage 🤦🏾♂️.
Clearly PlayStation is going to die and be taken over by Microsoft soon. Because an MLB game is on game pass. I’ve realised that you people are so anti consumer and are actual gatekeepers. Anything another brand is doing, you automatically want Sony to copy or put a stop to. If Sony stops it then you’ll cry because Sony are backwards or being complacent, if Sony copies it you’ll cry because Sony are playing too nice. Bunch of cry babies
@Playstation they create this unneeded over the top tension, fuel the discourse and rage in their articles and basically let their audience hate on Sony in the comments. They are no different from people like the United stand or arsenal tv, profiting off their fans discontent.
Interesting thing about gamepass is that a good few devs have sold more copies of their games than anticipated because of them being on gamepass
I really don't care about gamepass..i got extreme value from ps+ this year alone for dead cheap..42e a year with online play. Please someone post a list of the games provided by the service and let's compare to gp.
@RazielReaper Any time! The comments under the original article that last one is referencing are interesting too, even if they are from 2019: https://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2019-10-09-whats-going-on-with-playstation-opinion
@get2sammyb what’s with all the “optics” all of a sudden?! 😋
That's the same Jim Ryan that said "Who would want to play this" about PS1 games?
@QueenOfHearts38 I think that was said during the Bethesda/Ms round table a few weeks ago there was also a quick comment about whatever smart device you choose for gamepass...definitely see gp on smart TVs soon
I'm not sure the price of GP will increase by much in the future especially with the service(more than likely) coming to smart TVs this year and the trials of xcloud on ios are happening right now, MS are also trialing games(fortnite, apex legends plus a few more) that don't need gold to be able to play online which then makes series s a great option for families, I could see a tiered system for GP perhaps but I doubt there will be an increase in price
@Playstation take the fanboy glasses off and you will see. We are getting hit from every direction at the minute. None of this was happening with the last ceo, so who else is to blame? It has been one bad story after another and Jim is at the reigns.
Don't be loyal to a console, be loyal to yourself. We don't have to be happy with everything they do.
I was thinking about buying Outriders day one, but it was announced to go to GamePass day one so now I’m not. I don’t have an Xbox and I’m not going to pay 60-70 for a game on my PS5 that is offered on a different service for 10 dollars a month. That goes for all games, including MLB.
Bare minimum, Sony keeps their ongoing ***** up (exclusives on PC, etc) and I’ll eventually just jump to PC, I don’t care about the build price. I can afford 60-70 for games but that doesn’t mean I’ll pay it. Sony and Microsoft might as well abandon consoles and produce software only.
@Ken_Kaniff I'm one of the unwise ones then, because I love my PS5 and the difference between the dualsense and the dual shock is night and day. I would never go back to my Pro now. Yeah GPU is great value but I hardly turn my series x on (thought outriders was crap) because all its good for at the mo is backwards compatibility. Yes I'm sure in the years to come MS will start dropping big new games on it, but in the mean time I'll be enjoying returnal, deathloop and R&C in the next 3 months.
@everynowandben your assuming that there will be competition left to go to. I think it's obvious that MS are in this for the long game, they have deep pockets and haven't stopped spending yet by all accounts. Healthy competition is great, heck I have an xbox sat next to my ps5 so I want them to compete. But what happens if they buy ubisoft next and take all those games away. Then go after another big developer like Activision? Competition then becomes a monopoly which Sony couldn't compete with, then gaming would change completely. And not in a good way.
So are Sony losing money or making money by putting this on game pass?
Because the latter implies they lied about GP, the former implies they've made a terrible business decision with this game.
And, if they do make money with this, what if they decide to put more games on GP, or even put GP on PS?
I have no interest in GP, but the potential implications of this are interesting.
Game Pass is actually only $10 per month. The other $5 is for online play which most people who play sports games are going to pay anyway.
Whether Game Pass is sustainable or not in the long term all depends on how many subscribers they get.
@Richnj Thing is - Sony most likely didn't decide to put the game on Game Pass, MLB did.
I don't think Sony will put their other games on Xbox.
Maybe it's a trojan horse and Gamepass rentals is going to implode with the virus 🤔
Haha
@TrueAssassin86x Hahahaha.
