@RogerRoger Sounds great! Yeah the pacing is one of the pitfalls for sure, so there is a little fill-in that has to be left to the imagination, especially with Markus. I think Connor’s arc is probably the best paced.
And yes, Chloe (I think is her name) manages to be one of the stars of the game even with such a limited amount of screen time. I loved her and the way they integrate such a simple yet immersive device like that into the game menu. Why it’s never been done before, I’m not sure. Imagine playing Uncharted and having Sully or Elena greeting you on the menu selection screen. Maybe it wouldn’t work in another game not centered around androids and AI, but what a charming little addition it is.
@Th3solution When she opened the door to Kamsky's house, I grinned. Her involvement in that entire sequence was excellent, as was her relief when I later returned to the menu. In the end, I agreed with her request to leave, setting her free and making my main menu a much quieter affair.
Because I couldn't sleep without seeing how it all ended, so I pushed on and finished my playthrough last night. Hopefully, the first of a couple more.
Connor: Pieced together the attack on the TV studio, but exposed the android accomplice, rather than walking up to the roof and discovering Simon. This apparently "prevented a massacre" (?!). Went to see Kamsky and refused to shoot Chloe, earning Hank's respect. The FBI removed Hank from the case, but I convinced him to stick with it, and he created a distraction whilst I snuck into the evidence locker and found the location of Jericho. Went there off-book, found Markus and chose to become deviant. Helped everybody escape the attack. Returned to CyberLife to recruit the new androids in storage and was ambushed by a doppelganger who was holding Hank hostage. We fought and Hank had to decide which of us was real; I named Sumo and Cole, and the doppelganger was shot. Successfully found the back door in my programming and freed myself from Amanda's final attempt to kill Markus. After the credits rolled, I returned to Hank and we had a big ol' hug.
Kara: Arrived at Rose's house, persuaded the police officer to leave without incident, made it to Jericho and discovered Alice was an android all along (sigh). During the attack, we escaped Jericho, went to the bus station after rescuing Luther, refused to steal that young family's tickets and ended up crossing the river on a boat. Alice and Luther got shot and killed by the patrol. Pushed the boat ashore and chose to keep living.
Markus: Spoke with North, but refused to ask her any personal questions. Conducted a peaceful protest march, in perhaps the game's most direct and effective scene. Dispersed when told to, and fled when the police opened fire anyway. Stuck to my pacifist guns and took the dirty bomb detonator away from North, who I simply didn't trust with it. Reluctantly scuttled Jericho in response to the attack. North was injured in the escape; I left her to die. Continued along the core storyline maintaining a peaceful, non-violent protest. Refused the FBI's offer to betray my people. Sang at gunpoint, convincing public opinion (and therefore the President) to stand down. Detroit has been evacuated and is now apparently the android capital city.
North was the reason I didn't get the "everybody survives" ending / trophy. As soon as I reacted against her character the way I did, my desire to preserve everyone was kinda null and void, and I started making more emotional decisions than practical, tactical ones. I couldn't stand her. The fact that the game was forcing her as Markus' love interest just infuriated me further, because my Markus was so totally incompatible with her, and yet somehow he still ended up breaking down and sobbing "she meant everything to me" after her death... no, she didn't, she really didn't (but this happens a lot in choice-based games, so I just ignored that brief error). I had made it abundantly clear that Jericho was a peaceful movement, and what did she do? Brings me a trigger to a dirty bomb hidden somewhere in the city. What?! So what, you're telling me that the conventionally "best" ending, where Markus is happy and in love, is the one where the androids become murderers? Because I sure couldn't change North's mind, despite my best efforts. She kept advocating violence, no matter what. Give me more direct control and I'd have banished her from Jericho almost immediately.
That I found the most offensive error in the game's narrative (choice-based games should always have choice-based romance options; there should've been somebody for my pacifist Markus). Another error, albeit an inoffensive one, was the entirety of Kara's storyline. I kept wanting it to matter but truth is, all of her chapters felt like an entirely different and separate narrative. The attempt to cross over into the "core" storyline was just another extended jeopardy sequence; it changed nothing. Her total disconnect is perhaps why I became a little lazy and complacent in my actions towards the end. The crescendo of Connor's story had me on the edge of my seat, and moments with Markus had me blinking away tears, but with Kara? All I said was "Oh. Whoops." None of it had a point (well, granted, I can see the point it wanted to have; it wanted to show how the larger actions of the android revolution were impacting everyday families, but the Scooby Doo plot points and predictable surprises obscured that somewhat, instead stretching my patience and making it challenging to care).
