Topic: American Sports

@Th3solution I was going to message you after the first quarter of Boston v Dallas and vent that the Celtic's starters play such lazy uninspiring basketball when fully healthy, to see what you made of it all. But then they altered the rotations and they got going so it didn't really matter in the end. But, oooh boy, the start was so bad, and indicative of recent bad form 😅

Wondering about the opinion from the outside looking in, though. KP, for example, has been playing pretty nicely, averages up and he affects the games well. But the other 4 when he starts just stand around looking at him 😂 it is really quite strange. They also seem to play 5 out a lot with that lineup, and when nothing is on they simply throw it at the big man and hope he can score over someone. It is kind of like JT and JB forget how to play for a while and are really passive.

Not sure if it is a trend that will continue, as they have only played about 14 or 15 games togehter this year, but something for opposing teams to look out for.

The weird thing is, D White and Holiday both play the low dunker spot as Guards in other line ups, but when KP is out there they seem to forget how to space around him. Maybe it's because they feel like the 5th option at that point, but they don't seem the type to care. So I genuinely think it is because Tatum and Brown can get lured into expecting KP to be the cheat code bail out option, that the overall team play deteriorates and the urgency in the first quarter is off.

I know you like your stats: so our starters were about -14 or worse plus/minus since we became fully healthy, which is totally bananas, right? Haha.

Also, I've fallen off NFL so far that I don't even know if the playoffs have been this weekend. So yeah, who's going to the superbowl?

@Ravix Yeah, I saw some of the game and was surprised it was close for the first half, given the Mavericks hampered roster — I think like 5 rotation players are down. (3 of their 4 centers are now injured, 2 with foot fractures 😬) Boston ended up pulling away and making it a blow out though once the 3’s started falling and they got their energy back up. KP is probably a big key to them this year though. From what I saw, he facilitates a lot of the offense and he changes up shots in the paint on defense. I saw even wide open layups missed by the Mavs just because they were throwing the ball up awkwardly due to the threat of him blocking it, even when he wasn’t even in position to do so. It’s strange, because the team did most of their damage last year without him, so you’d think they could play fine without him. We’ll see. Can he stay healthy the rest of the season is the question. I honestly don’t think they are too worried about being the top seed in the playoffs, but they do need to be a little more in sync come playoff time. Their points in the paint and rebounding really is where they are needing improvement.

As for the NFL, the Super Bowl will be KC vs Philadelphia, most likely. Which we’ve seen before, like 2 or 3 Super Bowls ago, so it’s not all that exciting if you’re not a fan of either team or are not a Swiftie. I think maybe this time the Eagles might win it though. Mahomes Magic has to run out sooner or later, right?

@Th3solution my point is kind of that we do play better (the starting unit, anyway) without KP. Even though KP himself is the best player on the court when the starting line up is playing together since his return. JT and JB seem to play better when the rotations begin, so when Pritchard, Horford, Hauser or Kornet are in. Luke Kornet actually plays really well with Tatum and Tatum really cooks when some of the subs are in.

It's a weird mentality thing where when KP is there with the full starting lineup they rely on him too much and forget they also have to start games attacking the rim and opening up the floor for everyone. Star players can never be too passive, even if someone is the go to match up, they still need to affect the game early in the shotclock.

With reps maybe the starters will click again, but if not I'd not mind if they changed the lineups some nights to have someone unexpected coming off the bench. It seems weird, but maybe it's something a coach like Mazzulla could dare try if the starters together stay at a low plus/minus. You can't go in to the playoffs with a starting unit that has a negative rating when all on the court together 😅

It didn't take long for subs to come in last night though, maybe 5 or 6 minutes and Payton Pritchard was subbed in because the starters were just so passive. I just don't like the idea of them starting slow and having to change it, when they could simply start much faster and not play 5 out lazy basketball just because KP is really tall and can shoot it from 30 feet 😂 when they play fast, attack the rim and KP is still really tall, that's when they build big scores.

Last year we'd hit 65/70 points by half time genuinely regularly with and without KP. This year it has been more like 50/58 with KP starting, which is crazy. But, like I say, he's doing his job, just the others seem to be passive and watching him rather than starting the attacks themselves.

But it was a 3-1 road trip, so record wise it's decent. Just something to watch out for if they suddenly lose more games you'd expect them to win, because this is why it's been happening. And White had been slumping bad, which kind of kills the team and makes every game closer than it should be.

