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Topic: Nintendo Switch --OT--

Posts 6,361 to 6,380 of 6,551

nessisonett

@RR529 Because it’s entirely unnecessary to the game. Something like Senran Kagura needs the fanservice to not be a largely mediocre beat-em-up. Xenoblade has a largely interesting story but gets bogged down by anime tropes, laughable voice acting and bizarre panning over characters’ chests. Doesn’t help that in Xenoblade X, half the characters were explicitly underage in the Japanese version. Or the fact they get around kiddie porn rules by saying that oh no, actually this character is like 400 years old, they just look like a child for totally not pedophilic reasons in the slightest.

Edited on by antdickens

Socks before or after trousers, but never socks before pants, that's the rule. Makes a man look scary, like a chicken.

Black Lives Matter. Enough is enough.

Ralizah

@RR529 It's Nintendo Life's version of PvP. In this case, prudes vs perverts.

I dunno if you were around when the Senran Kagura series was still primarily associated with the 3DS, but articles about those games would attract hundreds of comments.

If nothing else, NL's writers has been doing better about not sermonizing about the evils of cartoon boobs, which I appreciate.

And yes, the degree to which people act like XC2 is some sort of softcore porn game still baffles me a little. People act like slightly risque character designs haven't been a part of video games and anime culture for decades now.

Of course, the thing to remember is that probably 90% of people who play this game aren't losing their minds over an anime character having large breasts.

Edited on by Ralizah

Nintendo Switch FC: SW-2726-5961-1794

PSN: Ralizah

RR529

@nessisonett, did you reply to me? I have an email that says you did, however I'm not seeing your comment. This page says it should contain comments 6,361 (I'm assuming yours) & 6,362 (@Ralizah's), but only theirs is appearing. I checked & I don't have you accidentally blocked or anything.

@Ralizah, was definitely around when Senran Kagura first popped up, but I guess I don't remember the comment sections too much. I first really started to notice the arguments once first party Nintendo games started having some of this content featured (or "censored") like the Fire Emblem games & TMS, and the whole Xenoblade drama seems to be an extension of that.

Currently Playing:
Switch - Blade Strangers
PS4 - Kingdom Hearts III, Tetris Effect (VR)

nessisonett

@RR529 I’m gonna assume it’s due to the fact I referenced Japan’s questionable attitudes towards characters under 18 and it triggered some blocked word list. Bit weird it doesn’t just censor it. The gist is that hypersexualisation can work in certain contexts where it makes sense due to the plot but can be rather tacky in practice. Exactly the same as any other form of media, and the same as the way violence, drug taking etc is treated. Plus, more female perspectives are needed in these studios. If you’re going to have boobs, at least make sure they follow the rules of physics.

Socks before or after trousers, but never socks before pants, that's the rule. Makes a man look scary, like a chicken.

Black Lives Matter. Enough is enough.

Herculean

I don't think the criticism on the sexism in Xenoblade is less valid because there are other offenders.

The stuff in Xenoblade Chronicles isn't innocent fun. It deserves to be scrutinized article after article, however annoying that might be to fans of the series.

Herculean

Ralizah

@RR529 Nintendo was going nuts with the "localization" of their games for a while. The removal of an entire gameplay feature in FE Fates still boggles my mind, considering it wasn't even sexualized. But they left in the imouto character you could hook up with and the Fire Emblem equivalent of Jessica Rabbit, lol.

The Xenoblade thing will calm down when people play the new one and realize there aren't any nopons with maid fetishes or short-skirted tsundere waifus in this entry.

Nintendo Switch FC: SW-2726-5961-1794

PSN: Ralizah

RR529

@nessisonett, @Herculean, just to play devil's advocate.

1. Is having a tacky amount of sexualization inherently a bad thing? Sure, it might make a number of people roll their eyes and limit a product's reach to a specific audience, but if that's how a developer wants to make their game than so what.

