Topic: The Movie Thread

https://www.indiewire.com/2020/12/croods-a-new-age-beats-tene...

I watched the Jason segel Muppets movie just now, so good. So very very good (I can't find a happy tear emoji)

Might try Muppets most wanted later, I've never seen it but I don't have high hopes because of the lack of Jason segel

@Foxy-Goddess-Scotchy I just finished it and it is way better than I thought it would be. Still nowhere near as good as the "first" one (though technically the 7th as Dr. Bunsen Honeydew would say 😂).

Im not generally a fan of Ricky Gervais except for Extras and The Office (Extras is actually one of my favourite TV shows) but he actually did pretty well with his number in this film. I actually didn't think this one was going to be a musical so I'm glad it was!

It had plenty of other actors in actual roles and cameos too which kind of takes the focus off Gervais anyway. Tina Fey and Ty Burrell being obvious highlights.

I think because I thought it was going to be pony, it allowed me to be pleasantly surprised by it! Both films are on iPlayer until Monday I think

The other day I watched Klaus on Netflix, which is an animated origin story of Father Christmas. It's sweet and funny, and the animation style is quite attractive.

So, Wonder Woman ‘84...

The short version is that I liked it. For fans of DC or of the superhero genre in general, there is a lot to like here.
I don’t think it quite reaches the heights of the genre’s best movies, but it’s far from its worst.

As far as acting, Gal Gadot and Christopher Pine continue to be great, the new characters also do well, with special shout-out to Pedro Pascal.

Most of my complaints would be related to the pacing. I do appreciate that the director has gone for a more character centered approach and dialed back the bombastic and exhausting action sequences that have run amok in the latest DC and Marvel films (and really almost all the action hero and Sci-Fi movies in recent years). The ease with which special effects and computer assisted graphical renditions can be shoved into scene after scene has made some movies so tiresomely full of visual spectacle that it ironically has made them actually more boring (see DC’s Aquaman as a prime example). Joker showed what could really be done when they slow down the story telling process and let the characterization shine. WW84 doesn’t get even close to being the type of character study that Joker was, but it treads a decent middle ground where it has less action and the character development is given a little room to breathe. There’s still plenty of cool fighting choreography and Wonder Woman jumping, kicking, flipping, lassoing, and just being an all around superhero however. It’s just that the flow was not as smooth as I would have liked.

So unfortunately, the script and storyline is a little disjointed even though there was obvious care to focus on the villain’s motivation and schemes. Some of the movie logic just doesn’t make sense, and how the fantastical things work within its world is poorly explained, in my opinion. There is just a lot of suspension of disbelief that you have to submit to in order for you to enjoy the film. Most fantasy and fictional stories with supernatural and superpowered beings require you to not question how things work too closely or it all starts to all fall apart, but it seems a little more egregious here.

Nevertheless, if you can get past the “Huh? How does that work?” and if you don’t mind a lot more moments of quieter character development between your explosions and bullet dodging, then it’s well worth the 2.5 hour investment to see DC’s latest installment.

I do think that DC has an interesting problem on their hands though. With my recent experience with the polar opposite Joker and Birds of Prey, we now have this and it all seems like the DC cinematic universe is not sure what it wants to be. The upcoming Batman film will be a real watershed project to see if they want to keep things gritty, go after the Marvel goofiness and camp, try to walk the fine line between both, or do something else entirely.

@Th3solution From what we have seen so far of The Batman, I will be very surprised if it turns out to be goofy.

@JohnnyShoulder That’s probably the right choice. The attempt at focusing heavily on humor was a disaster in Birds of Prey. The comedic relief in Justice League, mostly provided by Flash, was hit-or-miss ...mostly miss. I remember thinking it was a poor attempt at copying Peter Parker. So keeping things dark is likely to work better for the franchise. As much as I personally liked the Nolan Batfilms, I do think they really have to separate the new movie somehow, so as not to few like a Nolan knockoff. Obviously Pattinson is going to bring his own interpretation, but I wonder if it can be as groundbreakingly distinctive as Joaquin Phoenix’s Joker was from Leger, Leto, and Nicholson’s.