Well, you would. I'm watching West Brom thump Chelsea 5-2. Pretty bloody far from boring.
@Voltan Right, but their decision or not, they are either losing or making money from this deal.
And Sony are just a company. Their goal is the money. Either they lose money and shut their MLB deal down, or they make money and reassess their business relationship with MS/Xbox and GP.
That's what makes this interesting.
@thefourfoldroot If you play exclusively on playstation and you find that the game x is exclusive to the plateforme you would support it. But if it's not then why bother paying full price?
@Richnj Though it's likely MLB forced this with Sony having no choice in the matter much like a Xbox release in the first place, Jim Ryan lying would still be very in-character. After all stuff like "we believe in generations" followed by crossgen releases of Miles Morales, Sackboy, Horizon Forbidden West with more potentially incoming.
@Anonimia I think the question is whether the subscription fees will cover all those up-front costs for MS in the long run. And, assuming there is a profit at all, how much of what they gain from those fees are they going to want to reinvest in the service? And how often will fees need to go up to offset rising production costs?
And to be clear, I'm not anti-Game Pass but I am left with yet to be addressed concerns. It's a fair enough deal at the moment, though; there's no denying that.
@Grumblevolcano I always found that a weird flex while transitioning between two digital generations.
Generations, just like paid online MP and exclusives, are antiquated models. They just don't have a place in the future of gaming. So it's weird he'd use it as a brag.
@zupertramp Maybe they are just trying too kill off the competition just like Amazon or those big American superstores.
@theMEGAniggle It goes way deeper than just this Game Pass move. Since Jim Ryan took over head at Sony its been constant silence and bad moves in the shadows like this that they hope you don't notice. If you need me to go in further detail for you to understand, I'll be more than happy to.
@Richnj If exclusives are antique im quitting consolegaming whats the use then. Its like you are happy in the end it means less original games. Only online, liveservices, no ownership, less choice, money at one big company so a monopoly and then they can charge whatever they want. Look at the US with their great internet no choice just pay.
Maybe it’s unsustainable without PlayStation users subsidizing Game Pass by paying full price. Now there’s a kicker.
@Serialsid lm glad your happy with your purchase. Im just making a point that MS is clearly making moves to take over the market and Sony isn't budging. You can see since Jim Ryan took over there more concerned with investing in other businesses than ever competing with MS. We should speak again in a few years and see if your still as happy when MS start flooding the market each year with exclusives and were still getting the same amount of two or three a year. Because Sony has done nothing now to compete with that in the future.
I miss Shawn so much...
@Ken_Kaniff Agreed, and on top of that we need to remember that the 70$ Dual Sense controllers have a shelf life of 3 months.
@Serialsid Sounds like you're making several more assumptions than I did - I don't share your doom and gloom vision of the future of gaming.
@munstre Comparing Windows and macOS to Xbox and Switch is inapt and nonsensical. I'm also going to choose to look at the reality of what's here and now rather than wallow in a pessimistic vision of the future.
@Flaming_Kaiser yeah this is definitely the feeling I get. though there's not too terribly much competition. or most of the competition is less direct.
In any case there's clearly much room for subscriber growth this early on but once they reach a certain level of saturation I can't see prices staying this low. Or prices stay the same and they fund just enough to keep service afloat.
Don't know. Do know that the "I just buy the games I want" model has been working for quite some time now.
@Flaming_Kaiser There are plenty of genuine concerns there, but I don't see how they are tied to exclusives.
Are we saying that Spider-man would not have sold as well, or would have been a microtransaction filled live service had Sony made it a multiplatform game?.
@get2sammyb So you wrote an article without knowing nothing about the deal behind the scenes yet blaming Sony for it anyway. Great journalism there! Clearly MLB made Sony take the games multiplatform and is in control of publishing on the other consoles. MLB gave them an ultimatum, what do you expect Sony to do? Just drop their MLB series they've been developing for years? Someone else would just develop the games and Sony would still lose out. The constant hysteria here is a joke.
