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Topic: Detroit: Become Human

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Th3solution

@beemo oh my! That’s crazy how different your ending and story was from mine! I was able to have Markus alive, get Alice, Kara, and Luther all over the border to Canada, and Conner, yeah he dies several time and comes back, but later became a deviant and fought against Amanda and ended as friends with Hank and Hank helps save his life in the end.
So incredibly different.
So that’s really interesting about Alice dying also. Hmmm... 🤔. So you didn’t even meet Rose or Luther then?

The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.

Tjuz

Well... I played and finished Detroit over the last few days. Let's just say I didn't end up with the ending I wanted!

My goal from the get go was to get to an ending when humans and androids would peacefully coexist, and where all three of the main characters (especially Kara!) ended up happy.

Not exactly how it panned out.

Markus ended up successfully leading a Freedom March and thus starting a revolution by taking over Detroit. To be fair, I did consciously choose the "revolution" option in the bunker when you had to decide what to do. You'd think that goes against my whole rhetoric, and it does, but at that point I felt the time for negotiations was over and I would just get myself killed if I went for a peaceful, diplomatic approach. The public opinion was hated.... if it remained skeptical I would've given it a chance. I managed to keep Markus' entire crew alive (North/Simon/Josh) up to that point, but both Josh and Simon perished during the march. While I suppose I successfully ended up with the androids "winning", this is far from how I wanted it to look...

Meanwhile, Connor chose to become deviant. I felt it really was the only way to go with his character arc that could end satisfyingly, but apparently the game had planned for me to make that decision all along! Suffice it to say I was not happy when Amanda locked me in her stormy, winter garden.... Luckily I was able to escape it and not be forced to kill Markus. Connor may have just gotten the happiest ending of them all — even if he didn't quite deserve it. Thing is, I totally sacrificed Hank in the CyberLife building when being faced with the "new" Connor holding him hostage. In my defense, Hank had been a dick to me all game and even flat out murdered me when all I tried was being nice to him! That's probably my biggest complaint with this game. I could never seem to get Hank out of the hostile zone. I tried to be nice to him at every opportunity, but the game would always say something completely different than what I expected it to, or say the thing I wanted it to say but in the sassiest, rudest way possible. Now yes, did I choose to chase Rupert over saving Hank from falling to his death? Yes! But he had an 89% chance of survival! Maybe Hank was right in that case... but I did redeem myself and sacrificed myself for Hank in the Channel 16 studio when the deviant was running loose. I did end up shooting the Traci in the Eden Club, which he also wasn't a fan of... BUT THEY WERE TRYING TO MURDER US! In exchange of not saving him and killing the Traci, he murders me. The second out of three times Connor died... I did spare the android in the house of the CyberLife founder, which he did like. I think the best way to describe Hank and I's relationship would be... rocky.

Kara had the worst possible ending as far as I'm concerned. Many trials Kara and Alice had endured... overcoming their abuser (a.k.a. murdering him) in Todd, escaping the motel when the cops came knocking, getting out of Zlatko's house after an epic, death-defying chase... afterwards being joined by the lovely Luther. They safely got to Rose and managed to not raise suspicion with a cop looking around the house, they got Jericho and out of Jericho alive, even saving Luther along the way. Unfortunately once they got to the part where they har to reach the bus terminal within 20 minutes, we had to sacrifice Luther. No way I was gonna go running in with a tens of cops to save Luther, sorry. Kara is not confrontational. We got through the checkpoint safely, and even managed to get on the bus by... robbing a couple's bus ticket. We got to the Canadian border and were able to have a happy moment reuniting with Rose! Then the biggest problem of the game arose... androids could not cross the border. Full with hope we stood in line anyway, and we begged the clerk not to rat us out. The clerk took a quick look at the TV, displaying rampage in Detroit at the hands of an android... and there was the end of Kara and Alice's journey. Killed just meters away from freedom. We came all this way, even sacrificed Luther... and it was all for nothing. Just become some stupid android decided to have a revolution at the exact same time we were trying to cross the border, removing any and all empathy this clerk might've otherwise had. To say I was crushed would be an understatement. I feel like I made all the right decisions when it came to Kara, and it led me to this most depressing end. This is not gonna be a character I forget any time soon.

