@RogerRoger I’d probably say Thor 2 is the worst of the lot so I wouldn’t think too deeply about why you almost fell asleep!
Definitely agree on that one. I did fall asleep when I watched Thor 2 for the first time. A few years later I rewatched it and almost fell asleep again! It is not a good movie. Not offensively bad, just dull and lifeless.
@RogerRoger By the way... are you keeping track of all the infinity stones so far? It’s one thing that watching the movies in close succession is a bit easier to do, as opposed to watching each separately as it’s own stand-alone movie. For me it was almost like I needed a spreadsheet to keep up with them all and there are plenty of places on the internet that do that for you but I’d discourage you from googling it because you’re sure to end up with spoilers at this point, and there’s sufficient explanation later on for those who’ve watched the movies more casually and for viewers who missed one or more of the 23 movies. 😄
But the movies reward people like me who are super-fans who geek out on the small details.
“We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.”
Well, hurrah for insomnia; I finished Phase Two earlier today.
Guardians of the Galaxy had the potential to be a favourite. I adored Rocket and really liked Groot, Drax and Gamora, and most of their jokes landed. They were a fun bunch to hang out with, and an interesting perspective from which to expand the scope of the MCU beyond Earth and its legends... so quite why somebody decided to ruin all of those gorgeous universe-building vistas and landscapes with popular music is beyond me. I don't mind the odd well-placed song here or there, but this was just a cruel juxtaposition; my eyes were feasting whilst my ears were bleeding.
Also, once again, it's no disrespect to the actor (who, by all accounts, is talented and seems like a really nice guy) but Chris Pratt was cast in a typically Chris Pratt role. I was hoping context would help me tolerate Star-Lord, but it just made things worse. I couldn't stand him. To have him as the annoying dudebro core around which all this other excellent stuff was built, split the movie right down the middle for me.
I don't think I've ever been so conflicted about a film before (with apologies to @LieutenantFatman and its other fans). For everything I genuinely loved, there was an element that made me recoil in disgust.
Age of Ultron to the rescue. Thought it was brilliant; a worthy successor to the first team-up crossover, even if it could never hope to exceed it. James Spader needs to voice more things, and the Hulkbuster sequence became an instant favourite. Ant-Man was then the cherry atop the icing on the 90% delicious cake. In the same way I loved Winter Soldier for being a spy thriller, I loved Ant-Man for being a heist movie, and its compelling characters were given a boost by an underrated cast.
Perhaps it would've been better to end the phase with Age of Ultron, given its post-credits scene and focus on the overall machinations, but Ant-Man was too much of a treat to hold back. All the same, I'm gonna take an actual break now, and won't start Phase Three until next week.
@nessisonett It's awesome that we agree about Thor: The Dark World but, er... yeah, let's just say that it'll be interesting to see if my current #1 movie stays up top throughout Phase Three!
@Th3solution I think I've got a handle on them all, yeah. Age of Ultron is the first movie where they're discussed collectively, and you can really start to see the roadmap coming into focus. I did do a double-take when Thor, as he's leaving at the end, tells Cap and Tony that four of the stones had cropped up lately; he should've only known about three, unless somebody back on Asgard gave him a report of the purple one's movements during Guardians of the Galaxy... or, come to think of it, he probably saw it during his weird underwater dream. It's a credit to how tightly they've woven the tapestry thusfar, if that's the only hole I can poke in it. The attention to detail across the fictional universe is astounding.
@RogerRoger Honestly, I’m not a big fan of Star-Lord either. Some jokes land but I agree about the whole ‘dudebro’ schtick, it’s similar to my feelings about Tony Stark. I think Winter Soldier and Ant-Man are my two favourites there, they both deliver the most solid experience as a whole movie. I really don’t think much of Age of Ultron at all, even when I went to the cinema. The Quicksilver thing was silly and for an ‘age’, Ultron managed to run its course in about two days. At least we got Vision, I always liked him in the comics. Again though, not a fan of how they handle Scarlet Witch in the MCU since they didn’t have the access to mutants when AoU came out. Her powers are seemingly... red special effects. Looking back on it, I used to go to the cinema and think the newest movie was great but they were usually replaced by the next one, and then the next one. I don’t seem to have many lasting favourites.
@nessisonett Knowing some of what's to come, it does feel like Age of Ultron is a stepping stone for many elements (Vision, Tony's character arc, the Infinity Stones, Banner's evolution, etc.) but it's a necessary one. In between all the piece-moving, however, I reckon it's got some juice. Stuff like the afterparty, where they're all trying to lift Thor's hammer... it's those kinda moments that stick with me.
