Topic: The TV Show Thread

I guess I can see that. Though I'm not sure why it always has to be a choice between these two opposite poles - hulking MMA/WWE type or supermodel but I should probably just appreciate the effort they made and can it already.

@RogerRoger And yeah, some of her appeal may have come down to how invested one was in the show too. Since I'm basically just there because of my spouse and to see baby yoda, I wasn't keyed into much of the backstory or character chemistry for that matter.

Anyway I went to sleep having just found out Pedro Pascal is gonna be Joel which bummed me out because I just don't see it (and it also makes me wonder what in the world they're gonna do with Tommy and Sarah) but I thought on it over some coffee this morning and eh, they probably could have done worse. First world problems anyway.

Problem is social media. Comparing anything to Nazi Germany is stupid, but so is firing someone because of a tweet or because the toxic part of the fandom doesn’t like her because of her political views. Once again we also see the popular republican being complete Hippocrates again. Republicans hated how dems and anti trumpers compared Trump to Hitler which is also a terrible thing to do. But now that the democrats are in office it seems that comparing them to Nazi’s is fine. 😔 I just freaking hate politics. It’s going to get to a point where every movie is going to have complete Rep or Dem casts because no one can deal with having someone disagree with them.

My final position is she shouldn’t have been fired but what she said was very much so out of line.

It wasn’t just because of public outcry that Gina Careno was fired. She was openly malicious and tone-deaf about trans people and Pedro Pascal’s sister came out as trans literally yesterday. I can’t imagine it would be easy on set with her in the first place, never mind with the crazy stuff she was saying about something that close to Pedro. He tried on Twitter a while back to explain rationally and level with her but she wasn’t having it. At this point it would be like Spurs signing David Icke, the controversy overshadows the actual part to the point it just isn’t worth it.

Freedom of speech is not freedom from consequence. Why do people seem to think that someone can publicly say whatever hateful thing pops into their head and not have any ramifications whatsoever? Words are not devoid of meaning or in some bubble. And if someone has a public platform these words legitimise the hateful views of their followers, and can even embolden acts of physical violence - or insurrection, for instance. If an employee at any company started saying those things (especially to their customers) then they would be disciplined and probably end up sacked. That this fool is a celebrity makes no difference whatsoever. Good riddance.

@zupertramp Yeah, I’m not even sure if it was a conscious decision by Disney to cast a ‘different body-typed’, shall we say, actress in a central role simply for diversity’s sake, but I suspect it was part of the allure of her as an actress. They seem to like to portray progressive casting. I don’t agree or disagree with it either way - it makes no difference so long as I like the final result within the show’s narrative, but all things being equal I appreciate the diversity. But a more stout MMA/WWE persona fits the role of her rebellious mercenary character. In fact, when they brought it the other female action-oriented characters (the group of women Mandalorians, I forget all their names) toward the end of the season, they all seemed a little waiflike in comparison and seemed less convincing to be combat specialists (see also Rey... although I can see it make more sense with a Jedi because the lack of reliance on physical strength). Anyways — being a man, I can’t speak confidently regarding how women feel about their representation in action film and TV series, but the inclusion of Carano resonated with some of my female friends.

@mookysam Well said. There are a lot of celebrities with controversial opinions and wacky life theories. (Paging Mr. Cruise...) In fact I’d say that Hollywood has a higher than average density of nut-jobs with unpopular ideals. It’s just most of them keep it to themselves to avoid the consequences.

@Th3solution Fair take. I have no friends (female or otherwise) to bounce opinions off of lol, so my views sometimes lack perspective - something I'll freely acknowledge.

In any case, I'm okay with them cutting her loose. I also got the feeling she was pushing to see where their line was. She found it. What are ya gonna do?

@zupertramp Oh, I agree — I’m always reluctant to speak for a subset of society that I don’t particularly belong in.

But yes, I think she found that line.
And given what @nessisonett said about the anti-trans sentiment on the set, I’m shocked they let it go this long.

“The Daily Wire is helping make one of my dreams — to develop and produce my own film — come true. I cried out and my prayer was answered. I am sending out a direct message of hope to everyone living in fear of cancellation by the totalitarian mob. I have only just begun using my voice which is now freer than ever before, and I hope it inspires others to do the same. They can’t cancel us if we don’t let them.”

It's funny, I really was trying to give this woman the benefit of the doubt in that I know what it's like to have a knack for self-sabotage. It's like a mental illness and you can't help but constantly shoot yourself in the foot but honestly I don't think that's it with her.

Like many ultra-conservatives... nah screw it ... Like almost all extremists, from either side, she has a persecution complex. It's that simple. She wasn't looking for the line as much as she was trying desperately to cross it with the expectation of consequences that would then reinforce her belief that the system's against her. I get so tired of these people.

Sorry, rant over. Looking forward to a new Servant and WandaVision.

