Soapbox: I Don't Understand Service Games That Don't Add Trophies

If you need the operating system to give you a reward for playing instead of the game itself, you have a problem.

Ratchet and Clank killed off skill points for Trophies, and Rift Apart doesnt even have you do everything to "Complete" it in many gamers eyes.

The fact a game's value, replayability and enjoyment now seemingly comes from how much the developers let the system itself reward you is...baffling to me.

At what point are you playing the game to see your profile number go up, instead of for the game itself? Are the games now not fun or not offering enough to make it worthwhile?

Same goes for Destiny 2. Since the Forsaken expansion (the last DLC they put any effort in) there were no further trophies added. Warframe should be the prime example for every f2p developer..

While I consider myself a trophyb!tch I have noticed it doesn't actually affect how long I play a game aslong as Im interested.
Example I loved days gone even with its miniscule faults but was thoroughly done after getting the platinum, but played f13 the game another 2 years after getting the platinum.

I don't care THAT much but it's always nice to have new trophies to unlock. Unless it doesn't seem fun for me, in which case I won't bother. I've played certain games several times or did challenges that I probably would never have bothered cause there were trophies to unlock. Dead by Daylight for example always adds new trophies for each new chapter, which I think is cool.

I agree. Adding extra challenges, especially if they contribute to a meta game, would seem to be an obvious thing to do. But then they probably know their players don’t care about new challenges for the most part, they just use them as a social space with mates.

I used to be big on collecting trophies but several little things kept adding up that led to me no longer caring.
I remember putting in the effort to 100% FF15 at launch, but now it's impossible because of the Comrades mode being split off into a separate game, making the trophies for when it was DLC impossible to obtain if you didn't beat it before that transition.

I personally never cared for them, coming from the ZX/C64/Amiga/PS1/PS2 era where we didn't have them or missed having them?

@Haruki_NLI
The game itself, via the developers, sets and gives you the reward for playing.just like before the trophy system was invented. They design the trophies so people explore and get the most out of their game, and to give fresh challenges (if they are doing it with care anyway). What are you talking about when you say an operating system giving things? the operating system only tracks accomplishments, much like some games do. In effect, it makes all games do it.

Every trophy hunters knows Rift Apart has a terrible trophy system. Past games in the franchise did it far better.

And of course games are fun without them, but they can be made more fun with them (often the trophy challenges are far harder or more involving and the story is easy to finish for those who want to see everything without challenge, which is also fine).

Does it matter that much if the game's challenges are presented in game or in the consoles operating system? Like there's no achievement system on Switch, but a lot of games have them built in to the actual game for you to track your accomplishments (Bayonetta 2 as one example). I guess you can't flex your gaming clout to your friends as easily (can still take screenshots and upload)?

@Haruki_NLI you're missing the point. It's simply further incentive for many people, not the sole reason they'd bother playing a game (ok, there are those who bought that Hanna Montana game for the easy plat, but that's the exception).

@Orpheus79V My favourite achievements were on King's Bounty (Armored Princess?) where with every achievement you unlocked something in game.

Can't really vote as I don't play live service games, unless mmo counts which I play very rarely. Interested to know how many people actually play live service games. I like to buy a game, finish it, put it on the shelf and play the next game with new world, story and characters.

Another point is that if they do add trophies as DLC I fastly prefer trophies that retroactively unlock like Spiderman Remastered did with the ultimate taskmaster trophy requirement. Not like dead by daylight where you might have done something way past the requirements but it only counts after the trophy gets added

What do you get from the e-trophies? I never understood the phenomena. I like getting achievements when they randomly pop up but hardly have I ever looked up a list of trophies or achievements to pursue them. It seems like a way to lock you into a platform. Glad Nintendo never went this route. At least with Xbox I get reward points to donate to charities. If you like the incentive good for you and if it keeps people engaged with their games then hopefully developers take notes and easily update them because I don't think it's too hard.