@Th3solution I think DC/WB are trying a different tact, and I don't think whatever tone and direction they settle with for The Batman will effect the other films like Wonder Woman etc, seeing as its connection to the DCEU was eliminated. Defo for The Batman sequels and if the prequel tv show still goes ahead, it is important that they get the tone of this movie right. I can't see them doing something similar to Batman and Robin. I hope not anyway.

@RogerRoger I chose to watch it streaming at home (can’t beat free!) but there are definitely moments that would have been more impressive and enjoyable watching on the big screen with the theater sound and ambiance. Would it have been worth the $15 ticket price? Eh, probably. But the ability to remain safe and comfortable at home and not have to pay anything extra to watch it was much appreciated. It’s only on HBO for a month, and it’s a movie I might just purchase for my superhero movie collection. We’ll see.

I talked to a buddy who had a completely different opinion on the movie though. He really disliked WW84. His main gripe was with the ending, and I can see it being a little bit polarizing among fans.
And yes, as I see it, the movie suffered from having the air sucked out of the hype, courtesy of SARS-COV2. Also the editing and flow I was referring to above might have been collaterally damaged by the production delays and changes in direction that things had to take when everything shut down.

Be sure to drop some impressions if you watch it. I’m curious what a DC aficionado thinks about it.

@Th3solution It sounds like pretty much what I thought of the first movie, not that bad but also not exactly doing anything too interesting. The setting does look fun though and I’d quite like a movie that ramps up the camp.

The first WW was so bad but received so much acclaim I worry the sequel just ramps up all the things wrong with the debut.

Also Gal Gadot is no WW so no real way to solve that problem but Kristen Wiig as Cheetah?! I mean, my lord if there were ever a time a character has screamed ethnicity swap it's Barbara Ann Minerva. Surely there's some British actor of middle eastern descent that could have both rooted her comic book back story (as British Archaeologist) and allowed for the inclusion of an ethnicity more suited for portraying an animal that hails from Africa/Middle East. Idk maybe I'm just being too picky but I feel like casting one of the whitest women alive was a real missed opportunity toward doing something with WW's most iconic villain.

Also really not looking forward to the "oh look it's something from the 80s isn't that so funny" humor that I imagine it leans heavily on because it's DC and all they know how to do is botch other films' formulas.

Geez I haven't even seen it and I already hate it lol. Who knows, my expectations can't be any lower, so maybe I'll be pleasantly surprised.

@nessisonett @zupertramp @RogerRoger
Yeah, I think that fans of the first WW movie will probably find something to enjoy with ‘84 and those who didn’t like it or Gadot’s version of Diana are more likely to be unimpressed. It seemed familiar with the first movie and the portrayal of the heroine is pretty consistent rather than evolutionary. I actually like her and although they continue with a heavy emphasis on the glamor girl aspect and play up the feminine side, she balances it with plenty of strength and dominance. She’s DC’s version of Captain America though — a little dry in the personality department, always virtuous and noble, and a misunderstood relic living in the wrong time period. But it works as a balance with the Justice League when Batman, Superman, and Aquaman are present. When she’s on her own it’s harder to sell. For me Gadot really commands the screen, but I realize I might be in the minority.

I see that HBO has also put all the old Wonder Woman TV shows on the network so I might need to check them out and see the Lynda Carter version of the character. I don’t think I’ve seen much of any of those shows, that I can remember.

As for Wiig, I can’t say I was too smitten with her. But my experience with the character doesn’t go beyond Injustice 2 the game, so I had no reference point. Pascal is really fascinating in his character and really shows his range if, like me, all you’re accustomed with is his Mando role.

Watched Pixar's Soul with the family and was... pretty happy with it. This is the best film I've seen from that studio since Toy Story 3 released many moons ago. The trailer itself was a bit concerning to me, since it looked like it was going to trade grounded storytelling for cartoon stupidity midway through, but the film does a pretty good job of keeping its feet planted narratively, no matter how cosmic and grandiose its scope gets. I'm not a huge fan of the film's cosmology, but the rich characterization of the various characters and the deeply existentialistic messaging that winds its way through the narrative more than makes up for any of its shortcomings. The comedy is heavily character-based and, despite the 'cute' look of the souls in this movie, it resists the temptation to allow mascot-type characters to send the script careening into chaos, as they often do in major family films. I don't think it'll be one of the studio's major classics, but, for me, it ends the streak of mediocrity that I've come to associate with the once great animation studio.

