Topic: Official Push Square Xbox Thread

@LtSarage May I ask if you are ”new” to Xbox? Or have you been on the platform for a long time? Hm I thought that you was mostly on playstation before:)

@oliverp I've been playing on Xbox since 2010 during the 360 days. I actually started playing on Xbox before PlayStation. You're right though that I mostly play on PlayStation nowadays.

@LtSarge if Fable doesn't come out this year and they move to having even more games come to PS (the ones I bought an Xbox thinking I'd eventually need it to play them) then it might be time to bin my series X already 😅

It went from "the future is bright" with the summer showcase to "the future is publishing on PS" a few months later 🙈

My xbox gaming has amounted to a grand total of Indiana Jones and half of Starfield. Anything else I've played on it just happened to be on game pass/Ea Play at the time.

Buying Bethesda/Zeni, a massive publisher arm, and then deciding to not publish those games much beyond Game Pass and cut the console sales reach of the games by well over half also seems like sheer lunacy. And it has hurt their smaller studios, who also weren't able to sell the games on PS at the time they were getting hype on Game Pass. I genuinely don't know how Phil managed to do it, and how they haven't thrown him under the bus yet. The suits clearly hate the gambles he made. And it hasn't really helped the average gamer, either.

And I've always said a dev like Bethesda need game sales as they can't just fund The Elder Scrolls 6 out of thin air. They need to actually budget for it, and they probably won't have as big an allowance now than they would have had if Starfield had launched on PS5 as well. Despite it not quite being the game people wanted, it would have still sold millions upon millions on PS 🤦‍♂️

@LtSarge iirc post-ps4/early 9th gen you went pretty much all in on Xbox/Gamepass too right?

@Ravix Sorry to hear that you bought an Xbox for that reason. I'm still keeping mine to use as a Game Pass machine (still nice to play day one releases for under €20) and to play older games. But yeah, it's really sucks that Microsoft went this route.

I mean, Microsoft could've just continued having those games release on other systems but with the key difference being that they would've also been added to Game Pass over time. They really didn't think that one through.

@colonelkilgore Yup, that's right. Back in 2020, I thought I'd do fine with just subscribing to Game Pass and playing next-gen games on my Xbox One through cloud streaming, which sounded fantastic on paper. Why buy the next console when you can just keep playing new games on the one you already own? But then I tried out cloud streaming on Xbox and it sucked. So I decided to get a Series X in 2022 I believe because it was cheaper than PS5 and I could play day one games on Game Pass. But I barely used my Series X for the remainder of the year lol. That was the year games like God of War: Ragnarok came out so I ended up playing more on my PS4 thanks to those titles being cross-gen. And that's when I realised that PlayStation was my preferred platform and I bought a PS5 back in 2023.

If I could go back now, I would've just bought a PS5 instead of a Series X. I bet on the wrong horse this generation.

@LtSarge to be fair, Microsoft’s Xbox/gamepass consumer-friendly sales pitch was a strong one (given their predicament)… and I’m surprised more people didn’t make the same bet that you did.

Ultimately though… Phil explained it himself during that kindafunny interview, that they lost heavily during the 8th gen when gamers were building their digital libraries and profiles and it was always gonna be an uphill task. And while people do generally have short memories, the constant mantra of wait til next e3/i’m more excited about what we didn’t show, which almost always went unfulfilled… eventually worked against Xbox by way of the boy who cried wolf.

They were in such a strong position early to mid 360… and then they just stopped delivering games. That stretch from 2010-2024 was a veritable drought and that is why the most important generation was lost as Phil put it. Shame too, as if they had the emphasis on games back then, that they seem to have now it all would’ve probably been very different.

@LtSarge I'm not really bothered about it, I just find it funny that when they finally convinced me after years that there would finally be enough Xbox games coming out I'd at least be interested in, that they changed their whole business so they'd most likely come to PS anyway 😂

I've still got great value out of it, but I do also kind of question the value compared to the health of the games industry, and I'd rather support developers, and only use subs as a supplement to games I'm buying.

But if they want to give out their games day one for peanuts, that's up to them. Hopefully PS sales are enough to keep their studios afloat. But it wasn't the case for Tango, unfortunately.

I have a theory about the next Xbox console with Microsoft say they are making. First lets add up what we know for sure:

1) They have said it'll be the biggest leap ever in tech terms
2) They are putting their games on PS5/Switch 2 as well
3) Sales for Xbox hardware has fallen off a cliff
4) Some 3rd parties (like Capcom) are starting to skip releasing Xbox versions of games because of the low sales numbers.
and
5) A rather long point, but important. Sony/Nintendo/Xbox sell their consoles at a loss or break even because they make the money back on game sales. This is the current business model and why consoles are cheap to buy considering the bill of materials to make them.

