Rumour: PS5 Pro's 'Enhanced' Label Covers Resolution, Frame Rate, Ray Tracing Upgrades

The better graphics get the longer we’re going to have to wait for video games.
By the time we get to PS7-PS8, it’ll take 15 years to make a game.

So more remakes/remasters, but enhanced?

It's kinda sad that consoles follow the PC way of doing things..More horsepower with less polished games taking advantage of it..It seems that everything happens to pass the cost of developing to the consumers. Sooner or later they will say that we need an rtx4090 to run tetris.

A pointless upgrade that allows developers to avoid trying to push the hardware we already paid for.

"What games do you hope receive PS5 Pro support?"

Every... Single... Oneofthem. If I dust off my old PS5 box, which keeps a low profile in the back of the garage, it still boasts some fancy features like 8K, 4K120FPS ect. And we all know what we got so far. I know, it's also the developers' laziness that we still have to choose between quality and performance but at least it would brute force the games to achieve 4K/60, if nothing else...

Wonder why Sony felt the need to develop this. Is resolution and ray tracing really that important to console gamers? I’d prefer developers focus on making their games run at 60 fps at least. To get the best of both worlds is why anyone would go the extra mile and get a capable PC

Y'know what? It's not 2001 anymore. Graphics are becoming less and less important as a system seller because we have already reached the point where they are better than reality.
Fun. That's what I want. And yet there seems to be precious little of that around now.

I'd rather just have playstation on the go and new gameplay ideas. This maximalist view on graphics isn't helping the medium.

@danzoEX This! And then you get some stunning games and people still complaining about the look of them …

How to aquire the "Enhanced" label in 2 steps:
1. Game on PS5 - 30fps
2. Game on PS5 Pro - 31fps

From what we’ve “heard” it all sounds great to me. I hope they officially announce it soon, I want to get my preorder in. I can’t wait.

So the message I'm getting is the PS5 they sold me on is a useless piece of crap now?
Now I need to get the next big thing again? Just like how they "supported" my Vita and PSVR?
I'm getting tired of Sony man.

Here we have a game like Dragons Dogma 2 with tiny amounts of physics vs PS3 games and it's already struggling a lot. Go the hell Sony.

@LifeGirl
They all focus on mUh fRamERatE.
None of these games have a decent core anymore. It's all so shallow. Games don't even look that good, they have absolutely no physics compared to games TWO generations ago, they all feel and play the same clunky way like Ubisoft games and they're terribly written.
Wtfs going on

What happend to regrets being released last week lol? Any news on it being delayed?

@LifeGirl I Agree, I'd be happy if graphics stayed the same going forward. There was a huge jump from PS1 to PS2, and PS2 to PS3. Then the jump got less and less from PS3 to PS4 and PS4 to PS5. There's also no need to focus on 8K or 120fps as the majority of gamers don't have TV's that support those settings and most likely will take many years until they do.

We are at a point where we have super fast loading times and realistic visuals, just need to be able to have things like Ray Tracing for games at 60fps at 4K and that's enough going forward, But unfortunately developers want to keep chasing the latest PC specs and capabilities.

@Czar_Khastik Game on PS5: Locked 1440p
Game on PS5 Pro: Targets 4K, comes in only ever hitting 1440p.

Label acquired

Dolby Vision support for 4K Blu-rays or no buy.

The Last of Us Part I Returns

As long as they are honest and not using it to mislead people into believing they are getting something they aren't. Its bad enough claiming its a '4k' game when its clearly running well below that resolution and using whatever 'method' of upscaling the hardware has (whether it was Chequerboard, FSR, DLSS or PSSR) but I don't want to see devs claiming its a '60' fps game if its only running at 30fps and using Frame generation to smooth out the motion to 'look' like its 60fps.

When we only had 'basic' upscaling at the start of the PS4/XB1 gen, the way a game ran on that hardware 'mattered' - whether it was 900p or 1080p. Even if they weren't delivering what they said, as in Killzone: Shadowfall, that mattered.

If the PS5 Pro is actually running games at say 1080/30 and using PSSR to 'upscale' and create the look of a 4k/60 game - be honest that its still a 1080/30 game with PSSR. Its no different from running a game at say 1080/60 on PC and using DLSS to 'look' more 4k/120 - the game is still running at 1080/60.

I have nothing against using Upscaling - especially if they can clear up the upscaling artefacts much better with AI/ML - but I do object to this being a 'crutch' to devs, misleading to consumers (its not '4k' if its 'upscaled' however good the upscaling is). No-one would accept that 900p was better or even as good as Native 1080p with the 'traditional' upscaling methods so why think DLSS or PSSR is - Its gives better results than traditional upscaling, but its still an upscaled image.