Also, as for stats 3-1 road trip looks good. But we literally only won one of those games because Jayden Springer came out of nowhere as a sub and stole the ball 5 times in a row and hit a ridiculous 3 while James Harden was screaming in his ear from the sideline 😂 I hope he develops with the Celtics, as he has a real eye for defense and momentum plays.

Ah, so the SwiftBowl it will be. I guess it'd be kind of nice to see that not happen, right? Would her fanbase break down and cry if KC don't win? It seems like the kind of thing people would be blubbering about on social media 😁

Will any playoff games be in the snow? 😅

@Ravix I think all 4 teams left are cold weather teams, actually. Certainly Buffalo, Washington, and Philadelphia. KC has snow with regularity also. But both games show 0% chance of precipitation. Ironically, the Super Bowl site in New Orleans was devastated by a winter storm last week, which never happens there. The whole city shut down. You may have seen the videos of people ice skating on Bourbon Street.

As for the Swifties, I’m pretty sure they will follow whatever Taylor does as far as emotional response, should the Chiefs lose. If she breaks down then they all will. 😅 I don’t think she will though. She’ll probably be supportive of her guy Kelse if they lose and the internet will be gushing about it. 🤮

I feel like a KC / Eagles rematch is like the least interesting outcome here, but also feels like the most inevitable outcome here. I feel like the only one with really any real "upset" potential is maybe the Commanders, because how many times do they need to slay giants with clutch final plays before we just accept that is who they are. It should be in their favour too as Hurts has that knee injury, but then Washington seem to be accumulating a lot of key injuries on their own, and Eagles have undeniably the better roster, so kinda like how the Lions flamed out in the end, I guess its a test of just how valuable a QB is, and whether they can push a weaker roster over the top of a stronger one, that might have an injured QB at the helm.

I feel like maybe the only hope for the Bills, is the anger to how that KC game was officiated felt like it truly reached boiling point in that Texans game and I wonder if, even if its just mentally, it causes the Bills game to be officiated differently. Cause there were at least three drives by KC in that Texans game which were extended by ticky tack or straight up bad calls by the refs that weren't overturned and resulted in points. You take even one of those away, and you wonder if that six point difference might be enough to get Bills over the top.

Welp, we ended up with the most predictable outcome. A blowout of the Cinderella Commanders, and a Mahomes magic squeaker to completely demoralize the already heartbroken Bills fanbase.

I do think this time around the Eagles will take care of business in the Super Bowl. Just my gut feeling.

We got the most predictable, most boring, outcome. Now its whether you cheer for KC making history, or cheer for Eagles playing spoiler.

It all kinda played out like I expected though. The Eagles are a super roster, and the talent divide between the two teams became increasingly more striking as the game went along. Daniels did all he could to keep the game close, and they were well in it right until late in the 3rd quarter thanks to him, but a few big mistakes and then the Eagles started to pull away, and eventually the Commanders just didn't have the horses to catch back up.

Meanwhile, again, it felt like KC were outplayed by their opponents, but four or five ticky tack or just straight up incorrect calls went in their favour, turned into points, and those points ended up being the difference in the end.

You would expect the Eagles to utterly blow KC out of the water, but if KC are getting a free 14 points ever game, while the refs kill their opponent's drives even though they clearly converted, I sorta don't know how any opponent wins.

@Pizzamorg Yeah, for all the parity in the NFL, there seems to be a lot of the same ol’ matchups in the end.

Saw this crazy stat:
Teams with 4+ TD and 0 turnovers are 21-2 in the playoffs since 2020

The two losses:
Bills at Chiefs, 2024 AFC Championship Bills at Chiefs, 2021 Divisional Round

What do you think the Bills should do? At some point you have to think they are tempted to blow the team up and do a reboot. They did some changes this last offseason, but this is getting to be ridiculous how they keep falling short. Controversial officiating aside, I don’t know another team that has been so close so many times and just seem to be jinxed. Josh Allen is on the verge of joining the Dan Marino, Tony Romo, Jim Kelly, Drew Bledsoe club of underachievers. He’ll be 29 next year and there’s a stat out there about hardly any QB ever gets to their first Super Bowl after age 30. Once they turn 30, they are who they are at that point.

The NFL really wanted the SwiftBowl, then? And, I refuse to say the manufactured phrase, KC's three titles in a row. 😛

It doesn't take a genius to know that a dynasty and stories of legends and records sell better than regular match ups. But it sounds like they have carefully made sure KC get there by giving a helping hand where possible.

