Topic: Official Push Square Xbox Thread

@AdamNovice Cross-Play, Name Changes and PSNow downloads are all things that Xbox had and Sony have been pressured into relenting on. They could have continued to refuse to offer these despite the constant criticism from the media and pressure from its user base but that would possibly have led to even more negative press. Consumer demand was helped because Xbox offered all of these features. It also added external HDD support long before Sony did and again 'pressure' from gamers forced Sony's hand. You can argue that they didn't have to concede but their competitors offered these and that led to negative press which probably had a bigger impact than listening to their users.

I can't deny that Sony's first party studio line-up is great - finally catching up to the console and making the type of games they were known for on PS3 - took a while. MS certainly needed to up their studio count to catch up with Sony's studio count - its a lot easier to release more quality games with many more studios!

Sony has a longer history in gaming and the Japanese are very loyal so its always going to be difficult for MS to do well in Japan. Europe are more discerning and likely to pick the console that has the best overall games and Sony's Japanese games don't sell that well - regardless of how 'good' they may be - outside of Japan. Considering the population of Japan, the Japanese games often sell more in Japan than the rest of the world. Its often their European and American based studio's that sell the most games - Games from Naughty Dog, Guerilla Games and Sucker-Punch for example - 3rd party exclusives from Insomniac and FromSoftware have helped too of course bolster their worldwide exclusive game sales but games like Persona, Gravity Rush and Nioh haven't sold that well considering the size of the user base and their review scores. That also helps Sony in Japan of course and I wouldn't be surprised if Sony continues to dominate in Japan and orient - even if MS does make a far superior console with a much bigger library of quality exclusives. VR is the only area that I can think of that Sony has been particularly innovative and forward thinking on - All the features and updates are playing catch-up to Xbox and/or Nintendo. Even Nintendo's Switch had cross-play with other consoles before Sony. Maybe they are not so arrogant that they stick to their guns on things, suffer the consequences of negative press and eventually added features that other consoles offered.

BC may well be something that Sony may need to keep its user base - not the fanboys that would buy Sony regardless but the ones that want to buy the best console they can for the money - the reason why a lot of XB360 console owners jumped to PS4 - but then they may just keep their PS4 and library and jump to Xbox for the library that offers - especially if it's also the 'best' console for all their multi-platform games. I will own both next gen consoles anyway. I hope they are both equally as good as I prefer to use my consoles evenly - not have one for exclusives and old games (BC and free PS+/GwG games) and the other for all the new releases and its exclusives. I want a difficult choice as to which console to buy games for but right now, its an easy choice.

@kratosMD What would you perfer, that Sony not relent to the backlash at all? A lot of things had to be figured out before they could allow it, so executives just towed the company line.
You mention lack of exclusives compared to PS3 but the vast majority of those game didn't sell.
Back in 2012 IGN PlayStation's Greg Miller had a pizza bet with IGN Xbox's Mitch Dyer where he bet that the collective sales of PS3 retail exclusives would outsell Gears of War 3...he lost. This was the year where it seemed like Sony had an exclusive every month.
Games like: Starhawk, Sly Thieves in Time, PS AllStars, Twisted Metal and LBP Karting and all of the flopped.
Sony took a different approach "Quality over quantity" and it's mostly worked this gen. As for 3rd party exclusives well most of them Sony got by default from Japan due to Xbox have a poor market there and Nintendo for a long while didn't have a console that was financially viable to put those games on in the first place so PS4 was literally the only show in town.

@bamozzy Not sure I agree about Europe, the EU has been a PlayStation bedrock for 3 generations now so MS will have to work hard to make inroads but I have a feeling they will be largely looking at America first.
Also you say MS forced Sony's hand but it's not that different from when Sony got them to change their DRM and always online stance, it's swings and roundabouts and companies are just adapting.

@AdamNovice I know some people are hoping Sony will buy Quantic Dream, Housemarque or even Insomniac, but I think it's great when these studios can remain independent, while also putting out great games. If the main headline of any Sony press conference would be they threw some money at something, I would be disappointed actually.

Of course, if this acquisition is what saved Obsidian, than that's way better than the alternative. But from where I'm coming from this is the news: before today Obsidian existed and made games for Xbox, and after today they will continue to be making games for Xbox.

Also, we know of quite some big acquisitions by Microsoft (Rare, Mojang, Gears of War) and looking back, none of these acquisitions themselves have brought great things for the gamers.

