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Topic: User Impressions/Reviews Thread

Posts 2,641 to 2,660 of 3,212

Th3solution

@LtSarge Great balanced review there! I enjoyed reading about your experience and it has me excited to play the game soon. There a strong possibility we’ll play it in Game Club for October.

The extra length does have me a little concerned, I’ll admit. Although I understand that the longer runtime does not detract from great moment-to-moment gameplay, so hopefully it clicks with me. I’ve never been one to complain about a game being too short, even with the RE3 Remake.

It does make me wonder how the Remake for RE4 will be handled. It’s coming fairly soon, less than 6 months if we can believe the release window. With a base game this beloved, I hope the remake doesn’t detract from the spirit of the original. Capcom nailed the other remakes so far, so I have confidence they’ll find a good balance. And based on what you say, it might be that they trim down the game length a little.

“We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.”

LN78

@LtSarge Great review! It's a shame that you thought that the game overstayed its welcome because its sheer replayability (particularly in incarnations subsequent to the original NGC release) is one of its main "claims to fame". I guess I should know!

LN78

LtSarge

@Th3solution Thanks mate!

Exactly, the game is still tons of fun to play and the content that's there is great. It's actually kinda crazy how much content they put into this game. Some people might love that, while others (like me) would've preferred a shorter experience.

Honestly, my hopes for the RE4 remake is that they cut out all unnecessary parts (even if they're good) and replace them with more fitting sections for a Resident Evil game. Less action, less linearity, more horror, more puzzles and so on. I've mentioned this in the RE thread but I am very confident that the remake will vastly improve upon the original because there are lots of things that can be changed for the better. Even the story can be improved with longer/better cutscenes and character interactions that help immerse you more in the plot. So I don't think it would necessarily be a bad thing if the remake deviated from the original in a lot of ways in order to make it more like a traditional Resident Evil game. For example, instead of having so many action set-pieces, I would love to spend more time in the village area, solving puzzles and experiencing more creepy environments. It's more important to have good and appropriate content for a game rather than good but unfitting content, if that makes any sense.

@LN78 Thank you!

Oh sure, I can definitely see myself replaying it over and over since it's such a fun game with lots of different options for combat. You can even play the game like a pure shooter if you use the submachine gun (which I didn't want to because I wanted to experience RE4 in the traditional RE way with handgun, shotgun and so on). You even unlock an infinite rocket launcher after beating the game, so I can imagine it would be tons of fun blowing all the enemies away.

But yeah, most Resident Evil games have great replay-value and that was because of how short they were so they wanted you to keep playing them to get the most bang for your buck. But in the case of RE4, you already got a meaty campaign and lots of replay-value, so it was basically the perfect game for people looking for a long game to play. Not to mention all the extra content that was added after the GameCube version, like Separate Ways and Mercenaries mode. It's absolutely insane, RE4 really gives you the most amount of bang for your buck of any Resident Evil game.

Edited on by LtSarge

LtSarge

Ralizah

@LtSarge Oh, nice, your first time with Resi 4, eh?

It's very much a game I'm mixed on. The shooting and action are undeniably fun, but you're very right when you say it doesn't even feel much like a RE game. Even putting aside the dramatic changes to how the game feels when playing, it went a little too far in the B-movie action direction for my liking. The original trilogy and Code Veronica always did a fairly good job, IMO, of balancing camp with genuine scariness, and that balance is completely lost here.

But you also can't deny how influential this was to action games in general.

I'm just glad the remake reveal looks moodier. Maybe we'll get something that feels less out of line with the earlier games in the series tonally.

It's interesting hearing you mention how long the game is. I'd never had that impression before, but, looking up playtimes, while most are shorter than yours, they're still on the long side for this series.