Not to belittle the incredible accomplishment of the actors, developers or overall game, however. When people complain that Sony exclusives are all just "interactive movies" I laugh, because whilst they may have a point, they're interactive movies of the highest quality. It's like complaining that Star Wars films all have space battles in them; sure they do, but they're the greatest cinematic space battles ever... and hey, there's about 25% of Star Wars that I don't really care for at the moment, so feeling the same towards 25% of Detroit: Become Human still makes it a barnstorming success.
I had a dream about Detroit last night. I'm still thinking about it this morning, and will be thinking about it for days to come. And I will play it again, if only to kill Kara as quickly as possible and then focus on the stuff I like (because that's the beauty of games, folks).
Is it full of cliché? You bet, but it's important and effective cliché with an interactive element giving you a sense of agency and empathy unlike any other rights-based parable.
That's a solid 8/10 from me.
"We want different things, Crosshair. That doesn't mean that we have to be enemies."
@RogerRoger Womderful summary and I’m inwardly breathing a sigh of relief that my recommendation was not in error. So glad you enjoyed it.
As for your playthrough— I fell for the romance trap with North and the “try to save all my companions” lure. With North, it really was annoying how there were times when I connected with her but then she kept being so violent in her approach. I was able to have a pacifist approach while also maintaining at least a decent relationship with her somehow, until the end. In a moment of panic, annoyance, and “feeling the victim” due to the attacks on my nonviolent android demonstration, and with my party’s lives on the line, believe it or not, I triggered the dirty bomb and destroyed most of Detroit. It was strange that I did that and I can only claim spontaneous moral weakness (or temporary insanity), because I effectively negated what I had been trying to accomplish the whole game in the one knee-jerk moment. I wish I had stuck to my guns (or stuck to my “no guns” as the case may be) and allowed North to be killed and taken the route you did with Markus because I like how that ending sounds. Alas, the game was able to paint me into the corner, and I fell for it hook, line, and sinker. Nevertheless, I do think there was a moral lesson for me there about letting other people dictate your own emotions and reactions. I let passion and escalating “this is so unfair, I’m trying to be peaceful here and they keep forcibly treading on me” feelings drive me to my breaking point and I snapped. Believe it or not, it’s a real life occurrence. [pardon me as I wax philosophical for a minute...] Society doesn’t care what I may think as an individual and may constantly barrage me with attempts to accept its own world-view. The only person I can directly control is myself and the moment I stray from my own moral compass I have effectively relinquished that control to others. So I immediately regretted torching the city, but at the same time I was highly moved by it and learned something about myself.
As for Connor and Kara - I ended up with basically the same course with Hank and it was, as you say, probably the most satisfying conclusion and story arc. With Kara, I connected with her maybe a little more than you did, so I tried to keep the approach calculated at saving her companions, so I elected to again follow “the ends justifies the means” mantra and stole the families tickets, and make my way into the border of Canada by sacrificing one of the androids at the checkpoint. I was too thick to see the hints at Alice being android, so they reveal was a little more interesting to me, but I do think Kara’s story was still the weakest overall. But I still liked it enough to feel for her plight
The amazing thing is that although our endings were somewhat similar, a few of the stories people posted here were quite different. I think it must have been the user beemo who deleted his account and now the post is gone because I can’t find it, but I commented about saving Luther and Rose and he was like, “Who’s that?” Like he somehow managed to never meet them I think. His Alice was killed off so early that he didn’t even meet the same characters I did. Pretty interesting.
Which brings up the point of replaying the story - I never played more than one playthrough. I felt closure with all my characters to the point that I didn’t play again. I did the same for Heavy Rain. However, chatting about the game now has me curious to play again someday. But there’s a strange feeling of my playthrough being “canon” for me. But with the inclusion of the flowcharts, clearly the game is designed with the intent to inspire players to experience different pathways. Supposedly the platinum isn’t that difficult to achieve and doesn’t require you to see all the options.