For me this PS v Xbox is developing all the hallmarks of Blu-Ray vs Netflix and it seems like Sony is on the wrong side of argument, If I have £180 to spend a year on games what are the choices, 2 brand new PS5 games or a year of Gamepass with a choice of over 200 games?
We all know how films on physical media sales have plummeted, down 50% in the last 5 years....
@munstre Sony's just going to have to give in and do the same thing with PSNow. They don't have the money to fight MS but their brand is stronger. I have no idea how 3rd party publishers are going to survive when streaming fully takes over though. Either way I couldn't care less about either brand of box, but I would rather have Sony as the market leader as their brand appeals to more than just America and we get a wider variety of games made overall. Just look how awful the 360 generation was with MS leading the way. Everything was geared towards Americans so it was nothing but bland shooters.
@Richnj The only one I agree with being an antiquated model is paid online.
Games like Cyberpunk 2077 and Halo Infinite showcase exactly the importance of generations by how much releasing on the old consoles damages the game. Cyberpunk 2077 runs like trash on PS4/XB1 and will likely always run like trash on those consoles, cancelling the game on those platforms and releasing it for PC/PS5/Series X in like 2022/2023 would've saved it.
Meanwhile on the other downside of blurring generations you have the Halo Infinite style situation where as we get closer to launch we find out lots of things are not happening which is likely because the XB1 can't run it so everything has to be simplified (e.g. only 1 biome, weather system is very basic).
As for exclusives, 1st party exclusives are important because they take better advantage of the hardware. For example Microsoft are way behind with their controllers compared to Sony and Nintendo which has a knock on effect on multiplatform games where most of them just straight up ignore features that improves gameplay like gyro for all platforms all because the Xbox controller doesn't have it.
@Ken_Kaniff I agree that MS are trying to take over the market, and they have the deep pockets to do it. It concerns me what the gaming space we obviously all love will look like in the years to come if they do. But on the exclusives front, MS have still yet to deliver great 1st party games of the quality that Sony does. They have bought all these studios but they to show that they can deliver. It will be very interesting to see the quantity vs quality that gamepass will have to juggle in the years ahead.
Yes I agree that Sony do need to make some moves that show they are listening. But id rather have Sony's studios than microsofts.
I still don't think Gamepass is sustainable and eventually someone will look at how much money they're bleeding and decide it's not worth it. Until then, I guess Sony made some easy cash on a property that tbh must struggle outside the US right?
@Oscarjpc strange, my 2 controllers that have hundreds of hours of usage are still working perfectly well 4 months later. There are probably 10 to 20 million dualsenses in the wild, it's expected that several thousand would have problems. Nobody apart from Sony know the true numbers.
@AyanamiReign I suppose there are people in Europe who enjoy baseball and the MLB games but personally I don't know a single person who ever played any of them - and I know all kinds of gamers, including those who basically only play sports games. If I had to bet, I'd say 90% of MLB sales are in the Americas.
@Grumblevolcano I’m countering the Gyro argument because a lot of games rerelease for Switch and have it. For instance, Overwatch. There are there for Switch, not for PS4. And as far as I know OW never supported crossplay, so why wouldn’t you add that to PS4? At the very least it could have been added when they added it to Nintendo. Look how many games are patching in Haptic feedback. No, that has nothing to do with the XB1 controller, and everything to do with the Nintendo fanbase being pretty vocal about that feature and Nintendo helping to pushing it like Sony is pushing haptic feedback.
@everynowandben well I hope you are right. Time will tell eh, if MS keeps to the same number of studios it has now and just tries to deliver great games on its service then it will be great competition for Sony and Nintendo. But if in the next few years they start buying up even more studios and developers and take their games away from the other two then it becomes a problem.
@Playstation my fanboy glasses are blue! Did journalists raise the price of games? Did journalists reward xbox fans while "native" fans received nothing?
I'm a Sony pony through and through, but i'm not blind and i dont like the way sony have been going since Jim Ryan took over. A bit of a coincidence, what?
@Tlotoxl Depends if you value quantity over quality. How many great films have Netflix actually produced? I don't include those that they purchase but actually greenlight and provide funding for before a shot has even been filmed.
