Topic: Nintendo Switch --OT--

@mookysam I also like that MercurySteam's Metroid games feel different enough to have their own identity. I immediately knew who the developer was when I saw the free aiming, counter move, and action focus in the trailer. Like Samus Returns, it'll probably have a larger focus on dynamic setpieces than previous games in the series.

Enjoy Days of Ruin. It's one of the best tactics games ever made. And the soundtrack still slaps.

@nessisonett Yeah the language as to what makes a port a remaster or remake is often lost because for many games what appears to be a simple port may require a complete under the hood reengineering and at that point you've remade something.

Its always awkward like that.

@mookysam Samus Returns didn't sell well, probably because of when it landed.

But Metroid peaked at 2m units one time. For Nintendo a game has to really bomb to not be worthwhile going forward.

@Haruki_NLI Metroid also traditionally hasn't been a series that's raked in the cash like other Nintendo IPs so that's another factor to consider

At best it's sold "pretty well" like in the case of Other M but it's not a juggernaut like Mario, Zelda or Animal Crossing despite how far back the series goes in Nintendo's history

So apparently a collection of the Castlevania GBA entries is on the way from the same porting team responsible for the Anniversary Collection

This is a day one on Switch whenever this comes out. I honestly think the GBA and DS games slightly edge out Symphony for me in terms of the best Metroidvania entries in the series

I wanted GBA VC on Switch, but I'll happily take collections and remakes instead.

A Castlevania GBA collection would be a day one buy for me! Still never played Aria of Sorrow (although I have played Circle of the Moon and Dawn of Sorrow on the NDS).

@TheFrenchiestFry @Ralizah Circle of the Moon can feel like BS at times but it’s just so good. Nails the feeling of hopelessness that even Metroid doesn’t always evoke. Still can’t believe I beat it.

@TheFrenchiestFry The top two are the original and Prime I think both over 2 million units.

I mean, this is Nintendo, where Breath of the Wild was stated to need to hit 2 million units to break even and start being profitable and that game had the largest staff they've ever had on one project, and countless delays. I have no doubt Metroid has been profitable, and even if it isnt, I'm sure Nintendo isn't too worried.

@Kidfried I thought it would be a £40 game for sure rather than a £50 one. I guess at least it’s a collection of two games? Bit annoying though especially given the rather ‘budget’ graphics and the fact their games barely go on sale. Really hope it doesn’t limit the popularity.

@Kidfried @nessisonett I do find this debate quite interesting and also hilarious.

Its not greed, and no it's not surprising. Nintendo has always done this and always will.

The world we live in is built around people charging money for a good or service and if the demand isn't there, people don't buy it and the price falls. I find it strange how we suddenly have an issue with a game being £50 because this is how the market has always worked and likely will always work because lord knows how we could change it now.

But here's the thing. People are saying Metroid Dread isn't worth £50. But if it's a 10 hour finely tuned game what makes that less valuable than a game that's 5 hours but 3D for the same price?

Sure it's all based on your perception of value and worth. How a game looks is not the whole package and if it was, then I paid $100 roughly for Ratchet and Clank and it looks pretty.

But for that game at £70 minimum, it was a 17 hour adventure to 100% and Platinum and that was with a fair chunk of being lost and wasting time and screwing up for about two hours in the arena.

I just paid £80 for Metroid Dread's Collectors Edition which comes with extras and the game. The game will, based on previous Metroid titles, last me around 8-10 hours first time through, maybe more, maybe a bit less. That is a blue I'm willing to pay for the game and extras considering how much I will get out of it.

Advance Wars is similar. Never played a game in the series, here's two remade by WayForward, why not right? I don't know how long they'll last me. But for a GBA sized tactical RPG I can say safely 3-5 hours per game. That's 6-10 hours total. £5 an hour.

In my current work-life, that's a fine price to pay.

But there are other games, same price, that I won't buy because for the time I would personally put into them, it's not good value. Mario Golf Super Rush would be great fun with friends but I haven't got that time anymore. So I choose to pass for now.

That's just how the market works. I don't see the point in telling people how to spend their money, that's ridiculous, and yet these days that's what folk on Twitter like doing and the such. Maybe I'm too cynical or something I dunno 🤣🤣🤣

And yeah, imagine if Nintendo games had Sony budgets. Then remember that kind of budget is what led to Days Gone not getting a sequel. That led to NaughtyDog...I mean let's be honest here, kinda ruling the roost in terms of Sony's overall direction.

As Shawn Layden said, eventually budgets are gonna be so big you get less games for more money and those games start to blend together. Even Sony, while starting to brnach out more than they did in the late PS4 era is known for third person action adventures with lots of story and walking and talking and while that's not entirely true, it must be said that God of War, Horizon, Last of Us, Uncharted...they all preach largely to the same choir.

With I suppose "typical" budgets, Nintendo wouldn't do WarioWare, or Metroid, or Yoshi, or Kirby. The returns wouldn't be worth it and the risks would have to be reduced. No new experimental art styles, more homogenisation.

And more live services. Remember those Sony budgets are looking at those now too.

