Yes, you could say the same about some Sony games, too. Or Rockstar. Or plenty of studios. None of that has any bearing on Nintendo getting a free pass though.
I really liked Breath of the Wild but reading reviews for that game is comical. If it was an Xbox exclusive it would have gotten 8s.
@johncalmc The problem with that is you could apply that rhetoric to literally any well-received exclusive game, and it'd be impossible to falsify.
Considering the game was both a critical AND commercial sensation for the series (it has way outsold every other entry released to date, even taking re-releases into account), is it more likely that everyone in the world is giving a "free pass" to Nintendo, or that you just didn't happen to enjoy the game as much as most people did?
I feel like there are better and worse ways of critiquing a game, and alleging conspiracies (especially among the media) is usually one of the worst ways.
Currently Playing: Metroid Prime 4: Beyond (NS2); Corpse Factory (PC)
I think it's the former. But I wouldn't be surprised if Nintendo included a $100 bill and NDA form in every other copy of the game to bribe those Metacritic numbers.
@Ralizah I think you're blowing what I'm saying out of proportion a bit. I'm not suggesting there's a secret cabal controlling game reviews from the shadows to overrate Nintendo games. I'm saying that there's an inherent bias that exists within games criticism whereby reviewers looking at a game and wondering "Is it an 8 or a 9?" will fall on the high side for Nintendo more often than not where they might not for other studios. There's also a tendency to overlook the wrongdoing of Nintendo where another company like EA might get a tough time. They get a free pass, and this is far from a rogue opinion.
Sure, it was a critical and commercial success but that doesn't mean it's not overrated. Commercial success is irrelevant because by the time anybody realised they weren't fussed on the game they'd already bought it. Critical success is what we're talking about here.
I'm not saying it was a bad game at all. I liked it a lot. But I think it's massively overrated, and I think a lot of media got caught up in the hype of a new Zelda and perhaps didn't pick at the game as much as they should have. That's all.
Look at reviews for Skyward Sword and Twilight Princess (a 95 and 93) on Metacritic versus their perception today. I know both games have their fans - I like Twilight Princess for my sins - but even as science fiction both of those scores would be far fetched.
I think you're blowing what I'm saying out of proportion a bit. I'm not suggesting there's a secret cabal controlling game reviews from the shadows to overrate Nintendo games. I'm saying that there's an inherent bias that exists within games criticism whereby reviewers looking at a game and wondering "Is it an 8 or a 9?" will fall on the high side for Nintendo more often than not where they might not for other studios.
The evidence (metacritic review score averages per company, for example) suggests otherwise.
I don't disagree that Zelda games might suffer from some general score inflation because of critic bias, but that's something that happens with a ton of big IPs. Zelda, Mario, Uncharted, The Last of Us, God of War, Grand Theft Auto, etc. It's hardly exclusive to Nintendo.
Critics also have preferences which affect which games gain more attention than others in the press. Critics tend to show vast preferentialism for action-rpgs and third-person action-adventure games, for example, which causes a lot of truly excellent games in other genres to get less acclaim than they probably deserve. Games in niche genres are especially likely to be ignored, no matter how excellent they are.
Of course, the same exact thing happens with general audiences as well.
There's also a tendency to overlook the wrongdoing of Nintendo where another company like EA might get a tough time. They get a free pass, and this is far from a rogue opinion.
Hard disagree. The internet is awash with controversy about literally everything these days, and a lot of that is directed at Nintendo.
Some of it is probably justified. A lot of is trumped up, because people are addicted to outrage cycles.
Sure, it was a critical and commercial success but that doesn't mean it's not overrated. Commercial success is irrelevant because by the time anybody realised they weren't fussed on the game they'd already bought it. Critical success is what we're talking about here.
When a game is widely critically acclaimed, sells vastly better than previous entries in that same series for years on end, and is highly regarded by most of the people who play it, I do think you have to admit the game resonated with a lot of people. BotW isn't The Last of Us Part II, where it's unpopular with a large portion of the playerbase but receives wild acclaim from critics.
I'm not saying it was a bad game at all. I liked it a lot. But I think it's massively overrated, and I think a lot of media got caught up in the hype of a new Zelda and perhaps didn't pick at the game as much as they should have. That's all.
I don't disagree that the media probably didn't pick at the game as much as they probably should have. But "massively overrated" also doesn't feel right.
The truth about its quality probably lies somewhere between "it's the greatest game of all time!" and "it's a decent, 8/10 sorta game that was pushed by a biased media."
On a slightly more comical note, I have found the morph ball. Inside the lumberjack tree in A Link To The Past. Which requires me to beat Agahnim, which requires a light source, which I have no idea where it is. This is brilliant. The only check I have left is King Zora I think so probably need to grind rupees.
Well I just pre-ordered Pokémon Shining Pearl since it was very cheap at an online retailer and I had a discount code at that place, so I managed to get the game for only €37. Very interested to see how it's going to turn out. I don't like the chibi-look of the game but it's gen 4 and I grew up with that gen so I'm very excited to play it.
@LtSarge That’s my thought process too. I was going to get it just because nostalgia will get me through as it was my first generation if you discount Colosseum and XD. I’m annoyed that they’ve made EXP Share mandatory and affecting every Pokémon though cause I just know it’ll be easy to the point that it’s just boring to play. So I’ll probably not bother for now which is a real shame as I love the original.
@nessisonett Yeah I wasn't really that interested in getting it since I've been buying a lot of new Switch games lately such as Metroid Dread and Mario Party Superstars. But I know that I'll be getting the game eventually because I always buy the Pokémon games, so I thought I might as well just get it now.
I kinda don't mind the EXP share because that means I get to try out a bunch of Pokémon instead of sticking with one team for the entire game.