2. Why is it important that (video game) boobs behave realistically (same for armor designs)? Again, sure there might be a great many people that think it's tacky/gross, but where do we draw the line and say it's okay for certain aspects of reality to be broken for the sake of fiction, but not others?

3. How are the character designs in Xenoblade not "innocent"? I think it's a pretty steep hill to climb to claim that they have any sort of real world consequences (much less actually induce any real world harm). At most maybe they could affect the general populaces' perception of gaming/gamers, but as Xenoblade is such a niche title (and since the biggest games with the attention of the mass market are more & more inclusive) I hardly think it moves the needle in the grand scheme of things.

Edited on by RR529

Currently Playing:
Switch - Blade Strangers
PS4 - Kingdom Hearts III, Tetris Effect (VR)

nessisonett

@RR529 Well to put it another way, nobody’s stopping them making these games, far from it. That does open them up to criticism however. There’s a really weird trend going about on all sides where people are confusing criticism with an attempt to ‘cancel’ something or stop it from being made. Whenever you put anything out there into the aether, whether that’s a joke, a song, a game, a movie, whatever, there’s a certain level of scrutiny that you’re opening yourself up to.

In terms of the harm Xenoblade does specifically, it’s more a symptom of a wider problem. My uni course being in software engineering means that it’s about 90% male nerds. Seeing first hand the dreadful, horrible way that almost all of them talk about women both generally and specifically about the few women on the course, it clearly comes from somewhere. The way that female characters are frequently oversexualised in traditional ‘nerdy’ media creates a culture in which women are objectified and reduced to their base sexual components. While yes, some women do encourage this and own their sexuality which is absolutely their right, that’s a conscious decision on their part. Women being objectified without any consent is still a major problem in society and the way that some video game characters are basically being designed by men as sex dolls only serves to reinforce that. So it’s more of a problem with the entire wider community and culture, which these games contribute to.

Socks before or after trousers, but never socks before pants, that's the rule. Makes a man look scary, like a chicken.

Black Lives Matter. Enough is enough.

Herculean

I guess you could also ask whether me making racist jokes at work should be considered a problem at all, seeing as my reach is even smaller than Xenoblade.

Herculean

Herculean

I get what you mean by how it's just some innocent fun. However, when you take all JRPGs and how women are portrayed in them, it does paint a picture of a world in which women are often objectified and sexualized.

That pattern is the problem, not necessarily one game on its own. But to change that pattern, a lot of game developers do need to change the way they portray women.

Does that necessarily have to be Xenoblade Chronicles? No, not at all. But as long as they're not changing and the industry is not changing, they are contributing to the perception of women as objects of lust, whether they want to or not.

Herculean

johncalmc

For what it's worth I hate the character designs in Xenoblade 2 and presumably 3 from the only image I've seen of it. The first Xenoblade is one of my favourite ever games - like legit top twenty - but as soon as I saw the characters from 2 I was like oh no, not like this. I don't know if that's why I've never bothered playing it even though I love love love the first one. Probably not. Although I do judge the game for turning into boobland after the relatively normal first game. Straight away I think less of it, and take it less seriously.

I am going to play 2 though at some point because I really did love the first one. Maybe the anime hijinks won't be as cringe as it looks.

johncalmc

Twitter:

kyleforrester87

Love the character designs in XBC2. Yeah lots of them have comedy cans but I didn’t think it was a big deal until I started seeing all the commentary online. Fortunately I know it’s a fantasy world. Happy if they tone them down too. Basically I just don’t mind either way. XBC2 was great!

Edited on by kyleforrester87

kyleforrester87

PSN: WigSplitter1987

Haruki_NLI

The only Xnoeblade game I've enjoyed was X. Tried Definitive, just don't have the time, tried 2, the gameplay and absolutely mind boggling slow start put me off. 10 hours and you're still not going anywhere? No thanks.