Currently Playing: Advance Wars 1 + 2: Re- Boot Camp (NS)

PSN: Ralizah

RogerRoger

@LtSarge Cracking piece on Resi 4 there, buddy! And a particularly welcome one from my perspective, as you're also somebody who's approaching the series for the first time, having previously believed that they could never enjoy the survival horror genre. I'm slowly working my way through the PSone originals as best I can, and always figured that I'd get to a point where the graphics simply made the horror element too "juicy" to comfortably enjoy. That's becoming less and less of an issue, though, as time marches on and invariably renders older generations toothless and quaint by modern standards. Despite your complaints regarding the game's pacing, seeing you emerge from RE4 with such general positivity gives me hope. I've briefly toyed with the idea of buying the PS4 remasters of RE4, RE5 and RE6 before, especially when they've been on sale in a trilogy bundle, and I reckon you've just made that purchase more "when" than "if", so thanks in advance!

"We want different things, Crosshair. That doesn't mean that we have to be enemies."

PSN: GDS_2421
Making It So Since 1987

LtSarge

@Ralizah Completely agree with you. The thing is though, I've never regarded Resident Evil as a scary series. There are plenty of other franchises much more frightening. Resident Evil leans more into creating a tense atmosphere and it does a splendid job of that. But then you play RE4 and it's not scary in the slightest. At least RE1 and RE2 had a couple of jumpscares. So yeah, RE4 remake is at least showing a lot of promise with its more moody look. Can't wait to see how it compares to the original.

@RogerRoger Thanks mate! Glad to hear that you're more keen to buy RE 4-6 now. I'm in the minority here in thinking like this, but I'm actually looking forward to playing RE 5 and 6. I've tempered my expectations after having played RE4 and accepted that they won't be traditional RE experiences, much less horror experiences. But what they will be is fun experiences with lots of RE characters and lore, and that I can get behind. That's one aspect I would've loved to have seen more of in RE4 in all honesty.

LtSarge

LN78

@LtSarge I would heartily recommend that you find someone to play through "RE5" with you in co-op mode. In single player it has the most aggravating "friendly" AI since Natalya in "GoldenEye" on the N64.

LN78

RogerRoger

@LtSarge Yeah, I've heard similar criticisms of RE5 and RE6 but, as somebody who's usually averse to horror, they're criticisms which make the games more appealing to me, not less. I can do silly third-person action shooters in my sleep, even when they've got occasional monsters and jump-scares.

I started RE3 earlier today (the PSone original) and its emphasis on survivable action and quick, chaotic pacing really helped it make a positive first impression.

"We want different things, Crosshair. That doesn't mean that we have to be enemies."

PSN: GDS_2421
Making It So Since 1987

RogerRoger

Untitled

Platform: PC and PS4 (version played)
Release Date: November 2019

***

My immediate reaction to Shenmue III was a potent cocktail of hatred and regret. Having refreshed my memory of past events via the main menu's recap video, I settled down and watched as two robots lumbered down a hillside, each trying to outdo the other's awkwardness in a stilted exchange of monosyllabic dialogue. Once I finally gained control of series protagonist Ryo Hazuki, I made it all of ten meters before another cutscene kicked in, and by the time I arrived at some actual gameplay, the regret part of my aforementioned emotional crisis was in full swing.

The hatred came when Shenmue III did nothing to soften the impact of its predecessors' famously obtuse player experience. Worse, it added new mechanics to make being Ryo even more obstinate than before, including a stamina meter which constantly drains itself in sync with the game's day-night cycle, meaning I had to waste time and money searching for, buying and consuming food, lest I be happy to let Ryo slowly walk everywhere for the duration of his quest (because of course, sprinting on an empty stomach would just lead to reprimand). Abandoned in a strange village populated by grotesque animatronics, with no clue how to proceed, and with controls resurrected from two decades ago, and unable to move any faster than a load-bearing tortoise? Quite the party.

Despite this disaster, I returned to Ryo the next day (either out of obligation or sheer morbid curiosity; I'm not entirely sure which). I figured I'd stack the deck in my favour, and spend a couple hours building up my stamina and wallet before trying to make a solid dent in the story's start. I picked up my controller and trudged over to a wood-chopping minigame with a sigh.