“We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.”
@Th3solution I've got so much I wanna say in reply to you, but I literally scribbled my previous post down whilst on my way out the door. Rest assured I'll be back towards the tail end of the weekend with much ramblings, but thanks for your reply and perspectives as they've given me a lot to consider!
"We want different things, Crosshair. That doesn't mean that we have to be enemies."
@Th3solution Back (with a wall of text) as promised.
That's really interesting, that you felt the same way about North and yet still managed to engage her romance (because I knew you'd go full pacifist, or at least try to for as long as possible). I'm fascinated by the fact that you triggered the dirty bomb, though! We both seemed to have been so focused on why Markus was unable to change North's mind and yet it seems that, by keeping North alive, it ends up being the other way around. Those few extra moments of "We should fight!" must've kept the dirty bomb option viable in your mind, whereas I hadn't seen or heard that objection from anybody in a good while (Simon and Josh had a few "Are you certain?" moments but they were nothing vociferous). I find that amazing, what power and influence a few extra sentences can have.
Your musings on social pressure are disturbingly accurate, though. I think that's exactly why reacted against North so passionately, because she represented that voice of uncertainty, that doubt and opposition to the decisions I was personally bestowing on the situation via Markus. It definitely tells you a lot about yourself, if you allow yourself to reflect on the experience afterwards. There's no right or wrong answer; sometimes, everybody else can see a better way and we, as individuals, have blinkered ourselves to our singular, narrow view. Separate from the specific storyline of Detroit, I actually respect you more for being open to a little influence. My own bloody-mindedness has gotten me into trouble before and, back to Detroit again, resulted in North's death. It wasn't all victory and song (no matter how much I disliked her, she didn't deserve to die).
It's also worryingly dictatorial of me; everybody saw me (via Markus) as a savior, and so I surrounded myself with people who agreed with me, ignoring anybody who provided a counterpoint. I was so convinced that I was on the right path and so remorseless about losing those who could act as balance... heck, even keen to get rid of them before they were lost. In hindsight, that's a little scary, but this is why I love games. They ask me questions I wouldn't usually ask myself.
It does make me wonder, though. If you complete a pacifist playthrough, and don't trigger the dirty bomb whilst North remains alive, would she intervene? Grab the detonator? Or would she admit that you've changed her mind and made her see the possibilities of peace? And I wonder what would happen if you didn't take the detonator away from her; would she just trigger it herself, regardless? Or would you have to talk her down? Aaaaah, this game!!
I was wondering what would've happened if I'd acted to protect Kara, Alice and Luther more often than I did, specifically with regards the route you elected to follow, because I really was THIS CLOSE to doing the same. Thanks for confirming that because I think I'd like to revisit them again and really try to keep them alive and connect with them more. I've seen a few sequences of gameplay that I didn't recognise over the weekend, so there are obviously a lot more twists and turns to their storyline that I could potentially explore. Maybe they'd improve things, maybe they wouldn't... but I wanna try, and perhaps that says more about the success of Detroit's storytelling than my initial hot takes ever could.
Having said that, I do completely understand your point about "canon" playthroughs of choice-based games. I tend to see it the other way around, though; my first run, I play the game and explore what's possible and what isn't, so that I can effectively craft that perfect "canon" experience second time around. It's what I've done with Mass Effect (first playthrough was with a generic John Shepard, nervously going full Paragon whilst I learnt the ropes, and then my customised Jason Shepard became my true "canon" experience, with him being more 70% Paragon / 30% Renegade, because I knew where I could push back, what sacrifices I was prepared to make, where I wanted to engineer things for the future, etc.) and it's what I wanna do with Detroit someday, flowcharts and all.
Because spending an hour carefully weighing every single decision in a chapter, only to be presented with one of those flowcharts that says "25% Complete" and shows me dozens of branching, greyed-out paths, makes me all the more determined to go back and see what's possible. Little things like Connor uncovering that accomplice android at the TV studio and the game telling me that this somehow "prevented a massacre" have me curious. Just how detailed is this world? How does it adapt to all these choices?