Overall, what an outstanding game. I have tried all of Quantic Dreams' previous game attempts (Indigo Prophecy, Heavy Rain & Beyond Two Souls) and none of them could keep me engaged for longer than a few hours, or really engage me in the first place. This one was different. This is easily David Cage's best work when it comes to storytelling, and generally a fantastic story. I only have God of War left from my Black Friday haul, which seems to be generally agreed upon as having the best video game storyline this year, but I'd be surprised if it can beat Detroit. Never has a game managed to make me so tense that I can literally feel my heart beating in my chest — on multiple occasions.

That's to say nothing of the graphical fidelity of this game. I came off of having just 100%'d Spider-Man in a few days, and being very impressed with the graphics and cutscenes there. This was on a whole other level. The facial rendering (as also mentioned by @Th3solution) is probably the best I've seen in any video game ever - period. The environments were gorgeously crafted, although not as unmatched as the facial animations. Really a very stunning game. The joystick movement for actions was pretty much perfectly implemented and no longer the hassle I felt it was in Heavy Rain, and the movement was more fluid and responsive than ever in a Quantic Dream game. The flowcharts were a great addition, and I spent quite some time simply studying them and looking at the player stats. (Apparently only 4% managed to have the Kara ending I got, which makes me feel even worse about it. I'm so upset!) There definitely seems to be a lot that could've gone different, and judging by the flowcharts it definitely seems like it's the most expansive choice & consequences-game out there. I don't think I've been this engaged in a video game story since Mass Effect, and that's high praise coming from me. I could definitely see myself replaying this in the future, and I almost want to start another playthrough right now. But no! I must resist! I've got a God of War, Red Dead Redemption 2 and Dreamfall Chapters to get to. For now, I'll just wallow in silence, thinking about my horrible, heartbreaking endings.

If anyone's up to discuss the game's story further, I'd be more than happy to. This is game I could talk about for ages, although don't let that scare you off!

Tjuz

Th3solution

@Tjuz Great to see your positive response to the game! Although the ending wasn’t quite what you envisioned, the ride getting there sounds like it was as utterly engaging as mine was. I agree with your impressions nearly 100%. Although it is not a perfect game, it is so very unique and fascinating in its presentation. I thoroughly enjoyed it as well. And like you, I would really like to play through again and explore different branching storylines, but I need to push through some backlog instead. I have GoW and Spider-Man still to play and am knee deep in RDR2 at present.
It’s too bad @beemo deleted his account because he had posted his playthrough results and they were incredibly different. My results had a lot of similar outcomes that you did, with a few notable exceptions at the very end of each storyline.
(I tried to go into more detail but for some reason the spoiler tags aren’t working for me right now) 😠

I voted Detroit as the best story for 2018, granted I haven’t played the other notable games, but to me the way the narrative was crafted is truly wonderful and quite an accomplishment. I know different people will have alternate views as to the quality of the story, depending on the choices they made and outcomes they get.

Edited on by Th3solution

The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.

JJ2

@Tjuz
Im glad you enjoyed it but you definitely need to re play ASAP!
You made so many 'wrong' decisions (that is if wrong means the opposite of a best possible ending, since I dont really see them as wrong but more as simply your own story)
Just reading your path with Connor you need to understand Hank. e.g. Leaving him risk death over an 'acceptable'. % is giving Hank proof that Connor is a mere dispensable and despicable machine. Shooting the android is an easy mistake but ultimately a wrong choice in Hanks view of compassion vs cold machine. In the same idea, sacrifice (and for that matter death and new model coming up) is supporting the idea of Connor as a disposable machine. .
You definitely need a supportive public opinion and Hank friendship.
I do agree though that violent revolution is the reasonable path because they are simply being slaughtered at that point. Thing is a peaceful march does help going through the border but there r other options with e revolution path which I prefer. I also feel there are worse ending for Kara, sick ending... The beauty of this game is, even if you think you got the best ending (as in the one making you happy), you still can have missed some awesome stuff them singing etc. Leading to the same outcome.

Edited on by JJ2

JJ2

Tjuz

@Th3solution Sounds like we're pretty much at the exact same place in our gaming lives right now! I'm going to play God of War next and then try to get back into RDR2 and hopefully finally finish Chapter 2 after tens of hours of play. I might finish Dreamfall Chapters as a palate cleanser during RDR2 if I risk ''geting over it'' again. I also just finished Spider-Man, so sounds like we have fairly similar tastes! I would love to hear you go into more detail regarding your playthrough if you end up getting the spoiler tags to work. Detroit would certainly be my favourite story of 2018 so far, but Spider-Man is the only other 2018 I've finished. I'll be interested to see what God of War ends up doing for me, and possibly RDR2 once it picks up it's pace and really get the main storyline going.