Also watched Mulan, and that was... ech. The script is bland (and occasionally nonsensical in terms of how it differs from the original), the characterization of Mulan ditches the nuances of the Disney original and turns her into another 'man with boobs' character that doesn't seem to make anyone happy, the action is forgettable, and, for the love of god, don't include cultural elements like Qi if you're going to turn it into ridiculous Star Wars-esque comic book nonsense (I'm almost surprised someone didn't get forcechoked qichoked at some point in the film). The contours of the original are there, but the vibrancy and humor are gone, and replaced with action movie nonsense that has no place in the film. It's funny how controversial the film ended up being, given it feels like it was specifically designed by a committee to avoid that sort of thing. In terms of repellant Disney live action remakes, it sits somewhere between Beauty and the Beast and The Lion King for me. Just... stick with the cartoon.

@Th3solution For what it's worth, there's definitely some bigger DC nerds out there but I'm fairly familiar with most of the characters and heavily prefer them over Marvel's. Which is why I am often frustrated by their inability to get it together on the live action movie front. It's like I'm in a perpetual bad mood at this point. So it's possible I'm being overly harsh and critical out of scorn. That's why I didn't even join the Birds of Prey discussion. Smh... aannd breath.

It's honestly much easier to enjoy the Marvel movies because one, they're usually objectively better, and two, it's okay if, for example, they make a character into a running fat joke because none of them are as near and dear to my heart anyway. Wait am I talking about Thor or Star-Lord?

@zupertramp I’ve never been a comic book expert, but you can’t grow up in the Western world as a little boy and not get some heavy exposure to superheroes - Superman, Spider-Man, Batman, Wonder Woman... it’s literally one of the tent poles of Western culture. And I’d have to agree that DC has better characters overall. But I think Disney/Marvel has increased the strength of the brand by focusing on the lesser known characters of the Avengers. Personally I knew Spidey, Thor, Capt A, Ironman... but before the MCU I couldn’t have told you a single thing about the Guardians of the Galaxy, Dr Strange, or Vision, for example. Their ability to focus on lesser know quantities and make them interesting has helped them win the cinematic war with DC. DC seems comfortable to recycle multiple Jokers and Batmans and a couple different Superman’s, and then when they have an opportunity to introduce people to Cheetah, Deadshot, Cyborg, or even Harley Quinn, they don’t really stick the landing and endear the audience. On the flip side, I think the small screen is dominated by DC and I have enjoyed what I’ve watched of Doom Patrol and Swamp Thing looks pretty good and I’m curious to start that at some point.

@Th3solution nice write up of ww84! It's such a semi hype film for me. The first film is so painfully average and overrated that it makes it difficult to get excited for a sequel. The trailers for 84 look really good though. I feel like WW was handled much better in the Snyder movies, she is the highlight of the mostly rubbish batman Vs superman and one of the highlights in JL. Her extended origin story was a bit of a drag in WW1 so hopefully the sequel isn't encumbered by having to tell a pointlessly boring origin story. I'm a fan of Kristen Wiig too so that should be good at least. Not worth going to the cinema in the pandemic for me though (no film would be worth it for me) so I will wait for its hopefully expedited appearance on one of our streaming services.

@Th3solution Truth be told I was big into the X-Men when I was a kid but that was about it. In any case I agree with you about the Marvel movies. I'd never even heard of GotG or Scarlett Witch or Vision etc. They've really done well presenting them and building on that.

@Th3solution

I think your correct on quite a few levels there, particularly in regards to the fact that Marvels/Disney are willing to explore obscure titles cinematically being critical to the MCU’s sustained success. As a lifelong comic book reader though, I would disagree with DC definitively having better characters. I have had various stages where I have preferred DC and then Marvel and back again... it really comes down the the creative teams at any one time really. For me DC (in the comics anyway) is stronger when the writing lends the characters metaphorically towards God-like beings of ancient myth. I think Marvel is stronger when the writing focuses on the flawed humanity of its heroes.