Being a total Marvel neophyte helps, I think. Having never read a single comic, I don't have any preconceptions about how the characters are handled (or mishandled). I totally understand how such things could derail a movie for fans, though.
And yeah, I felt the same about Tony to begin with, but I feel like he's making solid progress along a transformative arc every time he shows up. Wouldn't really say the same for Thor, and I sincerely doubt I'll be saying the same for Star-Lord (although I shouldn't prejudge, as I hear good things about the second Guardians film and was surprised, if not impressed, to see a somewhat compelling backstory for him; if they can build on those elements, I'd be prepared to give him a second chance).
"We want different things, Crosshair. That doesn't mean that we have to be enemies."
@RogerRoger
It's fair enough, I just love films that make me laugh and as you say there are quite a few funny scenes in there. Can't say I have much love for Star Lord as an individual, I don't mind him in the first film. Not sure if there are quite as many jokes in the sequel but it definitely has its moments.
Firm favourite of the Marvel films has to be Thor Ragnarok, lots of great comedy in there, with plenty of other fun moments as well.
@LieutenantFatman I'm really looking forward to Ragnarok, as I loved it as a passer-by for exactly that reason; I didn't have the best handle on what was happening, but I still laughed my ass off. In that respect, Guardians was a very enjoyable watch, any other issues aside.
@LN78 I got the purpose of the soundtrack; these are just my personal thoughts, after all, and I'm simply not a fan of the music chosen. I'm aware that I'm in a minority there. Having said that, I'd quietly argue if you need that much obvious emotional signposting for a character, then perhaps there are shortcomings in the script or performance. Patrick Stewart shared a scene with that photo album twice, both times briefly as a trigger to enable him to convey the feelings it evoked via his acting skills and dialogue. Star-Lord was never given that chance; perhaps if he was, I might've cared a little more than I did.
In previous posts, I've recognised that "redemption of an *****" is the default position for most superhero movies, so I get what you're saying. I just think there have been varying degrees of success thusfar. I'll use a slightly ironic analogy to illustrate my thoughts; by this point, Tony Stark has put the ball in the back of the net five times. Thor has tried his best, but hit the crossbar twice. Star-Lord moonwalked up to the penalty spot and booted his shot into Row H of the stands, yelling "Woooo!!"
As much as I've been captivated by Tony's ongoing redemption story, I've found the most interesting spin on said trope to be Ant-Man. He starts in prison, a criminal (albeit a modern day Robin Hood type of one) and already has established stakes (a young daughter, who life is keeping him from anyway) long before any superhero shenanigans start to have an impact on his character's course. Crucially, he was allowed brief moments of conflict and self-reflection. It felt much fresher, and smarter, than simply leaning on the Billboard Top 100 from the early 70s, particularly for yet another origin story so late in the game.
Anyway, at this point, I'm in danger of overthinking what are all supposed to be entertaining fairy tales, so I'll politely leave it there; again, these are just my personal perspectives as I'm passing through.
"We want different things, Crosshair. That doesn't mean that we have to be enemies."
@RogerRoger Glad to hear your overall experience with the MCU is favorable still and I agree with most of your takes. As you say, to create so many entries without a bunch of plot holes, inconsistencies, and errors is quite an achievement. But yes, they do exist. As with most science fiction and fantasy there’s the element of ‘suspension of disbelief’ that comes into play a few times here. Question things just enough to be able to appreciate the clever interwoven narrative, but not enough to look too deep to see the cracks. As more entries pile up in your viewing, more possibilities for narrative error might pile up. But I agree with you - as a whole it’s remarkably consistent.
And as a quick aside, I think it’s possible that the Star-Lord character suffers from a little bit of America-centric culture contamination as far as relatability and humor. The dudebro / frat boy/ bumbling bravado is a motif that we seem to have an strange obsession with. I’m guilty of finding great humor and relatability in Star-Lord, but there’s a chance a lot of that is because I know a few Star-Lords in my life. GotG2 and the other future entries do give his character more depth over time and I mostly found myself rooting for him, but your mileage may vary on his goofy personality, even though its evolution adds a few layers eventually.
I can totally see how the music may be a source of distraction if you’re not particularly a fan. Although the future entries use less well known tracks, there is a clear infatuation that the filmmakers have with 60’s and 70’s tunes and it’s a bit of a running theme. I’ve been a fan of that particular era of music so I actually found it enhanced my enjoyment but I know all to well about heavy use of a style of music making or breaking a show. For me, it’s gratuitous use of hip-hop that often sullies a movie experience, so I get it.