Fair to say I'm a bit of an outlier for this series. Favourite one is the game that has nothing to do with anything.

Now Playing: Ratchet and Clank: Rift Apart, Crash Bandicoot 4

Now Streaming: Sonic Lost World, Just Cause 3

NLI Discord: https://bit.ly/2IoFIvj

Twitch: https://bit.ly/2wcA7E4

RR529

Just put in an order for Mario Golf: Super Rush.

I'm not yet done with Senran Kagura Burst Re:Newal on PC (so I guess you can definitely tell my stance on the whole XC debate, lol), but I just couldn't get how good a time I had with Kirby out of my mind and so I'm still in a Nintendo mood, so hopefully Mario Golf can keep the good times rolling.

Currently Playing:
Switch - Blade Strangers
PS4 - Kingdom Hearts III, Tetris Effect (VR)

Ralizah

nessisonett wrote:

In terms of the harm Xenoblade does specifically, it’s more a symptom of a wider problem. My uni course being in software engineering means that it’s about 90% male nerds. Seeing first hand the dreadful, horrible way that almost all of them talk about women both generally and specifically about the few women on the course, it clearly comes from somewhere. The way that female characters are frequently oversexualised in traditional ‘nerdy’ media creates a culture in which women are objectified and reduced to their base sexual components.

People aren't being turned into misogynists by sexualized depictions of women in the media they consume. It may or may not (has there even been any reliable research on this?) reinforce tendencies that are already in the person to begin with, but even if you drain the sex appeal out of every fictional woman out there, those computer science students you mentioned aren't going to treat real women any better than they would have otherwise. I fail to see how this isn't just a re-packaging of the rhetoric from the 80s and 90s about how violent media was programming people to become aggressive.

Edited on by Ralizah

Nintendo Switch FC: SW-2726-5961-1794

PSN: Ralizah

kyleforrester87

@Ralizah “I fail to see how this isn't just a re-packaging of the rhetoric from the 80s and 90s about how violent media was programming people to become aggressive” it is literally that. Overly sexualised characters in games are arguably dumb but I don’t see how it can be considered dangerous, providing you’re the right age to view such material. And if you’re that way inclined there are countless more effective ways to get your kicks.

Edited on by kyleforrester87

kyleforrester87

PSN: WigSplitter1987

nessisonett

@Ralizah The difference between sexist attitudes being reinforced through media and the violent video games attitudes is that one is fundamentally more subliminal than the other. Just watch an older episode of Friends and you’ll cringe at some of the lines which reflect a society in which it was perfectly OK to say those things. So people see these things being put in shows, movies, games etc and played for laughs and it washes over them, reinforcing the attitudes and creating an environment where it’s seen to be acceptable. This is especially obvious in school playgrounds, I was in high school during the meme boom of the last decade and it was really obvious to see the links between current trends and social attitudes. We had one black girl in our year and each time a racist meme surfaced, she bore the brunt. And with high school being a microcosm of society, if a couple people made racist comments, their friends joined in and now there’s a group of people laughing and soaking it up. People don’t really grow out of that. Look at cases of workplace harassment where a toxic culture is created with people joining in, tolerating it etc in order to fit in. What starts out as a few laughs at someone else’s expense leads to Blizzard.

Something like Friends is of it’s time, which is perfectly alright and we can look back and understand that, but a show released in this day and age would either explicitly make clear that such behaviour is wrong or the character would face some kind of consequences. Like how It’s Always Sunny gets away with pushing boundaries as it’s always shown that the gang are in the wrong. The thing about violence in these things is that unless you’re quite literally insane or have incredibly bad role models, we’re bred from a very young age to know that dismembering people is A Bad Thing To Do. It’s not like there’s an episode of Seinfeld where he cuts up babies and eats them with gravy while the slap bass and laugh track plays.

