Topic: PlayStation 5 --OT--

@Jaz007 Maybe I worded it poorly (I have been working long hours and feel like my brain has turned to oatmeal) but I don’t discount that my PS4 and it’s games have numerous patches and updates constantly, even more so than the PS3 and it’s games, and I don’t discount that PS3 had online gaming and cloud saving and a similar interface. What I meant was, since I usually spend several hours a week on my PS4, those updates are constantly being done, and game patches are constantly being downloaded when I boot up. Heck, sometimes I have to wait a couple hours to play even games I’m actively playing daily, which is fairly annoying in and of itself. Now, my poor little PS3 gets turned on so rarely, the last few times I have booted it up it has large mandatory firmware updates and then trying to download the individual game I want, or if it’s putting in a disc then it has another long wait while patches download. And then, for some strange reason, every single message I have ever received in the last few months pops up in the inbox there, even though I have already read the messages on my PS4 or Vita, so I feel inclined to clean out the inbox (I know, probably unnecessary but just a touch of OCD there). Not to mention, the DS3 controllers are all dead and need to be recharged, so I have to plug them in which is a minor annoyance...
Anyway, so you get what I’m saying and the point I was trying to make is that it’s just enough of a barrier to re-entry to just put me off from even trying to use the last gen console. I have to invest a bunch of start up time and effort whereas I can just sit down and jump straight into something from my enormous PS4 backlog. If my PS4, which is already updated, has the UI organized the way I like it, has whatever cool or cute little theme I’m currently in the mood for, and runs faster in general and has a better pad and aesthetic, if it could play my PS3 games, then I might just actually go back and finish FFXIII-2 or Puppeteer, or play the Mass Effect games again or Red Dead Redemption. But as it is, I just can’t be stuffed to go through all the PS3 start up efforts again. The first year or two after getting my launch PS4 I did use my PS3 periodically, but now it literally hasn’t been turned on in over 6 months.
I hope that clears up my sentiment. And I think I may just be in the minority here, as I know a lot of people on here are perfectly satisfied to boot up the old console, but I find it slightly cumbersome. Not impossible, but cumbersome. And I must not be totally alone, because someone out there is paying for PSNow so they can play older games on their PS4.

And on the subject of online dependence, it is true that God of War and many of PS4’s prominent titles are single player experiences, but it’s actually remarkable how even the single player games more and more depend on online connection to get the full experience. I think it’s been said, but I can play Detroit: Become Human offline, but it’s much more fun to see how my choices compare with the rest of the world and with my friends stats. I think Shadow of the Tomb Raider has some kind of similar function, if I recall. Heck, Hitman and Hitman 2 supposedly can’t even be played without an online connection because of some ridiculous cloud based save or some such nonsense. Many single player games have worked in some kind of dependence of online connectivity to have the full experience. (Soulsborne games with their asynchronous messages and pvp, Uncharted multi-player, Red Dead/GTA Online, GT Sport, Gravity Rush 2 treasure hunts and pic sharing, Persona 5 with its online community comparisons of how time is spent, etc, etc). It’s almost getting to the point where games like GoW, Spider-Man, and HZD are the minority of there is not some little online hook included.

...[looks at the thread title]...But to bring it back around to PS5, I would favor a couple different SKUs where a higher priced model has BC and a disc drive and then a lower priced one may not have a disc drive or may not have BC for those who don’t want it.

Those PS5 launch games need to be mighty impressive to tempt a day one buy.
But considering how solid the PSVR line up was, maybe Sony will come well prepared.

@Th3solution Do you not have PS Plus?
And wow, i didn’t realize how stupid Hitman was. I looked it up and it’s possible, but apparently unlocks don’t carry over. That game deserves the lack of sales it has then.

@Jaz007 Oh yeah, I have Plus. Just renewed another year on the recent sale in fact. Although I very rarely do online multiplayer, I do like the other perks. Is there something I’m missing about my Plus benefits that relates to BC or the trend for consoles having to always be connected online?