1080/30 with AI enhancements to get to 4k/60 may look and appear 'better' than a game running at 1440/60 and relying on FSR2 to upscale to 4k but I'd rather play 1440/60 as the game is running 'better' and updating 2x as often for lower input lag and a more responsive gaming experience.

I just wish the console could hit 4k60 so the entitled gamers could shut up for real. I can't stand that debate anymore

I'm Excited, I'LL be getting the PS5 PRO Day 1!

Has anyone ever considered that Maybe Devs will have to do a better job to Optimize Base PS5 Games the way they should be, but seemingly aren't, because it'll be the only way to use the Exra Power of the PRO (effectively) to get these upgraded FPS Speeds their touting.

Either way, I'm definitely getting one!

@Czar_Khastik
1. Game on PS5 - 30fps
2. Game on PS5 Pro - 33fps
It’s 10%

I also think the Pro model is not needed. New system seller games on PS5 and XBox are more important.

@danzoEX do NOT worry. AI will shorten the development cycle significantly.

@Nintendo4Sonic unfortunately, Sony is a hardware company. Last year they released more hardwares (PSVR2, Slim, Portal, Pulse elite, Pulse explore..etc) than software titles.

@__jamiie my man.

People have kind of been thinking "where are all the Sony first party releases" right?

Well, we will see them all when this is out. So even if you aren't interested in it, be hopeful that the games will be coming and will run nicely 👍

What games do you hope receive PS5 Pro support? I hope not a single one. I don’t get Sony. First you have a CEO complaining about profit margins, then they release another machine which requires additional optimisation for new and existing games. What a pointless machine. Just do a Nintendo: stick to your hardware and churn out games.

@ryanburnsred
To get people like me to double dip.

I had my PS5 at launch but unless it fails, I'll never need another PS5. But by putting out the PS5 Pro, they get people like me to spend another 500 quid.

With many games offering dynamic resolutions and/or unlocked framerates with more than 60 fps in VRR mode, many games will get the „Enhanced“ batch without even touching the code, rendering this batch almost useless for highlighting significant enhancements.

Gonna sound like a broken record but all I want is framerate increases - min 60fps (it would be nice to see better developers targetting 80-90fps like some Sony games have over the last few years using uncapped/VRR/120hz).

Other than that it would be nice to see upscaling give a less 'muddy' blurry look.
They can keep raytracing and other graphical effects that make minimal difference in a lot of games - i couldnt even notice RT was missing in jedi survivor when i turned it off. The only games RT has ever really been noticeable to me in is insomniac games.

I do fear though that the pro will mean a lot of developers targetting it and what that means for optimisation on base ps5.

The average gamer does not care for frame rates resolutions or ray tracing most don't even know what they are. Saying that the pro will probably sell well just because it's the new PS5 console

Hope I can get one without going through scalpers. I really liked the ps4 pro.

@BAMozzy

Hello BAM, we both know where each other stands on the PSSR tech, but I came across this Link for TomsHardware that seems interesting, let me know what you think.

https://www.tomshardware.com/video-games/console-gaming/playstation-5-pro-enhanced-requirements-allegedly-leaked

Happy Gaming ✌!

The specifications for getting an "Enhanced" tag couldn't be more poorly worded if they tried.

• "A better "target resolution" on PS5 Pro than that of the "fixed resolution" on the standard PS5 model"

Pretty rare to find a "fixed resolution" game on any platform. Most use DRS with a target maximum resolution.

• "An improved "target maximum resolution" on PS5 over a "variable resolution" featured on the base PS5 system"

Uhm, okay, isn't this kind of the same thing as the first bullet since, again, most games have a target maximum resolution and rely on DRS?

• "Increased frame rate target on PS5 Pro that's better than the "fixed frame rate" seen on the original PS5"

I would say most games have a "frame rate target" and some just do better at achieving it than others. Not exactly sure what they mean by "fixed frame rate".

• "The use of PS5 Pro's ray tracing features"

The only one that is crystal clear.

Sony’s new advertising just leaked:

“All of the things that were promised for PS5, available now on the new PS5PRO!!
This time, we mean it!”

🙄😑🤮💀

Most games will target the enhanced ray tracing and leave the framerate at 30FPS 👎 Sony should enforce 60FPS to be able to get the "Enhanced for PS5 Pro" label.

@GamingFan4Lyf fixed framerate is basically not a variable framerate. Basically, 30FPS locked. Which needs to die in a fire anyway.

The pro isn't offering enough for me to spend another 500. I didnt bite on the ps4 pro either. No FOMO for me. I don't mind waiting a couple more years and get a difference maker in a ps6.

@__jamiie
I know right. Does this mean devs are not even going to try to sort out the poor optimization problems we are seeing.