Smash cut to yesterday, and I'm watching the game's final cutscene. A tear rolls down my cheek, forced to take a detour around my wide grin on its way to the ground.

No more hatred. No regrets. Shenmue III is a triumph, and it's one that I'm totally besotted with.

Untitled

We all know the backstory; eighteen-year cliffhanger, big E3 reveal, Kickstarter, blah blah blah. I won't lay it all out here. There's no need, not when Shenmue III does such a brilliant job of representing its own history. Perhaps wisely, it holds off on featuring any fourth-wall-breaking gratitude for a long while, with the first of two locations, the rural Bailu Village, kept largely devoid of reference. Once you arrive in the bustling port town of Niaowu, however, you'll find hotel guestbooks filled with fond memories, Lucky Hit boards adorned with fan faces, and the "Save Shenmue" shrine itself, in which Ryo will pass comment on pictures of the most prominent backers. This isn't just a nudge and a wink; this is some genuine heart-on-sleeve stuff from director Yu Suzuki, and I'm all for it, particularly since it's been handled so deftly. It would've wrecked the isolated nature of Bailu Village, but in Niaowu, it's all part of the metropolitan flavour.

And besides, by the halfway point, there's a better chance that the penny will have dropped. Shenmue III is perfectly comfortable being a celebratory continuation of the series' legacy, rather than any kind of substantial advancement in gaming mechanics or technology. In those terms, in fact, it comes up laughably short, with plenty of texture pop-in and occasional framerate jitters spoiling what are admittedly some beautiful vistas (and it made my PS4 Pro sound like a jet engine, for some reason). Reflecting on the original Shenmue, those expecting a groundbreaking experience of equal or greater bravery will be disappointed. This may seem like an obvious thing to note, but Shenmue III only makes sense once you realise what it's trying to be, right down to the NPCs that take a couple seconds to fade in around you.

Untitled

This gradual self-awareness is what strengthened my feelings for Shenmue III, and made playing through its story a true journey for me. If something's just great from the get-go, stays great throughout, and has a great ending, then that's... um, that's great (me words good) but during its runtime, Shenmue III worked hard to earn my respect by sticking to its guns. Nevertheless, there were many moments where I'd roll my eyes, shake my head, or outwardly groan. The narrative structure, for example, has its share of flaws. Ryo's time in Bailu Village can be summed up as "encounters thugs, gets beaten by boss thug, must learn move to defeat boss thug, defeats boss thug" so you can imagine the accidental comedy inherent when Niaowu turns out to be a gigantic rinse-and-repeat exercise, with all of the game's important plot crammed into its rushed, out-of-nowhere endgame. Remember when the entire point of Shenmue was Ryo's revenge quest against Lan Di? I don't want to spoil anything, but the equivalent of a sudden "Oh crap, yeah!!" being blurted out with mere minutes left on the clock made me roar with laughter.

(Speaking of those boss thugs, by the way, they were mildly frustrating, although for reasons that were kinda my own fault. Remember how I said that I decided to build Ryo's stamina early on? Well, I also trained up his kung fu skills, to the point where I easily beat both boss thugs right out of the gate. Because this would've broken the story, however, my gameplay victory was rewarded with cutscene-based defeat, and a bruised Ryo limped himself home despite the fact that he'd still had a full, green stamina meter when the boss thug was a single red dot away from collapse.)

I seem to recall saying this about previous Shenmue games, but some characters in the game's extended cast fare better than others. Ryo's as adorkably dense as he's always been, and remains borderline catatonic up until the moments that matter, at which point he'll awaken the quintessential hero within. His destined companion Shenhua is a meme-worthy collection of vacant stares (one badass scene notwithstanding) and if you told me she'd been written and performed by an A.I. then I wouldn't be surprised. Once in Niaowu, piratical gangster Ren makes a welcome return, if only because he's still the ideal foil for Ryo, and their budding bromance forms the basis for some of the game's funniest, and most fun, material.