@KratosMD @AdamNovice Yea, I feel like the "Sony is arrogant, Xbox is going to do big next gen" is more a narrative in the media than reflecting reality actually.

Just going by first party output.

Sony has invested heavily in this during the last few years, but they also lost studios like Twisted Pixel, Lionhead Studios and of course those Kinect studios. Of course they are now in a better place than they were, but they are in no way at the same level as Sony.

Meanwhile Sony has invested heavily in their first party future as well. Not by buying studios, but investing in their current infrastructure. They doubled the size of Guerilla Games this year, so they can produce more. They invested heavily in Sony Bend last year, which even more than doubled. They have opened up a new studio in San Diego, possibly working on an Uncharted game. They are investing in PixelOpus. They created North West studios for VR games. They also are currently publisher for Kojima Productions.

Honestly, Microsoft pales in comparison to the investments Sony has done in first party games this generation. The only difference is Sony is not buying devs that are already making games for their platform, but investing in their studios.

And the decisions... I feel Sony is making the right decisions. I don't know what "sensible" decision Sony isn't making right now.

@kratosMD It's much better now then when they said things like "the generation starts when we do" and "You'll need two jobs to get PS3" also come on Sony not investing in more games is bloody rubbish, they have delivered a huge amount of exclusives over the generation from big and small so I don't know where you got that idea from. Games are taking a lot longer to make so when we were used to studios releasing 3 or 4 games in a generation we now get 1 or 2 instead, also some of Sony's focus has been on VR where studios like London and Japan have been working. And if PS5 is coming next year then it makes no sense to fund PS4 at this point when PS5 becomes the priority.

@AdamNovice The EU has had some areas that are more 'Sony' than MS but last gen, MS had the lead for years in Europe - I know they caught up. Its not Swings and Roundabouts as MS has been far more forward thinking. Sony didn't get them to change their minds on DRM and Always online, that was the public. Sony just continued to do things the same way they had done with the PS3 and the same as the XB360 had done before. That was a feature that MS thought was a 'good idea' to implement but the public didn't agree and so backed down before it released and went back to doing things the way they had done before with the 360.

It would be 'swings and roundabouts' had we had DRM and always online - but Sony decided to break away from that and then MS followed suit afterwards. However MS had offered name changes (and have for years), offered cross-play and Nintendo too and MS's Game Pass had downloading from the start - Sony are playing catch-up. Its like Sony copying the Wii motes with its PS Move, building in a HDD like the Xbox instead of memory cards like Nintendo had. Sony obviously led the media playing capability with the PS1 playing CD's although are now 'behind' as a media player as the Xbox offer 4k HDR Bluray, Dolby Vision and Dolby Atmos spatial audio so I expect they will 'catch-up' with the PS5 there. Unless Sony comes up with a 'must have' feature first, then it could well be swings and roundabouts where MS will have to consider adding that feature - VR is the only thing I can think of right now that would be 'swings and roundabouts' if MS do add it but DRM/always online is not an example at all - Sony certainly didn't have that feature first and lead MS to implement that feature.

@Kidfried Mojang just announced that Minecraft has 91 million monthly users! That's bigger that fortnite or any other game, so it's obviously working for gamers and still getting new updates and content. Rare released a very popular game which we maybe don't like but it's obviously very popular for many people and they are still getting updates for that game and finally it's not a game for kinect while gears had a very good 4th installment and on the way to an amazing 5th one with two spin offs so I'd say that's pretty good for gamers.

I'd say let's enjoy good games regardless of platform and let competition bring the best for us customers.

@KratosMD Too bad you've not responded to my comment, in which I argue why Don't has been investing more in first party than Microsoft this gen, but they're just less loud about it.

Also, publisher, both platform holders and other video game publushers, are just never going to make as much games as within a generation as before.

There's multiple reasons for that, like games as a service, longer development time, etc. We all know these trends. Look at EA, Activision, Microsoft Studios, etc. Or just Rockstar, who only released one game this generation, versus 10 or so last gen.

We even see that with Nintendo. Four years between Wind Waker and Twilight Princess, five years until Skyward Sword and six years until Breath of the Wild.

I don't have to explain to you how much Japanese devs have been struggling with this as well.

My point being that there is no way going back to "those days". Devs are making less, but more ambitious games.