I don't understand that service games even exist

I dont understand trophies in general to be honest. Never understood why people make such a big deal about them or what the appeal is. I actually find them kind of annoying. Lol

@invictus4000 mainly bragging rights. "Look at what achievements/trophies I unlocked. You didn't? aRe You eVeN a GaMeR?? GiT GuD. NeWB." I dont know if people talk like that still, but it's why people "care" about achievements/trophies

I used to be quite a harcore trophy, frequently haunted the PlayStation Trophies website, but I don't really bother that much now. I will go for a plat if it looks fun or if it comes naturally from 100%ing a game, but some games I don't bother.

I mean, Microsoft Flight Simulator for example, to get full gamerscore you have to play the game for 1000 hours. I will play it a fair bit, its therapeutic, but I cannot see myself playing it for that long. Hell, I only have under 300 hours on the Witcher 3, and that's my favourite game of all time.

@james_games Resident Evil 4 And Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles Comes To Mind On This For Some Strange Reason Capcom And Square Enix Did Not Give These Games a Platinum Trophy But Every Other Mainline Game And Spinoff Got One.

The other side of it is that a large portion of the trophy hunting population actually hates DLC and new trophies because they don't want to return to games.

There are those that won't play a game they expect will receive updates until all are released. But if it's a game like Warframe, the trophy list becomes way too big and daunting for a newcomer, so it just becomes another game they'll never play. And there are those that feel personally deceived if a free game adds trophies for paid DLC, even more so when the game has multiple stacks.

Maybe these companies have done their research and found out that DLC trophies actually reduce sales for these reasons? (Who am I kidding, they clearly haven't done that)

@Haruki_NLI looks like you've already had a few responses, so I'll try to keep it short...

I hear what you're saying but then again I think, is there a difference in the dopamine hit you get from playing/completing a game and the hit that comes from attaining a trophy? My guess is probably not.

@Milktastrophe I kinda sometimes hate when a game gets new trophies added because it messes up the percentage. There's games where I have a platinum with like 60% completion, or worse 98%. It's an OCD nightmare frankly.

@zupertramp @naruball @thefourfoldroot Depends. I feel as though trophies should be supplemental and something like this, chastising a game for creating more content but not creating "more content" for a checklist is....weird.

You just got more game. Why does it matter if the checklist gets bigger too? You clearly enjoyed it enough the first time to get the trophies.

I feel like that's what I'm getting at. A game can have trophies, you enjoy it, do em all, move on. But if the DLC or a service game doesnt add MORE trophies with new content drops...you wont go back or its offensive?

Clearly then you see no merit in going back even though you enjoyed the game enough to get the platinum?

Trying to articulate this is quite hard

@james_games I guess it just depends on what the trophies entail. Sometimes...I see a trophy list be stretched out. Do x things while playing that either arent an actual feat, like Jump x times (Unless you're a games journalist I guess?) and other stuff like beating a game 100% in x time.

One of em you'll just do. I dont see why that is worthy of accomplishment. A story beat, sure. A collection milestone, yeah. Opening a menu? Nah.

I guess for general trophies there is a balance to be had.

@james_games these days I won't buy any game that doesn't have a platinum. I might play a non-plat game if it comes up on plus or now, but I'm not going out of my way for it.

The reason being that the developer themself chooses whether a game has a platinum, based on their own notion of the game's "size". If the dev doesn't even think their own game has enough gameplay/content for a plat then I'm not spending extra money on it, I'll look for one where the dev is more confident in their own game.

Of course in the age of Breakthrough Gaming and Random Spin, the existence of a platinum trophy no longer indicates it's an actual full game (at least Ratalaika games tended to actually be decent games, just bad trophy lists) so it help to also check the plat rarity and fastest completion times. Since trophies are supposed to be representative of the game, if 99% of people beat a game in under 5 minutes, it's probably a cash grab and not a real game.

@PhhhCough @invictus4000 it's really no different than setting like an arbitrary weight lifting goal or something, wherein when you hit that goal you get a sense of accomplishment. No one gives you a prize when you hit your body weight on the bench press and nothing about your life actually changes but, it's something you did.