@Th3solution Yee, the PS4 can auto-update in sleep mode with Plus, and you can have the PS3 turn itself on automatically at a time of day you set to check for updates and downloads (if you said from the computer to download a game on it maybe). That way it’s always upto date and will always be ready for you.

@Jaz007 oh - I’ve always wondered how that works when you request from a PC to download something. Might have to try that.

lol. The stream is brilliant. They're straight up trolling, they're showing the same old demo they've shown for years, the one with the moving platform and the lava floor.

Anyway, Dreams beta coming tomorrow!

@LieutenantFatman Good point. We can only guess but if Death Stranding was on PS5 that's reason enough for me to grab one. But other than that I'm not so sure.

The tech has come almost as far as I need it too. If we can have a better VR experience and 4k 60fps gaming on screen then I don't think I would ever need to upgrade again after the ps5.

PS5 - that will be a day one for me no matter what, hopefully it will be compatible with PS4 titles from the get go, with all the investment into live service games and all, makes no sense making you buy another version of the title.

So I personally expect PS5 to be announced next year and released March 2020. Word has it it was planned to release next year as well but the system level/OS/Backend stuff is a bit behind schedule. Sony is teasing something big next year so it makes sense. Switch proved March can work. It will sell out anyway so launch earlier to refine the supply chain and focus on software bundles for thr holiday.

And before someone says it'll hurt their Q4 2019 sales, Switch and Xbox One X wave hi.

@WebHead Switch and Xbox One X wave? As opposed to them being outsold now? What wave?

@WebHead Switch - yes but the Xbox One X launched November 2017 - around a year after the Pro and in time for the Christmas season.

I know its not 'essential' to release in time for Christmas - as the Switch proved but some of that was down to hardware/software not being ready to launch in time - the usual reason that consoles miss the pre-Christmas window.

I do find the public perception rather bizarre - Nov 2019 is too soon but Mar 2020 is OK - just 4 months, difference and likely to get most/all of the Nov 2019 games re-released for launch - we saw that with the PS4/XB1 too with games like Fifa, CoD, BF4, AC4:BF, Lego Marvel, Madden etc getting multiple releases for the old gen and then again for the different launch dates of the PS4 and XB1 versions.

Personally, I would prefer to buy a console before Christmas and buy the games once - not two generation versions of the same game. If I know the PS5 is launching in March, I think I would clear up my backlog instead of buying PS4 versions and get them in March with the PS5 instead...

@Jaz007 I meant as in say hi. What I mean is Scorpio(One X) and switch announcements didnt effect 2016 holiday sales for Xbox and Nintendo. Also tax return season i would say is probably an easier time to buy new hardware for many I would assume.

@BAMozzy
All is fair enough. We are just more or less wild guessing here. What do you think of Xbox next gen console then? Wouldn't it makes sense that what works for Sony also applies to Ms considering only the hardware perspective? So why 2020 or 2019? (I'm personally thinking the software matters a lot for choosing a launch date but whatever) Not that I'm interested in Xbox but both consoles obviously are important for an overall picture.
I think a new Xbox will launch next year as a streaming machine. That s some more food for thoughts.
Also the media seems to push the idea the Xbox is set to dominate next gen which is a bit silly a assumption at this stage, not to say a suspicious stance.

@JJ2 Personally I feel MS is in more desperate need to release a follow up - that's coming from someone who bought a Project Scorpio edition X on day 1 (and still own my original XB1 with Kinect as that's how it was sold at the time and an Gears 4 XB1s). All you have to do is look at how the 'base' console(s) are coping with the current games and you will see that of the big 2, the XB1 looks like it will be the first that games will be 'impossible' to run at a 'reasonable' visual settings, at least 720p and 30fps. That 'maybe' good enough for some that don't want to invest in 'new' hardware yet but realistically, this generation has held back game development and the XB1 is struggling more than PS4.

