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Topic: The TV Show Thread

Posts 2,141 to 2,160 of 2,218

JohnnyShoulder

@colonelkilgore I think i got quite near to where you are now before I stopped a couple of months back. Not sure if I just needed a break from it or if it completely gone for me. I think the biggest flaw for me is that there are too many episodes of not much happening. That and the lack of non-humanoid lifeforms, but that might be just a me problem. It's a shame cos it looks superb and is written and acted very well.

We are now in a world of people being offended for other people who they think should be offended, who arent offended.
Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt.

PSN: JohnnyShoulder

colonelkilgore

@JohnnyShoulder yeah I struggle to hang my hat on exactly what was ‘missing’ for me... maybe it didn’t highlight/underline the drama quite enough when big sh** was going down. I do think this was gradually rectified as it progressed through season 2 and especially 3 though.

If, like me you are a Sci-fi fan though, give it another go at some stage as it does go in some very interesting and surprising directions. Also, I wasn’t always a fan of the acting on the show (although from your comment this doesn’t seem to have been an issue for you) but where I am now I’ve found that the majority of the case has really ‘found’ their characters and now ‘cooking with gas’.

Super interested to see where it goes in seasons 4 & 5 (& 6 🤞).

There are 2 rules in life:

1. Never disclose all of the information.

Th3solution

@colonelkilgore @JohnnyShoulder Glad to see I’m not the only one who had trouble getting into The Expanse. I think I made it about halfway through season 1 as well and just couldn’t maintain enough interest. I keep saying I should return to it, but other shows or activities pull me away.

The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.

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RogerRoger

@colonelkilgore I'm a huge Trekkie, and people keep telling me to watch The Expanse. I've been nervous to start it because I've been burned before (abandoned an attempted Babylon 5 recently, and hate the rebooted Battlestar Galactica with a furious passion I usually reserve for true evil) and knew that some folks found it difficult to get attached to. I'm also wary of shows made for streaming, as they tend to use extreme violence and bad language to paper over the cracks in their creativity, although I'll admit that I'm saying that with no knowledge of whether The Expanse does the same.

"Always try to be nice, but never fail to be kind."

PSN ID: GDS_2421
Making It So Since 1987

colonelkilgore

@RogerRoger so The Expanse was originally a network show (the Sci Fi channel) but due to the budgetary requirements and a small regular audience it got cancelled after a few seasons. Amazon then picked the show up to my knowledge... and as I implied it takes a while to get going (season 1 was a particular struggle).

Babylon 5 has not aged well but that 5 season narrative arc is just beautifully epic. It's sci-fi loosely inspired by Lord of the Rings. Lots of themes, story beats and even some similar place names that are shared between the two. One day I do wanna watch the whole thing through again, though I'm not sure I could deal with 5 seasons of TV that is that old now. Would love it if it were rebooted actually...

... which brings me to your reaction to Battlestar Galactica (2004-2009) 😱 say it isn't so Rog!

Edited on by colonelkilgore

There are 2 rules in life:

1. Never disclose all of the information.

ralphdibny

@RogerRoger cheers! I love HIGNFY too, I always get the clips recommended to me on youtube. Boris Johnson is always a treat, especially when he hosted it. I of course only mean his HIGNFY appearances, he's not a treat as a politician lol. I like both eras of the show, its probably just as funny or funnier now than when Angus Deayton presented it. That being said, I'd probably like him to come back for an episode or two. It's been some years since his cocaine and hookers "scandal" so I am sure he could pull it off again!

I thought a HIGNFY themed quiz might be a good idea for a push square quiz, like maybe using push square headlines and gaming news. I cant really work out a good way to do it though. It doesn't help that I don't even fully understand one or two of the HIGNFY rounds and the point scoring system haha. Watch this space, or don't watch this space as it will inevitably remain unfilled for a long time or forever.

ralphdibny

RogerRoger

@colonelkilgore Ah, gotcha. Such streaming rescue missions have corrupted a handful of shows I was otherwise enjoying, so I'll tread carefully. Thanks for the heads-up!

I had nothing against Babylon 5 and found it to be a well-written, well-acted show. I think I just ran out of energy with it, y'know? I actually dropped it right in the middle of a huge storyline crescendo, a couple episodes away from the end of its fourth season. I will go back and finish it someday, but the knowledge that I've then got a bunch of TV movies and spin-off shows to incorporate into its final season was making things feel needlessly complicated. Still, it came in a lovely box.