Really enjoyed this week’s WandaVision, a whole lot of questions, answers and amazing nods to the comics. I would love for the characters to move forward in the MCU but I worry that this is the last we’ll see of most of them.

So I just finished watching both seasons of Mandalorian. I know I am a bit late to the party but I really enjoyed it.

The main thing i liked about it is the theme tune. Its just brilliant, especially the more subdued part of it if you click back to watch the credits once the Disney+ app wants to usher you on to the next episode.

I really like that it is a Western in almost every way. It has the wanderer type character, the man with (initially) no name going from place to place and interacting in whatever is required of him at the time. Pedro Pascal does his best Clint Eastwood impression which is just awesome. Theres a scene with the kid and a blue wire and and a red wire. The way the Mandalorian gives the instructions sounds just like Clint Eastwoods often exasperated conversations with people in his own films. Especially the way he says "blue wire".

I really liked all the random actors they got in for this too, Carl Weathers, Natalia Tena, Nick Nolte, Ming Na Wen, Bill Burr, Richard Ayoade etc. You know, theres more than that but these were the standouts for me!

The effects are really good, I wonder if they got the Jim Henson Company to do any of the puppetry. the frog couple definitely looked very kermit-like in certain poses! I also spotted and enjoyed the Office Space reference when Bill Burr tries to take away the maskless but disguised Mandalorian to fill out some "TPS Reports" !

I think firing Gina was pathetic.

Firstly, it just ruins the show for a personal view that has nothing to do with it. Now they're in a position where this prominent character is just going to disappear for no reason, or the actor will just get replaced. Either way it will just be jarring, and they already had a good actress for the role.

Then, there is a massive double standard. Apparently it was demeaning to the victims of the holocaust to use them in the analogy because Republicans obviously have it better. But people use Nazi/holocaust analogies ALL the time. Do we need to fire every person who has compared Trump to Hitler, because the worst affected people under Trump's idiocy have still suffered nowhere near as much as holocaust victims. Absolutely no one in the Western World since 1945 has had as bad since then, so when exactly are these comparisons acceptable? Also, its as if people are claiming Gina is comparing modern day events to the holocaust itself which isn't true in the slightest. The post Gina shared didn't mention the holocaust once, it was clearly talking about the effects of the Nazis early days in power, and how they managed to manipulate the general population into hating a minority group. It's as if people see the persecution of Jews by Nazi Germany as simply "the holocaust", and don't realise it was complicated and lots of things led to it, and Nazi censorship and riling up hatred was a massive part of that process.

And I despise this idea that "freedom of speech doesn't mean freedom of consequences". It's always such an American way of thinking that, freedom of speech should only protected from the government and nothing else. Corporations and businesses arguably have as much power as governments, so of course they can limit freedom of speech just as easily. Censorship through legal means and censorship through corporate means are similar: they prevent people spreading ideas through the means of a deterrent. If I literally risk losing my livelihood because I express an idea, I'm not really free to say what I want. And I don't buy the argument "You can say what you want, there are just consequences for speech". By that logic Nazi Germany had freedom of speech (oh no, someone had better fire me) because you can say what you want, but the consequence is death.

The message being shared wasn't even bad, it was actually a decent message to take. Don't hate someone for their political views. Who earth gets mad at that!?

Bit of a rant there, but the whole situation really irritates me. I agree the the comparison was exaggerated, but as I explained earlier so is every Nazi analogy. I hate this attitude that it's fine to oppress and discourage freedom of expression, as long as it's not the government doing it. I want people to understand that freedom of expression isn't specifically about the government not being able to censor people, but the idea the people should be able to speak freely and nothing should be too taboo for a conversation, providing that the context is suitable.

Anybody who immediately gets into bed with Ben Shapiro and doubles down on the nonsense after being taken aside and told ‘you’re being a Wally’ deserves all they get.

@ralphdibny I'm ashamed to admit I didn't catch that Office Space reference.

@ThroughTheIris56 I think if you're one of the faces of a company, it's in that company's interest not to keep you around if you're saying unbearable things, like, repeatedly. You should definitely get some leeway to express yourself on your own time but like, there's gotta be a limit, no?

Plus no one is censoring her. Disney/Lucasfilm have just chosen not to associate themselves with her. But she's still free to post on tik tok or Twitter or wherever. Or yes, free to double down with shapiro.

Regular people do get fired for this stuff btw.

Edit: all that said, i don't want the forums to become an echo chamber so I appreciate dissenting views like yours from other members. fwiw.

@zupertramp well it's a quick line so don't feel too bad! I feel like the TPS report is the main thing that gets mentioned when something decides to reference office space. I just had a look for memes on Google and there are a surprising amount of memes that have Darth Vader in place of Bill Lumbergh 😅

@ralphdibny Glad you enjoyed Mando. I highly reccomend to watch the behind the scenes stuff too, there is a whole episode on how they did all the practical effects.

