Topic: The physical media civil war we cannot afford to have

The physical disc topic hasn’t been slowing down yet, and doesn’t appear to be anytime soon. However I want to discuss a trend I’ve been noticing in comment sections. People who should be on the same side taking their anger out on each other, because what they’re fighting for is contradictory.

What I’m referring to are the people who are saying “bring back discs” and the people who are saying “improve digital rights”. Because although they seem to be mostly aligned (as they should) there are some contradictions that have resulted in backlash towards the wrong people.

A statement that I’ve been hearing repeatedly is the idea that “We’re fighting the wrong battle. Stop saying bring back discs, and start protesting for more digital ownership rights.” The problem with that approach is that it’s alienating people who genuinely want to keep their discs. Hardcore collectors like myself who don’t like digital games, end of.

And what this has resulted in is people bickering about “give up” “no we’re not giving up” and it’s not good for anyone. Personally, if feel we should be fighting for our physical discs AND improved digital ownership rights.

All I’m saying is that if you want to argue these cases, don’t try and say things like “the disc fight is already lost,” because that’s implying that ownership is the main motivator for physical buyers to be physical buyers, which isn’t necessarily the case.

Let’s keep our arguing with Sony, not with each other.

@ShadowRJ We can't have that because there are people who fight in the name of big corporations like Sony. Yes, I said fight and not support. I do not know what is inside such peoples minds to be honest. Maybe they are trolls that like to argue, I saw few of those in EVERY "discs" article here.

The opinions that are thrown around are wild:

• "I did not buy physical in 10 years, therefore I do not care"
• "Digital is the future, whether you like it or not"
• "You are in the loud minority, therefore your opinions does not matter"

Blind support for big corporations that just want to maximize their profits instead of improving the rights of the customers that they are nothing without.

And also the whole “We’re fighting the wrong battle. Stop saying bring back discs, and start protesting for more digital ownership rights.” is fallacy as the same people saying that are the ones that gobble up anything just for the sake of it and move on to the next one.

I actually didn't realise until Sony announced the end of physical disks that the creation of all physical games went through them in their factories. It would be nice if there was a way for boutique game sellers to create their own disks but this may not be feasible for smaller companies.

Anyway, I agree with the above. There are several issues at play here and people are more passionate about some of them than others.

1. No more physical games (this is my biggest issue)
2. Sony having full control over pricing
3. Digital ownership
4. The potential for games to be removed from your library due to expired licences etc

I'm sure there are more issues that I just haven't thought of right now.

If you have a problem with any of the above, then we're on the same side really even if you are a person that purchases games digitally. This decision by Sony to end physical games has a lot more implications than simply no more disks.

@ShadowRJ Kind of paradoxical thread to be honest. You want people to basically not argue you, but you try to achieve that by arguing them. I understand you believe you're opinion is the right one and can argue as much, but others believe their viewpoint might be the right one too. "Stop arguing and agree with me" has never worked on the internet and I don't expect that to start now.

In my opinion there is no fight here. We're here on these forums for the sake of enjoyment and exchanging ideas.

What we can do: buy physical media. In 2021 Sony was going to close the PS3 and Vita stores. People rushed to these stores and massively bought these games, resulting in a course correction on Sony's end. That's what you should encourage.

I think for some people they are a bit miffed that Sony are scrapping physical media, but after processing it they are quickly able to accept and move on with their lives, and probably begrudge all of the daily articles and commentary.

I don't think that's a difficult concept for someone to understand, whether it's the latest GTA6 or the World Cup, when you're not bothered it just becomes kind of annoying knowing you'll need to hear about it daily for the next several months... or years. Some people respond by taking a quiet step back from the conversation, but the annoyance can build into resentment and others may end up digging in just as heavily themselves in response.

I'm somewhere in the step back category, but I'm frustrated that "my space" looks to be dominated by this conversation for the foreseeable future. I just have things that are way more important going on in my life, and if I was going to commit so much energy to something I'd probably choose a different cause.

Regardless, I am still aware of that initial small feeling of loss but I want to empower myself to move past it since I know that it doesn't matter to me in the scheme of things - instead I am being constantly reminded of it, and that creates a small amount of doubt, tension... and ultimately resentment.

I understand why people are upset, but I also understand why constant discussion of the issue starts irritating people who have already accepted it.

@kyleforrester87 this.

And I don't mind that people are mad. I do mind that there is yet another culture war bubbling, and in these things it is usually the bad-actors that take over and drive most of it, and people with genuine views on either side get dragged into an endless argument with people they mostly agree with for absolutely no reason and no benefit to each other or themselves (time-outs should be mandatory for all our sanity) So the easier option for most is to step back from the discourse, but that can lead to frustration as the discourse won't step back from them and seems to actively be pushed into their faces. And all of a sudden everyone becomes collateral damage in comments sections.