Anyway, they can be fun but it's cool if they're not for everyone.

@Haruki_NLI fair enough but I feel like anything that increases your joyful engagement in a game, which is the end goal of the game, is mostly a good thing. Like I've played way more Mario 3D World than I probably would have because I really want all those darn stickers. Are those different than trophies? Are they part of the game? Does it even matter if in the end I'm having fun trying to get the stickers? Isn't that what a game is?

I don’t understand service games.

@zupertramp This is true.

I am just rather befuddled by the almost obsession of certain folks at this point around Trophies. Game doesnt have em, not worth it.

Like....what?

@james_games Yeah I Didn't Understand That One Ether The First Third And Fourth Seasons Had Platinums But Not the Second.

@Haruki_NLI Yeah I certainly agree there's a line there somewhere where it starts to become more about the trophies than the core gameplay mechanics, art style, story, etc and, well, that is a little befuddling.

Weird thing is I have found myself straddling this line, at the very least, and it's like "why am I putting all this work into these trophies? I barely like this game." So there's certainly a dark side to them that kind of taps into one's compulsive nature, should it exist.

Sam delete this article right now. This is a completionist nightmare, lol. It actually irritates me when service based games when they keep adding trophies. It doesn't make me want to play their game more. It just makes me not want to play it at all.

@Haruki_NLI unsurprisingly, you're still missing the point. It's like arguing with someone who doesn't care for something and trying to convince others that they shouldn't either.

Trophies are not important to you. That's fine. They give a sense of accomplishment to others. They add fun to the fun. It's that simple.

@CynicalGamer The same here i just love to finish something. So if someone tells me im playing this for over 100 hours and the finish is not in sight.

@james_games AC Syndicate hit or break was it 5000 things it pissed me off.

I saw something with Gears of War 5 that makes you hate a game because it tells you how to play a game. I boosted the Tombraider reboot because noone was online anymore and if with a lot of players i would get annoyed. After doing all the stuff and finishing it i just could not stand the game anymore and i could not bring myself to finish the singleplayer. . . ☹️

Well they could add all the trophies they want. What people don't want is online trophies being added to the main list required for achieving plats.

I don't play live online mp services games, I simply would never have the time especially for the grindy lucked based trophies, no thanks

When I'm done with a game I'm done, I used to chase 100% but not anymore with how much content is released, sometimes it doesn't add any value and the trophies attached to it wouldn't make the experience any better imo

Also I'm not surprised by GTA V not adding no more trophies, they are more concerned about how much money they can squeeze out of the kiddies bank balance than quality content anymore

@zupertramp how dare you come in here with your logic and sensibility, huh? With your shoes and your socks, Mr. fancy!

Just kidding, all valid points. I just don't pay them any mind, but like you said, to each their own

@Haruki_NLI
I see where you’re coming from, and feel you are missing the point. A developer given challenge in a video game has no intrinsic value other than the enjoyment it bring the player. That is the same for defeating a hard boss to see more of the story, or defeating that hard boss in a given time, or without healing, or without using a “super move” or whatever the trophy challenges might be.

Many people don’t replay a game once it’s finished however much they enjoyed it, because it’s less enjoyable the second time, much like reading a book or watching a film might be less enjoyable the second time for people.

Personally, if I’ve played all content in a given game, and completed all the trophy challenges, then I’m less likely to pick up a DLC which has some new content but no new trophy challenges, than I am a DLC that has new trophy content AND new trophy challenges. I’m also less likely to pick up DLC content sans trophies compared to a new game (meaning also new content that will also have new trophies).

Given there are no shortage of new games, it’s easy for me to use the lack of trophies as an gating mechanism to filter content I might buy and content I won’t. One has something I enjoy going for, and the other does not have that thing. There are a few rare games that I would play the DLC regardless (Astro Bot Rescue Mission comes to mind) but they are rare as truly exceptional games are rare.