@zupertramp There are many "faces" of Disney though, so it's not like people will necessarily believe that Disney as a company will share the views of Gina herself. A person's views that they express in their own free time in a suitable context should not be associated with her work life. I think this idea that the views of a single person will suddenly make a company look bad, is just a completely unfounded idea. The fear of it happening seems to have more of impact, than the actual association itself. Again, what Gina recently wasn't even bad at all. Maybe there should be a limit, but what should that limit be and who defines it?

She's still being punished for her beliefs though. As I said earlier, threatening people for saying what they want creates a toxic environment in which people can't say what they believe. You're right that it's not the only case. Recently a Guardian columnist (Nathan Robinson) was fired for an "offensive" tweet about Israel. I'll let you decide whether the tweet was offensive or not, but I believe regular people should NOT be fired for this stuff as well. I want a society where we don't make artificial consequences for speaking what we believe.

But I do respect you appreciating my view, so thank you!

@ThroughTheIris56 It's likely true there'll probably be no immediate impact to Disney by keeping someone like her around. There may be a handful of "I'm cancelling my sub because of X" but on the whole most people probably value the service too much to get rid of it on account of her. So you got me there.

I suppose it's just an image thing, with Disney not wanting anti-mask, anti-LGBT, and, some one would argue, anti-semitic views to be a part of that image. I'm not really sold on her comments being all that anti-semitic but you kinda gotta know someone is gonna take it that way when you try to compare yourself to Jews in Nazi Germany. It's not especially bigoted in my opinion, but it's certainly ill-advised.

I really think some of her previous comments were worse and this latest was just the straw.

And yeah the Nathan Robinson thing, ugh... I'm not even gonna touch that other than to say I give far more leeway to jokes. Maybe I shouldn't, but I do.

As far as regular folk, I'd prefer they weren't fired for views outside of work but I'm not sure I can sign off on that across the board. Maybe there's some cases where it's understandable that an employer would want to cut ties with an employee whose wacky views might be a blight. Especially since not every business is Disney and can't necessarily afford a few lost customers.

But I certainly understand why maybe people in the public eye would be held to a more stringent standard. Then again who knows, maybe firing them makes it worse by martyring them and their views.

Edit: Feel like I left this in kind of a waffling state so I'll end with a more decided view that I think maybe, in the current climate here in the US, aligning yourself with seditionists (and by that I mean even sounding a little bit like them) is just not a good look. So I hear your concerns but idk, maybe a person should be willing to decide what's best for them: bolstering a lost cause or keeping their job.

@zupertramp The thing about people like Gina being fired is that it’s honestly the opposite of ‘cancelling’ them as it just hands them a career of pandering to masses of Q Anon supporters. Look at Lawrence Fox and that country guy that got fired recently, they carve themselves a career by appealing to that lot and pushing themselves further away from the mainstream. Which, really, isn’t that different from mainstream actors carving a career by saying things like ‘don’t be racist’ and hence keeping their Disney job other than the obvious not believing in cannibal lizard people at the centre of the earth (genuinely that’s a part of Q Anon).

Also look at how Piers Morgan and Fox News were cancelled by Trump supporters after calling the election for Biden, which shows that they don’t care about anything other than these commentators saying what they want them to. Or even the fury whenever Brie Larson is brought up on NLife. It was never about free speech, both sides just want celebrities to agree with them except the mainstream doesn’t have room for both. It swings in roundabouts, look at how progressive Hollywood was in the pre-Code era and then they put the Hays Code in place as a reaction to the ‘immorality’ of Hollywood. That was blatant censorship by the right in Hollywood along with Communist witch-hunts and it’s never brought up when people complain now about the same thing (although less extreme due to the changing methods of distribution allowing nobody to really be truly cancelled) being done to them. While I doubt Ben Shapiro is going to deliver the next Midnight Cowboy, eventually things will swing round again.

@nessisonett Indeed the decentralization of Hollywood (or rather, our sources of visual entertainment more generally) really prevents anyone from truly being cancelled. That's a good point. It's why Kirk Cameron can keep pumping out as many monstrosities as he wants as long as there are people who want to watch them.

And yeah I saw Chris Hayes, surprisingly, comparing this to Hollywood's blacklisting days but I think this kind of comparison greatly minimizes that distinctly totalitarian period. One which differs from the backlash Gina is receiving I think.

Anyway like you say, she has plenty of places to go... Shapiro, Cameron, D'Souza, Dana White. Which again could be an argument for not firing her for her views. Idk.

Also, TV related topic here, never seen or had any interest in Mr. and Mrs. Smith. Something about it doesn't really appeal to me plus I can't really stand Jolie but I'm all for a show with Phoebe Waller-Bridge and Donald Glover.