@JJ2 I will definitely replay it! Possibly after I finish the above three games I mentioned. I don't want to risk not being able to get into it since I only just played this. I was actually quite surprised at how terribly I performed since I generally am able to easily achieve the ''best endings'' in video games. The way you explain Hank's behaviour definitely makes a lot of sense, and is a point of view I hadn't really taken into account. I definitely understand why he reacted the way he reacted to the two major decisions more so now. I'm sure it also didn't help that I died three times, which only reaffirmed his belief of me being disposable. I did try really hard to actually be friendly with him in conversations though, and while I'm sure that wouldn't have been enough, it would've been nice not to see the huge red arrow every time I was trying to be nice but either Connor phrased it in the worst way or Hank was just unnecessarily hating on me!

It did feel somewhat sad when Hank just rejected to help Connor at the end. I thought we were actually making progress once I didn't shoot the android and sacrificed myself for Hank, but I believed he was still either hostile/tense with me at that point because of the damned conversations. Sharing the moment with him where I ended up getting him killed by new Connor and he actually reacted gratefully to be able to see his son again instead of angrily was very nice though. I wasn't expected to be that touched by Hank at that point into our relationship. I don't know about the sick ending for Kara, but that sure doesn't sound good. I do hope I can get her out alive in my next playthrough in whatever manner. Also, singing??? I love it when characters sing in any form of entertainment, so I definitely missed out on that.

Tjuz

JJ2

@Tjuz
I have nt actually experienced the Hank outcome you mention, I didnt know it even existed. I did check out a few bad ending on youtube (which I dont even want to experience for myself) and its amazing how many you can have. I obviously dont want to spoil it for you, but there s even a full fight scene to the death between them (Hank vs Connor). In my best (prefered) playthrough Simon is dead but I just feel it made sense in defining deviant Connor personality in ways I dont want to spoil. My Connor never died (in that playthrough) and I feel thats the way it should be. Talking about -sick ending' is just my way of describing those endings I found revolting...

Edited on by JJ2

JJ2

Th3solution

I’m really excited everyone will get a chance to play this gem. Yeah, it’s not perfect and the narrative gets a little loose at points due to the multitude of options to select choices and affect outcomes, but it’s amazingly done. The graphics are probably the best character models I’ve seen on console. (Well, by ‘best’ I mean most realistic appearing)
I would love to read opinions of my fellow Push Squarians who are getting to experience this for the first time.

The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.

RogerRoger

@Th3solution Given your strong praise of the game, which I immediately thought of when I saw the news, I reckon this'll be the next PS Plus offering I actually play.

PSN ID: GDS_2421
Making It So Since 1987

Th3solution

@RogerRoger Yeah, I forgot I gushed about it from comment 38-43 😊 ... but yes, it’s definitely worth your time and it’s a fantastic game to just try out for no cost on PS Plus. I think I completed it in about 6-8 hours if I remember correctly. It could even go faster depending how your characters fare. There is really no other game like it that I know of — not with the depth of narrative choices as this. I forget how many endings it has, but when the variable paths you can take are brought into account, there has got to be dozens and dozens of possible story outcomes. I predict you’ll adore some of the characters. Just don’t be expecting the tightest, most error-free narrative in gaming. By virtue of what it is, there will be times when you feel cheated by an outcome or feel like the story jumped over and reached a conclusion that seems to have left out important plot details. But I don’t think those moments detract from the amazing accomplishment that QD put together. I know you like Sci-Fi settings too, so that will help your enjoyment also. If you (or anyone else who is gonna give it a go ... I saw your comment on the main article @Ralizah 😉) hates it, then I’ll feel bad for cheerleading the game, but at least it’s “free.”

And I suppose Rog, I owe you a Hitman or Lara Croft Go review if/when you play this one 😄.

The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.

KALofKRYPTON

I often thought of getting this on release - I'll try and make the time to try it out... If I can clear the 80gig to download it that is!

PSN: KALofKRYPTON (so you can see how often I don't play anything!)