Is there a reason to take the sport seriously any more? 😂 bare in mind I've not seen it, just going off what you've all been saying, but I trust you haven't been exaggerating. Because, in closely contested games, all that really seperates teams is foul calls and the momentum gained and lost from them, or individual f*** ups by the ball handler. And that really is about it 😅

Kind of makes it feel a bit trivial. You either get blow outs when the talent gap is obvious, or whoever is favoured by the league or refs on that occasion, barring huge player errors.

Yeah it is funny @Th3solution cause as Brady leaves the AFC, a collective sigh of relief must have been heard around the conference. Only for in that same time, not just one, but multiple QBs all popped up in that conference that would each be very best of their own respective era if they each existed in a vacuum, except they all exist on top of one other. This means by the very nature of the playoff design, there can only be one, and so they are destined to just keep running into each other and eliminating each other forever. I guess you could argue that if this NFL parity thing is real, they should be handing the baton to each other every year, and they do at least in the early rounds, but somehow 9 times out of 10 it is somehow the Chiefs left standing. I think the Bengals got by them once, only to lose in the SB anyway, so massive wasted opportunity for them as that might not happen for another decade.

@Ravix I used to think that the NBA had the biggest referee conspiracy issue because the foul calling is so inconsistent and there’s a clear “star treatment” for the select few who seem to always get the phantom calls. But the more I watch, the more I wonder if the NFL refereeing is the more egregious. You could probably call pass interference and holding on 90% of the plays, but an ill timed holding of PI call can completely swing a game. Having watched many teams lose in a controversial call has definitely made me jaded.

That said, I think the KC ref conspiracy stuff is probably overblown. There’s something of a witch hunt going on because everyone is sick of seeing them win. In honestly the missed calls are probably on par with the rest of the league. Dynasties do sell, as do the new audience brought by Taylor Swift, but Mahomes is absolutely unflappable. And I can’t imagine getting a large market team like an LA team, a Chicago team, or NY team to the Super Bowl wouldn’t set the world ablaze with revenue.

@Pizzamorg It has to be frustrating for these guys.

Nevertheless, hope springs eternal as every team feels like they have a chance next year after seeing teams like Washington and Houston turn it around so quickly.

@Th3solution the NBA does have a problem, the refs don't consider JT and JB stars so when they drive to the hoop and get smacked nothing happens. Which is, partly, why I think sometimes they give up trying to do it, because a drive and getting fouled and not scoring multiple times is kind of demoralising, and makes it a lower percentage move than it should be 😂

There was one moment this season vs Toronto. Scottie Barns was being a clown and seal clapping at Tatum, who absolutely blew past him, went up for a monster dunk, got slapped on the arm and missed the dunk... no fouls, play on, let them break out.

It doesn't take much to understand the psychology of why Toronto made that foul, they were stopping an all time highlight of embarrassing nature being made on them. But for the refs to not call the foul? Like, you could shut your eyes and call a foul if the dunk was missed in that situation, and 99% of the time you know it'd be right, and if not then the defending team can still challenge it. But to no call, it defies logic.

Star player misses blow by dunk, maybe, just maybe, there's a reason they missed the dunk 🙄

Would have been such a cool highlight if they hadn't fouled, so I'm still salty.

But, yeah, yhe NFL 😂 I don't really think it's fixed, probably more just refs are more likely to be swayed subconsciously by a narrative that can't be denied. KC and Mahomes are a modern dynasty and living sensation, so the desire to see the foul or turn a blind eye is kind of part of that, and is hard to go against.

The problem with NFL officiating is just how antiquated their tool kit is. They have microchips that can go inside jerseys to track all sorts of data on players, to help design plays and all sorts. Plus there are probably like a million other data tags, drone cameras, and another thousand pieces of active pieces of tech processing and capturing a game.

Yet when it comes down to a vital play call, a catch, a conversion, whatever. The refs use an eye test, they use some flag thing on a chain, shrug their shoulders and make a call. They tell us these higher power being up stairs also takes a look at the replay too and feeds a decision down to them, but I feel like this is often said just to shut people up, because the broadcast will seconds later find 12 different angles that show the call was wrong. Like it just feels so utterly absurd.