The MCU films have done a far better job of capturing the feel of the Marvel comics on a consistent basis. The DC films (post The Dark Knight Rises) have absolutely no consistency at all and rarely feel anything like the source material whether the movie is good (The Joker) or terrible (Justice League). My personal opinion is that while Kevin Feige at Marvel is a fan of comics first and a movie producer second, DC (WB) is a board of suits who make far too many reactive decisions in regards to public reactions rather than have faith in their appointed creatives. While Man of Steel and Batman vs Superman were nowhere near the level of what I would like to see from DC movies, at least the overall vision was somewhat consistent. Then the studio-heads lost their will after BvsS didn’t crack a billion and tried to out-Marvel Marvel with Justice League and it fell flat on its face.

I’m looking forward to The Batman reboot due to Matt Reeves directing more than anything else, the guy just makes great movies... but apart from that I hold out little hope for DC movies with what is currently in production. Meanwhile, Marvel will be pumping out more content than ever in 2021 with 4 or 5 Disney+ shows, 3 movies and an extra movie for Sony. All of these will contain mini-arcs that will culminate in crossover crescendos during 2022 and beyond. The multi-verse trilogy/quadrilogy of Wanda Vision, maybe Loki, Spider-Man 3 and Doctor Strange:The Multiverse of Madness in particular could be awesome if they can maintain the quality from Phases 1, 2 and 3.

@ralphdibny Agree with you 100% there. Wonder Woman was average at best and that was near the top of the recent DC stuff. I'm in no real rush to see the sequel and will give it a watch when it is with the disk rental service I use.

@RogerRoger It's a pity (re: Mulan). The original is one of my favorite Disney films from the late 90s, and Mulan was an actually relatable person in that film. Her journey from 'dorky normal girl who can't fit in with the expectations of society' to 'brave soldier who overcomes her physical and psychological limitations to save the empire' is what animates that film. It's the hero's journey, and, sort of like with Star Wars, Disney has forgotten about the strength of that concept. Nu Mulan is very much like Rey where she's this amazing badass from the word go, and her character doesn't undergo any real growth over time. Old Mulan wasn't a supersoldier, but she was willing to go to dramatic lengths to save her father; Nu Mulan was just looking for an excuse to show off her qi, or something, and that provided a good excuse for her to join the service. It's really devastating: the narrative goes from one of love, sacrifice, and bravery to something totally self-centered.

Imagine if Star Wars were made today (the first one; episode four or whatever), and the film was all about how Luke Skywalker was actually already an accomplished force user, and society was just keeping him down and not allowing him to fully develop his potential as a warrior. The death of his guardians gives him an excuse to go out into the wider world, but the film is less about stopping evil and more about him developing his abilities. It wouldn't change the content of the film all that much, but it would entirely destroy the 'soul' of the story, wouldn't it?

I've been watching The Mandalorian, and it's funny how that kind of seems like it's going to be about this unstoppable bounty hunter badass, but it's actually about the growing affection between Mando and the child. His moral duty to see the child to safety slowly becomes a deep, loving, fatherly connection that softens his harder edges, and, in the second season, you seem him increasingly struggle with the idea of leaving the child at all, even if he knows it's the right thing to do. It's a satisfying emotional arc; the sort of thing completely absent from the recent films.

@Foxy-Goddess-Scotchy Coco wasn't bad, but it felt like a more generic retread of a cultural space already explored a few years before in the underrated 2014 film The Book of Life. And it just lacked a... spark for me.

The central gimmick of Inside Out ruined that film for me, to the point where I couldn't become invested in Joy's emotional journey. Turning simplified aspects of a person's complex cognition into characters in their own right just makes for boring, predictable storytelling, IMO, and it distanced me from the young girl and her development.

Comparatively, I just watched A Christmas Story for the first time, and that film grounds you in the psychology of a child without making him out to be an almost alien creature.