I'll see your Secret Agent Clank and raise you 'Ratchet and Clank: All 4 One' as the worst entry. Gotta remember a big selling point of this game back in the day is it was portable.
They need to add an option to have the background theme on the 'Welcome' tab override the game tile backgrounds. So it's an actual theme similar to PS3 / PS4. Also add some custom themes to buy in the store.
Yeah they marketed themselves like the plucky underdog because they WERE the plucky underdog. They did well for themselves with that angle. Probably a little too well.
Hey, did you ever go PC like you were thinking? How has that experience been for you? Because this seems like a good bookend for me. I'm not supporting this crap anymore.
Yeah, definitely, agreed 100%. We all enjoy the same hobby and we want it to be better. Naturally we all have different ideas about that based on our different personal experiences.
I don't get what Sony is doing. I don't get what Microsoft is doing. I grew up playing Final Fantasy on PS1 AND I remember going to HALO LAN parties in my teens. It was about fun, and it was awesome. Money always gets in the way. They always just want more while giving us less, and this console perfectly encapsulates that for me.
I can't believe the PS1 broke into the market by placing itself as the plucky underdog compared to the stoic, corporate, clinical monster it is today. Maybe nostalgia talking a bit there, I don't know. It's unrecognizable to me now. I won't talk about Microsoft or else this comment would be too long. I guess we grew up and things changed.
I just want this hobby to stay as awesome for others as it was for me back then. I don't think people coming in at the PS3/360 and after have any idea how much has been taken away. If they did, they'd demand more. I get certain market realities exist, but customers (not consumers) can always demand more. I hope they vote with their wallets with the Pro.
Yeah, everyone should remain respectful. The "You are too poor for this" versus the "If you buy this you are an idiot" remarks help nobody.
If you feel this checks all the boxes for you, then that's it. I worry about the broader market trends associated with this, or the fact it might set a precedent to release digital only consoles going forward. Those are personal concerns, though.
I sincerely hope this bombs, because it represents a future I don't want, i.e. high prices / digital only. Some people aren't too fussed about it though, and I can't really have bad feelings about that.
I never thought I'd agree with you on anything, but hell might be freezing over. Because you hit the nail on the head here. To add to your points, the main point of contention for me is not the price, it is the removal of the disc drive.
The demographic they are targeting and that has the money to buy this is still attached to physical media more than any other subsection of the market. And they pulled the disc drive. So who is this for?
It's not for little Fortnight Billy buying vBucks with his mom's credit card or COD Bro #73859593. And at that same time it isn't exactly a premium product either made to target the bleeding market hardcore crowd, is it? Considering they removed a major component of the base model.
That's the thing, I'm guessing R&D costs for this were pretty low. They added a new GPU and racing stripes on the side, essentially. It has a slightly different form factor but similar enough they can make it compatible with the disc drive attachment. It's 95% the same thing as the base model.
I think this is a cheap patchwork overall. Mark Cerny probably put it together over the course of a weekend in his basement. And I think that was intentional because I'm sure they don't anticipate blockbuster sales on this.
Called it yesterday in another push square article about the disc drive add ons selling out after this announcement. Sony doesn't seem to keep a lot of certain items on hand. The Dualsense Edge stick modules have been sold out for months and have been targeted by scalpers.
Ever since the PS5 scalping bonanza I was always wondering, do these guys like get together and coordinate their schemes together? Turns out that yeah, there are forums all these scumbags hang out and discuss what the next thing they are gonna scalp / sell shopping bots to each other. Disc drive add on seems like a prime target right now.
Funny, I remember they made the EXACT same argument at the launch of the PS3. "It's actually a good deal for what you are getting because it has a Blu-ray player."
Yeah a $200,000 Ferrari is probably a good deal for what you get, doesn't mean people can afford it. The PS3 launched at that price and Sony spent the vast majority of that gen catching up to Xbox.
Well, this is about as nasty as it gets. Won't be participating, but just a heads up to people, Playstation Direct has a tendency to run out of stock on accessories. If you are sure you are gonna preorder this and know you are gonna want the disc drive attachment, I'd pick the drive attachment up now as those might go out of stock if their other item outages (RIP Edge stick module stock) are any indication.
I mean, they gotta know what the demand is for this, so the only difficulty I can foresee is they just don't make that many. The online reaction to this has been astoundingly negative across all channels and corners of the internet. Absolutely getting blasted, everywhere. The YouTube official reveal video is getting ratioed to the depths. I'm honestly surprised they haven't disabled comments yet, it's that bad.
Buuuuut, that means better odds for those that are interested, so that's 👍. Despite me being somewhat disgusted by this, I'd rather real gamers get their hands on it than scalpers.
If you are truly interested, I'd jump on preorders when they open, just to be on the safe side.
Hit the nail so hard on the head. PushSquare is the hardcore crowd to a T. We are the exact target market for this. And only 10% of us interested. Extrapolate that to the wider audience and well... this is gonna be ugly.
Don't forget the vertical stand (batteries not included).
Man I used to talk smack on the PS4 Pro back in the day. But compared to this, it looks like the deal of the century. At least it added 4k and enhanced VR compatibility, that was actually a meaningful jump. Now we are splitting hairs about framerate and more foliage. What a joke.