I've ranted about Battlestar Galactica around here before, at length, and it didn't do me any favours. I get that it's popular and was revelatory for many, but... well, as I said, I'm a Trekkie. I like to believe that the future holds some hope for humanity, and that we're gonna overcome our weaknesses and fulfil our capacity for good. It's why Deep Space Nine is my least-favourite Star Trek, because the immature edgelord Ronald D. Moore was desperate to corrupt Gene Roddenberry's utopian ethos and make everything bleak, brooding, angsty and nihilistic. But they wouldn't let him ruin The Next Generation, so they sent him to work on a spin-off instead, which he then spent seven years complaining about because, despite getting to write such offensive bile as "In the Pale Moonlight", he felt constrained by the pre-established rules of the fictional universe. So he went and found something else to hijack, and the end result is the Battlestar Galactica reboot, a show so bereft of hope and warmth that I found it genuinely depressing to endure as much as I did.

My partner (who'd seen it before) watched it with me, and we made it as far as the two-parter where the other Battlestar shows up. I spent the whole thing squirming. He turned to me afterwards and said "I'm not gonna subject you to any more of this" because he could see that I found it properly harmful.

I'm not naïve about humanity. I've seen it at its worst, up close and personal. That's why Star Trek, good Star Trek, is so important to me. We can always make mistakes, we can always screw things up, but we equally have to want to overcome such shortcomings. I have to believe that we can be better than we are. Otherwise, what's the gosh-darn point?

Sorry. I should've kept that shorter. Please feel free to ignore me!

"Always try to be nice, but never fail to be kind."

PSN ID: GDS_2421
Making It So Since 1987

RogerRoger

@ralphdibny I think it's a great idea! Could work; missing words and odd-one-out could be adapted with some Microsoft Paint skills, and then maybe a series of images offering clues about an important headline or game, to represent the first round.

The points are ridiculous on the show, so just give 'em out to people who get things right!

"Always try to be nice, but never fail to be kind."

PSN ID: GDS_2421
Making It So Since 1987

colonelkilgore

@RogerRoger it is funny how people who find common ground in one area (we seem to have a somewhat similar gaming 'pallette') can be so polar opposite in another area of geekdom.

Deep Space 9 came at just the right time for me as I was a moody teenager when it aired and I was instantly drawn into the dark cloak-and-dagger'ness' of it all. I also loved (something that you will no doubt hate) the introduction of a clandestine side to the Federation in Section 31. And Battlestar, well that probably came around in my mid 20's and I genuinely love it... probably watched the whole thing through 3 or 4 times... probably due another actually 😉.

As I've mentioned before though, likes and dislikes are a very personal thing... and there is no right or wrong answer. I admire your perspective built on hope for humanity and could probably do with a big helping of that myself. I do tend to view things the other way though... nihilism, staring into the abyss and all that, also the 70's is one of my favourite era's for art and entertainment and there is this 'real' dour outlook after the 60's bubble was burst with Watergate and the truths of the Vietnam War...

... and yes, I'm real fun at parties 😉

Edited on by colonelkilgore

There are 2 rules in life:

1. Never disclose all of the information.

RogerRoger

@colonelkilgore Oh, hey, I frequently contradict myself and fall for dark, gritty shows and films. I think it matters to me whether something was designed to strike a certain tone. Star Trek was always intended to be an optimistic and hopeful comment on the human condition and so, when it overtly flies in the face of that, I feel uncomfortable... but then prequel series Enterprise, deliberately going back to show humanity finding its feet before the Federation? I loved that when it got dark, because it had a purpose in doing so, in service of a larger, more hopeful endgame. It's the same reason I love Batman, and 24, and a host of other darker, more complex characters and storylines. They're making a point.

Deep Space Nine is epic, and very spectacular, and largely enjoyable. I just writhed in my seat whenever it deliberately started to deconstruct a well-established universe, one it shared with other shows, crews and characters simultaneously. You've got Picard telling Lily that "money doesn't exist in the 24th Century" at the same time Dax is taking Quark for all his latinum at the tongo wheel.

And you're absolutely right, it matters when we find things in life. I did most of my self-aware growing up in the late 90s and early 00s and so started out with a healthy dose of optimism from my entertainment which was then suddenly and irrevocably transformed by 9/11. Perhaps that's why I can appreciate both sides of the "light vs. dark" argument, tracing back the stuff I liked before and after such a seismic shift. It's always interesting to go back and double-check opinions on things as well, because we do all change. I hope you still enjoy your fifth Battlestar Galactica re-watch!

I'm grateful for your reply, and for respecting diversity of opinion. That'd make you pretty good company at a party, I reckon, and a fun person to discuss and debate things with!

"Always try to be nice, but never fail to be kind."

PSN ID: GDS_2421
Making It So Since 1987

JohnnyShoulder

@colonelkilgore I'm not sure he will get that reference, having never played those games!

We are now in a world of people being offended for other people who they think should be offended, who arent offended.
Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt.