Of course it could depend on whether MS would be willing to allow 3rd party games to release on just the X - the X becoming the 'new' base console effectively as it has a lot of the next gen features you could expect. It could be the '4k/30' entry level console with the 'nextbox' being the new 'high' end 4k/60 console - higher average res, double the frame rate and maybe having 'higher' visual settings too. It makes more sense to do that. It maybe that some games won't run on the X but with the 'resources' it currently has, its possible that they could drop res down to 1080-1440p to get games working - especially if they also can be 30fps on X but are 60fps on Nextbox. Either way, the current Base hardware is much more in need of being replaced and can't really drop much more to get them running. You could I guess start offering CB rendering - 2x540p (or 960x1080) to 'fake HD' but realistically, its showing its age more so therefore MS are more in need. Sony have run away with this gen, MS's E32013 left a sour taste too - even though they back tracked very quickly and very few elements that people hated actually made it to release - the final issue, Kinect, was gone from bundles within 6 months too. It could be a good idea to end this generation sooner where as Sony may want to drag their 'heels' a bit more to milk their success.

I can understand why the Media may well be thinking that MS will dominate, the massive amount of Money that they have to throw at winning, as well as the acquisition/formation of 7 new studios in the last 6months or so and basically given them a 'blank cheque' to make whatever games they want and expected to add more studio's, the fact they have Cloud Computing with Azure, the fact that MS have stated they are 'prioritising' gaming to be as 'big' as any other aspect of MS - not just a little 'side project' - so much so that its become important to the 'heads' of MS - not the 'Xbox' division but MS - hence all the 'massive' injection of money into gaming - Its easy to understand why the Media are thinking that MS will dominate. Whether it will sell as many consoles is a different matter because Xbox isn't 'just' the console, its just their 'console' device for gaming with Xbox on PC's as well as Tablets and Mobiles too. I know some still see 'PC' as a 'separate' entity but they want to amalgamate ALL their Windows 10/MS customers into one big user base - the hardware is immaterial so if you prefer the PC structure, so be it, want a console MS will build you one... As long as you have an MS account, with an MS profile, you can sign in and play your games on any MS powered device - In theory, this could open up 3rd Party Consoles too from HP, Acer etc too much like you can buy a MS Surface or HP, Acer equivalent - the important aspect is the 'network' - your profile, your games library all linked and the hardware is just the 'means' on which you play but you are ALL part of the MS network - just like you are all part of the Playstation Nation and your profile is what allows you to play on PS4, PS3, Vita and soon PS5. Gone is the day where you bought a console and anyone could play any game, now its all linked to your profile and you 'need' a profile to play - even Physical these days. You can go to ANY PS4 anywhere and Sign in with your GT and have access to your Digital library and all your Trophies etc and that I see will be the future - except with MS, that includes PC's because they pretty much all have MS OS and could be Tablets/Mobiles with cloud computing as long as they are powered by MS OS just like their console...

Sony 'could' do something similar I guess with their next console - sign into your PSN account on a Sony Xperia Mobile or Sony Bravia TV and play any of your games - add to your Trophies and carry on Playing on the go via cloud computing /streaming to mobile but I do think MS has the infrastructure in place now and the resources to make it work. Again, it may mean that they don't sell as many consoles - but as far as user base and software sales go, they could 'dominate' - although fanboys will still quote console sales as being representative of users but as far as numbers of gamers active on MS servers playing games as a unified user base, MS could very easily dominate.

I wonder how much the PS5 release will affect PS4 sales. It’s not unheard-of for the last generation of consoles to outsell the new one in its first year. I very much doubt the people who are buying the PS4 slim is at this point in its life cycle of the same people who will be pre-ordering the PS5.