I get they don't want to slow the game down, I get that we have to trust the refs on the ground to do their job (although even this is weird, cause I am pretty sure no NFL ref is full time, they have other jobs like a billion dollar industry and we can't have full time refs?!) but I don't care about slowing the game down, I care about the calls being right. I care about games coming down to the people on the field, not down to people in black and white squinting into a pile and just deciding the fate of a team's season.

Simply using stone age technology to decide these vital, game swinging, moments where the tech exists to solve this, is actively being used elsewhere and quite often proves the refs using some sticks and rocks to make the decision got it wrong. It is like how can conspiracy theorists not look at this like its a farce.

Weirdest and or biggest trade in NBA history totally out of nowhere?

Which team is the stupidest, LA or Dallas? Probably Dallas, right? Like, LA are not going to win anything anyway, so it doesn't matter if Luka can't defend, but he will still be an MVP type superstar in a big market.

But Dallas, it feels like they made the worst trade possible for the talent they shipped.

Why would they just deal with LA for an injury prone player and one pick? 👀

Crazy stuff.

But then for LA do we think LeBron is happy? Probably not 🤷‍♂️ this story could last years

@Ravix Yeah, dude this is crazy. I feel like there’s more background to the story that we don’t know, and probably never will.
Honestly, Luka’s ‘calf strain’ seems so unusually severe. What kind of calf strain that occurs on a totally routine non-contact play takes 6 weeks to get better? Is there some catastrophic health concern that the Mavs are trying to avoid paying top dollar for? Luka is due a new contract at the end of the season and is eligible for a super max deal worth over $300 million. I have a feeling they think this year’s injury riddled season is the beginning of more to come, maybe? On the other hand, AD isn’t like the picture of health himself. And at nearly 33 yr old he’s on the downhill part of his career, whereas Luka should be peaking over the next 5.

As far as I know Luka is a good citizen and a decent locker room guy. His biggest fault (outside of recent injuries) is the whining to the refs he’s known for. But maybe there’s skeletons in the closet there and I wonder if they will come out.

Another possibility is if this is some kind of 4D chess move, but I doubt that. Like the long term plan is flipping these players and the pick along with someone else for maybe a bigger fish. Again, doubtful.

Regardless, I think the Lakers and Mavs can probably flush this season. For each team to adjust to having new superstars and get into a good groove to make noise in the playoffs is unlikely. Both teams should make the play-in tournament, I would think, but there’s no telling. I honestly wouldn’t be surprised if they both completely miss the playoffs. Nevertheless, this offseason is going to be nuts — expect to e Lakers to attract some great free agents who want to play with Luka and LeBron. A new LA dynasty might be in the making.

@Th3solution yeah, I'm not sure how American sports works with trades and health. In europeam sports deals are agreed, but nothing really happens until there is a medical that is passed. In the US it just seems like players get moved at random regardless. Do teams have to declare what they find in scans and tests, or is it really just pot luck and teams can withhold damning information, or was Luka checked by LA before the trade? Do proposed teams even have access in that way?

Talent wise you'd think Luka is a monumental signing for any team, bar the odd few cases. So why don't Dallas they deal for more picks, or more players?

I've heard it mentioned that the GM is friends with AD as he was at Nike and thats why they made this trade, which would be a totally dumb reason as an organisation, so it can't be true. But even so, surely if AD is the target, you can get that deal with more value for Luka.

Both will probably win lots of games for their new teams, but it just seems like there must be so much more to it, like you say.

Now, if LA can get a couple of big men and defensive dogs to support Luka, who knows. And the potential free agents will be looking LA's way. But if Luka is broken in any way it hardly matters.

I haven't really heard anything about Luka's time out, but has it been noted as strange? Has there been no leaks or rumours surrounding him wanting to move away?

It was mentioned the GM of the Mavs trade history has been quite... bad. Grant Williams in, lots of talent let go as a few examples (was Brunson at Dallas? 😬) I can't remember the exact deals, but a lot that have hurt them, despite getting to the finals.

@Ravix In the American leagues, at least as far as I know in the NBA and NFL which is what I tend to follow most, there is a medical clearance that the teams medical staff do before the deal is final. I believe that the deals are contingent upon that. As far as disclosure beforehand, I suspect that yes, there’s behind the scenes exchanges of medical information. I’m not sure how regulated that is as far as if things are attempted to be hidden, but I think it should all come out in an evaluation. Honestly, once a deal is made public, I can’t remember a time when it was stopped due to a player failing a physical, although I’m sure it theoretically can happen. In other words if there is something chronic with Luka’s health, LA certainly knows the risk right now, and vice versa with A.D. and Dallas.