Untitled

In terms of environmental character, Bailu Village and Niaowu are just as significant as any ally, enemy or frenemy, and it's here that I reckon Yu Suzuki has managed to strike his best balance yet. The original Shenmue was singular in its setting, whilst Shenmue II shrank in size as it progressed through its three locations. By starting out amidst log cabins and country folk, and then escalating to a comparatively daunting urban sprawl, Shenmue III is an adventure which always feels like it's heading in the right direction. There are some caveats regarding the baggage of being a threequel (how a secluded Chinese fishing village manages to maintain bottomless capsule toy vending machines is anybody's guess) and the scale is sometimes misrepresented (the amount of times people spoke of specific landmarks as though they were in mysterious faraway lands, only for Ryo to then walk around the back of that person's house and find said landmark, made me chuckle) but on the whole, this is the most comfortably immersed I've felt in a Shenmue game since departing Dobuita.

The soundtrack's contribution to this sense of escapism is substantial. Opting for a mix of old favourites and new compositions, the music never hits a bum note, and always manages to capture the mood, whether with a short, simple loop for kung fu training...

...or something much, much more meaningful.

I know I said I didn't want to spoil anything but, in light of Ryo being M.I.A. for eighteen years, many might consider the most crucial question to be whether Shenmue III includes a "proper ending" or not. To be blunt, no, it doesn't, but it also doesn't matter. It's abundantly clear that these games are, and always have been, about the journey, not the destination. You might not get any definitive closure once you're done driving forklifts around the Niaowu docks and then risking your paycheque betting on frog races, but its absence doesn't cheapen or lessen the experience (or at least, it shouldn't).

From what I gather, some supporters wanted DLC to come along and draw a line under the whole saga, so I can only imagine how baffled they must've been by the extra content Shenmue III did eventually receive, as part of its pre-planned Season Pass. The imaginatively-titled "Story Quest Pack" adds a new narrative thread to Niaowu which ends up being a neat little throwback for those who remember Shenmue II and its cup-bothering Chawan Sign system, but it's so tightly packed into the core game's pre-existing narrative that it almost blends into the background. Also locked to Niaowu, the "Big Merry Cruise" expansion parks a floating neon monstrosity in the harbour to provide players with easier ways to gamble themselves into bankruptcy. Finally, an entirely separate mode called "Battle Rally" features point-to-point, on-foot combat racing which you can augment by completing an Easter Egg hunt in and around Bailu Village. Out of the DLC's three offerings, this is absolutely the best. The races themselves offer a uniquely compelling gameplay loop, and getting to play as somebody other than Ryo is a refreshing novelty (no offence, Ryo).

Untitled

Even so, it'd be broadly accurate to describe the DLC as a weird handful of scrappy nonsense. Which I reckon makes total sense for the Shenmue series, a.k.a. that weird handful of scrappy nonsense, and that's how I've been able to circle around to an overwhelmingly positive conclusion about Shenmue III. It's been a heck of a ride these past three years (nostalgic admiration of the first game, whatever the f*** the second one did to me, and then even this triggering such intense loathing to begin with) but it's a ride that started recently, in the long shadows cast by the notoriety of the Shenmue name. Between retrospective analyses, overhyped cameo appearances, and the passionate expectations of its faithful fans, it's been almost impossible to get my own precise read on what made (or makes) Shenmue so cherished.

Until now, that is. Shenmue III might be standing atop the shoulders of some clunky old Dreamcast games, but it's also an inimitable cultural phenomenon which I've been acutely aware of, from its initial announcement in 2015 all the way through to its final post-release patch. I might not be listed in the "Save Shenmue" shrine, but this still feels like my Shenmue, and so seeing it proudly display all the love that literally got it made helps me better understand what those aforementioned clunky old Dreamcast games must've meant to an entire generation of gamers, moreso than playing them for myself ever could. Just like the original must've done back in 1999, Shenmue III feels like a work of art.