Also, even Netflix are dependent on other companies producing and funding content which they eventually nab and then add to their stewing service, often for an indeterminate period of time.
Anyway, one argument we constantly hear is that GP subscribers still buy games outright. If that's the case then are they actually spending less or more?
🤔
@mousieone It's better with 3rd parties supporting gyro on the Switch but still far from ideal. If Series X controllers had gyro you'd see a massive increase in gyro support for 3rd party games on both PS5 and Switch.
@Grumblevolcano First, it’s not “better” there are very few Switch games that don’t support Gyro. They’ve even patched older games like Doom and Doom II to have it. In fact, companies get lambasted over it. I don’t know where you getting “far from ideal”. I can only think of a handful of games that don’t.
Second, if that was the case you’d see none of these companies adding haptic feedback, but so far every game is. And why don’t games that are only on PS4 have gyro? Hmm?
I never had a Xbox but Game Pass looks a great deal if it stays at that price and the games continue to flow out like they already are.
Good to see Sony and Microsoft extending the olive branch lol
@Grumblevolcano Cancelling the last gen versions would not have saved those games in the slightest.
The reason Cyberpunk and Halo were bad was because of bad management. There's a reason that those two games, out of the dozens that have last and next next releases, have had longer than normal dev cycles (8 and 6 years respectively). Cyberpunk especially, somehow targeting the PS5 before the release of the PS4, not the fault of the 8th gen there. These games likely had multiple development reatarts. Halo Infinite showed off a teaser in just 2018, with no gameplay. It was more than likely that the footage from 2020 was just build put together in one year (they said that the build shown was also a 2019 build because of the pandemic).
And this is just two games out of dozens.
The way games are made is to build the game on PC and scale it back for the console you are targeting. That's how we get PC games with fantastic graphics and why PC can target a wide range of cards. Any dev that is releasing a PC version, like the devs of Cyberpunk and Halo, are already building a game that has very scalable graphics, and so building a last gen version shouldn't be too much of a problem (unless you're screwing the pooch).
And "not believing in gens" is more than just having a last and next gen version, but ensuring that previous games can be brought forward. No one expects Cyberpunk for PC to well run on a low end graphics card, but if a low end user bought the game, when they did upgrade, they'd be able to play the game. Similarly, a high end graphics card user could still go back and purchase and play games that launched 20 years ago.
@Col_McCafferty Netflix has produced plenty of excellent films (particularly documentaries) and TV series but that is not the point, the point is that they are incredibly successful with the large library subscription model which Microsoft is doing a version of and doing very well, a million new Gamepass subscribers every month. Sony's response? to make games even more overpriced that they already were. (just like 4K UHD disks)
@Playstation please enlighten me? What is the role of a CEO?
I don’t understand why this matters -or how it effects you in anyway.
They run businesses, they sell their product any way they want to. And if you want to buy an Xbox and pay the pass fee then you can do so too, go for it - or you can pay the PS fee and play it here. What does it matter to you? I presume because some instinct is yelling “it’s not fair! I bought this console and they didn’t!”
But no one is banning you from playing the game - nothing has changed for you.
And if you feel so entitled to be the only ones who can play this game for some bizarre reason and want to really complain, don’t buy it! Of course then you won’t actually play it at all which seems to defeat the objective somewhat.
Btw, over on the Xbox side they are crying because Forza was put on Steam and on the Nintendo side they are shouting because MH Rise is coming to PC.
The whole thing is ludicrous.
LMFAOOOOO THIS IS TOO RICH
@get2sammyb to me this all just reminds me of the PS3 era I remember the $599 fiasco "Ps3 is a computer not a console. Get 2 jobs to pay for it" and all the bad PR that came with it. And Xbox took a lot of market share off the wave of that.
What happened after? Sony responded and responded big. I do wish they would be proactive and not reactive with these things but I think (and hope) the same thing will happen here.
Playstation is Sony's biggest asset they cant afford to let it drag out too long.
Classic projection example "Oh, we don't have X, therefore it sucks!" Yet goes on to release something on the very platform they smeared. Lol. 😂
I don't game enough to warrent using Gamepass regularly, but it's still an awesome feature, no question.
Sony is so full of s-t.