Well PS4 Pro sold 14.3 million lifetime to put it in perspective. That wasn't considered that great at the time, and PS4 Pro certainly had its detractors for sure, but it was objectively a much more attractive package than whatever this is.
It will do a lot more than 100k units because this is Sony we are talking about here. But it will still sell miserably by any measure. I suspect the R&D costs to slap this together were pretty low, I would be soooo curious what their break even point in sales for this would be.
My theory: Sony does a lot of market research - they know full well and with statistical certainty this is going to bomb, but the Pro release is more about refreshing the brand than creating revenue.
It's not marketed to true enthusiasts if it doesn't come standard with a disc drive. I'm not sure who this is for. As it stands, this does less than a base model. No disc drive out of the box is a severe handicap.
I've bought all their new hardware for the last 15 years, day one. I am the target market for this, I think. Bought the PS4 Pro, the VR, the VR2, the Edge controller, the Portal, virtually everything they've put out, a bajillion Sony headsets, all the rest. Multiple PS5s at this point. And I wouldn't touch this with a ten foot pole.
I'm - really - curious to see how many units they move with this. It's cheaper than PC but only just at that price. Though it's not the price that bothers me necessarily is what I'm saying, it's the entire concept of it.
I was hoping for this too. As a total package, this Pro model looks extremely lazy and patchworked together. Doubt there will be any meaningful upgrade to VR2 games like the PS4 Pro offered, unfortunately.
This will bomb. I'd bet my firstborn on it. Price, debatable upgrade, no disc drive for the hardcore crowd that prefers physical. Yup, I'll bet anyone 100 bucks right here, right now this flops bad. I'm not saying that for theatrical effect, who wants to take me up on the bet?
The PS4 Pro was pretty niche, only sold 14.3 million (out of 110+ million total units sold).
This won't do a third of even that. Betting under 4 million sales in the next 5 years. Call me Michael Pachter. I think this is more a marketing stunt to create brand interest / brand refresh. Looks low effort design-wise and upgrade is absolutely, entirely negligible.
Listen up Sony: You. Have. Not. Fully. Utilized. The. Base. PS5. Do better.
Also, maybe make the high priced luxury model come standard with a disc drive, as your hardcore target market gravitates more towards physical games compared to the casual consumer. Geez, someone send these guys back to business school.
You got me dead to rights there lol. Except on sites like this, I hide the fact I even play games let alone trophy hunt. Not something I advertise in my day to day. It just wouldn't go down well in my work culture let's just say. So I blabber on about it here 😆
Awesome yeah, couldn't have said it better myself. I think you summarized it well.
To meet you halfway on this, I agree there are extremes where it does come off as work as you say. This situation mentioned in the article, I think very few if any enjoyed a 50 hour Concord marathon jumping off a cliff. I doubt their employers appreciated them calling in sick either, but I digress haha. There is a absolutely no skill element, just an abundance of free time.
The question is (and I honestly don't have an answer) is when does the challenge become an obsession that damages the overall experience?Because I too have often heard comments about someone getting a tough trophy and saying something like, "That nearly broke me" and just really almost defeatist remarks. Just pure expressions of this was not fun. I'd have to agree that is not a great way to engage with something that should be relaxing / fulfilling / enjoyable.
To offer a personal example, I did this for Destruction All Stars. I don't hate the game, but I intensely disliked getting the platinum. The game was fun on a basic level and just turned intensely unenjoyable through grind. It made me reflect why I did it and I almost stopped trophy hunting because I realized how silly it was and how I essentially wasted my time.
My solution was I would never go for a platinum just for a digital trinket, but it had to be a game I enjoyed. And I've stuck with that so far. I guess it's down to the individual, because I'm sure there is some sick SOB out there that actually enjoyed grinding that game for 70 hours. I can tell you nobody in my group did though.
Also, has to be mentioned (touched on it in an earlier comment), the trophy system was originally meant to be more of a community feature (PlayStation Home) - show off your trophies, talk about the game, shared interest, start groups to work on a trophy, etc. Now, after PS has killed off almost all community features since PS3, trophy hunting has become a more solitary endeavor and something of a bastardization of what it was originally supposed to be. The community aspect that remains is confined to third party websites like PSNprofiles.
So I understand why people don't get it these days. It used to be a fun nexus into the community aspects of Playstation, which are now long gone. Sorry for long comment.
Well I still think you were a champ for trying. You waded into the comments section like a gladiator ready for battle. Sammy's turn I guess 😆 Got any tips for him?
As a random aside, it's gotta get pretty old getting slammed with comments and insults from strangers online. Sticks and stones right, but that would just get to me after awhile. Well, props to you guys anyways.
Yo, Liam did this article four years ago. He did a soapbox article calling Witcher 3 a 'games as a service' title because it had some free content updates after release.
He got crucified in the comment section (hope it goes better this time). I think you did a better job than he did last time, more of an open to interpretation approach. Really, 'live service' is pretty nebulous and vague so I guess it just depends on how you define that. Does it require a game's ongoing content be monetized, or does it include free stuff too? Online only versus offline games?
If so, Silent Hill 2 on PS2 was live service as the greatest hits release added a story chapter. How far do we take this definition? As by this logic, virtually every modern game is 'live service', which isn't how that term is generally meant or how it's used in context. Well, I don't claim to be the decider of definitions. Interesting topic, I think the goal posts are moving slowly on what makes "live service" what it is.
