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Topic: PlayStation 5 --OT--

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JJ2

So I know this topic is about dead here for some reason. People dont like speculating about hardware.
Theres a point about BC I find needs clearing up though.
So last year J Ryan announced not only ps5 will be BC with ps4 but it will also be cross gen play which was hardly noticed at the time. What I'm wondering is if you play a ps4 game on ps5, then they will be cross gen by default right? Like you can play with your friends who still are on ps4.
What about cross gen games though? Can we assume they automatically are cross gen play?
I might get outriders on ps5 and play with my friend who gets outriders on ps4?
That's what I think but the recent article about Ubi shooter saying they plan for it to be cross gen play ( you can play on ps5 with people on ps4) makes me wonder if games need to be tweaked specially for it.
Or more likely it was misreporting?
Idk

Edited on by JJ2

The crowd, accepting this immediately, assumed the anti-Eurasian posters and banners everywhere were the result of acts of sabotage by agents of Goldstein and ripped them from the walls.

DonJorginho

PS5 Latest News/Rumours Rundown:

  • Godfall news coming really, really soon.
  • Giant Bomb March 3 leak
  • News hinted for this week by Koji Prod
  • Kojima himself hints March 3 news
  • AMD more or less confirm PS5 is using RDNA 2.0

And finally AMD talking about next-gen GPU’s on March 5 which should occur after Sony does their own announcement.

  • March 5: AMD Next-Gen GPU Conference

Edited on by DonJorginho

DonJorginho

BAMozzy

@JJ2 On Xbox, BC is cross gen so if you play a 360 game on XB1, you are potentially playing with others on 360 - if there are any still playing on that system. I can't say though if there are any dual release games that are also cross-gen but I don't think so. Few games released on both after the first couple of years and the initial releases were definitely not cross-gen. That affected games like CoD: Ghosts as those early adopters had much lower lobby sizes and games like Battlefield obviously offered much bigger battles - 32vs32 so couldn't have worked - at least not in that mode.

I don't know if you can take it as 'gospel' that ALL games releasing on both generations will be cross-gen or even cross-play despite the fact that it could happen with some. There is already a 'miss-match' in MP on consoles with the mid gen refreshes. Just because a game like Battlefield maybe listed as 60fps, it can be running at 40fps in the big game modes on a PS4 yet much closer to the 60fps target on a Pro.

I know consoles are 'supposed' to provide an 'even' playing field - although internet speeds, TV input Lag, distance from host/server etc do impact on that. Size of and distance from a display too can give you an advantage over another - make distant objects easier to see - resolution can help a bit here too by adding the detail - can't really see a face in 4 pixels but 16 pixels would. A Soldier in a green camo against green bushes etc would be difficult to see if the shape is too small to show the edge details and that 'blob' of a face wouldn't be recognisable as a Soldier but at higher resolution, those extra pixels will bring more recognisable shapes and details. Its not just resolution that the mid-gen consoles offered but also better, more consistent frame rates - in multi-player too. Obviously its not 30fps vs 60fps or even 120fps (or more), but it can be 50% better - 40fps vs 60fps for example.

Next gen will have a much more balanced build - a strong CPU with a strong GPU. Next gen will offer up to 120fps too and input lag is tied to frame rate. Even if your TV can't display 120fps content and drops every other frame, the game could still run at 120fps and get the best controller input lag.

People question why anyone would want to upgrade without any 'exclusive' content to play. It's not just visuals - higher resolutions, better lighting, better LoD's etc but better performance and feel. I love MANY games that have played at 30fps but 60fps feels better, more responsive. Not stuck in loading screens for as long (if at all with next gen) but in a MP cross-gen game - loading screens will still affect next gen systems whilst they wait for older gen systems to load in the map, the team-mates etc. I notice on Destiny if someone was playing on a base XB1 for example as I am loaded into the world before them and waiting on them to load into the environment.