@Serialsid Well the one scary thing is now that Bethesda is owned by MS. They will have all the time in the world to curate these games to the best they can be. You are right though, as of right now its the wait and see approach. Thats why I waited to buy the 5. Sony is still putting almost all its games on both consoles, and with how they've been since Jim Ryan taking over. Im going to wait a few years and see what Sony does to compete with MS and then make my decision console wise.
Big fan of game pass. At the minute my ps5 is just a glorified ps4 pro but I'm ok with that as I'm sure theres better to come and I've been able to relegate my pro to a vr exclusive machine. MS is killing it do far this gen so I dont get why the hardcore dont just go for both...
"Some have tried to argue on social media today that the Japanese giant simply had no say in this matter: the title is published by MLB on Xbox platforms. But it seems unfathomable to us that Sony negotiated such a bad deal with the league that it couldn’t even veto an Xbox Game Pass version of a product it created on launch day. "
I think it is pretty obvious that MLB had all the power here. They were the ones who gave the ultimatum to make Xbox versions or lose the license completely.
Sony agreed to the multiplatform deal because of the money they would get from it. It's plain and simple. It's not like MLB threatened Sony with a gun in their head to signed this deal. They already had the terms and conditions in place before the transaction happened.
@Beatrice isn't this the same mentality that Xbox had on their launch of Xbox One?
@thefourfoldroot its bad for the playstation fan who invested into the platform and is seeing Xbox Players having a better deal on a game a first party game from the platform he owns. Imagine you buy MLB The Show every single year, investing on PS hardware, then, you got your PS5, and was waiting for the game you love to launch. You already know it's multiplatform, but it's okay, because it will release on PS5 anyway. Then you found out you need to pay $70 to play the game, but the rival platform is having a better deal for a game the platform you support developed. This looks bad, real bad. And that fan is not happy with it. He invested years in the franchise, and the bennefit was for a plataform who never played the game before, never spent $1 dolar on the game, as it was exclusive. That's the issue.
Sony can kinda make itself look better with a simple move tho. Release MLB day 1 on PS+
@eduscxbox i could see a discount , but free? nah i don't see that happening. ms probably paid to put it on game pass.
@Deljo im okay with it too. i mean i didn't buy a ps4 pro , and had the base ps4. so being able to play ps4 at a better res and fps , made me want to replay a lot of games again. so far with what i have played on ps5 though , i'm pretty excited to what the future will bring.
jaaajajajajajajaja
@eduscxbox
No.
Firstly, Sony got the benefit from previous years development, so in your hypothetical scenarios in which anybody (read fanboys) care that “their” game is going to a competing platform they still got exactly what they paid for for all those years, an exclusive game that was likely better for being developed on only one platform.
There are also very few if any players who really consider that sports games should be platform exclusive, and even fewer that give a damn about baseball.
In your hypothetical story, the PlayStation player expected to pay full price for a game and are paying full price for the game (or being sensible and waiting a while). So their position has not changed. The only additional thing is that other players can rent the game on Xbox if they want to pay £8-£12 a month, month in month out, for Gamepass or over £100 for the year. Which may be a fantastic deal depending on how much gaming time they actually have, but doesn’t impact PlayStation players one jot.
For once I 100% agree with Sammy on every single point he made. This is all scumbag Jim Ryan's doing. For sure. As I said yesterday and I'll say again all he cares about is the bottom line and making money. He doesn't care about what makes playstation a special place to game. Which is why in his words their are a whole "slate" of playstation games coming to pc. He doesn't care that this dilutes the playstation ecosystem and makes the playstation a less unique place to game. He doesn't care about legacy consoles and the nostslgia people have for them because of the amazing memories that were created with friends and familly whilst playing. Which is why he unceremoniously shut down the Ps3, Psp, and Ps Vita stores without any preservation in place. On top of that they didn't even warn some devs still porting their game to the Ps Vita. Which is repugnant. All during record profit. He doesn't care that Japan Studio had a hand in some of the most iconic games in playstation history and shut the studio down for all intents and purposes. Just because it didn't make enough money. As a result lots of great talent left the company, like 24 year vetren Gavin Moore who directed the Demon's Souls Remake. And finally he doesn't care that they allowed the MLBA to take the publishing of a first party game on a rival platform away from them and embarrass them by putting it on gamepass because it will net tens of millions of dollars. Finally he doesn't care that he lies and misleads as his generations quote as well as the one in this article shows. When confronted about it he was shameless and indignant. Despite the Ps5 more than likely being the fastest selling console of all time with 7.6 million sold, and making record profit last year, the year has not been a 100% success. I am the biggest playstation guy there is and despite them doing a lot of stuff that is really great, this MLB The show going on gamepass day 1 really crossed a line for me. Same with not having the professionalism and respect to inform Ps Vita devs the store was closing soon. There is still not a chance I would ever go xbox but I hope playstation can survive lyin' Jim Ryan!