Twitter: @KALofKRYPTON (at your own risk, I don't care if you're offended)

"Fate: Protects fools, little children, and ships named Enterprise." - Cmdr William T. Riker

RogerRoger

@Th3solution You don't owe me anything!

I'm likely to enjoy the game, even if it's just as a one-off curiosity, so I should owe you thanks for gushing about it and making it register on my radar, at least!

PSN ID: GDS_2421
Making It So Since 1987

Ralizah

@Th3solution When I finish Horizon: Zero Dawn, this will likely be the next PS4 game I gravitate toward.

Ralizah

PSN: Ralizah

Th3solution

@Ralizah It’s a perfect palate cleanser after a large open world epic.

It’s no Virtue’s Last Reward, but the multiple endings and pathways definitely has a Zero Escape flavor.

Edited on by Th3solution

The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.

Beard-Crumbs

I'll be jumping into this very soon! I'm trying to convince my wife to play it with me instead of watching Netflix when the kids go to bed She's always been into the interactive story telling type of games like the Telltale series so this shouldn't be too far off. Glad to hear it generally has glowing reviews!

Instagram: beard.crumbs

Gamer. Dad. Lover of PlayStation.

PSN: Beard-Crumbs

RogerRoger

Some expanded thoughts on my first couple hours with Housework Simulator 2018... er, I mean, Detroit.

Cheap joke, especially considering that the nature of those tasks (when I had both Kara and Markus perform them) gave me time to mull over the characterisation of their personalities and roles, and the little touches used to make me feel a certain way about them, when they're supposed to just be subservient machines. They might get a little boring in a future replay, perhaps, but I was more than happy to tidy up (with Kara's magic bottomless trash bin) or prepare breakfast because I felt like it was adding layers and preparing me for what was to come.

I also felt immediately at home in both of Connor's crime scenes, not least because it lifts the awesome reconstructive analysis mechanic directly from Batman: Arkham Origins. It also helps that Clancy Brown is his foil; other actors might not have been as effective for me personally, but I have an instant connection to Hank because I'm so familiar with Mr. Brown's other voice work (The Clone Wars, Rebels, countless games) so I immediately wanna befriend him. Even at this early stage, I can tell that that's gonna become the core of their storyline and so I'm really excited to see where that might (or might not, depending on my choices) end up leading.

In fact, I can pretty much see where most of the story beats are likely to lead, even if there are multiple outcomes based on player input. I've just helped Kara become deviant and escaped the house with Alice after shooting her abusive father, a scene telegraphed the very first time he picked her back up from the repair shop. This isn't a criticism; heck, the whole artificial intelligence narrative device has been used and overused in cinema and literature for decades, as has the whole broken family trope, but they're effectively mashed together here. I still got tense.

Perhaps the only storyline I'm still not quite sure about is Markus' caring role for old artist Karl, but I've only played a brief part of that (paused and quit as they arrived home from the formal dinner) and I can still see broad strokes. Karl's supportive, encouraging attitude makes me suspect that Markus may become a figurehead for free-thinking androids. It'd be neat if whatever revolt or revolution the game will so obviously portray is sparked by such gentle and well-meaning compassion.

Anyway, I'm hooked. Looks gorgeous, too. Something tells me I'm gonna lose the next couple days to this game, and I'm totally fine with that.

PSN ID: GDS_2421
Making It So Since 1987

JohnnyShoulder

@RogerRoger Oh I can't wait to read your impressions of what happens later!

We are now in a world of people being offended for other people who they think should be offended, who arent offended.

PSN: JohnnyShoulder

Th3solution

@RogerRoger Great to hear you’ve jumped feet first into Detroit and I’m glad you are enjoying it. It does a lot of things really well and a few things not so well, but the overall package it very impressive.
I love the relationship of Markus and Karl as well as Hank and Connor. They seem much more organic that Kara’s relationships. I’ll not spoil anything, but suffice it to say that there is a time or two that I was tempted to reload a prior decision because I wanted my relationships to turn out a certain way and occasionally the game’s consequences seemed a tad arbitrary. You’ve probably already run into a little of that, and I guess it’s unavoidable in a game of this nature. Overall, though, I think the game rewards you with interesting narrative consequences that mostly make sense. And thankfully, I think most of the tedium with housework and such is front-loaded in the early hours. I don’t remember the latter half to be filled with quite as much of the mundane. I think you’re right — part of that early housekeeping is to establish an emotional investment of the character roles.
I look forward to reading how things turn out for your characters! Of the various outcomes and storylines that people posted of their first playthrough, I don’t think I saw the same one twice and no one ended up getting my final result that I know of.