I don't know, I get a lot of enjoyment out of the sarcastic comments. It's like a fine pallette cleanser between everyone else arguing about minutiae with the conviction and fervor of 13th century witch hunters during the Spanish Inquisition. Every overly serious internet comment section needs a sarcastic remark to bring us all back to earth.
That's the thing, I don't think you can play a game "wrong". Weird that some of the more unfriendly corners of any community - including some trophy hunter types - view your way as extremely wrong / lazy / whatever negative term. Who's to say? I'm talking about the "get gud scrub" crowd we all know and collectively resent.
Now for the record, I find the "get good" mentality supremely ridiculous. Do I think you need to beat all the legendary simulator battles in Final Fantasy Rebirth to be a 'true gamer' (TM)? Heck no. Did I? Yes. Did I have fun? Absolutely, yeah. I felt it was the only portion of the game that requires actual strategy and thought in your loadout. Where you are tested on all the mechanics of the game instead of just spamming buttons. See, the main game was actually the part of the game I disliked - I found it boring in terms of gameplay, absolutely basic.
Different strokes and all that. I don't see your way as wrong either, I think that would be very arrogant and foolish of me to try to impose hard right and wrongs on entertainment, like we are doing our taxes or something. It's supposed to be fun!
Absolutely, I just look at it as an alternate way to engage with a game. Props on the shmup database, now that's a genre that requires some dedication. I can say that's one of the genres I wasn't so interested in but that trophy hunting exposed me to, and I really enjoyed it / kicking myself for not trying sooner. To me, probably the most inaccessible from a skill standpoint, but when it clicks, it clicks.
I still replay Einhander a few times a year. Such a good game and my favorite shoot em up of all time. Vanark and R-Type Delta on PS1 deserve some special mention too.
We all have our quirky ways about us. Trophies are odd from the perspective of someone that plays games purely to relax after a long day. I get that. I just really love the challenge.
I'd also add that trophy hunting has brought me to try different genres and expand my horizons, which has led me to playing games I thought I'd dislike, but loved. It takes you out of your comfort zone, which sounds like a weird thing to say about something that is entertainment. Sort of like that Dark Souls-like challenge and sense of accomplishment that gets talked up so much. Trophies give you that same dopamine hit.
It also pushes you to play games in new ways. Speedruns, find all the collectibles, hard mode, pull off this rare combination of things, etc. Some games you look at in a whole new light after you engage with it in a novel / weird way, and that's cool.
Go plat Devil May Cry 5 or Wipeout HD and even the most cynical gamer would want to tell someone about that accomplishment - not to brag, because that is ridiculous, but just to share the experience. Trophies do that for you. It's a cool idea and I really enjoy it.
Been trophy hunting since the first Uncharted patched trophies in back in '09 I think. I don't do stuff like this, I have a more smooth and steady wins the race mentality I guess. Closing in on 200 platinums- all games I wanted to play, no shovelware to pad the numbers. Keep in mind that those were stretched out over 15 years though.
I've received a lot of crap about it from nearly everyone in my life. "Why do you care?" " Why do you do that?"
Well, my best answer is I was pretty OCD about 100% completion in games long before trophies existed, so it more complimented how I already played games (get all the collectibles, kill the secret boss, etc.). Plus, even for not so great games, I feel somewhat compelled to see everything in the game, because I know each little bit took a lot of work. Sort of an homage to the devs in a weird way.
I work 60 hours a week, have a lot of other obligations on top. Trophy hunting is my stress reliever. All these "no life" comments make me scratch my head. It's just fun. I know it doesn't mean anything but it's cool to me to have an inventory of my game achievements and a meta aspect to gaming scratches my compulsive itch like no other.
I think something people do forget also is trophies were initially pitched as a component of Playstation Home, Sony's weird second life app on PS3. Originally, the plan was to be able to display your trophies in your digital apartment. A cool idea that sadly was never implemented. Luckily, the trophy system took on a life of its own. And here we are.
What I would really love is a system-level trophy leaderboard like Xbox has.
Yes, couldn't agree more. I know the argument is they can do both GaaS and single player, then everyone is happy, but I really still don't buy that. One comes at the cost of the other. I mean, I don't think the Sony 2024 first party drought and the push for live service happening at pretty much the exact same time is any kind of coincidence - I believe there is a strong causal relationship there.
They really need to figure out how they want to proceed going forward. Look, I've never spent 20 bucks on a skin, ever. So I guess there's less money short term if they pursue me as a target market. But I - have - bought every Sony first party game they've released so far, even the re-releases (Concord being the one and only exception). Bought every piece of hardware. That's us, the "hardcore" market (hate the term). It's less money up front because we aren't engaging with the digital casinos masquerading as games, but we are more reliable and longer term customers. I feel Sony's new approach is bad business focusing too much on short term.
I did forget, I got Rebirth at launch so I guess it was 4. I definitely will pick up Wukong at some point! Stellar Blade, Dragon's Dogma, and a few others are interesting, but I just haven't felt the need to pull the trigger on those.
Being a big horror buff, I'm very excited about Silent Hill 2 and the physical release of Alan Wake 2. So the tail end of the year is packed for me too.