A flawed, inept, haphazard, unintentionally hilarious, outdated, outclassed, maddening, dumbfoundingly simple yet brain-achingly complicated work of art.

But it's also a work of art which means well and, in my book, that makes it one of the best.

Untitled

"We want different things, Crosshair. That doesn't mean that we have to be enemies."

PSN: GDS_2421
Making It So Since 1987

Lavalera

@RogerRoger that review is also a piece of art. I like to read your reviews always well written

PSNid: Lavalera

Ralizah

@RogerRoger Great piece! Everything flows really well, and I really like how you charted your emotional journey through the game alongside your overview of what the plot actually entails. Although, I won't lie, this reads like the gaming equivalent of Stockholm Syndrome.

Currently Playing: Advance Wars 1 + 2: Re- Boot Camp (NS)

PSN: Ralizah

Th3solution

@RogerRoger I should have known when I read that you purchased a sealed physical copy of game that you’d found something special. As always, your review is not just entertaining to read but excellently strung together and fabulous in it conveyance of your thoughts and emotions. Bravo.

The first thing that came to my mind in reading your journey through Shenmue III is the way I feel about Shadow of the Colossus. I’ve always been a little uncomfortable justifying it as one of my favorite games of all time due to is many indefensible gameplay and narrative blemishes. It’s the flawed masterpiece that I can’t argue the myriad of antiquated and irksome mechanics and convoluted storytelling; yet even with all its shortcomings, it holds a special place in my heart. Reading your review gives me the sense that the Shenmue series is your flawed masterpiece. And if you’re like me, you may not necessarily have to play the games over and over every year to cherish the fond memory and impact the game has on you.

Really cool. Thanks for sharing. 😄

“We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.”

LN78

@Th3solution "Shadow of the Colossus" is lots of people's favourite game - my sister in law included.

LN78

Th3solution

@LN78 She has good taste. 😄

And yes, like Shenmue, Shadow of the Colossus has plenty of supporters. SotC is a wonderful game and one that has never been successfully replicated. There are aspects of its design that have trickled into current game development milieu, but for the most part it still stands unique. One of the likely reasons there haven’t been any clones of it is that it objectively has so many flaws. One of the only imitators that I know of, Praey for the Gods, even tried to make the experience more fun by adding a few survival mechanics and more random battles, but (apparently, I’ve not played it) still failed to capture the essence of what made SotC so special. Perhaps one could say SotC was a progenitor to Breath of the Wild, but I get the sense that fans of the Zelda game shun that notion.

When a group of people played SotC recently in the Game Club thread, there was a lot of dissent about the game, and usually first timers find the game boring, clunky, pointless, empty, and overall just not very enjoyable to play. The narrative is considered vapid, pretentious, and impotent by many. It’s hard to argue against the validity of those criticisms, but like your sister-in-law, I feel that somehow the game has a magic that goes beyond the sum of its parts.

To bring it back around — I’m not sure how many people would cite the Shenmue series as one of their all time favorites, but it sounds like a similar situation. The game sounds like an absolute drag to play. 😅 I’ll probably never take the time to experience it because of the oft reported tedium in the moment to moment gameplay. But this little rabid group of fans for the game somehow keep it propped in the pantheon of gaming classics. I’m not usually one to enjoy playing the relics of the past with all their warts, but for some reason SotC has been one of my exceptions.

Edited on by Th3solution

“We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.”

LN78

@Th3solution I've got multiple copies across (I think) 3 formats - I've wanted to do an "Ico" "SotC" and "The Last Guardian" binge session for the longest time but I keep getting distracted by other things. I'll put some time aside during the Summer and actually stick to it this time! As for "Shenmue" I have it for the Dreamcast and put a good few hours into it many years ago but never "got the bug" so to speak. It was a case of admiration but not affection, unfortunately.