@MattBoothDev But one could argue that the second a 30fps game dips to 29fps for some strange reason, it's no longer "fixed" but a game that targets 30fps and mostly hits the target 99% of the time. 🤔

"Fixed", to me, says that the same is hard-coded to 30fps. There is no overhead, there are no frame dips. It's just...30fps.

I disagree that 30fps should be "banned". Sometimes I like games that push visual boundaries at the cost of framerate.

@Elodin you realise it's possible to do both? People saying they'll ignore the Pro and wait for PS6 (which is anything up to FOUR years away!) as if it's either or.

I'll be buying a Pro, trading in the then inferior base machine, and once PS6 comes out, the Pro is replaced by that.

@RicksReflection Most of it makes sense and what we see already in many cases. I mean if the PS5 has to drop to say 720p to achieve a '60fps' mode, then PS5 Pro could either increase the RT effects at 720p, increase the resolution to say 1080p, maybe even keep at 720p but 'unlock' the Frame rate to be above 60fps, or if a game is relying on Dynamic Resolution Scaling to lock to 30/60fps, then maybe the PS5 Pro will not drop resolution - its all very similar to the PS4 Pro or XB1X - even similar to the Series X vs Series S which also has some 'performance' modes not available on 'weaker' base hardware.

The point is that if the PS5 can't offer '60fps' due to CPU limitations, then the PS5 Pro won't either - but will likely offer some other enhancements (like Higher Quality RT, Higher Base Resolutions, tighter lock to whatever 'Frame Rate' (inc 40fps) or not drop 'resolution' at all) compared to PS5.

If the reason the PS5 can't hit 60fps consistently is GPU/Graphic settings (ie would look low res, low quality image) then PS5 Pro may have well be able to deliver 60fps. The PS5 has games that are 720p in 'Performance' modes that look really bad in motion with FSR 2.0 artefacts and may drop frames too - but PS5 Pro could deliver a MUCH higher quality looking image maybe 1080p with much better upscaling than FSR so 'performance' mode actually looks significantly better on Pro.

Games like BG3 for example which drops below 30fps on PS5 due to CPU limitations isn't likely to be 'enhanced' to 60fps by PS5 Pro - they may well 'increase' the base resolution, increase the visual settings, have a much tighter lock to 30fps AND/OR not drop Resolution if DRS is utilised - as per both this and that article - its not saying that Devs have to try and force or 'fake' 60fps (with Frame Generation).

That article and this state that games 'must' be enhanced - so even if it has a 'higher' quality RT setting, better than the PS5, it is 'enhanced' - even if the resolution and frame rate remains the SAME. If the Pro version of the game drops resolution or frame rate 'LESS' than PS5, its 'enhanced'. It maybe a 4k/60 PS5 game with DRS and avg 1800/55 so the Pro 'enhances' that by not dropping res/frame rates so you get 4k/60.

There are games that can't run at '60fps' on PS4 Pro (4.2TB GPU), XB1X (6TB GPU with more RAM) than the Series 'S' and its tiny 4TB GPU because the issue is the CPU. Therefore if its CPU limited to 30fps, then the PS5 Pro will be too - enhancing the game in other ways - higher Starting Res, less reliant on DRS, Higher Graphical settings inc maybe higher quality RT in use.

It's exactly what I'd expect and have been saying....

Yea anything less than 60 fps now just feels blurry and slow, 60 is just so smooth, in most cases ray tracing is cool to try but ultimately its not worth it for 30 fps.

To have best of both worlds is cool but for that little edge is it worth the hassle of selling my ps5 to gamestop and then waiting for a pro... idk maybe.. depends on the price to upgrade I guess?!?!?

@matekomlosi you’re not getting 4090 performance from a 45% base ps5 gpu upgrade. You won’t be “brute forcing” rather more likely “subtle nudging” a game towards 60 using upscaling to render a non-native 4k image. Either way, it should result in an improved experience over the base console, albeit for a more premium price.

@AFCC

Entitled? If you own a PS5, congratulations, you are in the top 1% of humanity.

This whole hobby is entirely a luxury and a complete waste of resources.

Who are you to tell us that we are entitled if we want the hobby to keep improving, when taking into account that this whole community is indulging in what is already a luxury?

@danzoEX yes this what a lot of donuts don't realise. That's why this gen is so slow, the constant demand for 60fps, 4k, openworld, raytracing from the cry babies. Is slowly destroying the industry. And the constant flow of the same ***** games, just prettier is a joke. Games should be engaging & fun, not a chore to play. Personally I would love the industry to crash it needs a serious reboot. Keep updating tech isn't the answer, the answer is better coding & pushing the existing tech to its limits.

@tameshiyaku totally agree, the industry is in a ***** mess. Thanks to the graphics whores & the 60fps crowd. That's all games are ever based on now its a joke. What will they moan about once this pathetic dream becomes the norm. Personally i play more retro than today's crap. It's more enjoyable & great to play. And none of this tech nonsense in sight.