DF have done some MP tests with games and those on lower spec machines have had to wait for buildings etc to drop in to the environment which are clearly there on the higher spec machine - PUBG is a classic example. The fact you can play games like Fortnite on a mobile at 30fps against gamers at 60fps (or more) with bigger screens and higher resolutions to see more distant objects easier, does make me think that we may well see more cross gen games with potentially bigger gaps than we see from mid-gen refreshes. I have wondered though whether you would see 'clans' in games like Destiny or CoD specifying what console you must have to join - like must have Gjallahorn - because it could affect their loading in, feel like they have to carry someone playing at 30fps etc. Its not just the fact the game is only running at 30fps but that it does affect input lag, response times etc and would be at a 'disadvantage' regardless of how good they are and could do better than a mediocre player that has the next gen console and the advantages that offer.

At the end of the day though, its not that different from the PC space - except with a console, you aren't likely to get any modders or hackers. It will be interesting to see what happens and whether or not some/all games will offer cross-gen. It may come down to the devs - they may not allow it because they don't want to cap 'next gen' versions to 30fps or put up with any repercussions of a vast difference in performance. They could say a game is 60fps on both but on last gen, its avg 30fps. Its like saying a game is 1080p but with DRS (Dynamic Resolution Scaling), its mostly ~850p and only hits 1080p when your character presses his nose up against a wall (no draw distance, little detail to draw etc). Of course if the game is capped to say 60fps but only runs around 30fps on last gen, that instability will be worse than capping it to 30fps and having that difference 'official'. It may be easier for devs and the gaming community to go without cross-gen for a 'sense' of fairness which is why I think it will probably be offered on a game by game basis rather than offered on ALL games as standard. As for playing Outriders on PS5 with friends who are on PS4, I think you may have to wait to see what happens. I wouldn't take it for granted that will be happening at all but until we know for sure, I wouldn't discount that possibility either.

As far as playing PS4 games on PS5, I can see them sharing the same servers and players. If the leaks are true, the PS5 looks like it will run like a base PS4 or PS4 Pro - depending on the game, so you may not get any 'improvements' on the way the games look or run. The leaks seem to indicate that the GPU will drop its speed down and even turn half off (like the Pro does) with games that were not Pro-enhanced. If you play a PS4 game on a PS5, if this leak is true, then the PS5 and the game is running just like a PS4/Pro anyway so no reason why they can't share the same servers and user base.

We will have to wait and see what happens, what devs want to do as I do expect them to have some say in whether cross-gen play will be offered in their games - even if its possible, doesn't mean they will either.

A pessimist is just an optimist with experience!

Why can't life be like gaming? Why can't I restart from an earlier checkpoint??

Feel free to add me but please send a message so I know where you know me from...

PSN: TaimeDowne

JJ2

@BAMozzy
First, thanks for reply it's an interesting question. However you mention a lot of different things like BC upgrades. 'If the leaks are true, the PS5 looks like it will run like a base PS4 or PS4 Pro -' yes its known I think that ps5 has a same approach as ps4 pro for BC and disable CU but also with a boost mode. Dont forget the SSD may boost the result a lot more.
I'm definitely talking about cross gen play though (in particular for new games releases) and competitive play maybe tricky for balancing I reckon For Outriders there s no problem and some weapons/powers can be overpowered.
I dont see any problem with one player having advantage of a better platform for this game.

Edited on by JJ2

The crowd, accepting this immediately, assumed the anti-Eurasian posters and banners everywhere were the result of acts of sabotage by agents of Goldstein and ripped them from the walls.

BAMozzy

@JJ2 If Sony do take that approach - ie little/no benefits, that would keep an relatively even playing field on PS4 BC games - however there is still some 'advantages' to playing on a Pro over a base PS4 in some games due to more stable and higher frame rates - you can have up to 50% higher frame rates in Battlefield in highly contested areas. SSD is most likely going to benefit loading times but you could still have to wait for those on PS4 to load in. On XB1X, the advantages are more pronounced with higher resolutions, basically locked frame rates and you do get better loading times too but you are still capped to the same 'maximum' frame rate.