Anyway, apologies. I promised a wall of text and I delivered, but please don't feel the need to reply to all of these ramblings. Bottom line is that I really connected with Detroit and that's a great feeling, and I'm therefore really grateful for your accurate suggestion!
"We want different things, Crosshair. That doesn't mean that we have to be enemies."
@RogerRoger No apology necessary, I always appreciate reading your thoughts! I was anxiously awaiting to see them. And I love talking about games like this. That’s why the PS forums exist, after all.
In response, regarding the dirty bomb — I think by the ending sequence I had forgotten about it actually. In my mind I never really considered it a viable option. Then when our backs were against the wall, North presented the trigger to me as bullets reigned down from the humans soldiers and my party’s demise seemed imminent. “Aha! Here’s a way out of this mess,” were my thoughts in the moment. So I think the move was more one of desperation. I didn’t want to have to do it, but the humans forced my hand. Perhaps North’s incessant prompts to be violent softened my subconscious, as you say. It’s been a while since my playthrough, so I’m forgetting the exact details of how things unfolded, but that’s how I remember it. Whether North would have triggered it herself, I don’t know. My inclination is that she was deferring to me and probably would have lived (or died, actually) with my decision. I’m not sure though. Let me know if you find out! If I play again it will probably be a while
Of interest, at the time of my playthrough, only like 2% of people got my same ending. I think that number is right; I know it was in the single digits. I think it was probably because most people had either gone full violent or full pacifist by the time I reluctantly triggered the bomb to end it all Do you remember the percentage of players that got your ending?
But the emotional and ethical impact of the story is great. Yeah, it’s a little formulaic and predictable in its themes, but actually, how many games have tackled slavery and social uprising in this manner? I can’t think of any. Maybe Assassin’s Creed Freedom Cry and AC Liberation? I never played either of those, but I got the feeling they were about freeing slaves, but I’m pretty sure they don’t tackle the question of “What makes a person, a person? Who is deserving of individual rights, privileges, and liberty?” I like games for mindless fun but I also like to sometimes be challenged morally with something like this. The last game that made me ponder this much was NieR Automata, which ironically also centered around androids, but had quite a different but equally compelling narrative
I hope more people are able to enjoy Detroit Become Human. It really is one of PS4’s gems. With the direction Quantic Dreams is going, I’m not sure if we’ll get another game like this any time soon.
@Frigate Well, I’m not sure I completely understand the gaming industry, but my general feeling was Quantic Dream was reeling a bit in their business strategy lately. Their games have never set the world on fire sales-wise and thankfully Detroit was a decent retail success at 2 million copies, but it was largely overshadowed by God of War and Spider-Man last year, not to mention the multiplatform games like Red Dead 2, Far Cry, COD, etc.
Then we have the allegations from former employees about work conditions, the lawsuits and counter-suits... it sounds like a mess. Then on the heels of Detroit hitting market with a subdued splash compared to Sony’s darling GoW and the pending legal battles, they sell out to the Chinese investors. Well, they didn’t sell out completely, but NetEase bought a minority stake in the company. I could be wrong, but all this smacks of panic by the company. They spent tons of time and resources on Detroit, probably suffered a little bit in sales because of the lawsuits and had to do some PR repair and get their own legal counsel, which can’t be cheap ....and the announcement about NetEase and that they are going multiplatform in the future makes me think they will lose their ‘smaller studio’ independence and probably will end up being forced to make a Battle Royale online shooter or something ridiculous like that to make money. I’m exaggerating a little here, but I fear we may not get forward-thinking, creative, innovative, and artistic games like Detroit and Heavy Rain from them in the future. In my experience, when you get large corporate investors involved, they only want to see large profit margins, and that usually means following the big money, which rarely means letting people take a chance on something creative.
I hope I’m wrong.
“We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.”
@Th3solution Wow, I didn't know that about Quantic Dream (well, not all the details at any rate; I'd heard about the NetEase part). That's a real shame. Although I'm sure David Cage will find a way to keep making his games, as he's not exactly the battle royale type... in fact, let's be honest, he does seem to just keep making the same game over and over, with new plots and characters. We've had a paranormal thriller, a murder mystery, whatever the heck Beyond: Two Souls was and now this sci-fi civil rights parable. There'll be one or two more down the line.