I see though why you would not understand that if you see trophies merely as a checklist of tasks like you said. Some people do just insist on seeing a dev given challenge as better if it doesn’t provide a trophy compared to one that does. To me, the only difference is one gates story content behind overcoming that challenge, and the other does not.

Yeah, I never really understood or cared about trophies at all. I never "got" it when it was on Xbox, and I was always unhappy that Sony copied it. I kinda hoped it would fade away.

I definitely don't get the mindset of arbitrary externally set "goals" that aren't part of the game and are generally only tangentially related to the actual gameplay.

The only game I've ever "done" trophies for and got a platinum on is Astrobot because the game was too short and I wanted more, and it seemed easy. So I did it. Sitting there with a phone out figuring out what the "hidden" trophies are (why are there hidden trophies at all?) what weird thing it wants you to do.....I forget them all now, but like hit x with a beach ball y times in the beach level....huh? Why would I do that naturally? I wouldn't. I'd only do it by asking the OS or the internet what the magic busy task to do is to get the point. I truly don't get how much you have to love hearing a "ding" and a text based pat on the back to actually bother spending time on that when there's so many actual games to play!

If you provide reinforcement for something that someone is already driven to achieve, research suggests you may actually lower motivation. I know myself and many others stop playing a game as soon as we've obtained all the trophies.

It could be a savvy business move to try to keep people hooked and not focused on external reinforcement.

Or it could be laziness.

Voted '' I don't care'' . Haven't cared about trophies and achievements for a while now . Though I cant stand people that bash the idea of them either , they have their place and do no harm .

I don't even understand service games. I miss sequels with much improved graphics and tech/mechanics. But yea if you're going to make a game designed to never end and milk it for years at least put in the effort to take advantage of the console's features.

@NEStalgia Xbox achievements and trophies didn't create these "arbitrary external goals", games had already been including them for years. The earliest one on playstation that I remember is the skill points in Spyro 2. And that's not even counting stuff like arcade games or racing games that have pre-populated leaderboards to conquer.

As for why people do these tasks. Well, some people just like completing everything in a game. Games are expensive these days, it's kind of a waste not to finish a game just because the newest shiny game has released.

@RavenWolfe81 ''I miss sequels with much improved graphics and tech/mechanics.''

preach

I dislike trophys that require you to play online to unlock them..trophys that are locked to the single player is how i would personally like them..i just dont have the time to dedicate to one single title that requires 100's of hours online to unlock a single trophy..the list in avengers is one i'll never platinum because although i enjoy the game in short bouts here and there i cant be arsed with the grind most of them require..borderlands 3 ok thats possible because i have 2 mates that i am playing through it with and they are fanatical about hunting down the buggers but as a whole i could live without ever having another trophy that has to be gained via online interaction..

"It's like they're not even trying to psychologically manipulate their consumers with structured dopamine surges! What do these jabronies think a video game is supposed to be, anyway?"

Anybody else just have fortnite on hidden profile wise due to the fact it just shows 0% Trophies?

Don't worry Sammy... I don't understand Service games at all. It is like watching "Days of our lives" tv series. Still the same and no end...

Huh, wasn’t aware. I don’t play any service games. That’s unfortunate. I’m not an avid trophy hunter, I only go deep on the titles I am REALLY loving, but I very much appreciate them for those titles I really click with.

@Haruki_NLI I completely agree and yet fell into the trap of trophy hunting. In fact, there were times when I refused to play games on my Switch because I wouldn't get a "reward." Thankfully I've gotten away from that and have found I enjoy games for....games! I do like to get the occasional platinum, but it's only because I truly enjoy the experience.

If I bothered with live service games, I'd hate that, personally.

At some point you may have had enough of a game and completing the trophy list might be the one last thing you want to do before you bounce. If they add trophies later down the line, you either go back to the game without really wanting to, or are stuck with an incomplete game on your list.

In-game achievements and rewards for activities in the new content sounds better to me, in this case - that should keep people who still like the game invested, and those who can't be bothered anymore won't be coaxed into coming back.

FTP game Gems of War adds trophies with each update.