I'll probably stop making jokes about it, myself, but only because I don't want the genuine people to think i'm talking about them as I only ever mean to joke about genuine trolls and I can come across as quite course sometimes. I do want the bad-actors to be more self-aware though (again, mostly the people spamming hate and misinformation online, not people that care in a rational way) but they don't tend to do that, and the more of them there are, the more I do want to poke them. It is a problem I have 😅

Just for reference to anyone that reads my nonsense (it's your fault for reading it 😛) I actually bought a disc drive and some physical games from a retailer this week. And I will quietly support the cause that way, even as a mostly digital game owner who can accept Sony has objective reasons that aren't actually evil for doing this. I still do not want any physical media to ever stop completely. But yeah... very much tired of the many culture wars and laughing at it all is usually a good way to get by 🙃🙂🙃🙂🙃🙂🙃

Maybe a more positive campaign would be if everyone goes and buys a physical game, or a few, and posts about that online. A positive campaign about actively buying the things you want may be nicer to read online than arguments that get nowhere, and it may gain more support from normal people who can smile and say "yes, physical media is good, isn't it" but i'm not sure a certain subset of folk (again, mostly on social media, not people here) do want to do anything positive, so again, kind of a moot point.

@Ravix I think not joking about it is a smart idea. That's when people get emotional, sensetive, and lash out.

Looking back at The Last of Us Part Two backlash, a big reason as to why that went so badly is because there was no division between people who had problems with the game and biggots (at least that's what it felt like), and that caused a lot of anger from people who had genuine problems with it (like with every other game ever) and that made discussing the game miserable, even to this day.

"You will own nothing and be happy." - WEF

I think what went most badly were the bigots. And I guess not enough people speaking out against them. I remember taking a step back from this site, because it effected my general mood. As a non-straight person with a close trans friend, I couldn't care less about whether it was fun or not discussing the game.

@Herculean sorry to hear that, friend. People can be real jerks at times.

From my experience with discussing The Last of Us Part II, it appeared that there was this effort to dismiss any and all criticism of the game, even from critics who otherwise liked the game.

That caused SOME fans to start crying out stuff like “the only people who don’t think TLOU2 is perfect are bigots” which of course angered people who had genuine faults with the game, and that I believe was the main cause of people not arguing back on the bigots as much as they should’ve. Arguing against the bigots means agreeing with the zealots.

Thankfully I’ve never encountered any of the bigots, but I’ve encountered way too many zealots. The type of people who downvoted Reddit comments I made, because I dared make statements like “TLOU1 is a more consistent game than 2, but 2 has higher highs” or for making the outrageous claim that I thought Crash Team Racing was the second best Naughty Dog game, behind only Crash 2.

@Herculean What happened with the Last of Us 2? I only played the first one for about one-hour, it was a very heavy game. I do plan on giving it another try eventually. I ask because you said you actually took time away from here, so it must have been significant enough to affect your mood in such a way.

@ShadowRJ I don't really like your use of the word "effort" in this context.

We live in a world in which a trans friend I have had to give up on her dream job, because she can't enter the US anymore - the country where The Last of Us Part II was made for crying out loud. Transgenders were banned from the army too. An actual effort is being made to remove them from public life altogether.

Something similar is happening in the UK. Some stupid millionaire using her money to fund anti-transgender organizations. In the last few years transgender laws in the UK have become more restrictive. And as a result getting the right care has become more difficult for these people. A clear effort is being made to prevent these people to live their life the way they want.

Those are agenda's that are being pushed. Those are efforts with intentions behind them to restrict and silence those people. You being told by someone online to not criticize a game is not an effort.

I'd also like to go back to the start of this whole thing. Because I think an effort was made to steer the discourse of The Last of Us Part II. But I think it happened a little different from what you portrayed.

The toxicity really didn't start with defenders of the game. the discourse was already toxic before the game released. Based on the leaks and trailers the game was already hard under attack for just featuring women, lesbians and transgenders. Discussion got so heated that both sides started polarizing leaving no room for normal discourse. It all started with sexists, not the other way around.

@Herculean Fair enough, I'll accept that "effort" was a poor word choice.

And you're also probably right in regards with how it all started. I'm seeing all sorts of "woke propaganda" comments targeted towards Intergalactic, simply because it features a woman with short hair.

I think the toxicity of TLOU2's discussion largely rests on when you got into it, and from what angle. I got into it when the game was already released, and I saw some of my favourite YouTubers get criticised by people who could not comprehend a game getting any criticism (something every game gets).

You on the otherhand entered it via the vile, discusting discourse started by biggots. Put all of these different people in a room together, each with their own backgrounds, complaints, causes etc, and we were left with a hostile and toxic discussion.

@ShadowRJ Thanks for the civil reply by the way. I doubted whether to reply at all, because anything TLOU can get toxic so fast and you seem like such a good person. My comment wasn't meant to berate you but I can see how you could have interpreted like that. So sorry if I worded that poorly.

Back to the topic at hand I'm trying to think of whether I should now start buying more games as physical discs or not. I like to make a stand by going full physical until it dies out. But all the same it feels like I'm only hurting myself, because it means I might not be able to play those games on the next system. It's a lose lose situation for us as consumers!