As for your earlier reply, I didn't realise that North presented the trigger to you during the finale; so you'd let her keep it before, when she first revealed it? That might've changed things as well. Since I'd taken it away from her, Markus kept it a secret to himself after the raid on Jericho. Nobody else ever mentioned it to me, and so the "Dirty Bomb = Triangle" prompt was a little more left-field (since honestly, I'd kinda forgotten about it). Perhaps if I'd had somebody arguing the case for it, right there in the moment, I'd have given it a little more consideration. But I can totally understand your reasons for detonating it, absolutely; after everything that happened to Markus, I was secretly hoping for at least some kind of "Slap FBI Agent" option when I walked out to meet him.
I didn't see the percentage score for my ending, no. If I remember later, I'll check and let you know. I'm guessing it's a little more weighted in my favour because there'll be those who resolutely stick to a single intent, but I'm sure allowing North to die will have tanked my percentage. In other, similar games (Life is Strange, for example) I've always noticed that more people trigger romances than not, and North would likely be more appealing to gamers' majority demographic than to me.
The next games in my backlog are the Deus Ex ones and, from what little I know of them, they might be the only other games to directly tackle these kinds of issues (albeit in a different way, as they're primarily stealth shooters and feature augmented humans rather than fully-artificial life). Given that the PS4 installment's title is "Mankind Divided" then there's the potential to reflect some of the themes from Detroit, but I'm pretty sure it won't go anywhere near the level of player input and choice.
But you're right, I wish more games would present moral issues like this; they're far more educational and useful as awareness-raising tools than your average textbook. As you know, I'm a huge Trekkie and my favourite ever episode of Star Trek: The Next Generation is one where the android crewmember, Data, is put on trial to decide whether he is alive or not, because a Starfleet scientist wants to disassemble him in a risky science experiment and, in doing so, treats him as property. As a kid, it was my gateway to understanding and developing empathy for those who have no rights, and so I adored Detroit because yeah, sure, it was a little broad-brush at times... but it also cast me as the persecuted, not the persecutor. It would've been a much different game, a much less effective game, if we'd have been playing as Hank.
"We want different things, Crosshair. That doesn't mean that we have to be enemies."
@RogerRoger Yes, there was some reported issues at QD, and Cage and company have vehemently opposed the allegations. I’m caught somewhere between “where there’s smoke there’ fire” and “innocent until proven guilty” as far as my mind on it all. Actually I’m leaning a little more toward “innocent” since after QD’s public response denying much of what was reported, the issue has seemed to die off. Yet the change in corporate direction shortly following said issues has me to believe it’s not as simple as just a spurned former employee casting unfounded aspersions. I don’t know. I try to give people the benefit of the doubt usually. I actually hate how in today’s world of Twitter and Google that word travels fast and the court of public opinion in the mob mentality of the internet becomes “the truth” even when accusations are completely false. Usually the damage is done in the first few days of something going public and people never hear the end of the story on these legal battles.
I don’t bring it up to suggest support for or condonation of work place harassment. Nor do I want to give the impression that Cage and company are vile corrupt taskmasters. I’ll leave that to the judicial system and honestly I don’t know if I really even care that much. I just fear that the development of great games such as Detroit may be adversely affected. But as you say, Cage is probably not going to be easily swayed creatively from what he’s done for years.
In answer to the question of North - yeah, I think I let her keep the trigger and she presented it to me in the moment of our dire need. I can’t be sure of that because it’s been so many months ago but that’s how I remember it.
I’ll be curious to hear about Deus Ex. I have Mankind Divided in my PS Plus backlog, but honestly I haven’t prioritized it to be on deck anytime soon. If it sits well with you I may move it up the ladder a little more.
“We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.”
@Th3solution Don't worry, I totally get how tough it sometimes feels to describe these kinds of issues to another person in a fair, balanced manner. Thank goodness I'm not a journalist who has to report dispassionately about these situations. As always, the truth probably lurks somewhere in the murky grey shadows between the accuser and the accused (no matter what the echo chamber of social media may "decide" for everybody). I'm grateful for your reply all the same!