If Microsoft release yet another console, same sort of Spec as PS5 Pro/PS6 we know its going to bomb hard, and I'm sure Microsoft know this.

I really doubt a handheld device is really a viable business for Microsoft. If they can't get people to buy their home console, why would someone buy their handheld over a Switch 2 or Steamdeck? Also it's worth noting that even the Steamdeck has only sold around 5 million units.

So what market if left for Xbox to sell in?

I think if they are smart they will create a new market; a premium console market.
They could create a very high powered box and sell for around $1000-$1200.
Now clearly this is not a mass market device, but they have alread failed in that market so why try again?

No, I think the only viable business Xbox hardware can be in is a premium market. A high powered box, that gives users access to Gamepass, but also Steam.
Hopefully they could cut some sort of deal with Valve, to get an "Xbox certified" tag added to Steam games much in the same way you have "Steam Deck certified".

This way, they can make a profit on the hardware sold rather than on games, because lets face it, they are not making money on Xbox games.

@dodgykebaab I do want a premium console like this, but i'd rather Sony or Valve do it. Game Pass games, on the whole aren't the same quality as the first party Sony and Third Party multiplatform releases and therefore aren't as scalable.

It's games like KCD2 the next Witcher and Cyberpunk etc that will benefit from a PC style console as those are games made with high end PC as a priority.

It will be interesting to see what they do. At this point they will have to release a console with unimaginable potential but also ridiculously cheap to sell them to anyone, it feels like. And the longer it takes, the further third party will drift from Xbox with delayed releases and less effort for the platform.

@dodgykebaab https://www.vg247.com/xbox-phil-spencer-consoles-comment-mayb...

@graymamba Yeah because Phil has never gone back on things he said.

Oh no, wait he's done that a lot!:

https://www.pcgamesn.com/gears-of-war/phil-spencer-says-not-e...

@dodgykebaab okay… but he literally discussed his negative perspective on a $1000+ console a little over a month ago and the next Xbox was apparently greenlit around two weeks ago. Logic would dictate the information I provided would have a bearing on that 🤷‍♂️

@graymamba This is true.

To be honest, my post here is only a theory based upon what would actually generate profit for Microsoft; and they have a history of releasing hardware everyone else could see would bomb from miles away.

I just don't see what the business plan would be for making a normal console or even a handheld. I just can't see them making their market bigger.

@dodgykebaab I can’t see the business sense in them releasing any type of new console in the current climate tbh. All of the various theories doing the rounds are flawed imho (the handheld, the Xbox that offers steam, the reference-design for third party manufacturers etc.). In all honestly, your idea seems the most realistic out of all of them for me but it’s just Phil’s recent statement on the matter that makes me think it’s a no-go.

With Microsoft seemingly becoming more third-party by the day, together with the direction that the industry is going… I honestly can’t see any reason why they should make any type of hardware passed the series’.

Wow Xbox is really killing it with Game Pass so far this year. South of Midnight is such a creative experience and Oblivion is an absolute blast. I haven't even checked out Avowed or Atomfall yet and Clair Obscur is coming out later this week. Not to mention the new DOOM game that's coming out in a couple of weeks. I might just stay subbed for the next couple of months just to play through these games.

Going back to Oblivion, I'm really glad I never played the original as the remake looks and runs so well. I played it for two hours and had no idea so much time had passed! This game might become my new open world addiction.

I guess it’s finally arrived…
When I turned on my LG TV yesterday it showed a pop-up message that I now have access to play Xbox games directly on my TV by subscribing to GamePass Ultimate.

The grand vision of Xbox is finally crystallizing. No console necessary, no game purchases necessary, just stream directly to the TV by logging into the app with your GamePass login.

As someone who has had almost zero interest in most of what Xbox has been doing the last 15 years, I have to admit I’m slightly curious now. First, like Sarge mentioned, there’s finally a number of games stacked up on the service that I actually have interest in. I was perfectly content to just buy these games (Clair Obscur, Indiana Jones, etc) but now I’m realizing that I basically have an Xbox in my house for the first time in my life (virtually speaking, through the app on my TV) and so I have to at least consider whether it’s something worth subscribing to and trying out. Honestly, I can’t see myself doing it — I have a lifetime of games to play already in my PlayStation library, but there is this tiny temptation to consider dipping my toe into the Xbox ecosystem since the obstacle of dropping $500 for a console is now gone.

