Topic: Elden Ring Hype Thread

@JechtUltima I didn't even realise it was supposed to be there. 😆

@JohnnyShoulder this is why I opted to not watch a gaming event live stream for the first time in ages, to avoid these exact feels!

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2021-08-26-elden-ring

"In a system similar to Breath of the Wild, you can also set various markers on your map screen."

K. I'm in.

@Ralizah Same. Makes a heap of difference to me. To be honest, if it was just another Souls game then I’m bored enough by the structure now that I’d have skipped it until a deep sale. But the more I hear, the more interesting the format sounds.

@nessisonett I've wanted to give the series another chance, but I got SO tired of getting lost in these games. I just wanted a rudimentary map. I didn't even need one with BotW's waypoint system, but I'll happily take a really cool map. BotW's system was perfect for exploration, so it should also work well for a Souls-style game.

If I don't like this one, then I just don't like From Software's games. Going physical in case I don't like it.

@Ralizah How do you feel about the overall difficulty of FromSoft games? (in general)

@TheBrandedSwordsman I actually really like the combat difficulty of Soulsborne games. Combat clicks at a certain point, and while you can still die, very few were what I would consider to be "unfair" deaths. And, of course, the boss encounters are usually intense and well-designed.

I'd have to say I like the slightly more streamlined combat and level design of Bloodborne, but prefer the build variety and environmental themes of Dark Souls.

@nessisonett @Ralizah If it is still true from what I read a couple of weeks back, the overworld will have an in-game map but none of the dungeons will. And they are supposed to be quite expansive and labyrinth-esq.

@JohnnyShoulder I doubt the dungeons will be as big as the entirety of previous Soulsborne games, so, in that respect, it'll still be an improvement. I didn't necessarily mind the lack of maps so much in the smaller levels I played in Nioh, for example.

We'll see how it goes. I'll be paying very close attention to early footage of the game.

This is Elden Ring's hub location, a place to escape the dangers of the Lands Between, and meet with familiar NPC's

@lolwhatno Of course people learn to adapt, eventually, to the lack of maps. Some faster than others. But that's not a good excuse for not having one, since it's a basic video game standard by this point, and dramatically improves the experience of playing games with exploration. People shouldn't have to memorize complex maps by heart in order not to get constantly lost in your game. That's just poor game design.

If I poured endless hours of my life into going through a Souls game, would I eventually internalize the structure of the map? Probably. That'd happen in literally any game or environment. If Metroid Prime didn't have a map, I might have, eventually, after multiple playthroughs, built a fairly good internal map of the game's environments. But that's unreasonable, and the game doesn't expect you to do that.

That's not to say that I'm opposed to ever getting lost in games. Like I said, games like Hollow Knight do a good job of balancing mystery and convenience by forcing you to explore an area before you can find the mapmaker and gain a reference for where you are. That's fine.

Hell, if Souls games were composed of singular areas that you explore, I wouldn't mind the lack of maps too much.

But huge, complex labyrinths with backtracking, shortcuts, etc. across multiple unique areas? Something like that needs a map of some sort.

@Ralizah I’ve never played a Souls game without some sort of guide or map. I’m not a big fan of being that lost. I wouldn’t say it’s an unreasonable request.

@JechtUltima Yeah me too, just like the difficult enemies, the feeling of elation of getting past these tricky situations is unrivalled in gaming.

A game shouldn’t be forced to compromise on its fundamental principles in the hope of a bigger audience when thousands of games out there already do.

Saying that I have no problem with a map being in Elden Ring, especially if the world is more open. And it sounds the dungeons will be there for those that like to get lost lol.

@lolwhatno Ultimately, this is why I think it's pretty much always better to have options in games. All you'd need is an options menu slider that enables or disables access to an in-game map. People who like being lost or having to memorize the layouts of interconnected, labyrinthine environments can disable it, while people who get irritated without having access to basic features like that will be able to properly enjoy the game.

To be perfectly honest, though, I've never, in my life, heard someone complain about being able to reference where they are on a map in a game. Most of the scariest games ever made have map systems to reference, and it didn't lessen the feeling of dread in those games.

It kinda reminds me of how certain older Monster Hunter fans pretty incessantly argued that the QoL improvements in Monster Hunter World would ruin the series because clunkier mechanics somehow made the series more immersive. I think that and the reactionary opposition from Souls fans to anything that would improve accessibility for non-hardcore fans of the games comes from the same psychological place, personally.

Well, anyway, thanks for the civil discussion. Even if we disagree, it's always good to hear the viewpoints of others.

@Ralizah @lolwhatno yeah as someone who absolutely adores these souls-likes (FromSoft ones in particular), the ‘mental-mapping’ of these games is one of the under appreciated aspects that occur during your play. For me at least, it adds to the initial trepidation that comes with a ‘journey/odyssey into the unknown’ aspect… and then the ‘mental-mapping’ is one facet (as well as defeating mobs and bosses etc) that culminates in ‘conquering’ the once mysterious and intimidating location. This would be lost if maps were provided.

@lolwhatno Done. And no offence taken.

@colonelkilgore Well said. I see the people that are vocal about stuff like this are not fans of the game anyway. Just wish people would respect the developers vision a bit more. Miyazaki has explained countless times he is very particular when making a game and these kind of decisions are done intentional and for a very specific reason, and not an oversight or something. Its fine not to like it as it is not for everyone but another thing to keep asking for them to change the game to appeal to the masses. It is a current trend which does my head in.

Other games do it differently and that is fine. But not all games are made the same, if they were this hobby of ours would quickly become stale.

@JohnnyShoulder @colonelkilgore @JechtUltima @lolwhatno agree with you all. Having no map is what adds to it being a unique experience. Getting lost, confused, but eventually finding your way is a great feeling. I'm glad FromSoft don't budge on their vision, it's a unique game and if they add a map I want it to be for their design choices for the game.

Code Vein had a Map/Mini Map that filled in after finding certain mistle (It's bonfire equivilant) and... it was absolutely fine.

Still had the initial thrill of exploration whilst also making it easier to navigate after your initial trek (And even if you didn't fill the map out it did leave a limited trail on the minimap of the route you'd took)

There's REALLY no harm in adding a map if people need/want it.

Tbh I'm surprised I'm as good at mentally mapping out the FromSoft games as I am as I'm terrible with directions in real life 😂

It’s a bit much insinuating that people who would be perfectly fine with adding a map option ‘aren’t real fans’ or something. I love the Souls games, I’ve played them all multiple times. I just don’t see the harm in adding options for people that want to use them. If you don’t want it…. just don’t use it.

@JechtUltima I don't think his comment was aimed at you, friend.

@JohnnyShoulder Alternatively, it's fine to disagree with the way games are designed and propose ways in which they could be improved. Particularly when those improvements don't entail actually changing the core design of the games for established fans. "Respect[ing] the developer's vision" shouldn't have to entail absolute agreement with every choice they make when designing a game. These are commercial products, not holy texts.

EDIT: The ultimate irony to this discussion is that it was started when the developer did, in fact, make the change (adding a map system) that was being discussed in the first place.