@BAMozzy

'Its easy to understand why the Media are thinking that MS will dominate.'
Actually no. You also say 'fanboys will quote console sales' but these media very much mean consoles sales. I agree that Ms is going for a market bigger than consoles but we r talking about consoles.
The thing everything is much of a big fog right now (regarding consoles) and its really too early to build castles in the sky. Ms learned the hard way In. 2013.
The fact is Ms has never dominated the console (hardware) space so it's somehow bold to throw that sort of projection.
What I meant to ask you is if you think new gen Xbox would launch at the same time as PS5 since you think it could be next year apparently.

@Ryall The PS1 was made right up until less than a year before the PS3 launched and the PS2 right up until less than a year before the PS4. The PS3 has already ended in terms of manufacturing but it is still supported. This shows that Sony won't immediately abandon the PS4 when the PS5 launches and no doubt will get games launching on it too for at least a year or two. Obviously the amount of games releasing dropped as it became more difficult and less cost effective to port down but there is always a transitional period with Sony consoles. The PS4 could get a sizeable drop in price too and people may buy for the plethora of games it already has.

@JJ2 Console sales is just one aspect of 'domination' and games, game sales etc is another. MS dominating the market isn't just in terms of console sales...

Whether MS will release at the same time or not really depends on their plans moving forward. I do think they may need to release around Nov 2019 if they don't allow the X to receive some 'unique' software or become the 'new' base level for the near future. The fact that the base is virtually on its last legs from a hardware perspective, without using CB rendering to deliver HD quality - assuming that's the 'minimum' acceptable - they could drop below 720p I guess and we know first party games can be tailored to the hardware. Again its dependent on what games are in development and whether they are specifically looking at the XB1 as the lowest spec to build for or looking more to advancing games and hoping they can scale it down to Base hardware for sales. The fact that Sony have more in reserve so to speak does mean they could drop the resolution a bit more to extract more performance to run games where as Xbox seems at its limit - unless it drops below HD - so therefore I think MS would have to release before or at the latest, at the same time as Sony because the Base XB1 is struggling more to deliver acceptable gaming.

It does depend on what MS want to do with the X. They could announce a 'new' console and in the interim, allow some games to release just on the X if they state its the 'new' base hardware for the next generation and the 'new' console coming is the 'new' enhanced Xbox - like I said, the X has a LOT of next gen features so could become the 'low spec' or entry level nextbox. That could buy them time to release late 2020 with much higher specs. It does kind of do away with the traditional 'generation' format that Sony are adhering too and would extend the X's life span. Instead of releasing a new generation every 5/6yrs, MS just release a iterative upgrade every 3/4yrs, phasing out the oldest (6-8yr old hardware), with the 3-4yr old high end becoming the 'base' for 3-4yrs at the tail end of its life and the 'newest' being the high end. If Sony follow the same format as PS4, you could still get a 'iterative Pro' console after 3-4yrs, but as soon as the next console arrives, both the base and Pro will be phased out together so the Pro essentially has a much shorter life. Again, it really depends on what MS plan to do. If they are sticking to generations, then they need to replace the XB1 sooner but they could just have the X for a year and then bring out a iterative 'Next' box as the 'iterative high end Xbox.

Its more complicated because of comments made prior to the X release - the fact MS wanted to move away from generational releases and be more like 'PC's' that get iterative upgrades and the weakest CPU/GPU's get phased out. You don't see games locked to GTX 9 series and the new Generation GTX10 series and now GTX20 series GPU's getting their own games. It just depends on what that means to MS of course and whether or not they do opt to go 'generational' or more 'iterative'. That's why I am unsure exactly what MS will do but they do need to replace the Base hardware sooner rather than later but whether they allow the X to buy them time or not, we will see.

@BAMozzy
There's supposed to be at least two new xbox consoles being new gen and that seems to contradict what Phil was saying before, supposedly there wouldn't be new gen but some mythical forward comp. Anyway.
Seems the right way to go for Ms. They will have a very cheap new console for streaming and then a mid and a prime console. Phil said recently they are conceived with that streaming ability in mind.
AMD said Sony and Ms have each their own 'special sauce' to sell their consoles. It's going to be nteresting to see the different approach.