PSN: JohnnyShoulder

colonelkilgore

@JohnnyShoulder I do have a habit of using terms from pop-culture as if everybody knows what I'm on about. Still, if any term transcended the medium... it probably wouldn't be umbasa actually, i think you're right!

@RogerRoger praise the sun 🤗

There are 2 rules in life:

1. Never disclose all of the information.

ralphdibny

@colonelkilgore I love DS9! Easily one of my favourite Treks. Obviously the first few seasons are pure cheese but once you sit through that and get to know and love the characters it's all good. I've spoke to Rog about it a bit in the past so I'm sure he's heard all this from me already!

I love the underbelly aspect of it and the scrutinization of the Federation's utopia. They've always had outright villains in Trek so why not have the shades of grey too. It's not realistic to think that everyone is so evil that they have to be a villain or that the good guys have no foibles. I think as a person that falls in to that grey area myself, I quite like the everyman sort of aspect to it. Well actually I suppose the last few years of every day politics has kind of shown that you are considered evil if you have even a single character flaw but it's not necessarily representative of humanity's development as a whole.

It's all well and good for the Federation to say we don't have money, we have infinite resources etc but up until DS9 we had only really followed the crew of the flagship of the Federation. Naturally their status and experiences are going to be vastly favourable in comparison to someone scrubbing the plasma conduits on a 40 year old freight ship.

A utopia works if you are at the top of it and you embrace it's culture. The moment you want to do something that's not constructive but is just fun for the sake of it, the utopia becomes stifling. There's no freedom unless what you want to do aligns with the greater good.

It's also about the acceptance of cultural differences while calling out the stuff that is categorically wrong. The lines get blurred but why not allow a bit of Dabo gambling and scantily clad women when you can deconstruct a people trafficking ring or establish gender equality on Ferenginar.

Anyway enough rambling! I do think DS9 manages to balance the ideological scrutiny with the uplifting themes of Trek as a whole quite well. One could hope that a middle ground could be found where the smugglers, gamblers and pirates could find a place in a society dominated by scientists, explorers, engineers and writers.

Edited on by ralphdibny

ralphdibny

colonelkilgore

@ralphdibny I knew I couldn’t be alone... love your thoughts on the show too, they mirror my own quite closely. I’ve always seen the Federation as the idealised version of the United States (probably a sci if version of pre 9/11 USA) and that Deep Space 9 was an expose of what it really took behind the scenes to present the idyllic facade. Like you I felt season 1 was a real grind but seem to remember it picking up a bit in season 2... once **** really started hitting the fan in the later seasons though there was some real magic. Shame not that many people stayed around that long.

There are 2 rules in life:

1. Never disclose all of the information.

RogerRoger

@JohnnyShoulder @colonelkilgore Now I really wanna know what I'm missing!

Also, huge respect for the thoughtful musings on Deep Space Nine presented by @ralphdibny and seconded by Mr. Gameplay King up there. I can't argue with any of it, despite not personally preferring such an approach. Funnily enough (and I promise, not just to be contrarian) I actually reckon the first couple of seasons had some of the show's strongest episodes. I thought "Duet" was a masterpiece, with a brilliant kicker of an ending. Nana Visitor and Harris Yulin knocked it out of the park. Absolutely classic Trek.

"Always try to be nice, but never fail to be kind."

PSN ID: GDS_2421
Making It So Since 1987

colonelkilgore

@RogerRoger well, your only missing the greatest frikking games ever made... personal opinion of course.

There are 2 rules in life:

1. Never disclose all of the information.

RogerRoger

@colonelkilgore Coming hot on the heels of such a divergence between our opinions, you'll forgive me if I don't rush out and start buying all of the... [checks Google]... wait, the Soulsborne games?! Okay, maybe we are more different than alike after all, buddy!

"Always try to be nice, but never fail to be kind."

PSN ID: GDS_2421
Making It So Since 1987

colonelkilgore

@RogerRoger 😭 well there’s nowt as queer as folk, as they say

Edited on by colonelkilgore

There are 2 rules in life:

1. Never disclose all of the information.

ralphdibny

@colonelkilgore there are more of us! I know a few DS9 fans in real life too so we are not alone.

@RogerRoger cheers and same to you! I think it goes without saying, but you've more of less said it to me and Kilgore so I should also say that I respect your opinions and find them very interesting. It should be a given though considering the long conversations we've had about this and MGS in the past! I wouldn't engage with you if I didn't enjoy it!

I want to say that the first couple of seasons are more traditional Trek which might be why you enjoy them more. But I'll refer back to my thoughts on the "eras" of Trek and say that the first couple of seasons are better described as classic "90s" Trek. They are more cheesy than the previous TNG era.

ralphdibny

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