Topic: The Movie Thread

I mean, what's new?

@FullbringIchigo Jeez, I didn’t realise it got that bad! That kind of vitriol is mind numbingly disgusting and abhorrent. I’m not claiming to be a saint, but how can somebody be so vile? I mean, sure, hate the character, but not the actor, for goodness sake....it’s just a made up figment of someone’s imagination. Although, as nasty as that all is, I guess it could be argued that the actor playing the character has taken the unpleasant attitude of others to heart because they too haven’t separated their role from themselves. Every coin has 2 sides, I suppose 🤷🏻‍♂️

@Kidfried

Midichlorians.

@Kidfried @Th3solution That's because George Lucas is always lauded as a 'great storyteller' - but actually can't write for toffee.

@RogerRoger I find Lucas' need to racially stereotype a lot of TPM alien races a distinct annoyance - Jar Jar and the Gungans being the worst of the lot. I don't think he's racist - but there's clearly a lack of imagination there.

Firstly, I don't condone any of the over the top fan backlash mentality at all. I feel sorry for the Jar Jar actor having had his life ruined, same as Jake Lloyd as Anakin.

However, I do get why Jar Jar is singled out so much in a way. He is very emblematic of some of the issues with that film - racial stereotypes, the jarring juxtaposition between kid/toy friendly aspects and the more adult themes of bureacracy and destiny and the confusion over the lore (midichlorians etc.). I also think the technology and green screen reliance in those prequels really hurt the actors who weren't used to it.

I don't really hate on TPM that much. I was lucky enough to see an early copy of TPM weeks before it came out in the UK and it made me a local celebrity and I loved it at the time. I think it is superior to AOTC which is my least favourite of all the Star Wars movies (with the possible exception of TLJ).

@Th3solution you mean those things Lucas introduced on the original draft of a New Hope in the 70's?

there is nothing wrong with Midichlorians

Midichlorians allowed for a connection with the pervasive energy field known as the Force; in sufficient numbers, midi-chlorians could allow their symbiont organism to detect the Force, and this connection could be strengthened by quieting one's mind, allowing the midi-chlorians to "speak" to their symbiont and communicate the will of the Force

in other words, what they are a bridge that allows you to feel and with training interact with "The Force"

basically if we use technology as an analog, your a computer the force is the internet and the midichlorians is your wi-fi router

they do not "create" the force nor are they the source of it as many people WRONGLY believe because they didn't listen to what was said in Episode 1 and later Clone Wars episodes, all they are is something that explains why everybody isn't throwing around objects with their mind so people should stop getting so bent out of shape about them

@FullbringIchigo I think the issue with midichlorians is attempting an explanation for something that doesn't need it. It is not just specific to Star Wars but is a problem with many narrative stories - basically, the explanation isn't as good as someones imagination.

The original trilogy didn't try and explain it so everyone could draw their own conclusions - for example, it is psychic force, some sort of law of the universe, whatever. Then to be told what it is, everyone who had in their own head what they wanted it to be was disappointed. Also, the explanation sounds odd.

The same is true as explaining the powers of the One in the Matrix trilogy. Keanu Reeves is the prophecised hero in 1 then in 2 and 3 finds out he wasn't prophesised but just a programme. In Highlander, you have mystical warriors fighting across time. In Highlander 2 they are aliens from the planet who cares.

If you try and explain something mythic and undetermined, it will disappoint.

@Rudy_Manchego true but i don't think in this case it was that kind of explanation, i think Lucas just needed to explain why Anakin, the Jedi and Sith were so special and different to everyone else for the story

but the thing is, is the message here for films/TV not to explain things or for people to NOT draw baseless conclusions? after all just because something doesn't end up as you imagined it to be isn't the fault of the people making it but your fault for believing you was right (and by you i don't mean YOU i mean people in general)

@RogerRoger Whether Best chooses to admit it or not, the Gungans aren't far removed from the the world of blackface caricature and old cartoons. They are depicted through the two main Gungans we see on screen as stubborn, intellectually stunted, easily manipulated and generally inferior throughout. That's not even getting started on the actual performances. Transpose the audio from Boss Nass and Jar Jar to one of those old cartoons and you'd be hard pressed to defend it. EDIT: (not that I think you have to)
Don't even want to start with the Nimoidians and Watto...