@Axelay71

Games were plenty fun in 1990.

Why did we waste all these years improving graphics? Those damned crybabies!

@GreatAuk 1990 a great year for gaming. The 16bit days the best days. Such an amazing time to play games then. From the consoles to arcade. I'm still playing them. And the Megadrive is still getting new games. Certainly won't be seeing modern systems still being supported like this.

@Dr_ENT that’s what I’m worried about

@Axelay71 funny that you say that cause people stay complaining about FFVII REBIRTH’s graphics…when personally I don’t care when the only thing I care about when it comes to video games I play is

Is it fun?
And yes, yes FFVII REBIRTH is fun.

Oh here we go... All the Negative Nancy's.
Personally I can't wait for the Pro.

That went from a must buy for me to an “I don’t care”. Tired of developers being allowed to be lazy. Don’t get me wrong layoffs suck, but as harsh as it is, if you release games in a horrible state (beyond just frame rate issues, that’s forgivable) then maybe you aren’t cut out for this line of work.

As a consumer, I’m tired of the “development is hard” argument when games do poorly as a result of poor optimization. I hear the same complaint from retail workers whose only job is to talk to customers and place orders. There’s always someone better than you.

@DeathlySW I mean I guess we can look at the positive side of it’ll help them improve their image quality with depending on AI…..but as far as I know of AI Image enhancers…. They look smeared and I don’t want my games looking smeared

@Axelay71 there’s less and less people demanding that now and more people just wanting their 90 dose purchase (Canadian here) to be worth their money. If a game is falling apart at the seams due to poor optimization there’s no one to blame but the developers and publishers. I want my games to run well, that’s it! I don’t care if you’re rolling 1080p at 40 fps, but when games come out that struggle to run 1080p at 30? That’s when I think the layoffs are justified and there are people won’t aren’t worth keeping on payroll.

@MattBoothDev
Quite agree with you, 30fps should have died out at the start of the generation - though to be fair it sort of did, until more recent examples of poor optimisation, or excessive ambition.

It would be great if Sony actually enforced 60fps for PRO, but sadly I think they will stop a step below actual enforcement (though I think they are considering it given how strong feelings actually are) - if they dont, though, I know a lot of people, most of whom have had playstations a long while, who may just leave for PC if things get any worse than they are now.

Call me old fashioned. I'd rather just have a well optimized game, couldn't give a single plop about ray tracing on a puddle or window that you see for less than half a second.

@GamingFan4Lyf I don't think those games should be banned or locking to 30FPS should be banned but they shouldn't be allowed to say something has been "enhanced" for PS5 Pro when it's still running at 30FPS.

I expect a mid-gen refresh to take what was 30FPS and make it better, otherwise there's no point in the refresh.

And, on the one hand, sure there's some good looking games but on the other hand 30FPS is terrible and pretty much most games are better when there's a 60FPS option.

It should become the standard.

@BAMozzy

Like I said before, we both know where we stand, what I was curious about was your take on this part of the Article:

"On base PS5 and in PC games, real-time ray-tracing is also incredibly CPU-intensive, not simply GPU-intensive. However, console games can be optimized at an SoC level, and it seems as if the PS5 Pro's GPU may be tailor-made to offset those CPU bottlenecks otherwise introduced by real-time ray tracing on the console.

Considering the nature of these "PS5 Pro Enhanced" performance targets and the existing leaked specs, it may be too soon to rule out 60 FPS for PS5 Pro games."

Happy Gaming ✌!

@Rich33 yeah I made the PS5 my primary gaming platform at the start of this generation because GPU prices were stupid. They_still_ are but if the PS5 Pro is going to continue the trend of pushing fancy graphics over playability then it makes sense to jump back to PC.

Games like FF16 don't even look that good and struggle to push 60FPS in battles without sub-1080p resolutions... Something's wrong there.

@matekomlosi Indeed mate. The console pushers (Microsoft/Sony) always appear to label their console for the generation +1.
The Xbox One / PS4 they claimed 1080p but no they were 720P and we had to wait to get 1080p on the XBO-X and PS5, the XBO-X and PS5 they claimed 4K60 but no, that will be the pro and so on.

@DeathlySW yes I agree, some live in a dream world that everything should run in 4k 60fps. No matter how powerful the hardware gets you'll always have the same issues. Personally 1080p is still great for me. I love retro gaming on a crt tv, nothing better.

@danzoEX exactly, but some are never happy. It's like they just want to find faults instead of enjoying the damn game.

@RicksReflection I have NEVER ruled out 60fps on PS5 Pro - what I have said though is that if its 'limited' to 30fps because of CPU limitations - as we SEE in MANY games without Ray Tracing today, then a 10% boost isn't going to make any significant difference.