The issues though could be even more pronounced on next gen vs current gen. Next gen could offer 60 or even up to 120fps gaming whilst the last gen versions may have to be capped to 30fps to run smoothly. As I said, higher frame rates offer advantages beyond just smoother gameplay because it also improves controller input lag too. Its one thing having a game that can hit 60fps but often runs at 45-50fps avg vs someone who is playing virtually locked at 60fps constantly and having some gaming at 30fps whilst others have 60fps or more. Not saying that it can't happen but whether or not devs will want that or not, I don't know. If they do, then whether or not the gamers will complain about the 'unfair' advantage better hardware offers.

Traditionally, consoles have offered that 'same for all' experience - although that was changed a bit with the mid-gen refresh - but even then, games were capped to the same frame rates but having a Multi-player with different caps is a different thing. Even if they do cap the frame rate at say 60fps, they may have to compromise a lot on the visual quality to achieve that. Its whether or not gamers would see that as too much of an advantage and what Devs decide to do - especially as the generation goes on...

A pessimist is just an optimist with experience!

Why can't life be like gaming? Why can't I restart from an earlier checkpoint??

Feel free to add me but please send a message so I know where you know me from...

PSN: TaimeDowne

JJ2

@BAMozzy
Again Outsider doesn't have pvp. It's not a competitive mp.
I figure yes, for competitive pvp mp then there are balancing issues the devs have to resolve, but even so, we ve already started to see more and more crossplay with pc/consoles which find a way I guess with different modes allowing you to play with who you want
BC is another story. Its cross gen games that are going to release on ps4 and ps5 that get me interested. Also a nice incentive for individuals who want to jump into new gen while their friends want to stay longer on current gen so that it's a no issue.

Edited on by JJ2

The crowd, accepting this immediately, assumed the anti-Eurasian posters and banners everywhere were the result of acts of sabotage by agents of Goldstein and ripped them from the walls.

BAMozzy

@JJ2 OK so I misunderstood what Outsiders actually offered - I wasn't aware it didn't offer PvP but the point still stands re cross-gen online gaming. I don't think we will see a one rule for all regardless of whether the game is co-operative or competitive. Co-operative, you would think, should stand a better chance of being cross-gen enabled but again it really depends on the devs.

Regardless of whether it is competitive or co-operative, I really don't think you can say that every game with an online component releasing on both generations will off cross-gen gaming. Just like you can't say every game will offer Cross-platform - even though it may well be possible. It makes sense not to expect it and if it does happen, then count it as a bonus. There are incentives to upgrade anyway and you could argue that 'upgrading' to play those games with friends on the new gen is more of an incentive for those to upgrade - with BC too, its not as if they will lose their existing library...

A pessimist is just an optimist with experience!

Why can't life be like gaming? Why can't I restart from an earlier checkpoint??

Feel free to add me but please send a message so I know where you know me from...

PSN: TaimeDowne

JJ2

@BAMozzy
I still remember how my brother was pissed off that if he upgraded to ps4 he couldnt play anymore with friends on ps3 haha. That alone delayed his getting a ps4 for a good while In that sense, I think J Ryan insisted about cross gen play for a reason because of the huge ps4 install base. . I'd say it's a bit like cross platform and is there but obviously it's up to the studios to use it. I think they will since I'm optimistic. Hopefully haha

The crowd, accepting this immediately, assumed the anti-Eurasian posters and banners everywhere were the result of acts of sabotage by agents of Goldstein and ripped them from the walls.

BAMozzy

@JJ2 It's something that really only came about at the start of this generation. Before that, games weren't really played online much at all. Also if you grew up in the 80's and 90's, back compatibility wasn't really a thing either.

I was one of those that upgraded to current gen relatively soon after release. I was a CoD player, in a Clan that had been together for a couple of years but upgrading split the clan up. Not that I am complaining - its just that's what happened. I am also one of those gamers that buy a 'new' console to play 'new' games at the 'best' they can be on a console. I still have some of my old consoles and games (I had to throw a LOT away in 2013 when I moved) so could always keep playing. After a while though, the backlog of new games takes priority and I haven't played on my PS3/XB360 since probably 2014 at the latest.

