Topic: Did Sony just take away the hype surrounding Microsoft xbox one x launch

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@Rudy_Manchego I don't think you in particular have been excessively negative to MS or the Xbox in general. I may come across as more defensive and more like an Xbox fanboy but that's predominantly down to the excessive 'Pro-Sony' and MS bashing that PS fanboys sprout. I can totally respect a reasoned discussion and a valid argument to explain someones stance. You yourself can appreciate what something like the X offers and reason why its not necessarily right for yourself at this moment.

Its the hypocritical and ignorant comments that annoys me the most. I remember a lot of the PS fanboys 'justifying' why the PS4 was the best 'despite' the lack of 'quality' AAA exclusives - most of the responses were 1080p vs 900p more than 'price'. I also defended PS4 when the Xbox fanboys would say the comments that PS4 fanboys are saying now - the more power but no games to play argument. The same thing that Xbox fanboys responded with back then, that they would rather have 900p and more games, I see the PS4 fanboys responding with now, rather have 'Pro' and more games than 4k and no games. Its tit for tat, hypocritical and 'ignorant' too. As we know, the Xbox and PS4 receive more releases a month than the Switch has been getting (on average) yet there is this 'belief' that Xbox has no games. If its just AAA big blockbuster exclusives that 'count' as games releasing, then you could go months on both PS4 and Xbox without getting any games. Also, if a lot of those PS4 'fanboys' who justified their purchase of the PS4 by the 'power' and 'resolution/visual' advantage that offered over the XB1, then they should be buying the X over the Pro.

I certainly wasn't saying that Sony's Paris was anything less than Strong. A very solid line-up to cater to their user base. Ghost of Tsushima was a big surprise - even if you predicted Sucker Punch would reveal their new Project. I bet no-one expected this from them. The point I was trying to make though is that it didn't do a lot IF this was meant to derail the hype of the upcoming X. If you were on the fence before Paris, you would probably still be on the fence after. If you seriously considering the X before, you would still be considering it after. There wasn't enough to plant a seed of doubt, to pull people in to PS4 instead of the X. If your already invested in PS4, its solid but it's not enough to affect the Hype of the Xbox. If it had, then those who were 'hyped' would now be 'doubting' the X and those sat on the fence would be pulled into Sony's Hype. That was the point I was trying to make. Had they announced the Price drop we expected, then maybe some of those who were on the fence or looking to buy an X may well of opted to buy a Pro instead - that's when you know that Sony had an impact on Xbox X hype. At the end of the show, most of what was shown we already knew about and I don't know about you, but when they said they were done and about to show their 'final' game, I was left with an 'is that it' feeling - a bit like E3 2017 too. Considering some of the games that have been absent, like Dreams, Wild, Death Stranding, FF7 remake, Shenmue 3 - maybe Kingdom Hearts 3 and RDR2 as well, they could have given us a completely 'different' line-up to E3 making it more varied.

As for MS's long term plan, I think it makes more sense to go the iterative upgrade path - every 3-4yrs bringing out a substantial upgrade on power and phasing out of the weakest. If, like Sony, they go the 'generational' format, the 'iterative' hardware has a significantly shorter shelf life. When Sony do decide to end the PS4, the Pro will end too so its life span is curtailed by 3yrs. I also think it would be such a waste if the X is held back by the XB1. In theory, a lot of games should scale down - after all, HD is only a quarter of 4k but the fact its 'struggling' to even deliver 900p in some games does make me think its days are limited - which if that then affects the X, the X could be over before its a couple of years old. However, if they go the 'iterative' route with a 3-4yr cycle, each console then has a potential 6-8yr run and you always have a high end and low end option. The X maybe the high end option now, but in 3/4yrs it becomes the low-end for the next 3/4yrs before being phased out. Also, when ever a 'new' console arrives, you never get 'launch' exclusives that means you have to upgrade to play and then have to wait for the console to grow so MP games are 'full' - something that affected games like CoD Ghosts and BF4 - not only split by platform but also buy generation.