Besides that, definitely some strong indie showings. Balatro was awesome. Dredge and Cult of the Lamb had some new DLC. The Prince of Persia game and, surprisingly, Contra: Operation Galuga brought it home as well. Then the Microsoft releases, Pentiment and Hi Fi Rush. So the indie scene has been strong and saved the year for me. AAA releases I've mostly dodged.
Now that I'm taking a mental inventory, I think I just like indie games better these days 😆. But definitely excited for Astrobot.
Wow, you said it better than I could've. I'm not saying I represent the average gamer, but I am lucky enough to have a decent amount of discretionary income to spend. But there just isn't that much I'm interested in. In years past, I would buy 25-40 games. This year? I have purchased three day one releases - Tekken 8, Baldur's Gate 3, and now Astro Bot. That's it.
These publishers aren't making anything I want. Too busy chasing Fortnight money. You, me, your friend group you mentioned - we are the long money. The Fortnight / Apex Legends kids, they are fly by night. Big profits up front but it's not long term, they'll go to the next big thing tomorrow or the next day.
These big publishers are all gonna get a huge wake up call in the next 10 years when they have to pivot and desperately try to claw back the aging hardcore crowd they threw away so their CEOs could get bigger bonuses. Looks like Ubisoft is getting theirs early.
The odd thing is everyone at Sony knew this was coming months ago. They had the preorder numbers well in advance and would have known this game was on track to bomb spectacularly.
Explains the limited marketing in the lead up to release. Firewalk was ominously quiet before the game's launch. They already knew what was about to happen.
Played for the first time yesterday. This game plays a weird trick on my mind because essentially you are not even pushing any buttons, just moving around. And it's really damn fun.
So I'm starting to question myself and how I consume entertainment. It is barely interactive. And I love it. The graphics are terrible. And I love it. I can't get too introspective about it though or try to dissect why it is fun, it just is.
Comments 910
Re: Palworld Struck by Nintendo Lawsuit Days Prior to Predicted PS5 Reveal
Nintendo's lawyers strike again.
Re: Play the Worst Ratchet & Clank on PS5, PS4 with PS Plus Premium
I'll see your Secret Agent Clank and raise you 'Ratchet and Clank: All 4 One' as the worst entry. Gotta remember a big selling point of this game back in the day is it was portable.
Re: Feature: Everything You Can Do in PS5's New Welcome Hub
They need to add an option to have the background theme on the 'Welcome' tab override the game tile backgrounds. So it's an actual theme similar to PS3 / PS4. Also add some custom themes to buy in the store.
Re: PS5 Pro Reveal Is Already Sony's Most Disliked Console Announcement
@NEStalgia
Yeah they marketed themselves like the plucky underdog because they WERE the plucky underdog. They did well for themselves with that angle. Probably a little too well.
Hey, did you ever go PC like you were thinking? How has that experience been for you? Because this seems like a good bookend for me. I'm not supporting this crap anymore.
PushSquare should do a PC-specific sister site.
Re: PS5 Pro Reveal Is Already Sony's Most Disliked Console Announcement
@NEStalgia
That's it in a nutshell. For those of us that know, know. They push these changes incrementally like boiling a frog. This is a market test.
It all started with a 2.99 horse armor DLC. Now we live in microtransaction hell. That was a very gradual thing.
Re: PS5 Pro Reveal Is Already Sony's Most Disliked Console Announcement
@Banjo-
Yeah, definitely, agreed 100%. We all enjoy the same hobby and we want it to be better. Naturally we all have different ideas about that based on our different personal experiences.
I don't get what Sony is doing. I don't get what Microsoft is doing. I grew up playing Final Fantasy on PS1 AND I remember going to HALO LAN parties in my teens. It was about fun, and it was awesome. Money always gets in the way. They always just want more while giving us less, and this console perfectly encapsulates that for me.
I can't believe the PS1 broke into the market by placing itself as the plucky underdog compared to the stoic, corporate, clinical monster it is today. Maybe nostalgia talking a bit there, I don't know. It's unrecognizable to me now. I won't talk about Microsoft or else this comment would be too long. I guess we grew up and things changed.
I just want this hobby to stay as awesome for others as it was for me back then. I don't think people coming in at the PS3/360 and after have any idea how much has been taken away. If they did, they'd demand more. I get certain market realities exist, but customers (not consumers) can always demand more. I hope they vote with their wallets with the Pro.
Re: PS5 Pro Reveal Is Already Sony's Most Disliked Console Announcement
@twitchtvpat
Yeah, everyone should remain respectful. The "You are too poor for this" versus the "If you buy this you are an idiot" remarks help nobody.
If you feel this checks all the boxes for you, then that's it. I worry about the broader market trends associated with this, or the fact it might set a precedent to release digital only consoles going forward. Those are personal concerns, though.
I sincerely hope this bombs, because it represents a future I don't want, i.e. high prices / digital only. Some people aren't too fussed about it though, and I can't really have bad feelings about that.
Re: PS5 Pro Reveal Is Already Sony's Most Disliked Console Announcement
@Banjo-
I never thought I'd agree with you on anything, but hell might be freezing over. Because you hit the nail on the head here. To add to your points, the main point of contention for me is not the price, it is the removal of the disc drive.
The demographic they are targeting and that has the money to buy this is still attached to physical media more than any other subsection of the market. And they pulled the disc drive. So who is this for?
It's not for little Fortnight Billy buying vBucks with his mom's credit card or COD Bro #73859593. And at that same time it isn't exactly a premium product either made to target the bleeding market hardcore crowd, is it? Considering they removed a major component of the base model.