When I upgraded, my season pass for CoD:Ghosts was transferred to the new console. However, you couldn't play games like that, Battlefield, Titanfall etc across the generation. Things like that and BC certainly didn't impact sales for Sony who broke all their records - their fastest selling console, sold more per year than any of their others. It may not of sold as many as the PS2 (I think ~158m sold) but that console was in production for 13yrs - double the time the PS4 has been around for...

It will be interesting to see what happens with games in the next year or so and whether or not they are 'transferable' or just back compatible with next gen. It looks like MS may well be offering a transferable system so that you get the Series X version when you upgrade console with Smart Delivery. Whether Sony offer something similar or you have to specifically buy the PS5 version because the PS4 version tells the PS5 to run like a PS4, I don't know. Quite a few older Xbox games on BC were Xbox One enhanced too - running at 4k with better Anisotropic Filtering and MS sound like they are taking that to the next level.

If, as it appears, that MS with Smart Delivery becomes like the 'PC' gaming where your games run at the best the hardware allows, upgrading a GPU (or console in this case) unlocks better visuals/performance without having to buy the game again, then it seems that ALL games will be cross generational. If you buy Halo: Infinite for example on XB1, that game is still the one that's running on Series X and using the same servers. Its not 'Back Compatible' in the sense that the console is 'emulating' (either by hardware or software) an XB1, its used Smart Delivery to install the higher quality assets etc. Its not used some BC team to enhance the game either - its running like the Series X version was meant to run. It will share servers with PC and xCloud streamers too of course.

MS have said that they are not competing with Nintendo or Sony - and it looks like they are becoming more like the PC market and their consoles are more like different spec PC's - just a more locked system. It looks like the Series X is a 'mix' between a new and iterative console - will offer 'enhanced' gaming over the older consoles like a iterative machine yet will also have 'exclusives' if the devs decide that they can't scale their games down like a new machine. MS say it will be at least a year before their titles release on just the Series X. Sony still appear to be following the traditional console format and traditionally, consoles are a completely new start with BC, when offered, not providing any benefits other than being able to run like they did on the hardware they were designed for.

Technology advances of course and what remains 'traditional' and what innovations we see will be interesting. It would be great to know that if you buy 'Outriders' on PS4, you can play with people who have 'Outriders' on PS5. I think it would be better though if you buy Outriders on PS4, then upgrade to PS5, you automatically get the PS5 benefits rather than have to buy the PS5 version or make do with BC running it like the PS4 version it is. Whether that will be the case or not, I don't yet know but Sony would lose the 'lucrative' remaster sales - Last of Us and Nathan Drake Collection were big sellers. MS though have other avenues to sell games - like the PC market and subscribers to xCloud and Game Pass too. They could sell 10m copies of Halo Infinite whilst only selling 2m Series X consoles. Sony need to sell PS5's and their business model may not allow them to take that much of a hit on hardware - especially as they will also have 'exclusives' that only run on PS5. Selling a game twice (remasters) does help but BC may impact on those sales too.

Its too early to know what will happen and plenty of time for answers before releasing the next gen. In either case, it won't affect my decision to own both consoles. It may affect which I buy first though as spending £1k on consoles at release is likely out of my reach - even though I am putting money aside in readiness....

A pessimist is just an optimist with experience!

Why can't life be like gaming? Why can't I restart from an earlier checkpoint??

Feel free to add me but please send a message so I know where you know me from...

PSN: TaimeDowne

JJ2

@BAMozzy
Man I appreciate your discussion but you keep bringing up Ms this Xbox that. I know you like xbox but I m not interested in consoles comparisons (consoles war?). Just being honest here I have no interest for xbox and I'm not going to do Sony PR to promote PS5 either haha.
Im not sure Outriders has anything to do with Ms or Sony doing , what they called that again?, smart delivery. It's not new anyway. I remember Destiny offered an upgrade too last gen. Anyway I do want to buy it on PS5. Theres probably not much difference between current gen and next gen version that cant be done with a patch anyway. That's how I'm assuming they ll upgrade it.

'MS have said that they are not competing with Nintendo or Sony' Spencer said that and everyone using their brain will understand its BS.
No offense intended man.