The PlayStation cloud streaming has worked quite well for me when I’ve used it (primarily on my Portal), so I suspect the Xbox cloud streaming likewise works well. My TV is only a couple years old so I guess it has the horsepower needed to run the app well. What I don’t know is how the controller issue works. If I have to buy an Xbox controller then forget it. That’s enough of a hurdle to just forget about it. I doubt the DualSense or DualShock 4 controllers work with this TV streaming stuff.

Has anyone actually tried gaming through the Xbox app on their TV?

@Th3solution Gamepass has been on my TV since I bought it about 18 months ago. It allowed me to pair a DualSense, but I did have pair it back with the ps5 when I next wanted to use it with the console.

I've not actually used the controller with anything with the TV, so can't comment on if there was any latency issues etc.

I've enough games to keep entertained without adding another subscription service into the mix.

@JohnnyShoulder Ah, I guess LG are late to the party.

I’m in agreement — I’m flush with gaming options already on just my PS5. The advantage would be just to get select titles that I don’t already have and want to try. It might be a good way to demo some games to decide whether to buy them for my proper game library. Also, there’s still a few games that have yet to port over that I do want to play, namely Hellblade 2 and maybe Gears of War. Still, I don’t think it’s worth the effort and the $20 for one month of access. It’s good to hear that I could just sync my DualSense or DS4 though, instead of buying a controller. I’ve also had access to Netflix gaming for many months and have never felt inclined to try it either. And I almost never play any games on my phone. The dedicated TV app thing seems the closest to an actual console experience though, so I do wonder how it feels to play.

@Th3solution I also have an LG TV, so I decided to try out the Xbox app. Like @JohnnyShoulder mentioned, you can use a DualSense but you can also pair a DualShock 4 or Switch Pro controller.

I tried out four games on there: South of Midnight, Forza Horizon 5, Oblivion and Halo Infinite. All games felt responsive and there wasn't any noticeable input latency. South of Midnight didn't look as good as on my Xbox, while Forza looked great and ran smooth. Oblivion on the other hand felt really choppy to play, while Halo both looked and ran great.

I wanted to test it out just to see if cloud streaming is better on the TV compared to on my Xbox, which it is. For some reason, my internet speed constantly fluctuates on my Xbox. I have 500 mbps download speed and a lot of times it's 200 mbps when I download a game and sometimes it's 100 mbps. It rarely gets close to 500 mbps. However, the tradeoffs in visuals and performance are not something I'm willing to accept, even if I have to wait to download games.

But I do have to say that the Xbox app is highly accessible for people who don't own an Xbox. You can use existing controllers that you own and the streaming quality is good. The only thing you need is a Game Pass Ultimate subscription.

The main advantages of using the Xbox app and subscribing to GPU is that you get to play first-party titles and select third-party titles (like Clair Obscur) on day one as well as not needing to pay full price for these games. Instead of paying for one Xbox first-party game on PlayStation (such as Indiana Jones), you can play 3-4 first-party games on Xbox. Granted, you probably won't have time to play 3-4 of these games in one month, but you can definitely play two of them in one month (for example Indiana Jones and South of Midnight). Even playing four games during two months is cheaper than buying one full-priced game. So if you're genuinely interested in these games, I really don't see why you wouldn't want to give it a shot at €20. Variety is the spice of life after all. I've been playing so much on my PS5 these past few months that I've missed playing Xbox games.

Take this how you will, but I'm really grateful Gamepass let me experience Expedition 33, rather than having to pay the box price (even if the box price isn't a full triple A entry fee, regardless). I say this, because I think the combat in Expedition 33... has some problems, let us say. I wouldn't have stuck around with this if my money was on the line, I would have just got a refund. That is how negative I felt about the combat on my first tastes. But because it is on GP, I keep going just that little bit extra.

In doing so, I think this game really raises wider questions around what a game needs to get "right" to be considered a great game to you personally, to the industry at wide, whatever. At around 6ish hours in, the presentation, the performances, the music, the writing, like every element in that regard is basically all a 10 / 10 for me. I want to love this game so badly.

But then I die to a random set of trash enemies on the world map, because for some reason they decided to include these real time Souls elements in an otherwise turn based JRPG, with absolutely zero accessibility considerations like audio or visual cues, settings to make the windows more forgiving, whatever. Whenever I am on a high with this game, combat crashes me back down to Earth. Every time.

I want to keep playing, because I love everything else about the game. But can you really tell people you are loving a game, if playing it is the worst part about it?