Topic: PlayStation 5 --OT--

@Kidfried PS5 can be a Tamagotchi spin-off, as long as it has the next Ueda game, I'll get it.

I could see them having backwards compatibility just to keep all the momentum. Anything that Xbox can't boast over them will help. I don't MS will make a laughing stock of themselves again, so Sony might go a little extra to have bragging rights and look better.

The only real thing I want is to have the normal PlayStation experience I don't want to feel like vr is the main selling point on the ps5 it has to be a beast of a console without it also. Personally I don't see anything wrong with vr but the vast majority of gamers don't buy into it it's still and expensive prospect.

@Tirus666 Yeah if they force you to buy it as part of the console, like MS did with Kinect, I will have serious reservations about which console to go for.

With the new Zen 2 leaks (prices and clocks), I'm 100% sure that the PS5 will easily run 4K/60. Probably using a custom version of the Ryzen 5 3600GX or Ryzen 5 1600.

@BAMozzy of course I can't speak for everyone, but backwards compatibility is a big reason I got an Xbox One and it's one of the main reasons I use it now. I find it brilliant that I can still play older games such as Fight Night Champion, GTA IV, Red Dead Redemption, Conker: Live and Reloaded among many others.

It's highly likely I'm gonna get a PS5 regardless (unless it's revealed that Bethesda are making it or something..) so I guess I'm not really the target audience, but BC is something that would make me buy a PS5 at launch or closer to launch than I otherwise might have.

@Vegetto
It's interesting but I think Sony was reported to be working on the first generation Zen even though that may have just been temporary. We ll see but I'm guessing they need a compromise performace/price and what's available at the time.
There s an interesting interview of P Spencer maybe giving a hint of the difference there maybe between PS5 and the next Xbox. Considering AMD already hinted the two companies have their own special sauce and possibly different approach. Here s part of the interview credit to GNelva from twinfinite. :

'The thing that’s interesting for us as we roll forward, is we’re actually designing our next-gen silicon in such a way that it works great for playing games in the cloud, and also works very well for machine learning and other non-entertainment workloads. As a company like Microsoft, we can dual-purpose the silicon that we’re putting in.

We have a consumer use for that silicon, and we have enterprise use for those blades as well. It all in our space around driving down the cost to serve. Your cost to serve is made up by two things, how much was the hardware, and how much time does that hardware monetize.

So if we can monetize that hardware over more cycles in the 24 hours through game streaming and other things that need CPU and GPU in the cloud, we will drive down the cost to serve in our services. So the design as we move forward is done hand-in-hand with the Azure silicon team, and I think that creates a real competitive advantage.”

Spencer concluded by talking about the issue of latency while streaming games. He mentioned that he’s already streaming games while he’s on the road around the world, and the test servers for Project xCloud are still in Washington, but Azure has a global scale.'

https://twinfinite.net/2018/12/phil-spencer-buy-ea-next-gen/

Yeah, interesting to think in retrospect the flubs that Microsoft made. Probably the things that got them so behind early this gen were the “always online console” and the DRM not being able to share or trade a game controversy, which Sony just pounced on — they read the public opinion and then used MS’s missteps against them (with the promo showing the trading a game disc). But if you think about it, MS was being pretty forward thinking, and sure enough ... here we are now and consoles pretty much have to be always online because of cloud saving, constant updates and patches, and increasing use of multiplayer and other online functions. And the days of selling, trading, or lending games is radpidly coming to an end due to everyone moving to digital over physical. So as much as I hate to admit it, Microsoft was ahead of the curve actually. But the public crucified them for it.
As it relates to BC, I think there is the potential for a similar issue to occur — if one of the two come out next gen as saying their new console doesn’t have BC, then the lay gaming public might backlash if the competitor plays his cards right and capitalized on it. All this, despite the fact that by the middle and end of the generation, BC will be hardly ever used by the average player.
Anyway, I’m rambling a little, but you’re right — the first impressions of the console goes a long way to set up the entire generation. So I’m voting for BC if possible, even if it’s limited in some way, because despite the function being superfluous, the reality is that it will probably sell consoles just by virtue of the goodwill and selling people what they think they want, even if they won’t use it for very long.
I for one wish I had the ability to play PS3 in my PS4, despite that I have a PS3 that is hooked up in my bedroom. It basically functions as a fancy Blu-ray player for movies. I can’t be bothered to do all the updates required and get used to the UI and clean up all the notifications, all that garbage every time I turn it on. My PS4 gets used, updated, defragged, UI organized, etc, etc on a constant basis.