I... really don't get this.
Re: PS5 Pro Reveal Is Already Sony's Most Disliked Console Announcement
@roe
That's the thing, I'm guessing R&D costs for this were pretty low. They added a new GPU and racing stripes on the side, essentially. It has a slightly different form factor but similar enough they can make it compatible with the disc drive attachment. It's 95% the same thing as the base model.
I think this is a cheap patchwork overall. Mark Cerny probably put it together over the course of a weekend in his basement. And I think that was intentional because I'm sure they don't anticipate blockbuster sales on this.
Re: Prospective PS5 Pro Buyers Cause Surge in Disc Drive Sales
Called it yesterday in another push square article about the disc drive add ons selling out after this announcement. Sony doesn't seem to keep a lot of certain items on hand. The Dualsense Edge stick modules have been sold out for months and have been targeted by scalpers.
Ever since the PS5 scalping bonanza I was always wondering, do these guys like get together and coordinate their schemes together? Turns out that yeah, there are forums all these scumbags hang out and discuss what the next thing they are gonna scalp / sell shopping bots to each other. Disc drive add on seems like a prime target right now.
Re: 'It Makes Sense Why the PS5 Pro Price Is So High,' Say Tech Experts
Funny, I remember they made the EXACT same argument at the launch of the PS3. "It's actually a good deal for what you are getting because it has a Blu-ray player."
Yeah a $200,000 Ferrari is probably a good deal for what you get, doesn't mean people can afford it. The PS3 launched at that price and Sony spent the vast majority of that gen catching up to Xbox.
Re: 'It Felt Like Putting New Glasses On,' Claims First PS5 Pro Hands On
Well for less than the price of a PS5 Pro, you can go out and buy a pair of glasses CNET. Heck, pick up two pairs.
Re: Despite Price Point, Analyst Firm Expects PS5 Pro to Sell Like PS4 Pro
I owned two PS4 Pros. I will not be buying this.
This analysis is incorrect and extremely superficial / doesn't dig into the context of the situation.
I don't see it breaking 5 million lifetime. These analysts are almost constantly wrong, about everything.
Re: How to Pre-Order PS5 Pro
@kyleforrester87
Okay, you got me with this one.
Re: Poll: Are You Sold on PS5 Pro?
@NEStalgia
It better rub my feet and tell me I'm pretty.
We need Jack Tretton back. Good lord, what are we gonna do with this company.
Re: How to Pre-Order PS5 Pro
Well, this is about as nasty as it gets. Won't be participating, but just a heads up to people, Playstation Direct has a tendency to run out of stock on accessories. If you are sure you are gonna preorder this and know you are gonna want the disc drive attachment, I'd pick the drive attachment up now as those might go out of stock if their other item outages (RIP Edge stick module stock) are any indication.
Re: Poll: Are You Sold on PS5 Pro?
@SoulChimera
I mean, they gotta know what the demand is for this, so the only difficulty I can foresee is they just don't make that many. The online reaction to this has been astoundingly negative across all channels and corners of the internet. Absolutely getting blasted, everywhere. The YouTube official reveal video is getting ratioed to the depths. I'm honestly surprised they haven't disabled comments yet, it's that bad.
Buuuuut, that means better odds for those that are interested, so that's 👍. Despite me being somewhat disgusted by this, I'd rather real gamers get their hands on it than scalpers.
If you are truly interested, I'd jump on preorders when they open, just to be on the safe side.
Re: Poll: Are You Sold on PS5 Pro?
@SoulChimera
On the plus side, based on the comments, sounds like you won't have much competition to snag one.
Re: Don't Worry, You Can Add an Ultra HD Disc Drive to PS5 Pro
@Boxmonkey
Hit the nail so hard on the head. PushSquare is the hardcore crowd to a T. We are the exact target market for this. And only 10% of us interested. Extrapolate that to the wider audience and well... this is gonna be ugly.
Re: Don't Worry, You Can Add an Ultra HD Disc Drive to PS5 Pro
@NoCode23
Don't forget the vertical stand (batteries not included).
Man I used to talk smack on the PS4 Pro back in the day. But compared to this, it looks like the deal of the century. At least it added 4k and enhanced VR compatibility, that was actually a meaningful jump. Now we are splitting hairs about framerate and more foliage. What a joke.
Re: Don't Worry, You Can Add an Ultra HD Disc Drive to PS5 Pro
@Shakybeeves
Well PS4 Pro sold 14.3 million lifetime to put it in perspective. That wasn't considered that great at the time, and PS4 Pro certainly had its detractors for sure, but it was objectively a much more attractive package than whatever this is.
It will do a lot more than 100k units because this is Sony we are talking about here. But it will still sell miserably by any measure. I suspect the R&D costs to slap this together were pretty low, I would be soooo curious what their break even point in sales for this would be.
My theory: Sony does a lot of market research - they know full well and with statistical certainty this is going to bomb, but the Pro release is more about refreshing the brand than creating revenue.
Re: Poll: Are You Sold on PS5 Pro?
@wildcat_kickz
It's not marketed to true enthusiasts if it doesn't come standard with a disc drive. I'm not sure who this is for. As it stands, this does less than a base model. No disc drive out of the box is a severe handicap.