Edit
Yea 'remaster, remake' is a very different thing I believe. Nothing to do with incoming cross gen game developed in that intent.
I dont think Ms will give you that Smart delivery thingy for old games.

Edited on by JJ2

The crowd, accepting this immediately, assumed the anti-Eurasian posters and banners everywhere were the result of acts of sabotage by agents of Goldstein and ripped them from the walls.

Ryall

I wonder if we’re get access to the full PlayStation 4 Store on PlayStation 5.

Ryall

JohnnyShoulder

@Ryall I don't see a reason why not especially if the PS5 is backwards compatible with most, if not all ps4 games.

Life is more fun when you help people succeed, instead of wishing them to fail.

Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt.

PSN: JohnnyShoulder

Ralizah

PS5 storefront will likely just be PS4 storefront + games available on PS5.

Currently Playing: Advance Wars 1 + 2: Re- Boot Camp (NS)

PSN: Ralizah

nessisonett

@Ryall I’d assume it would be similar to how PS Vita has PSP games, it would be a PS5 store but with PS4 games on it.

Plumbing’s just Lego innit. Water Lego.

Trans rights are human rights.

Ralizah

I hope this rumor of Sony also having two models of the PS5 turns out to be true. I'll be sticking with 1080p sets for the foreseeable future and really don't need beastly hardware to power games at native 4k.

Currently Playing: Advance Wars 1 + 2: Re- Boot Camp (NS)

PSN: Ralizah

JohnnyShoulder

@Ralizah I don't as it will split the user base and be confusing to the general/casual consumer. I thought those rumours were debunked ages ago anyway? It's gonna be bad enough with the Xbox S, Xbox X, Xbox Series X, Xbox Series S. If the latter is true about the lower powered next gen Xbox machine.

Life is more fun when you help people succeed, instead of wishing them to fail.

Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt.

PSN: JohnnyShoulder

JJ2

@JohnnyShoulder
Same. I'd rather only one model but to be fair, Spencer is kinda holding ps5 hostage with hardly veiled threat of a casual mass market model if ps5 is a too high end model like Sex. So I'd say its possible. (To match Ms)
Also do you really think they ll call it xbox SS? Dam if so.

Edited on by JJ2

The crowd, accepting this immediately, assumed the anti-Eurasian posters and banners everywhere were the result of acts of sabotage by agents of Goldstein and ripped them from the walls.

DonJorginho

Rumours are that the big Bluepoint remake could be a Tenchu collection.

I hope to god this rumour isn't true, such a disappointment, especially seeing as we are already getting Nioh 2 and GOT.

DonJorginho

BAMozzy

I think if anything, Sony would do another 'Pro' model in another 3yrs times rather than release a lower spec version of the PS5. What MS is doing does seem to be quite different than Sony and that maybe because MS have a big investment in xCloud and the PC market.

Sony may well make a Console to sell at $400-$500 and not willing to take a big hit by selling it at a loss but their could be $100 between that and the Series X. If the PS5 is $400 and the Series X $500 for example, there isn't too much room to release a cheaper PS5 - especially with the current gen consoles still on the market. MS, for example could sell a Series S for $300-$350 for example, $150, $200 less than the Series X and not tread on the XB1X toes price wise.

It may make much more sense for Sony to start relatively lower spec and cheaper than the Series X whilst the prices are at their highest for the technology inside to build up their user base and then in a few years, when tech has advanced and you get more 'bang' for your buck, release a more powerful PS5 Pro. Sony started this generation as the cheaper model - albeit because of MS's decision to bundle in Kinect and may follow the same format for next gen too. If they do target a similar price point, whether you need 4k or not, its not that different to the start of this gen - you will still benefit from higher frame rates - maybe even 120fps, higher quality visuals with raytracing and super-sampling, better load times etc as well as access to the latest exclusives and your PS4 library.

A pessimist is just an optimist with experience!

Why can't life be like gaming? Why can't I restart from an earlier checkpoint??

Feel free to add me but please send a message so I know where you know me from...

PSN: TaimeDowne

johncalmc

Honestly, as long as Sony isn't more expensive than Microsoft I don't think it matters. They're going to sell more.

johncalmc

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