Edit: on the subject and as another general movie watching aside — I have found that a lot of movie music comes across much better in a theater setting than it does on the small screen. This is a phenomenon that I notice on rewatching a variety of films. Not sure if anyone else experiences that but the booming of the big theater sound system carries added impact, usually in a positive way, as opposed to watching at home.
@LN78 The reasons why somebody would actively choose to play such music over their science fiction film are beyond me personally, but only because I don't like the music. I still understood the intent, yeah. Vague original wording on my part; forgive me.
@Th3solution Oh, I am uniformly impressed across the board, absolutely. Most of my standard fare winds up navigating plot chasms, let alone plot holes, so the consistency of the MCU is most definitely one of its biggest strengths. The increased humour and pure entertainment elements is helping keep things from getting too convoluted, as well. It would've been real easy for the Infinity Stones, and for certain characters, to tie themselves up in knots at this point.
Thanks for your thoughts on Star-Lord. I think that's the crucial difference; you've known a few similar characters in your time, giving you an external perspective. That's easy to laugh along with (and, potentially, laugh at). It's a bit more difficult when you've been the bumbling dudebro fratboy yourself. Nevertheless, I'll keep fingers crossed for his future appearances.
And hey, when we all get to write and direct our own Hollywood blockbusters, I'm sure we'd inject them all with nods to our favourite things! So I can't begrudge James Gunn his decision. I've been buying my preferred soundtracks as I've been going along anyway, and have quite the expansive MCU playlist as a result; missing every other movie will help me keep the length (and cost) down.
Speaking of, you're right about the audio mix, though. I'm not sure whether it's a Disney+ issue, because I've got my home set-up tweaked to prioritise a film's soundtrack and Blu-Rays are never usually a problem as a result, but most of the MCU action sequences have been dialling the music way, waaaay back (outside of the big "hero" shots). Listening to the soundtracks separately has been quite interesting, as I've found bits from major moments and barely recognised them. I should revise some of my previous comments about MCU music sounding generic; it's actually quite detailed and distinctive, when you can hear it.
"We want different things, Crosshair. That doesn't mean that we have to be enemies."
@Th3solution I have similar feelings with Hans Zimmer’s soundtracks. There’s only so much BWAAAAA BWAAAAA I can take. The sound mixing’s always awful as well, especially in Nolan movies so the music is crazy loud and you can barely hear what anybody’s saying.
Never had a problem with Star Lord myself. Found it quite refreshing from most of the other characters in the MCU and a different take on a character arc. Absolutely loved the music in Guardians too, so much that I bought the soundtrack, which I rarely do. Thought it suited the film perfectly, it is supposed to be the music on his mixtape after all which also has a sentimental value to him to. It is something that has been copied by future MCU films and not get criticised, so I feel strange for this film to get special attention. 🤷♂️
@LN78 Oh yeah, the intent of using the music as a narrative device to connect Quill to his mother is a pretty clever part of the story. Perhaps the same narrative purpose could have been accomplished if his mother’s tape had her favorite bluegrass country western tunes or classical orchestral compositions, but I think the popular music of the day is the easiest path to portray the intended connection to the past, as @JohnnyShoulder points out. And I think @RogerRoger is on board with that (not speaking for him but reading into his last post and correction of his original phraseology) but they do go to the 60’s & 70’s well pretty regularly so I see how that could grate on the experience for a person. But yes, the ‘why it was used’ question is a more objective one.
It is interesting that Guardians 2 seemed to use lesser known tracks though, at least lesser known to me. But I was happy to discover “Brandy” though - which has become a favorite song of mine now but was not on my radar before (despite it apparently being revered as an all-time great song ...)
Oh man, Die Another Day is absolutely terrible. I don’t know what I was expecting but I love Goldeneye and can somewhat tolerate Tomorrow Never Dies. It’s a shame because I love Pierce Brosnan Bond but the movie is just incredibly bad and rarely in a fun way. At least it gave us one good thing - the Madonna song. Easily the most laughable Bond song with baffling lyrics such as “Sigmund Freud.... analyse this a-a-analyse this”. The autotune puts T-Pain to shame. The whole film is a complete waste of time and especially bad considering The Bourne Identity came out the same year, which clearly influenced their path forwards with Casino Royale, my favourite movie in the series.
Really sad to see about Joel Schumacher, I actually really do like Batman Forever even if it isn’t the best of movies. I mean, the guy did St Elmo’s Fire, The Lost Boys and Flatliners as well, three iconic Brat Pack movies of the 80s and early 90s. He might have got a bad rap but it’s still sad to see another Hollywood giant go (that hasn’t had dodgy stuff come out). He claimed that he had sex with over 20000 men which means he’s an absolute legend in my book 😂😂
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