Edited on by LN78

LN78

Th3solution

@LN78 I really need to play Ico again. It was my first Ueda game and I enjoyed it too, but I suspect it won’t quite stand the test of time that Shadow has. I’ve only played it the one time way back in the early days. It was a big reason why I became a gamer and one of the first games that carried some atmospheric emotion to me. I’ll be interested to hear how you get along with playing it with a modern mindset, if and when you do boot it up.

I’ve heard absolutely nothing recently about Ueda’s new project. It’s been ages since they dropped that picture of a giant hand and a woman in a white dress. It had a King Kong vibe going on, but it’s hard to discern much from one static image.

Edited on by Th3solution

“We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.”

RogerRoger

@Lavalera That's incredibly kind of you to say, thank you! I always feel like my reviews have a tendency to become messy, babbling streams of consciousness, but I'm glad you enjoy reading them all the same!

***

@Ralizah Thank you, as always! Your joke about Stockholm Syndrome made me laugh, because it's closer to reality than you might think. Around the game's halfway point, when Ryo was clearing up Bailu Village and departing for Niaowu, I was having a miserable couple of days IRL and being able to surrender to some immersive escapism really helped. I tried to compensate for that heightened emotion when collecting my thoughts, and so I hope my review is as objective as possible, but I can't deny that it could've played a big part. It'd therefore be the flip of Stockholm Syndrome; I wasn't falling for Shenmue III in order to cope with it, but rather it was helping me cope with other, unrelated issues.

***

@Th3solution You're too kind, thanks buddy! And you're right, thinking back to thoughts you've shared about Shadow of the Colossus before, as well as opinions we've both shared about The Last Guardian, I think that's a very good comparison to draw. Certainly a lot of my reactions during Shenmue III were of a similar nature to the exasperated chuckles that Trico frequently elicited, and those that I understand you and many others have, um... "enjoyed" during Shadow of the Colossus. Whether there's some intangible and ineffable quality to these kinds of games or not is, I suppose, why they tend to generate much deeper discussion than your average shooty-bang-bang "I liked the bit when the rocket launcher went kablooey" experience. I think there's always an element of right place, right time in play as well, in the immediate (one's specific mood when picking up the controller and getting underway) and in terms of historical context (one's broader experience and tolerance for certain genres and generations). Whatever the combination of factors is, I think you're right to call it "magic" in one of your subsequent replies, because it can certainly feel like that sometimes!

***

@LN78 I haven't watched those videos yet, but thanks for recommending them! The second has popped up in a couple of my searches this past fortnight, but I'd skipped over it because of its negative title and the potential for spoilers. I'll give 'em both a watch soon, though!

Also...

LN78 wrote:

As for "Shenmue" I have it for the Dreamcast and put a good few hours into it many years ago but never "got the bug" so to speak. It was a case of admiration but not affection, unfortunately.

...that was very much my take for most of the original Shenmue, too. The sheer technical achievement is inescapably impressive but, even in its best moments, it couldn't make me love it. I'm not sure I can wholeheartedly recommend trying to get invested in an incomplete series that took me so much tedium to adore, but I'm certain that most folks would come around eventually (even if, as Ral suggests, it's merely the gaming equivalent of Stockholm Syndrome taking effect).

"We want different things, Crosshair. That doesn't mean that we have to be enemies."

PSN: GDS_2421
Making It So Since 1987

LN78

@RogerRoger If you enjoy them (he very much loves "Shenmue" beyond all reasonable measures, by the way) then his equally excellent analysis of the "Sonic the Hedgehog" phenomenon will definitely float your boat!
PS Just managed to get all three "Shenmue" games physical sealed for PS4 for under £30. Happy with that.

Edited on by LN78

LN78

RogerRoger

@LN78 Nicely done! Was gonna mention that they're routinely on sale but, as I said, hesitated to recommend them outright. For less than a tenner per game, however, it's definitely worth the risk. Hope you enjoy!

"We want different things, Crosshair. That doesn't mean that we have to be enemies."

PSN: GDS_2421
Making It So Since 1987

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