I've bought all their new hardware for the last 15 years, day one. I am the target market for this, I think. Bought the PS4 Pro, the VR, the VR2, the Edge controller, the Portal, virtually everything they've put out, a bajillion Sony headsets, all the rest. Multiple PS5s at this point. And I wouldn't touch this with a ten foot pole.
I'm - really - curious to see how many units they move with this. It's cheaper than PC but only just at that price. Though it's not the price that bothers me necessarily is what I'm saying, it's the entire concept of it.
Re: All PS5 Pro Compatible Games
@Yozora146_
I was hoping for this too. As a total package, this Pro model looks extremely lazy and patchworked together. Doubt there will be any meaningful upgrade to VR2 games like the PS4 Pro offered, unfortunately.
Re: Don't Worry, You Can Add an Ultra HD Disc Drive to PS5 Pro
@PsBoxSwitchOwner
I dunno. We will have to consult the experts. Let's say, a flop is under 4 million lifetime sales. I offer 2:1 odds. Any takers lol?
Re: Don't Worry, You Can Add an Ultra HD Disc Drive to PS5 Pro
@Member_the_game
This will bomb. I'd bet my firstborn on it. Price, debatable upgrade, no disc drive for the hardcore crowd that prefers physical. Yup, I'll bet anyone 100 bucks right here, right now this flops bad. I'm not saying that for theatrical effect, who wants to take me up on the bet?
Re: Don't Worry, You Can Add an Ultra HD Disc Drive to PS5 Pro
The PS4 Pro was pretty niche, only sold 14.3 million (out of 110+ million total units sold).
This won't do a third of even that. Betting under 4 million sales in the next 5 years. Call me Michael Pachter. I think this is more a marketing stunt to create brand interest / brand refresh. Looks low effort design-wise and upgrade is absolutely, entirely negligible.
Listen up Sony: You. Have. Not. Fully. Utilized. The. Base. PS5. Do better.
Also, maybe make the high priced luxury model come standard with a disc drive, as your hardcore target market gravitates more towards physical games compared to the casual consumer. Geez, someone send these guys back to business school.
Re: Poll: Are You Sold on PS5 Pro?
I'd vote no twice if I could. Ridiculous.
Re: Don't Worry, You Can Add an Ultra HD Disc Drive to PS5 Pro
Nah, I'm good Sony.
Re: PS5 Pro Announced, Costs $700 and Out in November
Dead. On. Arrival.
Re: Soapbox: I Spent 3 Days with the Concord Trophy Hunters Who Dedicated Their Lives to Unlocking the PS5, PC Platinum
@EfYI
You got me dead to rights there lol. Except on sites like this, I hide the fact I even play games let alone trophy hunt. Not something I advertise in my day to day. It just wouldn't go down well in my work culture let's just say. So I blabber on about it here 😆
Re: Soapbox: I Spent 3 Days with the Concord Trophy Hunters Who Dedicated Their Lives to Unlocking the PS5, PC Platinum
@EfYI
Awesome yeah, couldn't have said it better myself. I think you summarized it well.
To meet you halfway on this, I agree there are extremes where it does come off as work as you say. This situation mentioned in the article, I think very few if any enjoyed a 50 hour Concord marathon jumping off a cliff. I doubt their employers appreciated them calling in sick either, but I digress haha. There is a absolutely no skill element, just an abundance of free time.
The question is (and I honestly don't have an answer) is when does the challenge become an obsession that damages the overall experience?Because I too have often heard comments about someone getting a tough trophy and saying something like, "That nearly broke me" and just really almost defeatist remarks. Just pure expressions of this was not fun. I'd have to agree that is not a great way to engage with something that should be relaxing / fulfilling / enjoyable.
To offer a personal example, I did this for Destruction All Stars. I don't hate the game, but I intensely disliked getting the platinum. The game was fun on a basic level and just turned intensely unenjoyable through grind. It made me reflect why I did it and I almost stopped trophy hunting because I realized how silly it was and how I essentially wasted my time.
My solution was I would never go for a platinum just for a digital trinket, but it had to be a game I enjoyed. And I've stuck with that so far. I guess it's down to the individual, because I'm sure there is some sick SOB out there that actually enjoyed grinding that game for 70 hours. I can tell you nobody in my group did though.
Also, has to be mentioned (touched on it in an earlier comment), the trophy system was originally meant to be more of a community feature (PlayStation Home) - show off your trophies, talk about the game, shared interest, start groups to work on a trophy, etc. Now, after PS has killed off almost all community features since PS3, trophy hunting has become a more solitary endeavor and something of a bastardization of what it was originally supposed to be. The community aspect that remains is confined to third party websites like PSNprofiles.
So I understand why people don't get it these days. It used to be a fun nexus into the community aspects of Playstation, which are now long gone. Sorry for long comment.
Re: Soapbox: Astro's Playroom PS5 Did Live Service and You Didn't Even Notice
@LiamCroft
Well I still think you were a champ for trying. You waded into the comments section like a gladiator ready for battle. Sammy's turn I guess 😆 Got any tips for him?
As a random aside, it's gotta get pretty old getting slammed with comments and insults from strangers online. Sticks and stones right, but that would just get to me after awhile. Well, props to you guys anyways.