@Th3solution Patches are similar to last-gen honestly, it’s a bit worse, but if you think about it still happened a fair bit games needing them. I mean just extra stuff being added rather than fixed is more what’s really new.
Cloud saving is the same as it was on PS3. Not sure what’s changed there.
Digital has become much more popular yes, but physical stil has a huge market, and telling people they have no choice wouldn’t make them happy even if someone mostly bought digital I think.
Multiplayer has grown and not grown in some ways. Fortnite has come yes, but god of war also doesn’t get MP shoved in it now either.
I don’t think it’s chsnged as much as you (a general you) might think, and that MS would still get crucified for it.
I think half a generation is significant enough to be notable too. That’s a long time.
Also, the PS3 can auto-update, notifications be ignored (I’m not sure what notifications you talk about actually), and I’m not sure how scrolling over to “start game” takes much getting used to.

@BAMozzy Yeah, I'm always online, but some "freedoms" shouldn't be messed with. If my internet is gone for a few days or something, I shouldn't lose access to my PS4. It's something that has no practical need. There's no need for an always online requirement so it shouldn't be there. While some games might die without a patch, plenty don't either. It also means if the network goes down one day, then the console won't become useless. You'll still have it, and possibly all of the updates as well if you have big enough hard drive.
It's just a "big brother" thing that doesn't need to happen. I'm glad we have the use of the internet with our consoles for sure, but there's a point where it stops benefiting us and just becomes extra control for the manufacturer. That's the problem with always online.

@BAMozzy I wonder what will happen to the “free” PlayStation plus games when PlayStation plus ends?

@Ryall Hopefully Sony will just permanently give them to you for that console. It would be easier than the backlash they'd get for doing otherwise.

@Ryall Something Sony will have to decide. PS3 will be losing free games via PS+ anyway in a few months - March 2019 so we may get some idea then. Of course that won't mean that PS3 owners won't be able to access their existing games but we may get some information from Sony. The big test will be what Sony do when they turn off the online for PS3 as PS+ games require online access to determine whether you have a valid PS+ subscription and therefore a valid licence to play those games. You don't own PS+ games anyway and the licence to play them is conditional - conditional on you having a valid PS+ subscription. Without the internet or a valid PS+ subscription, you cannot play the games.

As I said, Sony have to decide what they do. They could very easily decide that you lose your PS+ games when they turn off the console - opt to refund people any existing PS+ months left. The effect is the same as if you yourself opted to cancel your PS+ and get a refund on any months you had left too - if you do that, any free games are 'lost' - lost in the sense you cannot access them any more. You are not paying PS+ to get 'free games' as such, but enabling you access to those games for a set duration - that duration being the time you are subscribed to PS+ which can run out and/or be renewed - not necessarily straight away either which will then grant you access to those games you had received before and again for the duration of the subscription. I know some may lose a LOT of games but those games were never really their games. You don't get access to Netflix series you may have watched or bookmarked to watch when your subscription runs out and Sony could opt to be the same with PS+.

In a gesture of goodwill, they could just upgrade the licences to full prior to switching off the PS3 so any games you have downloaded from PS+ remain playable - at least if they are offline playable. You obviously couldn't play some aspects that rely on online connections if the PS3 is not online any more. They don't have to though because those games were never yours anyway and relied on criteria to be met - such as be online and have a valid PS+ membership. Even if you have a valid PS+ membership, you don't have the online aspect so you can cancel PS+ (unless its required for PS4) and get any money refunded - which again would stop access anyway.

As I said, I know some people could be very angry by that, but you didn't buy the games and paid a subscription to access those games. You obviously still have access to any game you bought with PS+ discounts applied but the PS+ 'free' games were (and still are) never permanently free and yours anyway. If you only buy a years worth, the last month of 'free games are only accessible for a month (at most - depending on when PS+ runs out) where as others could well be accessible for 12months. If you continuously subscribe, those games may seem as good as permanently yours but the reality is, you are just extending the expiry date every time you renew or add to your PS+ subscription but the fact is, those games have an expiry date and that date could be determined by you - as in not resubscribing or cancelling PS+ - or by Sony by turning off Online connectivity to PS3. If you want to keep them 'permanently', you could buy them outright, buy a permanent licence and as most games are 'old' now, the price is likely to be a lot lower than the price it would have been to get these at the time they were offered.

