@RogerRoger Switch button controls are customisable on an OS Level actually. That may alleviate some of the issues.
As for the issues, this is a more impressive job than 3D All Stars on a technical level. AI upscaling for textures, remade character models, new camera system (which would probably break the game if done quickly), new controls (which honestly are the best they can do translating something like this to a controller), doubled the frame rate, quadrupled the resolution, complete remade the UI and menus, reprogrammed how NPCs work and interact with Link...
It's kinda wild how Tantalus managed to effectively break down and rebuild Skyward Sword at a base design level while not screwing up everything around it. Although I imagine it initially did in testing.
Shame you can't enjoy the game. I bought it myself over Mario Golf, because multiplayer as a concept is basically dead to me, but I did so knowing I've got a 4 mile backlog and I hate traditional 3D Zelda titles. So I'm hardly a good judge of finances. 🤣
Maybe the next Switch exclusive will be more appropriate: No More Heroes 3. Wait, no, motion controls. Aight then.
WarioWare? Maybe? If that's your kinda thing?
Now Playing: Mario & Luigi Brothership, Sonic x Shadow Generations
Now Streaming: The Legend of Zelda: Echoes of Wisdom
@RogerRoger Thanks for the tag, although no apology was necessary. How far did you get into the game, and were you using motion controls or traditional controls? With the motion controls I've found that the pointer needs to be reset very frequently with a press of the Y button, much more than was necessary in the original release. This also needs doing when the sword is misaligned, which was not the case with the Wii version. I haven't tried the traditional controls yet. Zelda's not particularly your thing anyway, and I recall you really not liking Link's Awakening when you reviewed it, so I think it's okay to move on and play something else. Was your partner able to get any sort of refund?
I've played the original quite a few times, with my most recent playthrough last year, so my memories are quite fresh. My review of the Wii one is quite long, so I'll try to keep the Switch update a lot shorter. I'm currently in the third dungeon, which is one of my favourites. I like how clean the game looks compared to the original, and the increased framerate is really nice, drops notwithstanding.
@mookysam well my gold wiimote hasn't flaked, I could never get used to those rubber condom things! I did put one on if a friend was playing with it though. You know, I don't trust people 😅. Also they have greasy hands lol
I was just showing off my Zelda CDs to Rog in the MGS thread as we were discussing music. I'll post the pic here too (hopefully it don't make you too jealous if you are missing some! 😅)
The Melodies of Time one came with an old Nintendo magazine!
I'm glad the remaster is holding up well for you! I'm hoping to get some time to actually play it next week so I will probably read your review(s) after that. Just so I'm not too influenced by them as I play.
@RogerRoger I feel like this rerelease was necessary tbh. On one hand it'll be a little clunkier than the original just because without a sensor bar, losing track of gyro is a guarantee.
On the other hand, it's the worst selling 3D Zelda despite the system it's on. Not even 4 million copies. I wouldn't be shocked if it sticks around knowing that.
Now Playing: Mario & Luigi Brothership, Sonic x Shadow Generations
Now Streaming: The Legend of Zelda: Echoes of Wisdom
@Haruki_NLI Skyward Sword didn't use the sensor bar. It's one of those games that uses the gyro exclusively (you had to have the Wiimote gyro expansion, or a Wiimote Plus). That's why you have the option to calibrate it during playing.
You van place the sensor bar out of sight during SS and it plays just fine (at least, for gyro Wii standards, which was a little clunkier than the Switch' gyro).
@Octane This is more for recalibrating the pointer. An issue Mario Galaxy has on Switch as well.
I do find it kinda obvious now how the idea of designing for a console specifically has led to issues modernising games. Of course, that level of foresight isnt exactly expected either.
Probably how Xbox manages it so well. The controller hasnt changed much in 20 years. On Nintendo systems, sacrifices will have to be made, and with stuff like Mario Maker, Skyward Sword, any Wii game really, Gamecube stuff...they were unfortunately made with the controllers, and sometimes system specs, in mind, so moving them over ends up just causing issues with clunkiness and the such.
Lose lose situation.
Now Playing: Mario & Luigi Brothership, Sonic x Shadow Generations
Now Streaming: The Legend of Zelda: Echoes of Wisdom
@Haruki_NLI No, the calibration was for the gyro, not the pointer. You can remove the sensor bar while playing Skyward Sword, and the game plays like it should. The sensor bar is only needed for games with pointer controls, but most of the late Wii games only used the gyroscope. And you need it for the Wii menu etc., but the game itself doesn't use it.
Mario Galaxy did use the pointer controls (obv), so the sensor bar was necessary. If you remove the sensor bar, you lose the pointer controls.
It would've been a good idea to use the sensor bar as an automatic calibration for the gyro, and to this day I still don't know why they didn't do this, but alas.
@RogerRoger Skyward HD is about in line with what Zelda remasters tend to be. With that said, some games benefit more from them than others. Twilight Princess HD wasn't really necessary for anyone who already owned the original, whereas the 3DS remasters of the N64 Zelda games dramatically improved the poor framerate, resolution, texture work, etc. of the originals, so they felt much more impressive. Basically, I think the more primitive entries benefit the most from being remastered.
Skyward is a weird case, since the need to work around the motion controls was always going to make button controls less than ideal. The improved camera and doubled framerate are pretty big improvements, though.