Even in the worst case scenario where a game doesn't stay on Game Pass long, as a GP gamer, you get a discount on purchasing the game outright. And this discount stacks on top of any sale. So let's imagine that there is a summer sale where this game sells for $60 instead of $70. And then you get this GP discount off that $60. So you're still way better off than paying $70 on a PS5.
@PullnPray actually, Game Pass Ultimate (GPU) is $15/month and that gets you Game Pass for Xbox, Game Pass for PC, XCloud for cloud gaming, Xbox Live Gold, and EA Play. So currently (March 3, 2021), there are 378 console games and 257 PC games.
After reading through all the comments up to this point you’d think that @get2sammyb had sacrificed children on an altar Jim Ryan built... but I’ve read the article again and in essence it’s a much more coherent version of a lot of the mouthing off in these comments. It’s a reaction piece, it’s an opinion, and Sammy is fully entitled to write it!
For my part, I think this isn’t something to get too upset about unless you are a devotee of American rounders. Sorry my transatlantic amigos.
Re Game Pass as a whole - brilliant value, especially while there is a dearth of new titles for the new machines; I’m really happy for Xbox gamers right now. Fast forward a few years however and if Bethesda etc. don’t deliver comparable exclusives to Sony’s it’ll look like a glorified back-compat/emulation service for what will almost certainly be a higher price than it is now.
So let’s all calm down and wait and see shall we? In the meantime there’s great stuff to play on all machines, with Sony still having a considerable first party advantage.
@Jaxx420 There was a rumour that PS5 was going to be $599 but got decreased to $499 because of the Series X|S leaks. With all the damage Jim Ryan is doing, I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest if that rumour was true.
@Grumblevolcano he does have that ps3 era Ken Kuteragi vibe to him.
Back then. Kaz came in and changed a lot for the better. Trouble this time is I dont know who would take that mantle. Hermen Hulst is likeable but I dont think he has that public speaking nailed that Kaz did to turn around any bad PR.
@Richnj How do you think these things get funded? They can invest more make it custom for the a console. No triple A game besides the Rockstar games get polish and yes they are still full of MT so yes i dont believe it will work. Look at a Andriod Phone or a IPhone with supportif you have one platform too work with the games will always be better you really believe that the Last of Us 2 it will never be as good as a multiplatform game.
@Jaxx420 I dont really care about the PR i care about good games so a good vision for the future.
@Flaming_Kaiser The last of us 2 was designed to work on two systems though.
How were Naughty Dog able to target two consoles with different specs and not sacrifice the quality or fill it with MTXs?
@Palleon I can guarantee you that very few are outraged and are just acting as if they are for clicks.
I love it when gamers suddenly become legal experts without having any idea what happens behind the scenes.
"It was a bad deal! The shouldn't have accepted it!!!!!!!11"
Truly laughable.
While I agree that it doesn't look good for Sony (what does, lately?... sigh), it's easy to say that Sony should have gotten a better deal as if it were that simple.
@Deljo considering the backlog that the average hardcore gamer has, getting yet another console feels like an overkill.
Sony said they believe in generations and then...
@GwynbleiddPT Ehh, this one I feel isn't a contradiction. Two upcoming exclusives, Returnal and Ratchet & Clank, are very much exclusive to PS5. They do believe in generations...
Well... this us a load of nothing...