I am not saying that IF MS go that route, that is the 'best' way forward. It can affect design choices if you have to consider compatibility with previous iteration(s) and generations. Sony for example could opt to go with nVidia/intel for the PS5, completely new architecture etc being totally free to build the console for the future instead of feeling like they have to cling on and be compatible with the past. Its clear to me that Sony had more of an eye on the future when they gave us the Pro. Its not a radical upgrade - literally just another PS4 GPU bolted into the PS4 and a few minor tweaks to the speeds. That minor upgrade is enough to make a difference on current gen, but not enough to affect a next gen console. Lets be honest, and not criticising, the Pro is more a 1440p gaming console but only designed to increase the resolution output - not the quality of textures, visual settings etc. Therefore a PS5, offering full 4k with 4k assets is an instantly noticeable generational jump visually. Add in a 4k HDR Bluray (next gen player), Dolby Atmos (next gen Audio quality), Game VRR (FreeSync for Consoles - a gamechanger) etc etc - in every area, it represents a 'next' gen upgrade over the current PS4 & Pro. If MS were to bring out a 'Next' gen Xbox, what can it offer that the X 'doesn't'? A better CPU for better frame rates but if you are trying to sell that and showing the side by side image of a 4k HDR X game next to a 4k HDR 'nextbox' game, people will be asking why should they buy? Don't forget, we bought our PS4 for full HD over the PS3's 720p HD so 1440p to 4k is the same incremental upgrade in resolution.

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@johncalmc I agree that the XB1 is a weaker console and if you are looking for the best place to play all games, not bothered about Halo, Forza, Gears, State of Decay, Cuphead, Ori, Sea of Thieves, Quantum Break, Recore, Sunset Overdrive, Rare Replay etc then its not worth picking up an XB1 - well maybe if you want the 4k HDR Bluray player and the opportunity to play the 'fewer but still some great' exclusives - all for £200 then its not irrelevant.

Then of course, if you have a 4k HDR TV, the X may well offer 'more' than the Pro. Its not just the Exclusives then as virtually all new, and some older games will look and/or run better as well as the added bonus of 4k HDR Bluray player, Dolby Atmos audio quality. At least with the numerous Exclusives that Sony has, it will stop it gathering dust. Sony may have way way more as you put it, the majority of which are 'indie' and now VR titles - not belittling them - just fact but overall, the Xbox offers a higher number of games - if you add in the 400+ Backwards Compatible titles to the equation. If anything, the X 'could' (and I say could) be the equivalent of the PC and PS4 combination for some people.

People ask why I don't buy a PC - primarily because if I did, I would still need a PS for the PS exclusives. That being said, the X now could be the equivalent for 'console' gamers of the 'High-end' PC and Pro combination. Is a PC irrelevant if you own a PS4? I think not. The vast majority of games are available on PC too. The PC also offers a lot of the 'older' games the predate the PS4 (like the X with its BC) and a lot of them at 'better' specs/performance (again like the X). In some cases, it may actually be 'cheaper' to buy an X for 4k gaming than to upgrade your PC, monitor etc - especially if you bought a 4k TV for a Pro or to watch 4k film/TV content - and again the X offers 4k HDR Bluray too...

I can understand that for you, the Xbox maybe irrelevant for your set of circumstances - that the PS4 offers 'more' that you want and are interested in but that doesn't mean the Xbox is irrelevant to others or in general. Personally, I can't say that the majority of Sony's vast list of exclusives appeal. I think Forza is better than Driveclub and GTS - especially 7 and I can't think of any game that comes close to Forza Horizon. I have no interest in Bloodborne, the Order, until Dawn, Detroit, Dreams, Persona, Ni No Kuni, Nier Gravity Rush etc. Never been a fan of God of War either - although the new one had me interested but then Paris game-play annoyed me. Killzone was mediocre as was Infamous - especially compared to their PS3 releases. Granted H:ZD is probably my favourite Exclusive this generation on any platform and Days Gone excites me too (as does Ghost) but on average, over the past 4yrs, I have bought probably similar numbers of exclusives on BOTH systems yet I have bought more multi-platform games in a year than I have PS4/XB1 Exclusives combined. Judging by sales figures, most exclusives don't sell to 95% of their user base so its not just me that is 'selective'.