When comparing Sony in that respect to other publishers, they are actually doing really well.

They have only expanded their first party studios, so I don't see the complaints you're making. Sony hasn't been resting on its laurels at all.

@NecuVise True. I confused my own preference (not liking Sea of Thieves vs liking Banjo Kazooie 1) (thinking Gears 4 was a disappointment versus loving 1,2,3) (I would have loved Mojang to develop new ideas instead of continuing Minecraft) with the general gaming public, that does like these.

@Kidfried I'm also not a fan of sea of thieves but it obviously works for many people. I played gears 4 and it was great, basically more gears 1, 2, 3 and they made it like that intentionally, while they're going for something different for gears 5.

When Microsoft acquired Mojang they stated it doesn't make sense to make mine craft 2 so they obviously still work on the first game and Mojang enjoys that. They are also a very small team with some 50-60 people so they can't make another big ip, maybe only some small games.

@KratosMD Honestly, you're being unfair on Sony in pretty much every argument you make. If that's your feeling on the matter, than that's fine, but don't present it as objective facts.

When I talk about Guerrilla expanding, you're saying "will that result in more games?". Well, why haven't you asked this same question about Microsoft investing in Obsidian? How do you know that's going to result in more games for the system? From the way I've been looking at it, they were already making games for the system and thanks to Microsoft they can continue to be doing so. There's no quantifiable argument to make, why that may result in anything.

Meanwhile, Sony expanding is quantifiable. Sony has said they want to invest more in first party titles. Guerrilla Games is not making games-as-a-service games, so I don't see why you would assume that they will be using the staff for that.

Anyway, that doesn't matter, because Guerrilla Games has said this expansion was made so they could put out games faster.

@KratosMD I'm not saying Xbox is doing anything wrong. I think it's great for gamers that Xbox is investing in first party. And yes, I too hope that it will result in better results for them come next generation - be it in the quality of their outputs, the number of consoles they're selling or both.

What I am arguing against is your point that Sony is going to be left behind next gen based on first party support, that they're resting on their laurels, or that they somehow have become arrogant in this regard. Because that's not true. They're investing in first party support the same, if not more, as Microsoft.

The fact that we're seeing less games from them, is an industry wide phenomenon. Like I said, Zelda's are coming out less often too, the other publishers are releasing less games as well.

I don't get your "simple math" either. Doubling a studio from 200 to 400, so it can make more games (simple math: twice as much, potentially), is the same growth as buying two studios, which are both smaller. Investing in a studio, growing it from 200 to 400 is just as much a long term investment. Guerrilla bought a new place and everything.

This was a choice so they could make more games, which is... in your words "at least 1 more first party game" for Sony.

"So Sony has said they want to invest more in first party titles, isn't that what Xbox is doing right now as well? Yet somehow you're not willing to accept that." That was never the point, you're now just turning the argument around.

Anyway, I'm pretty much done here. I've shown you the ways Sony is investing in first party games - and that they're doing a lot too. If you're dismissing that, well then there's no way we're going to have a conversation and we'll talk come next generation about this again.

Sony have many more studio's but gave also closed down a few in recent years too - Guerilla Cambridge and Evolution stidios for example. MS is building up its library to increase its first party library and Sony's investment in studio's is likely to increase the size and quality of games without necessarily increasing the development time. I doubt we will see games from GG every year for example but we could see more than 1 or two big games a year from MS and we won't just be getting Forza Motorsport and Halo or Forza Horizon and Gears with the odd game from Rare, 3rd Party, timed exclusives or ID@Xbox releases supplementing the exclusive line up. Now we could get games from Obsidian, Ninja Theory, inXile, the Initiative, Playground games (other than FH games as they have expanded) etc - not every year of course but a couple of these devs a year releasing games should have an impact on the the perception of MS's first party line-up.

Believe it or not, GG was independent and made a multi-platform game before being contracted by Sony to make exclusives and then a year later in 2005, became owned by Sony. Sucker-Punch were like Playground games in that they were independent but only made games for Sony after their first game was released on N64 until Sony acquired them in 2011. Those 3 Sly Cooper games and the first 2 Infamous games were made whilst Sucker Punch were 'independent' - Festival of Blood released a month after Sucker Punch became owned by Sony. Naughty Dog joined Sony in 2001 and their first release as a Sony Studio was Jak and Daxter - All the Crash games were made in partnership with Universal Interactive Studio's and Sony whilst ND were independent. Three of Sony's biggest studio's were independent with Sucker Punch only joining Sony 7yrs ago. They may have partnered with Sony before but they were independent.