That may sound harsh but I do think that is fair. As I said though, Sony could also go above and beyond and gift PS+ subscribers the full licence of these games - although you would still have to download any you may have deleted before the PS3 does get turned off because you can't download them after - and that includes any you may have actually bought digitally....

It could still be years before Sony do turn it off completely and they may wait until there is so few people playing that its 'dead' anyway.

@Jaz007 Maybe I worded it poorly (I have been working long hours and feel like my brain has turned to oatmeal) but I don’t discount that my PS4 and it’s games have numerous patches and updates constantly, even more so than the PS3 and it’s games, and I don’t discount that PS3 had online gaming and cloud saving and a similar interface. What I meant was, since I usually spend several hours a week on my PS4, those updates are constantly being done, and game patches are constantly being downloaded when I boot up. Heck, sometimes I have to wait a couple hours to play even games I’m actively playing daily, which is fairly annoying in and of itself. Now, my poor little PS3 gets turned on so rarely, the last few times I have booted it up it has large mandatory firmware updates and then trying to download the individual game I want, or if it’s putting in a disc then it has another long wait while patches download. And then, for some strange reason, every single message I have ever received in the last few months pops up in the inbox there, even though I have already read the messages on my PS4 or Vita, so I feel inclined to clean out the inbox (I know, probably unnecessary but just a touch of OCD there). Not to mention, the DS3 controllers are all dead and need to be recharged, so I have to plug them in which is a minor annoyance...
Anyway, so you get what I’m saying and the point I was trying to make is that it’s just enough of a barrier to re-entry to just put me off from even trying to use the last gen console. I have to invest a bunch of start up time and effort whereas I can just sit down and jump straight into something from my enormous PS4 backlog. If my PS4, which is already updated, has the UI organized the way I like it, has whatever cool or cute little theme I’m currently in the mood for, and runs faster in general and has a better pad and aesthetic, if it could play my PS3 games, then I might just actually go back and finish FFXIII-2 or Puppeteer, or play the Mass Effect games again or Red Dead Redemption. But as it is, I just can’t be stuffed to go through all the PS3 start up efforts again. The first year or two after getting my launch PS4 I did use my PS3 periodically, but now it literally hasn’t been turned on in over 6 months.
I hope that clears up my sentiment. And I think I may just be in the minority here, as I know a lot of people on here are perfectly satisfied to boot up the old console, but I find it slightly cumbersome. Not impossible, but cumbersome. And I must not be totally alone, because someone out there is paying for PSNow so they can play older games on their PS4.

And on the subject of online dependence, it is true that God of War and many of PS4’s prominent titles are single player experiences, but it’s actually remarkable how even the single player games more and more depend on online connection to get the full experience. I think it’s been said, but I can play Detroit: Become Human offline, but it’s much more fun to see how my choices compare with the rest of the world and with my friends stats. I think Shadow of the Tomb Raider has some kind of similar function, if I recall. Heck, Hitman and Hitman 2 supposedly can’t even be played without an online connection because of some ridiculous cloud based save or some such nonsense. Many single player games have worked in some kind of dependence of online connectivity to have the full experience. (Soulsborne games with their asynchronous messages and pvp, Uncharted multi-player, Red Dead/GTA Online, GT Sport, Gravity Rush 2 treasure hunts and pic sharing, Persona 5 with its online community comparisons of how time is spent, etc, etc). It’s almost getting to the point where games like GoW, Spider-Man, and HZD are the minority of there is not some little online hook included.

...[looks at the thread title]...But to bring it back around to PS5, I would favor a couple different SKUs where a higher priced model has BC and a disc drive and then a lower priced one may not have a disc drive or may not have BC for those who don’t want it.

Those PS5 launch games need to be mighty impressive to tempt a day one buy.
But considering how solid the PSVR line up was, maybe Sony will come well prepared.

@Th3solution Do you not have PS Plus?
And wow, i didn’t realize how stupid Hitman was. I looked it up and it’s possible, but apparently unlocks don’t carry over. That game deserves the lack of sales it has then.

@Jaz007 Oh yeah, I have Plus. Just renewed another year on the recent sale in fact. Although I very rarely do online multiplayer, I do like the other perks. Is there something I’m missing about my Plus benefits that relates to BC or the trend for consoles having to always be connected online?

@Th3solution Yee, the PS4 can auto-update in sleep mode with Plus, and you can have the PS3 turn itself on automatically at a time of day you set to check for updates and downloads (if you said from the computer to download a game on it maybe). That way it’s always upto date and will always be ready for you.