The service IS unsustainable until it hits somewhere from 80 to 100m subs. After which point MS will do the bait and switch and will have less big titles on there.
Sony getting some Microsoft money to put their game on the service is nothing strange. They get money and MS is stressed more.
I don't see the problem. It's just a sports game that mostly only sells in the US. Having it on Xbox as well is not a bad deal. It's not like MLB is anyone's reason to buy a PS.
@Nem
Actually I have seen a lot of primary Xbox players cite The Show as their reason for getting a PlayStation. I only got a PS3 that generation for The Show.
@aj102404 I am sure, there might be a few, but i doubt it's a huge amount.
@get2sammyb
I was a bit dismayed by this situation, but after thinking about it, it's actually kind of brilliant. Microsoft has gone from being this braggadocious company spouting out console sales numbers, to a much more nuanced and vague company. Metrics and KPIs now make up their quarterly reports. Well guess who now has a clearer window into those metrics? Sony.
@get2sammyb I agree just because i don´t believe Sony had much saying in this decision,
But i think i saw/read somewhere something about a Sony Game Pass kind off thing coming soon,personally i believe in a PS Now revamp and more marketing on it.
@thefourfoldroot they got the price wrong, its £7.99 a month. Its only $14.99 if you want Console, PC, mobile and Xbox live all in one package.
Lol, there's beautiful irony in the the fact that I just found out the coming Game Pass offerings on Push Square and not PXB!
Between this, generations, and psvr this is the third time in half a year that Jim Ryan says something, and then company reality is the opposite a mere few months later. I'm really getting the impression that he has very little knowledge of what the company is actually doing at any point. Either that or internals of the company are just at the point of ignoring him and overriding him.
@Medic_Alert
I've been able to download the Immortals DLC on PS5, I bought the season pass on the current spring sale. However, I bought the complete edition on Switch, and while I was able to download the New God DLC, I am currently unable to download or access the Myths of the Eastern Realm DLC, despite the eShop clearly showing I own it and the season pass.
How has this game been out since November, yet still hasn't fixed this DLC issue?? 🤦♂️
@TooBarFoo
I’d think anyone with Gamepass wants Xbox live but, ok, £92 a year without Live to play online...as I say, worth it for many but not for all depending on how much time one has to play. Those with limited time will tend to not finish enough games on a sub service to warrant the cost, plus would need to fill up their limited game time with the games they really wanted to play rather than have the games curated and limited by others.
@Richnj Sony platforms if its so easy why dont thirdparty have so different performance.
And firstparty games blow thirdparty developer games out of the water in every way. I would not trade a big studio triple A thirdparty for a Firstparty game ever.
@Medic_Alert You never know. Maybe Sony thought the bad press and pushback from their hardcore fans was worth it? This way you get a ton of new players into the franchise and hopefully continue to buy it in the years to come. It’s all about money. Just a thought.
@Flaming_Kaiser So are we saying that the Knack games are better than RDR 2, MGS5 or RE2?
I've said this for a while, Game pass is only possible if you have Microsoft's billions. Xbox on their own could never afford to this without the larger company paying for it. You'll never see this from Sony or Nintendo due to the sheer cost of it. It is a great value for sure and the devs likely get the best out of it with money up front. Very interested to see where this goes.
This is based on lies. Sony didn’t release it.
@Carck office is one piece of software.
Someone made the math, basically. You have to add the development costs of the games and see how many subs you need to break even.
MS has an objective of 80m subs. They will be losing money until they hit those numbers, i gather.
Going by just one game? That's like saying every Sony game will be as bad as Life of Black Tiger. Who cares lol
@Richnj Ah ok lets tell that in a different way 95% of my favorite games are firstparty. A Knack is something firstparty and its still not a terrible game not great either but in the end i can say without a doubt if the Firstparty games go multiplatform and i only have RDR2 too play im going for a Switch.
@Flaming_Kaiser I mean, Switch is an awesome machine, if you have the means and time to pick one up, I'd recommend doing so.
But hypothetically, say Sony decided to join a unified platform. They'd still release the games with extremely high quality, in a way that equals or beats out the quality they have been known for, but also released on PC and Xbox. And they also continued to produce PS consoles.