The acquisitions by MS now puts them on a par with Sony's first party studio's - although Sony do have partnerships with studio's like Supermassive, Quantic Dream, Kojima Productions etc and some good 3rd Party partnerships too which will add games to their exclusive line up. MS had to build up their studio portfolio, had to invest in their first party games - not just for the console for their ecosystem. Gamers need MS to be competitive to push Sony to be competitive too - not have the monopoly to be complacent and/or greedy.

Guys, Microsoft wants to become Netflix for gaming, their strategy is different from Sony's and that's why they're acquiring smaller studios mainly, so they can push new games frequently to Gamepass.

I thought I was participating in an ongoing discussion on a public forum instead of baiting someone into a discussion, but I'm sorry if that's the way you took it. I'm just used to people saying they're not interested in a discussion on a certain topic upfront, instead of first ignoring me and then going into discussion anyway. I won't bother you anymore, hope you have a nice weekend.

@NecuVise Whilst MS may well be pursuing alternatives to ownership of games with their subscription service, they are also offering these as traditional purchase options too. You can still buy all their exclusives in physical/digital formats to own them outright. If you want to buy any 'GamePass' game so you own it, you also get a Discount from the MS store and discounts on DLC too.

Of course having more exclusives can mean that they can build up their GamePass library and its clear they want to offer more games across more media but if you wish to purchase your games in a more traditional format, you can. There are advantages to buying Digital from MS or Subscribing to GamePass - maybe more so than buying on disc which has its own advantages - especially if you game on multiple devices - like PC and/or Mobile phone/tablet, but that doesn't mean that MS will limit the options to acquire these games to just GamePass.

If you buy Digital or Subscribe to GamePass, you should have access to your games, your save points and progress regardless of whether you play on Console, PC and even mobile devices. Just sign into your MS account on any MS device and play your games - whether that's 'streamed' on mobile devices or local on Console/PC. Maybe it is a bit 'Netflix' but where PC/Consoles install the whole box set to your HDD with mobile devices relying on an internet service to stream and regardless of where you watch, your progress through the box set is kept. Of course you still need to have an internet connection to update your progress, your save point but you can still watch the episodes on your HDD if you lose internet for a bit.

You need to be online to play PS+/GwG XB1 games, need to keep your subscription up to keep playing these. PSNow may well be 'similar' now you can Download (not that I know too much about it) and maintain an online connection and active subscription - although that seems to be just 'Old' games rather than brand new releases - also a bigger library. GamePass is just MS's alternative and doesn't affect those that wish to use their devices in the more traditional manner. The option though still exists for those who want to buy the games outright.

Point is, its beneficial for MS and MS's gamers - not just GamePass, but all MS gamers - whether they subscribe or not, whether they have multiple MS devices or just 1, whether they prefer to buy Physical, digital or not bothered about buying some games at all. GamePass is an option not the only option so more exclusive games from MS will benefit ALL of MS gamers regardless of how they consume games.

There’s a weird bug/glitch on Fallout 76. Whenever I go to fast travel anywhere my XB1 X shuts down, when I power it back up I get a message saying it was shut down to prevent overheating. I was enjoying the game but now I’ll just uninstall it, it’s not worth it risking it damaging my X.

@MaccaMUFC i know what that is, your playing a Bethesda game

i joke (kind of) if i was you i would play a big graphic heavy game and see if the same thing happens because if it does then chances are the issue is with your XBOX itself if not then the game is somehow causing your XB to not activate the fan when it heats up (at a guess) so i would leave it be until the game gets an update, either that or just sell the game

@FullbringIchigo There’s nothing wrong with my Xbox, aside from the fan making loud noises from time to time depending on which games I play, like RDR2, I have never had it shut down automatically due to overheating. I consider RDR2 a much bigger game than Fallout 76 and if any of those games were to overheat my Xbox I’d expect RDR2 to do that, not Fallout 76. I’ve rented Fallout 76 so I’ll be sending it back and may rent it again if a lot of issues get patched, especially the one which caused my Xbox to shut down whenever I tried fast travelling.

@MaccaMUFC well in that case it's definitely the game doing it then so i wouldn't play it anymore

i wonder if this is an issue others are having?