Both the XB1s and X offer 4k HDR bluray playback, Dolby Atmos audio - not just in film but in games too. Granted the S can't compete when it comes to HD gaming and offering the 'best' visual and performance as the PS4 - although does beat it on media functionality and support as well as number of games too - if you add in BC. If it was 'just' about gaming, I would have NO hesitation in recommending the PS4 over the S though. When it comes to 4k - not just gaming, I would position the Pro at the bottom of the pile and recommend the X (below a PC but still above the Pro) as it will make the majority of games look and play superior. Granted the PS4 may have more 'exclusives' to choose from but chances are, if you own a PS4, you can still play these at I expect 1080p with HDR too if they appeal. Like I said most seem to appeal to only 5% or less of the Potential user base. I know its not the same 5% with 'every' game but its not a 'high' percentage. Most people buy a LOT more multi-platform games a year and the X will do 4k in these better than the Pro would - just like the PS4 takes the crown at HD level, the X 'should' take the crown (as far as consoles go) at 4k level - at least until Sony release its PS5 which I fully expect to deliver a better 4k image over the X, Dolby Atmos audio, 4k HDR bluray and Game VRR - like the X and possibly more Exclusives too - eventually. Sony has the advantage of more studio's but MS no doubt will keep its 'Exclusives' from the OG era onwards via BC.

I get it that you are PS fanboy and that your opening statement, the fact that the XB1 is less powerful PS4 to a degree is partially valid but if that's the case, then the PS4 Pro is a significantly weaker, much more so than the difference between the XB1 and PS4, Xbox One X - just boiling it down to Brass Tacks... That difference is far more apparent - more than 900vs1080p with the same visual setting quality, same standard of textures etc. If it mattered in the previous 4yrs, it doesn't stop mattering now that Sony are the weaker system. The Xbox X will no doubt be 'relevant' to Sony as they look to the PS5, look to beat it in all areas or at least match it in a few (like Bluray player, audio quality, Game VRR etc). Its also relevant to anyone looking for the best 4k gaming experience on console - for the majority of games that they will be looking to buy.

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@johncalmc Possibly. I really do think Sony will bring its PS5 out in Nov 2018 and I would be very surprised if Sony wait longer than Nov 2019 - in other words between 1 to 2 years from now - certainly don't think we will be kept waiting until 2020 - the PS4 will be 7yrs old by then and its already showing its age. That's not me being negative towards Playstation as I think the XB1 is struggling more and can't see it lasting as long as the PS4.

I know the PS4 is still a very capable console - especially with First Party games. Uncharted 4 and Horizon: Zero Dawn are testament to that but then Uncharted 4 had to drop to 30fps in its campaign and 900p in its MP to get 60fps. When you look at 3rd party games, some are 900p or less (Tekken 7 864p - only 720/60 on XB1 though). We are seeing more games using Dynamic scaling as well as unlocked frame rates so we don't even get a stable PQ or game-play. Point is that 'both' consoles are seeing 'drops' in resolution, frame rates, visual quality settings - not necessarily all of these areas in all games but never the less a decline as games become more demanding for resources. Its not like last gen (PS3/XB360) when devs had to learn the system and as they gained experience, they got more and more out of the hardware before plateauing for a while and then a decline and then fewer games that would run on it.

I know the PS4 is only 4yrs old and Q42018 may seem too soon but the fact that games are becoming more complex, requiring more resources and VRAM so making more and more 'sacrifices' to run on the base hardware. Exclusives are built with the specific hardware so designed from the outset to fall within the parameters of that system. I guess they could use a Temporal solution to achieve a higher PQ - like the Pro does. Checkerboard rendering has been used successfully on Killzone and Rainbow Six: Seige so they could use this method to increase the resolution, visual settings and/or frame rates on the base console to give it a bit more of a shelf life so to speak - to maintain a certain standard PQ for longer. I really do think the XB1 though is more in need of using techniques like this as we are seeing more games under 900p.