And you don't want a live service Mario Kart.

Edit: Going back to the price debate, remember Crash 4? £60 launch price compared to £40 for three remakes, a kart racing remake, and three Spyro remakes.

Activision devalued their brand. They told people one remake is worth £40. They told them three remakes in were worth £40.

So guess what happened when the market found out one new game was £60? Sales weren't as high, and they weren't as high because Activision told em that be it one game or three, this is how much this IP is.

@Haruki_NLI Nintendo already make vast amounts of money from the bare minimum and mobile games. They don’t need live service.

@nessisonett Sony already makes vast amounts of money from PSN and third party licensing. They don't need live services. They make more money from PSN alone than Nintendo does total.

Yet here they are doing live services anyway.

@Haruki_NLI Remember the Wii U? Captain Toad, Kirby, Yoshi, Mario Maker, Splatoon. Those were all €40 (maybe Yoshi was 45, but definitely not 60). The system came installed with a free game as well, and I even remember getting to download a brand new Wii U game for purchasing Mario Kart 8. Were they desperate? Probably, but it's not like they've never done budget titles before.

Look at Sony. Shadow of the Colossus, a remake built from the ground up, and it was only €40. Ratchet & Clank (2016), Gravity Rush, Tearaway, Wipeout Omega; I'm pretty certain that all of their remakes were no more than €40. Heck, even Miles Morales isn't a fully priced title.

Nintendo these days charges full price for pretty much anything. Did that Mario Party remake require just as much resources as BOTW 2? Don't think so. I've no problem paying 60 for Odyssey, or Splatoon, but there's a bunch of B-tier Nintendo stuff that borders shovelware and has no reason to be full price. They're doing well at the moment with the Switch, they're no different from the ''arrogant Sony'' I've seen mentioned so many times.

@Octane The Wii U came installed with a free game? News to me there.

And yeah, Sony has had budget titles before. Ratchet and Clank (Before this one anyway), Miles Morales, but they also have stuff that should be budget priced as well. Returnal probably shouldnt be $70 ($100 here in the UK), more around $50 since its more experimental. Yet here we are.

And I can think of a Sony remake that wasnt a budget title. Fairly recent at that.

And Nintendo has mercifully been pricing things lower sometimes lately. Game Builder Garage, WarioWare Get It Together, Cadence of Hyrule, they just have a set standard price for most titles, same as every publisher. Sony has $50 and up, Xbox has $15 a month when they actually release a game.

And yeah, is it right to call it out, sure. I'm not arguing that.

It's the idea that every game needs to be at a different price depending on what it is. Remake or not, 2D or 3D, that the value is apparently set in stone to people based on what the game is on a surface level. Advance Wars 1+2 probably isnt a full price title but its also clearly not worth just $30. Metroid Dread is a 2D game and because of that people are saying it should cost the same as Hollow Knight.

That's my issue. The idea that a game being a certain genre or appearance means it cant cost x amount.

But again, the market decides it. That's just how business is. Does it suck? Yep. Should we challenge it? Yep. Will anything change? Nope.

@Haruki_NLI The Wii U Deluxe Pack came with Nintendo Land. I don't think it was pre-installed though. Just a physical copy with the console

@TheFrenchiestFry Mine came with Wind Waker HD pre-installed.

@TheFrenchiestFry I forgot Nintendo Land existed. Yeah that was a disc you got with the Premium Wii U.

I say Premium like it was worth anything.

@Haruki_NLI Returnal was DOA at €80. But it's a lot easier to swallow, because I can already find copies for around €60. In a couple of months it will hit 30 or 40. And that's another difference. If you're willing to wait a couple of months, you can find most PlayStation games for a lot cheaper. Nintendo games rarely ever lower in price. Switch games from 3-4 years ago are still 60. The Advance Wars 1+2 is still gonna be a 60 game in 3 years from now.

Cadence of Hyrule was just an indie game with a Zelda skin, I would've laughed my arse off if they would've charged 60 for that.

Problem with a lot of these 2D platformers and Metroidvanias is that they have incredibly strong competition from indie games. And those games are around €10-20. So yeah, they need to do a lot more to justify why their game is 60. Take something like 3D Mario instead. How many truly good 3D platformers are there for a fraction of that price? None probably. Same with Metroid Prime. Same with Zelda. You can't just buy a brilliant Metroid Prime-like experience for 20. You can for Metroid Dread.

Does it matter that it's 2D? Maybe. I think DK Tropical Freeze was worth the 60. But that was one of the best platformers I've ever played.

@Octane I cant find a copy of any PS5 game for less than the £70 price.

Damn digital PS5. Sony on every prior system let their digital prices drop but not this time. Nope. Cant do that. Heck the recent sale was £10 off. That's still £60.

Never thought Id see a Nintendo sale look good by comparison to something.

@Kidfried What are you referring to exactly there?

@Kidfried Ah that. Yeah sales historically on Sony systems, by now, have been better than just £10 off, even on first party titles. Heck I have a feeling Sony wants their games to hold Nintendo value, and keep that price save for sales.

And with a digital only system on the market, I can't blame em really.