However, we do have games running at 60fps and even above 60fps on PS5 - so Games will still be '60fps' on PS5 Pro. Games that may 'offer' performance modes but 'struggle' to lock to a 60fps will likely be more 'consistent' - perhaps even lock to 60fps.

What this is saying is that IF a game is say 4k/30 on PS5, they could potentially drop the resolution to 1080p and use PSSR to look as good (if not better with higher visual settings inc RT because its a LOT cheaper at 1080p) and get 60fps with the GPU savings (as long as the game isn't CPU limited).

If you have 100 enemies on screen, each with their own AI and Physics, each with their own hit detection etc, that doesn't change the CPU workload - it still has to calculate the AI, Physics etc for 100 enemies, tell the GPU where they are, what to draw and call in all the Assets for those 100 enemies. You can 'reduce' the Data by reducing the quality of the textures and therefore reduce the data and decompression load with 'lower' res but it doesn't reduce the amount of AI, Physics, Draw Calls etc the CPU has to do.

I think you are misinterpreting what I am saying. These CPU limited games are still CPU limited on PC with far more capable CPU's, significantly higher RAM and Dedicated GPU's with Hardware accelerated AI Upscaling/Frame generation (DLSS). If an RTX 4090 with paired with intel i9 (a CPU that costs more than a PS5) can't deliver '60fps' at 1080p with DLSS, then how do you expect a PS5 Pro to do so? That 'PC' has more RAM in its GPU alone than a PS5 Pro, let alone 32GB+ of 'System RAM'. It can't do '60fps' at 540p because its not about the GPU, which is not even out of 1st gear, its because the CPU CANNOT do its workload in 16.6ms to hit 60fps. You'd get the same 45-50fps at 540p or 1080p because its NOT the GPU that's preventing 60fps, its the CPU...

Those are the games that I say won't be '60fps'. They may 'present' 60fps by artificially inserting extra frames to create the 'look' of 60fps, but if the CPU takes 20ms to do everything, the '10%' boost may save 2ms for example, but that's still not enough to hit 60fps. A game running at 55fps on PS5 could be 60fps on PS5 Pro.

It really does depend on how the game was built. BG3 doesn't run at 60fps on the best PC in that town area, regardless of how you scale the Graphics down because the issue is CPU. Busy towns have a LOT more AI so a LOT more CPU work that doesn't scale with Resolution - it scales with number of AI so you have to reduce AI, limit the number of characters (as you often see in Racing games - the watching crowds are 'reduced' or dumbed down in Performance modes to reduce CPU work..

I'm sure there will be 60 even 120fps games. I'm sure they'll have great graphics that look superior to Base PS5, but if GTA6 or any Game that is CPU limited to 30fps on Consoles, its unlikely to run at 60fps on PS5 Pro - not without fundamental changes to the Game design (like reducing AI, dumbing down CPU workload etc) to free up enough 'overhead' to reduce the Frame time from 33.3ms by half to 16.6ms.

Expecting BG3, the way it is now for example, to go from its 20-30fps in that town section to 60fps which isn't possible on the much higher spec Hardware with a very 'mature' AI upscaling solution (DLSS) that has even more CPU cores, faster clock speeds, More 'on chip' GPU cores, more cores for AI, RT etc, a LOT more RAM and many other benefits' is unrealistic.

I do expect 60fps games - they exist 'now' on PS5 so PS5 Pro will deliver too. The Pro 60fps modes should look 'closer' maybe even better than PS5's 'Quality' mode even if running at lower res to hit 60fps because of PSSR - 1080p AI upscaled with 'higher' visual settings is likely to look better than say 1440-1800p with traditional upscaling or 1920x2160 CB rendering. But that's if the CPU is not limiting the game to 30fps on PS5 but more that 720-1080p, lower visual quality settings and with FSR to upscale to 4k looks too ugly and/or distracting to warrant offering a 'Performance' mode on PS5.

Well as long as we don't get into a performance split that has plagued all Xbox developers being hamstrung by the Series S/X dual platform.

Rather just if Sony went all in on PS6 in a couple of years.

@lindos yeah, I don't care if it can't support 4K/120FPS or 4K60FPS in most cases but don't label it then. I'm a casual hobby gamer, most games I play looks just fine overall in performance mode for me, two meters away from the screen, on my couch. The main problem is that some games can't even reach a stabile 40 or even 30FPS on a console that promised so much more.

@Axelay71 I run a 4K 65” tv, so 1080 doesn’t look the greatest but I can always use the reality creation setting to make it a little more crisp. If a game runs like molasses I can’t do anything about it, not even vrr can save it. Dragons Dogma 2 has big frame issues but it’s a remarkably stable and great looking game so I can live with it. Granblue Fantasy Relink performance mod is 1080 with minimal upscaling but still looks fine and runs at a very crisp 60 fps with nearly no drops. Developers need to understand that visuals affect sales marginally, performance affects sales majorly. Focus on ensuring your game runs well and the rest can be figured out in time. Wild Hearts is a perfect example of failure on both fronts. Lots of visual issues and performed was horrific, patches fixed the little and the game failed as a result. It was an amazing game that, if given more TLC, would have been a hit.