Re: Soapbox: Astro's Playroom PS5 Did Live Service and You Didn't Even Notice
@get2sammyb
Yo, Liam did this article four years ago. He did a soapbox article calling Witcher 3 a 'games as a service' title because it had some free content updates after release.
He got crucified in the comment section (hope it goes better this time). I think you did a better job than he did last time, more of an open to interpretation approach. Really, 'live service' is pretty nebulous and vague so I guess it just depends on how you define that. Does it require a game's ongoing content be monetized, or does it include free stuff too? Online only versus offline games?
If so, Silent Hill 2 on PS2 was live service as the greatest hits release added a story chapter. How far do we take this definition? As by this logic, virtually every modern game is 'live service', which isn't how that term is generally meant or how it's used in context. Well, I don't claim to be the decider of definitions. Interesting topic, I think the goal posts are moving slowly on what makes "live service" what it is.
I dunno, YOU decide!
Re: Soapbox: I Spent 3 Days with the Concord Trophy Hunters Who Dedicated Their Lives to Unlocking the PS5, PC Platinum
@Bamila
Bad dog!
Re: Soapbox: I Spent 3 Days with the Concord Trophy Hunters Who Dedicated Their Lives to Unlocking the PS5, PC Platinum
@Czar_Khastik
I don't know, I get a lot of enjoyment out of the sarcastic comments. It's like a fine pallette cleanser between everyone else arguing about minutiae with the conviction and fervor of 13th century witch hunters during the Spanish Inquisition. Every overly serious internet comment section needs a sarcastic remark to bring us all back to earth.
Re: Soapbox: I Spent 3 Days with the Concord Trophy Hunters Who Dedicated Their Lives to Unlocking the PS5, PC Platinum
@EfYI
That's the thing, I don't think you can play a game "wrong". Weird that some of the more unfriendly corners of any community - including some trophy hunter types - view your way as extremely wrong / lazy / whatever negative term. Who's to say? I'm talking about the "get gud scrub" crowd we all know and collectively resent.
Now for the record, I find the "get good" mentality supremely ridiculous. Do I think you need to beat all the legendary simulator battles in Final Fantasy Rebirth to be a 'true gamer' (TM)? Heck no. Did I? Yes. Did I have fun? Absolutely, yeah. I felt it was the only portion of the game that requires actual strategy and thought in your loadout. Where you are tested on all the mechanics of the game instead of just spamming buttons. See, the main game was actually the part of the game I disliked - I found it boring in terms of gameplay, absolutely basic.
Different strokes and all that. I don't see your way as wrong either, I think that would be very arrogant and foolish of me to try to impose hard right and wrongs on entertainment, like we are doing our taxes or something. It's supposed to be fun!
Re: Soapbox: I Spent 3 Days with the Concord Trophy Hunters Who Dedicated Their Lives to Unlocking the PS5, PC Platinum
@jrt87
Absolutely, I just look at it as an alternate way to engage with a game. Props on the shmup database, now that's a genre that requires some dedication. I can say that's one of the genres I wasn't so interested in but that trophy hunting exposed me to, and I really enjoyed it / kicking myself for not trying sooner. To me, probably the most inaccessible from a skill standpoint, but when it clicks, it clicks.
I still replay Einhander a few times a year. Such a good game and my favorite shoot em up of all time. Vanark and R-Type Delta on PS1 deserve some special mention too.
We all have our quirky ways about us. Trophies are odd from the perspective of someone that plays games purely to relax after a long day. I get that. I just really love the challenge.
Re: Soapbox: I Spent 3 Days with the Concord Trophy Hunters Who Dedicated Their Lives to Unlocking the PS5, PC Platinum
I'd also add that trophy hunting has brought me to try different genres and expand my horizons, which has led me to playing games I thought I'd dislike, but loved. It takes you out of your comfort zone, which sounds like a weird thing to say about something that is entertainment. Sort of like that Dark Souls-like challenge and sense of accomplishment that gets talked up so much. Trophies give you that same dopamine hit.
It also pushes you to play games in new ways. Speedruns, find all the collectibles, hard mode, pull off this rare combination of things, etc. Some games you look at in a whole new light after you engage with it in a novel / weird way, and that's cool.
Go plat Devil May Cry 5 or Wipeout HD and even the most cynical gamer would want to tell someone about that accomplishment - not to brag, because that is ridiculous, but just to share the experience. Trophies do that for you. It's a cool idea and I really enjoy it.
Re: Soapbox: I Spent 3 Days with the Concord Trophy Hunters Who Dedicated Their Lives to Unlocking the PS5, PC Platinum
Been trophy hunting since the first Uncharted patched trophies in back in '09 I think. I don't do stuff like this, I have a more smooth and steady wins the race mentality I guess. Closing in on 200 platinums- all games I wanted to play, no shovelware to pad the numbers. Keep in mind that those were stretched out over 15 years though.
I've received a lot of crap about it from nearly everyone in my life. "Why do you care?" " Why do you do that?"
Well, my best answer is I was pretty OCD about 100% completion in games long before trophies existed, so it more complimented how I already played games (get all the collectibles, kill the secret boss, etc.). Plus, even for not so great games, I feel somewhat compelled to see everything in the game, because I know each little bit took a lot of work. Sort of an homage to the devs in a weird way.