With that said, I bought the original on my Wii U for $10, so this'll be the first of the remasters that I miss out on.
@Ralizah I'd possibly argue (but not passionately as I know people will see this differently) that OoT 3D and MM 3D were full blown remakes because they significantly change all the graphics and stuff, same with the Crash Bandicoot N. Sane Trilogy.
I'd say a remaster like TP HD, WW HD and now SS HD is a quick lick of paint from a resolution bump and higher FPS, maybe a QoL change here and there. So not as different from the original anyway.
Like in a film, you can remaster it but it's the same image but crisper, same sound but newly mastered tracks, possibly a bit of CGI and an extra scene or two. Where as a remake would be a new film that could be as different or as similar to the original as it wanted to be. I'd probably liken the 3DS Zeldas (and the N. sane Trilogy) to a shot for shot remake more or less.
I think this the thread where people discuss Shin Megami Tensai... I know nothing about the games but I saw a recent article on NL that mentioned it had a school setting and featured this image:
There is an old (1968) film by Lindsay Anderson starring Malcolm McDowell called "If..." That was set in a school and had more or less the same logo. I'm wondering if there is any link.
It seems like a random film but I don't think it is massively obscure even if it isn't as widely available these days. But yeah it's got to have some influence on the game/series because the similarity in logo/setting is too great for it to be a coincidence.
Like I say, I know nothing about the games at all but the film is pretty good and I'd recommend giving it (and it's two spiritual/pseudo/quasi sequels) a watch!
I’ve been playing Sunshine again with the true actually good controls with my Cube controller on the Switch. I forgot the controls were inverted though. Which is an absolute pain because it’s one of my favourite games and one I’ve played over and over again, meaning the original inverted controls are deeply ingrained. Just have an option for the love of god.
@Kidfried@Ralizah it's so weird. I'd love for some press with an awareness of the link to interview someone at Atlas and find out what the deal is!
I am more aware of Persona but I still know as much about it as I do SMT. I know it's set in a school and has a character called Joker. My friend loves the series though
I think that's a good thing, it seems like one of those series that people talk about how much they love it but not necessarily why they love it. So if I was to pick one up one day, it would be a completely fresh experience!
@ralphdibny Cheers, and yeah, Club Nintendo was great. One of my favourite things was the Mario Galaxy soundtrack, and I'm quite fond of my little Year of Luigi coin. Back when it was Nintendo VIP 24:7 they had quite a few really good items over the years, and unlike now points didn't expire!
@RogerRoger Yeah, given how the original game is designed around motion controls, the control translation is about as good as it can be. I was very impressed with the gyroscopic aiming in Mario Galaxy's recent remaster, but appreciate that it is a lot of work to adapt one very deeply integrated control scheme to a completely alien method.
The 3DS remakes of the N64 games are brilliant, and you never know, a remaster of a remake could one day be on the horizon! The design of Ocarina has aged particularly brilliantly. Aside from the visuals and menu interface, very little was done to change the bones of the game itself, but the performance boost really modernises it. Majora's Mask 3D has more extensive changes. Most are welcome, although I found changes to the structure of certain sequences a little confusing, because I was so used to the original game! The changes to how Link swims when he transforms into a Zora is bizarrely worse. Twilight Princess remains my favourite Zelda game, but as I've said before I think Wind Waker might be more up your alley, given it feels like more of an outlier and is very whimsical.
@Kidfried Ugh, inverted camera controls are the work of the devil himself! Why would Nintendo be so cruel?😂
@RogerRoger I don't think we'll see the 3DS remasters on Switch, but I would be surprised if the Wii U remasters of The Wind Waker and Twilight Princess were never ported.
@ralphdibny I believe OoT3D uses a lot of the same source code as the original. Also, I was reading the wikipedia article, and the wording on there seems to back up that idea as well.
The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time 3D was developed by Grezzo. According to Grezzo's Shun Moriya, some of the original game's bugs were intentionally untouched in the 3DS version, because they were so committed to deliver Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time to 3DS just the way fans remembered. "As programmers, we wanted to get rid of bugs, but the staff members who had played the old game said the bugs were fun. It wouldn't be fun if your friends couldn't say, 'Do you know about this?' So we left them in if they didn't cause any trouble and were beneficial. If something simply could not be allowed to stand, we begrudgingly fixed it, so some bugs don't appear. But we left in as many as we could, so people will grin over that," explained Moriya.
So, remaster. Although remasters can still look wildly improved from the original. For example, I'm pretty sure, despite the massive facelift it received, Xenoblade Chronicles: Definitive Edition is also a remaster.
Currently Playing: Metroid Prime 4: Beyond (NS2); Corpse Factory (PC)
@Ralizah that's fair enough, I think I will disagree but that's OK! I think the definitions of these words (or lack thereof) get muddied by different interpretations as well as marketing-speak by companies. I feel like OoT is significantly different enough in a few different ways for me to class it as a remake but I don't expect everyone to agree with me on that. I think the only thing that I definitely wouldn't class it as, is a reboot!!
It might just be because I'm coming at it from a film perspective though. If they replaced all the "graphics" in a film by recasting the actors or replacing them completely with CGI or animation then I wouldn't call it a remaster even if they used the same script.
Not sure about xenoblade really, I haven't played it so I couldn't form an opinion on it. I did have a quick look at screenshot comparisons and they do look quite different between versions. Hmm, not sure!
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