@RogerRoger Just lazy I think. Reeks of someone (with no one on hand to say 'no') trying to to be profound; but not really knowing what that means.

@FullbringIchigo I see your point and the audience has to take some of the responsibility for misinterpretation and poorly placed expectations (The Last Jedi is also an example of this as it was so far removed from what fans expected and wanted that it came under fire) but I have to agree with @Rudy_Manchego ‘s salient point that clearly Lucas didn’t appreciate the value of mysticism and the allure of self interpretation of his universe. He was just hell-bent on telling the story he created. It’s his right to tell his own story, but if you’ve read the early drafts of the Star Wars saga before A New Hope was filmed, then you know that there were many things that he changed and left out from his initial ideas. It’s quite entertaining to go back and see how the early drafts were so different. So in my opinion it was poor judgment to include his original idea of the midichlorians and lose the viewer imaginative investment that many had held for so many years. Obviously it worked out for him because he could buy each and every one of us here many times over with the mountains of money he possesses now, but the fan disappointment with the explanation of Force users is well placed, imo. But to each his own. I just envision all these little sentient microbes crawling through a Jedi’s bloodstream and it just sounds strange, so I choose to ignore the concept.
@RogerRoger @KALofKRYPTON Although it doesn’t make it acceptable, but we do have to take the racial stereotyping and cultural misappropriation present in Phantom Menace in the context of the time period it was made. Again let me reiterate, I’m not saying it shouldn’t be criticized, but we can’t expect social progress to be at the level in 1999 that it is in 2018. And in 20 years from now, current media will likely have offensive content we may not realize now. I remember reading a lot about James Bond in this thread and it’s the same situation. Those older Bond films are so insensitive toward the treatment of women, as are old John Wayne movies, etc. It’s been a couple years but I remember the Humphrey Bogart character in Casablanca made me feel a little uncomfortable with how he treated Ingrid Bergman, but the movie was so boring to me that it’s hard to tell. 😉
Point is, it’s easier to judge some of this in retrospect, but probably a little bit unfair.

@Th3solution i just tend to think of them in the same vein as the many different bacteria we have in our bodies, they are just something that's there

@Th3solution let's not pretend that the mid to late nineties were a more accepting time of things like blackface or obvious stereotyping - things haven't changed that much in 20 years other than the levels of collective outrage. The stereotypes in TPM stood out as clearly to me as a 17 year old as they do now.

I'm not particularly offended by TPM, without the benefit of being held back, Lucas tells stories with a cudgel - with all of the subtlety and finesse of a charging Rhino.

As I say, opposed to being offended - I largely find it distasteful, lazy and just indicative of a lazy storyteller.

EDIT: Anyway - go do the quiz!

@Th3solution @KALofKRYPTON @RogerRoger i watched The Living Daylights yesterday and i noticed in this one Bond was a lot more respectful of the female characters than earlier Bonds were, well apart from smacking Moneypenny on the backside although she was flirting with him as much as he was with her

but in regards to Kara he was a lot less predatory than previous Bonds were with their female leads, he even took her on a date

@FullbringIchigo That's because Dalton is the man! 😁

@KALofKRYPTON True

@KALofKRYPTON Lol, fair enough. I can’t say that I can be a good judge of societal norms through the ages, but just follow the trends I notice in cinema and the media. I haven’t been around to see or notice progress first hand.
And yes, I need to get my quiz answers in. I glanced through the questions briefly but just getting around to it. 😅

Speaking of " Especially with the fact that the PS4 has Netflix"

@Kyroki You got some taste in the movies, mate.

Speaking of "Especially with the fact that the PS4 has Netflix"
There's a good VPN for Playstation console, and this, PureVPN for Ps4