The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.

RogerRoger

@JohnnyShoulder @Th3solution Okay, so here's where I'm at now.

Connor: Managed to interrogate the deviant successfully, impressing Hank and defusing the situation when that hotheaded other cop came in and started roughing things up. The next day, alas, the deviant destroyed itself in its holding cell, just as I was befriending Hank. We went to the motel where Kara had been spotted, but found nothing. After more friendly banter over a burger, we investigated the pigeon-infested apartment (which was awesome) and chased down another deviant (which was freakin' awesome) who, alas, I let get away because I chose to save Hank instead. He and I are now friends.

Kara: Politely "robbed" the convenience store (by persuading the cashier to give us $40) and stole some clothes from the laundromat so that we could stay in the motel. Changed my hair colour to white. Alice considers me family. Successfully escaped the police the next morning and ended up at the creepy Zlatko mansion, from which I've just escaped after freeing all of Zlatko's experiments (which killed him) and befriending Luther.

Markus: Came home and interrupted Karl's total butthole of a son (seriously, this guy pushed all of my buttons) so shoved him when provoked, becoming deviant. Looked real bad when the police showed up; ended up shot and left for dead in an android landfill. Repaired myself and went looking for Jericho. Found it. Chatted to all the other androids from the police files I'd previously gone through as Connor. Convinced them all to go and steal badly-needed spare parts after one of the damaged androids made me cry when he said that he didn't want to die.

And now for some general, in-progress musings.

I'm starting to see some of the cracks that I'd heard people mention before; partly because of my own narrative choices, perhaps, but also in terms of gameplay. Specifically, as fun as it sounds scanning graffiti for hidden directions to an android safe haven, that entire section with Markus jackknifed a big rig truck across all lanes of the pacing highway. It was also a section which felt rushed in development, with a gorgeous sunset trying so hard to cover up some jarringly PS3-esque models and textures. I wasn't expecting total genius consistency throughout, however, and so had kinda been expecting a chapter like this to come along sooner rather than later. Just a shame it happened during Markus' storyline because his is one of the two I'm actually invested in.

The other is Connor's (about which I have zero complaints thusfar, all of his chapters have been perfect) which just leaves Kara who, alas, has fallen far too quickly into a "girl threatened by big creepy men" routine. Whether there's a better, more interesting storyline for her elsewhere in the game will be something I discover during a second run but, for now, she seems totally disconnected to the rest of everything (Connor is searching for deviants, Markus is one of them... can see where this is going). The entire sequence at Zlatko's mansion felt like an episode of Scooby Doo, and if her new friend Luther basically takes her to Jericho now, then all this preamble is gonna feel totally drawn-out and pointless.

These are just the hottest of hot takes, and I'll reserve judgement until the credits roll, naturally. With the three storyline approach, there were bound to be parts that worked better than others; for now, there's one I'd call great, one I'd call really good and one I'd call supremely average... and hey, that still events out to a pretty cracking experience. Wouldn't have been playing for so long today otherwise!

Looking forward to seeing what happens next.

PSN ID: GDS_2421
Making It So Since 1987

JohnnyShoulder

@RogerRoger I thought the same with that Marcus section scanning for graffiti, iirc it was my least favourite section of the game. And yeah Kara' s story does get more meaningful eventually (well at least my playthrough did, yours may turn out a bit differently).

We are now in a world of people being offended for other people who they think should be offended, who arent offended.

PSN: JohnnyShoulder

Th3solution

@RogerRoger Your playthrough is falling pretty close to mine, with a few small exceptions, so I think our play styles are similar. I tend to avoid unnecessary violence, look for peaceable solutions, but sometimes certain characters just tick me off and I have to go Rambo on them. Still, even with relatively common goals, I think I see your and my narrative paths starting to diverge slightly. Very interesting.
But yeah, spot on with your impressions so far. Although I don’t remember that area having poor visual fidelity. Perhaps it’s related to your being on a Pro and I’m on a standard PS4. I could have just been rushing through that part and not paid attention because as you say, it was a little bit of a lull there.
Keep it coming! It’s fun reading and experiencing it again in my memories.

The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.

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