Regardless of culture, whether you’re a boomer, Gen X or whatever, acts of violence are a red flag pretty much everywhere in the world. Sexism varies where you are. While obviously cultural hegemony isn’t the answer, there are certain standards. It’s not like I just write off stoning gay men to death as part of Bruneian culture. So like how Japan specifically has a weird obsession with sexualising schoolgirls (which is extremely rarely actually explored as predatory in media - of course that would be different due to being a nuanced exploration), they’re also still an incredibly male-driven society and their media reflects this. When this media is released in countries with a more equal society sex-wise, it’s subjected to scrutiny reflecting their own society. Nobody’s arguing for this stuff to be censored. It just impacts general reception due to differing standards.

Also important to note that context matters as well. Bayonetta might be a sexualised character but she’s written in a way that she owns her sexuality and it’s a conscious decision on her part. Whereas the reasons given for Quiet in Metal Gear Solid V’s sexualisation were paper-thin to the point of being transparent. It’s really a test of writing ability, first and foremost. It’s incredibly easy to tell the difference between a well-written and badly written femme fetale for example. It’s on designers too though. Armour with boob holes etc. Xenoblade may have decent plot elsewhere but come on, X had a 13 year old wearing an outfit with a crotch window and underboob. There’s no earthly reason for that.

Socks before or after trousers, but never socks before pants, that's the rule. Makes a man look scary, like a chicken.

Black Lives Matter. Enough is enough.

Octane

Ralizah wrote:

People aren't being turned into misogynists by sexualized depictions of women in the media they consume. It may or may not (has there even been any reliable research on this?) reinforce tendencies that are already in the person to begin with, but even if you drain the sex appeal out of every fictional woman out there, those computer science students you mentioned aren't going to treat real women any better than they would have otherwise. I fail to see how this isn't just a re-packaging of the rhetoric from the 80s and 90s about how violent media was programming people to become aggressive.

TBF, (unnecessary) violence in video games has its repercussions. You can't go around in a killing spree in GTA and expect nothing to happen. And even video games where there's no an explicit karma system, there's a clear downside to violence. Yes, there's nothing stopping you from killing all enemies in most video games, but those enemies can also use that same 'violence' to end your game.

But it's an interesting thought, if outside influences don't shape a person, do violent and/or sexist tendencies already exist from a young age? I don't think so. It's not the depicting of violence alone, but also the reinforcement that it is alright behaviour. Now I presume that real life events will more likely play a role in this than media, but still. For the 'sexist' appearance of characters in games, there are often no repercussions, they're just there.

Then again, I also don't understand why you'd want to be looking at underage teenage cartoon girls in any form of media. A friend of mine showed me some Xenoblade 2 gameplay and some of the character designs, and it was just cringy AF. And even my friend, as a big JRPG fan, found it to be awkward.

Octane

Ralizah

EDIT: On second thought, best not to turn this into the "Debate Sexism in Video Games" thread.

Edited on by Ralizah

Nintendo Switch FC: SW-2726-5961-1794

PSN: Ralizah

nessisonett

Nintendo Switch Sports is alright. Volleyball is the only real standout, none of the others really feel all that great to play, although i haven’t tried football as that uses 2 controllers so me and my brother can’t play it in 2 player. The framerate is surprisingly choppy at times as well. Genuinely confusing how much worse tennis feels than it did on the Wii. Actually, most of the games are a step down from Resort in terms of feel. I find myself longing for the table tennis in Resort which felt fantastic. There’s a significant lack of content too, as I don’t really care about online play as a sole selling point in 2022. Hopefully the other sports to come like Golf add a bit extra fun. I’d love to see stamps return from Resort too, they actually gave you something to work for. Also, any semblance of personality would be great, the game is a clinical fun vacuum.

Worth noting that while there are stamps, it’s not the same achievement system that was in place before.

Edited on by nessisonett

Socks before or after trousers, but never socks before pants, that's the rule. Makes a man look scary, like a chicken.

Black Lives Matter. Enough is enough.

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