The launch of a 'next' gen console has 'never' made the old console obsolete and the PS3 had a 10yr life span - an extra 3yrs (or 3.5yrs in Japan) before it was discontinued. I can't see Sony waiting until the last moment to release a next gen console and almost forcing people to upgrade to continue receiving new releases. You want to give people a couple of years cross-over period - a time when both are on the market, both receiving new releases and gradually phase out the weakest as fewer and fewer games release on it. Its happened EVERY time - although Nintendo appear to have had a very small cross-over phase as the WiiU was discontinued before the Switch went on the market and only Zelda (I think) released on both. As far as Sony (and MS) are concerned though, they have supported their older generation for quite some time after the launch of the next gen system. Therefore if Sony were to release a PS5 in 2018, the PS4/Pro could still be on the market in 2020 - that's 7yrs for a console that was 'weak' at launch - not good enough to run BF4 at 1080/60. Before you accuse me of bashing the PS4, I am even more critical of the XB1 which has continued t struggle despite freeing up more resources and dropping kinect. That GPU was definitely not good enough for the HD era and complexity of modern games. If I think its asking a lot for the PS4 to last 7-8yrs delivering a certain standard of games, then its a much bigger ask f the XB1.

That all plays into the point you made about the 4k HDR era being ubiquitous. That too will date the base consoles and another reason why I think the PS5 could arrive sooner. Like you say, that will (or at least should) put the X in the same position as the XB1s is in relation to the PS4.

I think MS though are on a different pathway to Sony. I don't necessarily think MS will bring out a 'next gen' console and the 'X' is to a degree that console. Its technically offering what you would expect Sony to bring with its PS5 - 4k gaming with 4k assets, Dolby Atmos audio, 4k HDR Bluray player, Game VRR. Chances are the PS5 will be offering a bit more refinement - more games in native 4k compared to CB4k, higher resolution Quality modes etc. I also expect a better CPU to offer more 60fps (or more with HFR via HDMI 2.1) but essentially the same 'target' that the X offers. I think MS will phase out the XB1s and introduce another 'iterative hardware upgrade' in 3-4yrs time. I can see MS having a low and high spec console on the market all the time. At the moment, the low spec is the XB1s and high Spec, the XB1X. In 3-4yrs time, MS release the 'next iterative box', phase out the XB1s so the XB1X becomes the low spec. another 3-4yrs later, the 'X' is phased out, the 'Nextbox' becomes the 'low' spec and MS release the Nextbox 2. This would mean each console last 6-8yrs in terms of game support and all your games keep moving forward with you. Its like upgrading your PC specs (GPU, CPU and/or RAM) every 3-4yrs - you still get to play all your games and a number at enhanced levels.

If MS do follow this pattern, the X will still be 'relevant' as initially the most powerful console on the market, then the most powerful Xbox before becoming the 'entry level 'Xbox console and finally, a footnote in the annals of history. What this could mean in terms of the gaming landscape may well depend on Sony. We know the PS5 is coming and no doubt it will beat the X. If MS do go the iterative route, the 'earliest' they could release the next console is 3yrs time - anything less is unreasonable. Sony could go the PS5, PS5 Pro, PS6, PS6 Pro... with a 3yr cycle. If this happens, and Sony release in 2018, they would have 2 in every 3yrs as the Most powerful console 2017 X, 2018 PS5, 2020 Next Box, 2021 PS5 pro... If they go for a 2019 release, then MS have the 2yr power edge.

I really do think MS are in a difficult position with the X. The way they have positioned and built it does make it very difficult to see where they go next and when. Sony's is much clearer and more obvious. The Pro isn't built really for full 4k experience and therefore have the option to release a PS5 which represents a generational upgrade in all areas - a GPU to handle the resolution and high quality visual settings, RAM to handle hi res textures etc, CPU to handle the complexities of modern games at (preferably) 60fps (or more with VRR and HFR), Atmos audio quality, Game VRR, 4k HDR Bluray etc - in every area a noticeable upgrade. The only realistic option for MS is the CPU area - everything else, the X offers. The specs of the X are impressive for a console but that makes it difficult to build a 'next gen' console that's say 4x better as a generational jump. I think a 2x increase is hardly a 'generational' leap but that is not going to see much difference in the games - they will still be 4k HDR quality. The only difference maybe frame-rates. Thats another reason I think MS will go the more iterative route.

By the time 4K HDR is ubiquitous, the X may still be relevant as the 'entry' level Xbox (the 'low-end' like the XB1 is currently) to rival the PS5 but MS will probably also have the 'Premium' 'next iterative box' (the 'high-end' like the X is currently) on the market too.

I know that's yet another big block of text - sorry but I felt I needed to go more indepth and try to put context, history and reasoning as to why I think we are seeing a different pathway from the big two console manufacturers and what that could lead to.