@BAMozzy

What?....I know that your not ruling out 60FPS on the PRO, and I also don't know where you're getting that the Article's Quote (that I Posted to you) is saying to drop to 1080p and then upscale then get 60 FPS...ect.....again What?

I was asking for your DIRECT Opinion, to the (Exact Quote) from the Article that I Posted to you...what happened?

What I gleaned from the Article myself is, that the Base PS5 typically uses CPU Processing as well as GPU Processing when doing Ray tracing, and that Sony's new GPU in the PS5 PRO (Unlike Base PS5) maybe using a Hardware Based SoC Solution to Apply Ray Tracing through the actual Custom GPU, that then directly applies Ray Tracing without using as much CPU Processing as the Base PS5 when doing it, so it's Freeing Up Even MORE CPU Processing in the PS5 PRO over what the BASE PS5 CPU can do, and that it will Further Reduce the Bottleneck to help Gain towards (a Natural) 60 FPS along with (and not including) the 10% Overclocked CPU and other upgrades in the PS5 PRO.

Again until Sony Addresses PS5 PRO and it's Full Specs, this is fun Speculation, but I thought the Article was very interesting, and brought up a valid point, a way for the PS5 PRO to Squeeze out more CPU over the Base PS5 for faster Frame Rates, by utilizing the Custom GPU Hardware in the PS5 PRO.

Happy Gaming Bam✌!

@RicksReflection I'll put it simply - they have a way of Running RT on PS5 Pro that is a LOT less CPU intensive then - as nvidia does with its 'tensor/ai/cores'. So that may make the difference between RT at 60fps or NOT with this because its not really adding to the CPU load...

That means PS5 is also able to do a 'Performance' 60fps 4k mode 'without' RT and will look more like a low res, FSR upscaled 4k with noticeable artefacts...

It doesn't mean that it will suddenly free up CPU resources ithe PS5 isn't/wasn't using them for anyway It just means they can add RT features at 'lower' cost than it costs on PS5 to achieve the SAME feature - in other words, if its 4k/30 with RT on PS5 in Quality mode, you may get a 4k/60 with RT on Pro because the 'cost' to add it is not as high but PS5 could still offer a 60fps no RT mode

That's what the article is saying...

@danzoEX Don't you know? We now buy consoles for games we can't play till 3 to 4 years after the next console releases.

@MattBoothDev
It is indeed an odd state of affairs that graphic fidelity seems to be on a downward trend along with framerates in some cases. It may well be a case of too many effects etc being added. Apart from SM2 of course, hogwarts was the game I thought looked the most pleasing on the eye last year. Not perfect, but high framerate and looked 'clean'.

@BAMozzy
I fully get what you are saying in your comments above - I just wish developers would temper their ambition (in terms of what they want to include) with their own ability level, and not overload CPUs to the extent that more or less locked 60fps is not possible in their game (even with RT off).

@BAMozzy

With all things being equal, and an Apple's to Apple's comparison, Same Resolution to Same Resolution, Same Frame Rate to Same Frame Rate, and with Ray tracing added across both PS5 and PS5 PRO systems, and (NO PSSR 300 TOPS applied, so No Tensor cores applied).

If it means that the PS5 PRO's Custom GPU lifts a much Heavier Load by implementing Ray Tracing through its Custom SoC GPU Hardware, much Differently than what the Base PS5 GPU can do, and it's doing it with much Less demand on the PS5 PRO's CPU Load, versus the Base PS5's CPU Load, so that Freed Up CPU Overhead Gained strictly from Ray Tracing is still a major Gain for the PS5 PRO, and for its Frame Rate Generation in RT Mode, and Again that's only when Comparing both Base PS5 and PS5 PRO Ray Traced Games only, and then when you Add the additional 10% OverClock, with 28% Faster Ram, and 1.2GB more Memory available, I think it Loosens that CPU Bottleneck a lot more than just with the 10% Overclocked CPU(at least for Ray Traced Games), and again that's without Factoring in PSSR at all.

P.S- A Decreased CPU Load through an Upgraded SoC GPU is still a major Gain, as long as you like RT Mode turned on and with more capable Frame Rates than the Base PS5, and that's all I'm pointing out, so no one here is saying that it's magically adding Cores to the CPU itself, and No Major Overclocking, because after all its only Overclocked 10%, we're just talking about better GPU optimized RT loading here, with less CPU load because of it, and all because of the PS5 PRO's SoC GPU Upgrade versus the Base PS5's GPU, and so I thought the Article was interesting.