I work 60 hours a week, have a lot of other obligations on top. Trophy hunting is my stress reliever. All these "no life" comments make me scratch my head. It's just fun. I know it doesn't mean anything but it's cool to me to have an inventory of my game achievements and a meta aspect to gaming scratches my compulsive itch like no other.
I think something people do forget also is trophies were initially pitched as a component of Playstation Home, Sony's weird second life app on PS3. Originally, the plan was to be able to display your trophies in your digital apartment. A cool idea that sadly was never implemented. Luckily, the trophy system took on a life of its own. And here we are.
What I would really love is a system-level trophy leaderboard like Xbox has.
Re: Random: Gearbox Founder, CEO Compares Company to The Beatles, Gets Roasted
The only thing Randy Pitchford and the Beatles have in common is a cocaine addiction.
This guy is the Joe Exotic of game development.
Re: Star Wars Outlaws, XDefiant Disappointments Pour Pain on Ubisoft's Share Prices
@Rich33
Yes, couldn't agree more. I know the argument is they can do both GaaS and single player, then everyone is happy, but I really still don't buy that. One comes at the cost of the other. I mean, I don't think the Sony 2024 first party drought and the push for live service happening at pretty much the exact same time is any kind of coincidence - I believe there is a strong causal relationship there.
They really need to figure out how they want to proceed going forward. Look, I've never spent 20 bucks on a skin, ever. So I guess there's less money short term if they pursue me as a target market. But I - have - bought every Sony first party game they've released so far, even the re-releases (Concord being the one and only exception). Bought every piece of hardware. That's us, the "hardcore" market (hate the term). It's less money up front because we aren't engaging with the digital casinos masquerading as games, but we are more reliable and longer term customers. I feel Sony's new approach is bad business focusing too much on short term.
All that aside, have fun with Astrobot 👍
Re: Star Wars Outlaws, XDefiant Disappointments Pour Pain on Ubisoft's Share Prices
@somnambulance
I did forget, I got Rebirth at launch so I guess it was 4. I definitely will pick up Wukong at some point! Stellar Blade, Dragon's Dogma, and a few others are interesting, but I just haven't felt the need to pull the trigger on those.
Being a big horror buff, I'm very excited about Silent Hill 2 and the physical release of Alan Wake 2. So the tail end of the year is packed for me too.
Besides that, definitely some strong indie showings. Balatro was awesome. Dredge and Cult of the Lamb had some new DLC. The Prince of Persia game and, surprisingly, Contra: Operation Galuga brought it home as well. Then the Microsoft releases, Pentiment and Hi Fi Rush. So the indie scene has been strong and saved the year for me. AAA releases I've mostly dodged.
Now that I'm taking a mental inventory, I think I just like indie games better these days 😆. But definitely excited for Astrobot.
Re: Star Wars Outlaws, XDefiant Disappointments Pour Pain on Ubisoft's Share Prices
@somnambulance
Wow, you said it better than I could've. I'm not saying I represent the average gamer, but I am lucky enough to have a decent amount of discretionary income to spend. But there just isn't that much I'm interested in. In years past, I would buy 25-40 games. This year? I have purchased three day one releases - Tekken 8, Baldur's Gate 3, and now Astro Bot. That's it.
These publishers aren't making anything I want. Too busy chasing Fortnight money. You, me, your friend group you mentioned - we are the long money. The Fortnight / Apex Legends kids, they are fly by night. Big profits up front but it's not long term, they'll go to the next big thing tomorrow or the next day.
These big publishers are all gonna get a huge wake up call in the next 10 years when they have to pivot and desperately try to claw back the aging hardcore crowd they threw away so their CEOs could get bigger bonuses. Looks like Ubisoft is getting theirs early.
Re: PS5, PC Shooter Concord Dead on Arrival, Is Being Taken Offline This Week as Dev 'Explores Options'
@zebric21
Right you are. Let's keep our fingers crossed.
Re: PS5, PC Shooter Concord Dead on Arrival, Is Being Taken Offline This Week as Dev 'Explores Options'
@djlard
Nah multiplayer only unfortunately.
The first one had single player though.
Re: PS5, PC Shooter Concord Dead on Arrival, Is Being Taken Offline This Week as Dev 'Explores Options'
So...
Who's ready for Fairgames?
Re: PS5, PC Shooter Concord Dead on Arrival, Is Being Taken Offline This Week as Dev 'Explores Options'
And Astro Bot will sell buckets. Are you getting the message, Sony? Can the people in the back (Hulst and the clueless investors) hear us yet?
Re: PS5, PC Shooter Concord Dead on Arrival, Is Being Taken Offline This Week as Dev 'Explores Options'
Annnnnnd it's gone.
Re: Concord Devs Maintain Radio Silence, Which Isn't Helping Matters
The odd thing is everyone at Sony knew this was coming months ago. They had the preorder numbers well in advance and would have known this game was on track to bomb spectacularly.
Explains the limited marketing in the lead up to release. Firewalk was ominously quiet before the game's launch. They already knew what was about to happen.
Re: Mini Review: Vampire Survivors (PS5) - Indie Icon Should Come with a Health Warning
Played for the first time yesterday. This game plays a weird trick on my mind because essentially you are not even pushing any buttons, just moving around. And it's really damn fun.
So I'm starting to question myself and how I consume entertainment. It is barely interactive. And I love it. The graphics are terrible. And I love it. I can't get too introspective about it though or try to dissect why it is fun, it just is.