I tried starting Deus Ex (PS2 Classic on PS3) earlier today and really struggled to engage with it, because it's now three entire console generations removed. There are hints at the goodness within, but I'm gonna have to restart it properly when I've got the focus and energy to learn how to play it without getting my butt handed to me (on Easy difficulty, no less).
Kinda just wanna replay Detroit again, if I'm honest, so that might happen soon!
"We want different things, Crosshair. That doesn't mean that we have to be enemies."
@JohnnyShoulder Cheers; it actually ran pretty stable, with fairly quick loading times, but the controls were a bit of a fiddle (obviously because porting a full PC keyboard to a DualShock is tough). I'm sure I'll get the hang of it; feels like one of those games where, if I'd have played it at launch as a teen, I'd be a natural who adores it. Plus it's too hot to learn anything new today!
"We want different things, Crosshair. That doesn't mean that we have to be enemies."
Zlatko: Kara, I can help you. Kindly accompany me to my dingy torture ch--cough "laboratory" in the basement.
Kara: Sounds good, boss.
Alice: I don't trust this man. This creeps me out.
Kara: I know, baby, but, for some reason, I literally can't even try to leave the house until I go down to the basement, so... happy thoughts!
lol
My headcanon is that Zlatko is actually Sid from Toy Story in a timeline where Woody and friends didn't cease his diabolical experiments. So, naturally, when androids became a thing, his Mengele-esque sadism turned toward them.
Anyway, I just finished with the chapter where you investigate the tower after Markus and friends raid it to broadcast a speech. After exposing the deviant responsible for the breach into the control room, Connor ended up eating a bullet and apparently dying to save my depressed detective buddy.
It's hard to stick to my guns in this game. People keep trying to pull Markus in different directions, and, when I try to appease both of them, I just end up making a mess of things. Tried not to kill the two security guards and drew attention for my trouble. Once I breached the room, I killed the dude who tried running out, which... apparently was a terrible idea. Simon got shot (and killed by me) for his troubles, and because Markus killed the one dude, public opinion still swung in the direction of our group being terrorists. Ugh.
I will admit I did reset one of my decisions. All of my hard work trying to get Hank to like me went to pot when I shot the deviant sexbot in the nightclub, so I ended up quitting and replaying that entire section to spare them.
The game is really good about making Markus and Connor feel the stress of being pulled in different ideological directions. Kara... is there a point to her story? She seems very much like a narrative third wheel.
@Ralizah Sounds like you're forming roughly the same opinions as I did, specifically regarding Kara, at the same point in my first playthrough. I'll leave you to see whether they pan out or change before the credits roll, although it's interesting that you're prepared to go back and "fix" mistakes. For all my hard work trying to get Connor and Hank to be friends, I also shot the, er... "adult entertainment female-gendered android" as you did, but didn't change anything and suffered the consequences. It's interesting how things developed as a result.
Thankfully, I took an instant dislike to one of the pressures on Markus' moments of choice, so it was pretty easy to stick to a single ideological path; it'll be interesting to hear what your outcomes are, given that you're going for a mixed bag of moments in his storyline.
Oh, and your theory about Zlatko? I'm pinching that, if you don't mind. Headcanon updated!
"We want different things, Crosshair. That doesn't mean that we have to be enemies."
@Frigate If you can keep Kara alive long enough, her story eventually results in her meeting Zlatko. He's the primary antagonist of a short, "creepy old house" section of gameplay from which you're tasked with attempting to escape. I don't wanna say too much more in case you do replay it someday, but it's all a bit Scooby Doo.
"We want different things, Crosshair. That doesn't mean that we have to be enemies."
@RogerRoger You're a better person than me. I spent a lot of time taking crap from that lush to get him to the point where he could tolerate my character, and I wasn't about to let one hair-trigger decision with a deviant change that!
Although that's the only change I'll be making. I largely want to have to live with my decisions, and there have already been a few decisions I regretted making, especially in Markus' storyline (killed that security guard dude at the warehouse in a panic, which seemed to excite North a bit too much). With that said, I'm heavily considering getting the platinum trophy for this game, and, regardless of whether I do end up getting all the trophies or not, I'll be playing around with the chapter select after beating the game to explore some of the other possible routes I might have taken.