As for any prior leaks or rumors of Luka being moved, absolutely none. Neither from him wanting to leave or the team wanting to move him. This literally came out of nowhere and all the sports analysts are dumbfounded.

As far as the Mavs GM, yeah, I don’t know — last year he was being praised for turning the roster around at the middle of the year when he went and got PJ Washington and Gafford and it all seemed to click and they went on their run at the end of the season. He does seem to have an eye for talent and what pieces go together well. Perhaps he’s looking at teams like Boston and Cleveland and feeling that, like you call it, “hero ball” is just not the way to win a championship. We had the discussion before and I hold to the fact that the big champions have usually had an alpha, but it might be antiquated thinking and players like Luka who demand the ball so much are a long term liability, especially when they don’t play consistent defense. Regardless, all the sports “experts” and “analysts” are calling this a colossal mistake of historic proportions by the Mavs and even “franchise management malpractice” was how I think it was termed my one writer.

The only way that the GM is going to save face is if AD clicks better with Kyrie and co. and they go on to win a championship, or if the Lakers fall apart when Luka goes down the road to become the next Zion Williamson and keeps the franchise stuck in the mud because all the money is there sitting injured on the bench for most of the season.

@Th3solution it kind of makes me want to root for the A.D and mavs side of the trade more reading that, to be honest. If every writer has declared it a mistake. And I do agree with the current sentiment that a team is now better than a star. The value still seems low, however, so part of it must be something very A.D or LA specific. Which is a big risk when shipping out your MVP candidate. If they'd shopped around and still decided on LA, fair enough. But from the outside it seems like they didn't ask for fear that it'd be obvious which move made more sense as they would certainly be offered much more from other teams, but they still wanted A.D, so that negates the "but you were offered this" debate down the line. I don't think they will be allowed to sweep it under the rug if it does fail though, it's too big a story.

Speaking of money left on the bench...

Philadelphia. What is going on there. Their injury list last night was quite the expensive one. Part of the cause of this? PG3 has a sore pinky, and I assume Embiid is erm tired?

Boston tried their hardest to let them rest of the team that bothers to turn up for games to win, in what was probably the worst performance of the year, until the very end of the third and entire fourth quarter, which was quite literally insane.

It was that bad I was typing my comments on here whilst watching on a slight delay instead of actually watching it, until it wasn't and the 26 point comeback (which we desperately needed to prove we could execute this year) happened.

Phili though, is it over? Do they tank to make sure they keep their pick away from OKC? Are they totally buggered having to keep that much of their cap space on the bench all year with Embiid and PG3?

What of poor Tyreese Maxey? He deserves a proper team, and an all star pick. Do people not care about him anymore as he tries to singlehandedly make Phili relevant?

@Ravix I think I saw somewhere that the GM admitted that he didn’t shop around to other teams because he knew that would increase the chance of word getting out that they were looking to move Luka, which would have injured team culture… which seems like a short-sided approach since no doubt team and fan ‘culture’ has taken a huge hit regardless. He did say that he knows many teams were clearing cap space to make a run at Luka next year when he would become eligible to opt-out of his contract, so that factored into doing this now to get ahead of that possibility. Again; weird logic because Luka was happy in Dallas, by all accounts and there wasn’t an indication he’d opt-out. But maybe that’s all part of the unknown info behind the curtain.

But yeah, outside of New Orleans and the Zion experiment, Phili is becoming another train wreck of a franchise with a lot of dead money sitting in injured players. (With the Clippers and Kawhi being another consolation prize in that category). And I do feel sorry for Maxey, since he’s just trying to carry that team and it’s just crazy how Embiid has fallen off the face of the earth. George has a history of being unreliable from a health perspective. I think that franchises must be starting to look at the health issue more and more. The problem is, that’s not always predictable.

If I were Phili, I would probably try to make one last run at it the second half of the season, since they are formidable if those two star players get healthy and all you need is just to get into the tournament and be playing at a high level at the right time. But if another month goes by with no turnaround, then it’s probably time to tank.

On a side note, San Antonio quietly inches their way to relevance again with their move to grab De’Aaron Fox. He’s an underrated player, and can compliment Wemby quite well. Not sure if they have enough time to get the chemistry right by the playoffs, but they may be the team in the West to surprise some people.