Happy Gaming Bam✌!

@Onearmbandit I hope you're looking forward to playing The Last of Us - Part 1 - Remake - Remaster in 8K / 30Hz !

@RicksReflection It doesn't 'quite' work that way - its more about 'time' in ms rather than doing a LOT more with that. The cost to add RT in PS5 Pro may take 10ms of time but only 2ms of time on PS5 Pro which may enable them to hit the 16.6ms frame budget - something that 'Stops' them being able to add RT at 60fps on PS5.

It enables them maybe to do other things with that 'budget' - ie have a higher base resolution, maybe 'higher' visual settings - better draw distance for example - but the game will still run at 60fps on PS5 without 'RT' too - it's saying because the 'new' Hardware built for dedicating to accelerated RT/AI (like nVidia's Tensor cores built into nvidia GPU's do - look at DF AMD/RTX PC comparisons not just the Consoles and you'd have a much better understanding) will free up so much CPU workload that it 'would' require to implement on PS5 to that level that its likely to be 'possible' to hit 60fps with, if not much better RT than the PS5 can do at 30fps.

In other words, it can offer 'nvidia' quality RT instead of 'AMD Console' Quality RT with the same, if not 'lower' CPU time cost - but if everything else, without RT can't get above 55fps due to CPU, this WON'T be the miracle pixie dust magic you seem to be pinning your hopes on...

I'm only being realistic based on years of experience....

PASS. I’ll wait for the ps6. I got the ps4 pro and then 2 years later I’m buying a ps5 🤷‍♂️ I should have just waited.

@BAMozzy

I Aready said it wasn't Magic, which would include your sarcastic "Pixie Dust" Comment...

The Article isn't talking about using PSSR A.I to get the Extra CPU Gains, which would definitely Use the Tensor Cores, aka...300TOPS or 300 Trillion Operations Per Second inside of the GPU.

My Understanding is that there speculating about other Custom Aspects of Sony's 45% Faster GPU that's inside of the PS5 PRO, that are Custom Built Strickly for RT handling only(2x to 3x better), which then Lowers Demand on the CPU, and they Not once alluded to using the separate Custom Block set aside inside the GPU, that's strickly dedicated to the A.I Tensor Cores...aka...PSSR.

Maybe we're crossing wires somewhere, but it seems to me that the talking point was about getting that Extra CPU Headroom via Differences in the way the PS5 PRO GPU handles RT, versus the Base PS5 GPU's handling of RT with its More Demanding Work Load on its CPU when implementing its RT Method.

And Again, Not Once Referencing Using PS5 PRO's PSSR A.I to do it, there wasn't even an inference made about using PSSR anywhere inside the GPU to achieve the Higher CPU Headroom to address the Bottleneck issue, and I'm pretty sure they'd mention PSSR or A.I in that Quoted talking point in their Article, if that's what they ment.

Again, maybe one of us misinterpreting the other one, but No Worries, Nobody here believes in Fairies or Unicorns🦄, it's all about trying to have fun!

Happy Gaming BAM✌!

@Pranwell I'm glad you are able get both. That is fantastic. As I stated in my previous post, for me it's not enough to spend $500. I enjoyed my base ps4 just fine until the ps5. More options for all is always good.

It's the same every time a new piece of tech comes out, those owning the previous latest start barking

Tech advances and we get a more powerful system, it's been 4 years already, at least consoles keep it less than PC!

@Slug_full_of_metal
The gap between ps4 and pro was shorter than pro to ps5, if history stands true you're best off getting the pro version each time if you have to choose for MANY reasons, but consumers should buy as they please

But I thought they believe in generations? Double talk everywhere I look (ditto for Phil and Xbox). I’d like to echo the comments here: just focus on making fun games. The graphics are already amazing in most titles. Glad I have a Switch and ROG Ally as these are giving me way more fun than the big consoles/PCs.

@RicksReflection Think of it more in terms of 'time' and really only effects RT. If it takes 'less' CPU to achieve the same RT (or better) quality, that makes a difference between whether or not its 'too' expensive to implement at 60fps. But if the PS5 isn't doing RT at 60fps, then its actually adding 'work' to the PS5 Pro CPU to add it for Pro - its just 'cheaper' to add on Pro.

The difference is that the cost (in time) is reduced on PS5 Pro. That doesn't mean they have 'extra' to allocate for something else, it just means that it may not be as 'cost prohibitive' at 60fps as it would be on PS5.

You have a Frame Time budget - whether 33.3ms for 30fps or 16.6ms for 60fps. If RT costs '8ms' per frame on PS5, it may only cost '2ms' on Pro - 8ms is a huge amount of your Frame Budget at 60fps and why its often sacrificed on PS5 in performance modes - you get RT at 30fps or no RT at 60fps. 8ms is half the budget at 60fps, and under a quarter at 30fps.