If the game uses the teams and more importantly, levels, from D/P and not Platinum, then the EXP Share will likely make sure you aren't getting to the Pokemon League around Lv50...when the Champion is in the mid 60s with a perfect IV and EV team.
Platinum actually made that level jump less pronounced by having more trainers to fight throughout the game, and lowering the level of the Champion to early 60s, late 50s.
So if it's Platinum levels, it'll likely be an issue. If it's Diamond and Pearl levels, you won't need to grind for a 10 levels to not get bodied.
Remember, SwSh had this EXP system too, and the levels at end game were mid to high 60s too, and you didn't end up overlevelled when fighting everyone.
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Now Streaming: The Legend of Zelda: Echoes of Wisdom
Sharing EXP between party members is standard for JRPGs, but difficulty options are also standard for them.
The mandatory EXP share is the biggest reason why I've not preordered Pokemon BD yet, as I wait to see what reviews and other people make of it.
Pokemon isn't known for its difficulty, but at least in older games I had to put some thought into type advantages and switching out injured pokemon. With Shield, I was overlevelled to the point of battles just being dull.
@Ralizah@Kidfried Yes, this sort of bias does exist for other franchises/manufacturers/studios - it's not just Nintendo. But I do think Nintendo benefits from it more than anyone else, because this bias is inherently born from nostalgia, and through virtue of the fact that Nintendo has been around longer than most they get the most benefit of the doubt.
Of the console manufacturers we have today, Nintendo get away with the most, and then Sony, and then Microsoft, and I don't think that can be ignored. Remember the launch of the Xbox One and how Xbox never recovered from that the entire generation? It's fun to imagine what would have happened if that had been a Nintendo console. People make excuses for their more nefarious or bone-headed decisions in a way that they don't go to bat for Microsoft. I'm not saying that's necessarily wrong - people have their favourites, and ultimately these are all massive corporations out to talk you out of your money - but that mentality goes hand in hand with what I'm saying.
Anyway, aside from a baked-in Zelda bias within the industry etc. etc. I do sympathise with others in the thread who have expressed boredom or disappointment with BOTW. I actually didn't find it boring or really disappointing. I enjoyed it a lot, but I do understand the complaints, because I think there's a bunch of pretty serious flaws with the game and when you have everyone shouting on about how it's a revolutionary new game or how it's this greatest of all time title you gotta play, I can see why some would play it and then feel let down.
Hi guys
Please forgive the basic question, but I have always been Playstation and Xbox, although I did get a Wii back in the day.
To this end, I have never played a Zelda game but have obviously read the reviews etc and realise that I have missed out on possibly some of the best games ever made.
My question is, if I were to buy a Switch, would I be able to play them all? Is there backwards compatability available, and if so, I take it the switch is my best (only?) option?
@Caveman49 If you get a Switch, and sign up to the Nintendo Online thing, and the online expansion thing, you can play the original Zelda, II, Link To The Past, and Ocarina of Time - all the original games emulated on Switch. The next one is Majoras Mask which isn't on Switch, but will be at some point through the online expansion thing. There's the Link's Awakening Remake you can buy, and then Skyward Sword Remaster to buy too, and then Breath of the Wild. So you're missing Twilight Princess in there and Wind Waker too, but presumably both will end up on Switch eventually.
@Keith_Zissou Honestly if you have a Switch I would consider the Pro Controller to be an essential purchase. I couldn't imagine not using it to play things like Odyssey, BOTW, etc. The Joy Cons are beyond hopeless, and my one and only attempt at playing Breath of the Wild with them ended after like eight seconds.
The only times the Joy Cons haven't caused me serious upset have been when playing slower games like Fire Emblem or Mario + Rabbids. Anything that requires precise controls and they're just not up to the task.
No, I mean, a console that was perceived as being incredibly anti-consumer because of all the always online stuff etc. I wonder if Nintendo would have gotten away with it because they generally get more good will. Like, if Sony did it today, I think they'd get away with it, but they wouldn't back in 2013.
The Wii U concept was a total, unmitigated failure, lol. Even Nintendo didn't know what to do with that GamePad half the time. It really speaks volumes when the most popular feature of it was using it to play games off the TV, like, five feet away, because if you got too far the signal dropped.
Still a little sour that we never got an Etrian Odyssey game on it, though. That's the one home console where that series would still make sense and not have to be neutered in the transition process.
Although I disagree it "never had a chance." With a price cut, better marketing, etc. it probably wouldn't have belly-flopped quite as spectacularly as it did. Although I also think there's something to be learned about not launching a Nintendo console with NSMB as well.
@johncalmc Most people aren't fixated on a console being "anti-consumer" or not if they're getting the games they want out of it. That's why the endless drama around Sony and Nintendo doesn't seem to faze them one bit.
Microsoft's problem with the Bone was multi-fold:
It was weaker than PS4 at launch and cost $100 more
Always-online is about as intrusive a gimmick as you can get. I know they backtracked, but the stench of those plans stuck to the console pretty much permanently.
"TV, Sports, Call of Duty" - that reveal presentation really was disastrous
They never sprang back with killer first-party games. While price cuts definitely came into play, what really motivated people to pick up the flagging PS3 and 3DS consoles were their popular first-party games. Microsoft's first-party output last gen was the worst I've ever seen from a major manufacturer, frankly.
And the thing still managed to outsell the Wii U by tens of millions of units.
Because Nintendo, of all the companies, is the least likely to be able to coast to success from generation to generation.
RE: BotW, I would say it has a few undeniable flaws and a LOT of marmite game design choices that motivate the "best game ever or boring?" debate online. Although that also feeds into why I like it so much.
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