Still wondering if I should play Markus' route by ear or RP him as a pacifist/militant. It certainly seems like hemming and hawing around the question of whether to behave "morally" or with brutal efficiency is putting me in a very tough spot where I don't look particularly good to anyone.
RE Zlatko, yeah, when I saw that cage full of abominations he had been "playing" with, I instantly knew how the man would end up going out. It's almost inevitable that the mad scientist types will be destroyed by their own unholy creations.
I've quite enjoyed reading your impressions @Ralizah
Interesting you like this more then Until Dawn. I watched a playthrough of this (It's one of the few games where I feel playing it doesn't make too much of a difference from watching) and thought it was a bit eh all over and fairly unremarkable as it's been done before in various media, especially Sci-Fi-ish ones.
Not to memtion Cage is rather overt with this themes and it's all a bit too hamfisted for my liking
The Connor stuff is pretty good though, as is Hank (When is Clancy Brown not good though?).
I'd prefer a game just all about them solving crimes rather then marcus' fairly boring revolution and Kara's mostly pointless, caught in the middle of it all, side adventure
Like RogerRoger I do quite like your alternate take on who is he is!
Looking forward to seeing your eventual review on it!
Interesting you like this more then Until Dawn. I watched a playthrough of this (It's one of the few games where I feel playing it doesn't make too much of a difference from watching) and thought it was a bit eh all over and fairly unremarkable as it's been done before in various media, especially Sci-Fi-ish ones.
Not to memtion Cage is rather overt with this themes and it's all a bit too hamfisted for my liking
I don't disagree with any of that. I guess the difference for me is...
Until Dawn pulled a bait and switch on me halfway through, and I never really forgave it for that. The idea of a horror game with a human stalker was unique, whereas horror games with random monsters are all-too-common.
Until Dawn's cast is, intentionally or not, thoroughly unlikable.
The facial captures, animation, and general presentation in Detroit are pretty decent, whereas Until Dawn kept one of its feet planted firmly in the uncanny valley the entire time.
Until Dawn has a lot of slow and boring spots to it, whereas almost every chapter in Detroit has something interesting to it.
Most of the decisions in Until Dawn weren't immediately interesting, and only gained relevance because of how they influenced events down the road. Detroit's choices (the consequential ones, anyway), do a much better job of signposting different narrative branches.
Detroit seems to be more immediately accessible when it comes to allowing the player to replay part of the story to see different outcomes. The flowcharts, in general, are actually quite helpful.
I guess those would be the biggest points of differentiation for me.
One thing I don't like is the way the game makes you hold series of buttons for prolonged periods of time. When I was hiding from Zlatko in a closet, I eventually eased my hold on, like, three different buttons, which resulted in the unexpectedly comical site of Kara straight-facedly stepping out of the closet when the dude she was hiding from was standing right in front of her!
Until Dawn pulled a bait and switch on me halfway through, and I never really forgave it for that
I quite liked That Josh was only messing with them in some twisted payback for the loss of his sisters only for it to go horribly right with the wendigos also being there. I'm a sucker for supernatural stuff though admittedly
Until Dawn's cast is, intentionally or not, thoroughly unlikable
Can't disagree with you there really. I liked Mike and Sam by the end But I bumped off Emily 'cus I'd had too much of her. Didn't really like Chris or Ashley either
The facial captures, animation, and general presentation in Detroit are pretty decent, whereas Until Dawn kept one of its feet planted firmly in the uncanny valley the entire time.
Oh Detroit's exceedingly pretty no doubt. I personally thought Until Dawn was fine but ya know... Opinions lol
Most of the decisions in Until Dawn weren't immediately interesting, and only gained relevance because of how they influenced events down the road.
Detroit seems to be more immediately accessible when it comes to allowing the player to replay part of the story to see different outcomes. The flowcharts, in general, are actually quite helpful.
Can't deny that. Especially them nice little flowcharts as I did try the demo myself before watching a playthrough.
If it was purely Hank and Connor detective adventures I'd actually put Detroit before Until Dawn @Ralizah (And would've actually bought it to play)
Just Marcus and especially Kara's storylines drag down the experience for me
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Topic: Detroit: Become Human
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