So you could still buy those franchises on a PS console, without any sacrifice to their quality, would you still give up on these games?
@thefourfoldroot Yeah, but Xbox players are playing the game for $14 and we are having to pay $70 for it.
@thefourfoldroot @thefourfoldroot it doesn't matter if "it was always like that" yes, people always paid for MLB on PS, but I can't believe you really thinks it's perfectly fine for a sony game to have a better deal on Xbox than on PS, come on. It looks bad from every perspective possbile. Imagine if when Xbox launched Minecraft Dungeons for example they priced it $30 on Xbox, didn't put into game pass and at the same time released the game Day 1 on PS Plus. That would have looked really bad for them, a Microsoft game can't have a better deal on Playstation than on Xbox, it just makes no sense at all, and that's what's happening right now.
@eduscxbox
I imagine it is also the same price on Xbox as on PlayStation. Unless you want to pay an ongoing monthly fee for Gamepass to rent it instead of buying outright.
@thefourfoldroot Gamers who joins subscription services usually gets the 12 month library access. I think its safe to say that you can finish the games you want to play within that time period. You can still buy the games on the subscription service anyway, its not like the PS and Xbox store will prevent you from buying them just because you're a member of PSNow or Gamepass.
@Machines the only thing missing are the new games.
Maybe its just not an important IP for Sony. Sometimes you have to throw a dog a bone. I mean MLB is only big in the US.
@Medic_Alert The sports games you mentioned are very important: most of us in the core fanbases tend to assume that an average PlayStation owner is one who buys up all the exclusives and the big AAA multiplats, but the truth of the matter is that many home console owners only buy them to play the latest sports games or CoD, and GamePass which will allow them to play all of these for a small monthly sum while accessing all the latest entries of these sports franchises will entice them hugely.
Buying an X. Sorry. 🥴
@dirtyvu Yeah, I know. But this article as comparing paying $70 on PS5 vs paying $15 per month on Xbox. But Xbox gamers actually only have to pay $10 per month for the normal Game Pass subscription to get the game.
@Carck Why don't you try to make the math then? Each AAA exclusive is about 100m. How many exclusives per year plus all the third party deals. How many subs per year do you need?
I am certain they aren't making money on it, especially after blowing 7 billion on Bethesda.
@Medic_Alert
Well that definitely sucks. I lucked out on my Switch copy issue though. Apparently I had an update, I could have sworn I checked prior to my issue, but now I can't remember. Anyway, updating the game fixed my issue, on Switch anyway.
@Carck Well, we are talking about game pass, not microsoft as a whole.
"Content and services" is pretty broad.
We'll see.
@Carck @Nem MS already made profit on the zenimax purchase. The market cap for MS increased by $13 billion on the news on the Zenimax purchase. This was not just a $5B increase in value for stock holders, as even with the cash reserves reducing by $7B value increased by $13B so MS made its stock holders the full $13B in share price growth. That $13B alone could well bankroll a $1B Game Pass loss for the next 10 years and MS will still have made a profit.
I expected more from Samuel.
It's been reported, and quite frankly we all knew, that MLB forced The Show onto Gamepass. C'mon man, Sony admitted it was a decision by MLB.
Honestly, watching this site for years now, are u guys on the take? Seriously, it's unbelievable that a supposed PlayStation dedicated site is so anti-PlayStation. I thought, maybe they just hate VR, hence why they ride PSVR. However, it's starting to look questionable. Extremely so. That's the problem. Sony doesn't play the game. They need to appoint palm greasers as full-time staff. It's sad to see how twisted portions of the media have become. Doom and gloom Sony, meanwhile, they are coming off 7 years of absolute fan service and historic success while continuing to lead next gen in most major categories while continuing to support their fans with a wealth of quality content, VR, and innovation. DualSense is a revelation, PS+ is spectacular, they've had 5 of the last 8 consensus game of the Year winners, their 2021-2022 expected lineups are impressive. But doom and gloom because... Gamepass. FoH.
subscriptions aren't sustainable. Hope Sony will take that humongous cheque from m$ and invest in actual ps5 exclusives that I would play 🙏
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