What the article and everything else is indicating is that the PS5 Pro is much more 'likely' to offer RT at 60fps where the PS5 RT modes will be 30fps. If the game can 'run' at 60fps with RT on PS5 Pro, it will certainly run at 60fps on PS5 without it.

If it can't do 60fps (or at least over 55fps) due to CPU limitations WITHOUT RT on a PS5, then the PS5 Pro won't be able to do 60fps with/without RT either.

The PS5 actually has a lot more CPU processing over 33.3ms than the PS5 Pro CPU running 10% faster (max speed) over 16.6ms. Every 'cycle' with a 3.6Ghz CPU is 3.6bn cycles per second or 0.06bn per frame at 60fps or 0.12bn per frame at 30fps - you double the CPU resources by reducing the Frame rate. 3.85Ghz at 60fps or (or 0.064bn per frame) does NOT beat a 3.5Ghz CPU (or 0.117 per frame) at 30fps. It has almost double the amount of Cycles, therefore processing ability.

Despite the fact it has a LOT less time and 'less' processing power, it can still offer RT at 60fps where the PS5 would 'struggle' - because RT doesn't 'cost' as much frame time or CPU resources when 60fps seriously drops the amount of time, therefore the amount of 'processing' per frame the CPU can do.

@BAMozzy

For me, it seems your over complicating the issue, the Article is just basically saying:

Less CPU Used in PS5 PRO in RT Mode vs. Base PS5 RT Mode = Less CPU Load for applying Higher Frame Counts in RT Mode on the PS5 PRO versus the Higher CPU Load and Lower Frame Rate Counts used in the Base PS5 when using its RT Mode.

Just as a (simple) example, like if you Turn Off RT Mode in the Base PS5 which in turn lessens the CPU Load to achieve higher Frame Rate Counts, no one is suggesting Any SPECIFIC performance number gains, (that's you doing that) because again this is all speculation until Full Custom GPU Specs are revealed by Sony, and when you talk about Frame Times it only seems applicable in the situation where maybe there's the implementation of PS5 PRO's PSSR A.I and Maybe when using it's upscaling capabilities through Different Frame Time allotments for Different Frame Speed Targets, and the Specific Talking Point I'm talking about in the Article isn't applying PSSR to the Conversation, and if you aren't referencing PSSR, and just Frame Time differences themselves between 30 & 60 FPS, then again we Truly don't know how Efficiently the PS5 PRO's Custom SoC GPU Hardware solution is, when it applys it's Ray tracing Mode, and until we get those Specs straight from Sony, We Can't know how it Truly affects Frame Rates in Any Way.

But again, the end result seems apparent if the PS5 PRO Uses LESS CPU in RT Mode than Base PS5 does in RT Mode, then you get Less CPU Load that translates to a Lighter CPU Load, then use that Performance Gain to apply to Higher Frame Counts in RT Mode on the PS5 PRO, over what the Base PS5 can do in its RT Mode.

Which by the way still doesn't Factor in the Extra 350 MHz or 10% CPU Speed increase and ALL of the other Upgrades that the PS5 PRO has to apply more Frames to the mix, but if you asked me about how many Frames Total with Everything taken into account?

I Can't Know and Wouldn't Pretend to know, but again, until Sony releases those Complete GPU Specs and addresses how the Complete Architecture will all work in unison together, Nobody can Truly Know what the difference is, and so Everything's a Blind Guess.

But like I've said before, it's Exciting and Fun to Speculate about it.

By the way, sorry for all the EDIT's, it's Early in the morning, so I have Extreme Brain Fog, so I keep having to edit it, to prevent it from being one giant unintelligible Run On Sentence and I'm not Fully convinced that I've achieved that yet...😂

Happy Gaming BAM✌!

@Thumper 😂 God no!

Might seem odd but the only way I’d consider the ps5 pro was if it played ps3 games

@Robinsad

Lol...😂

I'm still gonna get the PS5 PRO, but I'm with you, because joking aside, I would Definitely Pay a Higher Premium to have Sony throw PS3 Backwards Capability in it too....an almost all in 1 console...3,..4, and 5... Woohoo!🤣

@LifeGirl Spot on! I sound like an old man, but I tell my kids about the PS2/Xbox era where games were just fun. The graphics were good enough, but there was always something new and exciting to play.

Games now feel stale- the same safe big budget sequels pumped out year after year.

Lol and just like launch they'll all be bought by scumholes and put on eBay/marketplace, Sony need to offer these consoles exclusively to current long term PS5 owners(2+ years) for 6 months before offering it up for public purchase, otherwise there is literally no point to buying limits or pre-orders.

@__jamiie wise words sir, truly wise