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Topic: The Marvel Thread

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ralphdibny

Been a bit busy this last week so haven't been posting. I saw Spider Man on opening night because I knew I wouldn't be able to avoid spoilers!

Only one whoop/cheer moment in my cinema but it was fine, it didn't drown out any dialogue or anything.

I did look up some articles after watching it to see if there are any Easter eggs I may have missed but I pretty much got all the listed ones. I think one bit near the end will be a blu ray pause situation for most viewers anyway.

Unfortunately all the articles gave a spoiler warning for Spider Man but didn't give one for Hawkeye which they almost all spoil as well. So lame as I was planning to watch that show fully over Xmas. I still don't plan to read or hear anything more about Hawkeye until I watch it though so please don't tag me in anything spoilerific!

Anyway, good movie on first viewing. There's a lot more that could have been done but considering it is already 2.5 hours, it's probably better left as it is. Not sure how it will hold up on multiple viewings though but I doubt I'll ever think it's bad, maybe just less exciting.

I must say that this felt more like a marvel comic or a marvel cartoon than a marvel film. I won't say why I think that because it is a bit too spoilery but in so many ways it seemed to eschew the rules of the film industry and lean more toward a cartoon/comic sensibility.

@RogerRoger the MCU did have an inadvertent pause after Endgame/Far From Home! It was a bit of a mixed bag though. Black Widow was an easy sell in a hard situation, I'm not sure if I would have enjoyed it more if the zeitgeist was still buzzing at the time of its release. The TV shows were perfectly timed for the 2 year cinema drought.

@Ralizah TLJ is my favourite of the sequel trilogy and possibly my second favourite star wars film after Rogue One... I know I must be a heathen 😅

@Keith_Zissou Have a Holly Jolly Christmas!

See ya!

Th3solution

@Ralizah I really agree with your analysis and I understand what you’re saying about your disappointment with SW: TFA. In a way the setting in which Mark Hamill, Harrison Ford, and Carrie Fisher return to the screen is quite unlike the way Garfield, Macguire, Dafoe, Molina, Foxx, and co. return. I think you’re right in the sense the TFA tried to intermix the classic heroes with villains and characters that were subpar and it cheapened the effect of being back the nostalgia. In SM: NWH the return of old characters was more in line with keeping them consistent with who they were in their original respective movies and just putting them into this new setting, as opposed to TFA where it was supposed to be years later and essentially all the classic heroes’ roles and personalities seemed to have changed (especially Luke) and it made for a jarring incongruence on top of the other bad characters like Kylo. With the SM characters, they mostly seemed to act and behave just like they did back then, except for maybe Jamie Fox’s character. The movie made a joke of his change in personality and appearance but I remember his character acting differently in his original film.

I did appreciate the fact that the movie doubles down on self-awareness and pokes fun at its own concepts and short-comings. For example the gag when Maguire is trying talk up Garfield and repeatedly telling him “You’re amazing…” Clearly a nod to not only the fact that Garfield is perceived as the weakest Spider-Man in the modern film and is frequently maligned by fans, but also a reference to his films actually being named “The Amazing Spider-Man”. It’s like the filmmakers had to choose which references to the old films would work and which they would have to be forced to just make fun of. The Garfield Spider-Man saving MJ in the manner he was not able to save Gwen was a great moment, for example. But the frequent use of the “With great power comes great responsibility…” quote by Aunt May as she is dying and again by Maguire was just borderline eye-rolling, especially when Into the Spider-Verse had already made fun of the line’s frequent use throughout the movies. I can see why they’d want to include the quote, as it has become the Spidey movies’ version of “May the Force be with you” but it still fell flat for me

But overall, I think you and I are of a similar mind in the movie and how it was a fun time, if not flawed. I also found Dr. Strange’s behavior kinda… strange 😅. And had a hard time coming to grips with his poor judgment and ineptitude.

“We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.”

RogerRoger

ralphdibny wrote:

@RogerRoger the MCU did have an inadvertent pause after Endgame/Far From Home! It was a bit of a mixed bag though. Black Widow was an easy sell in a hard situation, I'm not sure if I would have enjoyed it more if the zeitgeist was still buzzing at the time of its release. The TV shows were perfectly timed for the 2 year cinema drought.

Oh, sorry, I should've been more specific. I meant that the MCU should've gone quiet for a much longer break, like, five years, minimum. But that would've meant Disney putting art ahead of revenue.

"We want different things, Crosshair. That doesn't mean that we have to be enemies."

PSN: GDS_2421
Making It So Since 1987

Th3solution

@ralphdibny Glad you enjoyed it, as did I, and part of the fun was trying to find and identify Easter Eggs and nods to prior Spidey properties. I’ll need to check out some of the articles before I have a reviewing of the movie so I can pay attention or pause the show to pick up the less overt references.

I did wonder if F.E.A.S.T. was somehow in one of the movies and I missed it. I don’t think so. It’s a clear reference to the video game, or maybe the comics which I think had Aunt May and Miles volunteering there first… maybe? I haven’t read any of the comics so I could be wrong. If F.E.A.S.T. is a creation of the Sony produced video game, then this is a real boon for how culturally important they felt the game was. Also, the line “I was just hoping you were a black Spider-Man” (or some line to that effect) made by the Fox’s Electro character was surely a wink and a nod to the absence of Miles Morales in this smash up of different Spidermen. As a fan of Into the Spider-Verse and the games I picked up on that, whereas those who’ve not partaken in the Sony Spidey output may not see that reference.

Like you say, the movie could have gone even further with the concept, but at 2.5 hrs it probably a good thing they didn’t. Also, if they brought back too many characters it might just turn into one of those cheap reboots like Fuller House or The Brady Bunch Reunion Christmas Special 😂. But it would’ve been interesting to see Sally Field interact with Marissa Tomei or Kirsten Dunst mix with Zendaya. Or better yet, try to get Neil Patrick Harris’s Peter Parker from an animated point of view. As it turned out, they had some restraint and kept things consistent with the narrative.

“We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.”

Fight_Teza_Fight

@nessisonett Honestly not a fan either, but in this case I’ll allow it. Just pure hype.
@Ralizah I thought it started off slow, but just went strength to strength after. Literally once Dr Strange was out of the picture the movie picked up imo.

Lives, Lived, Will Live.
Dies, Died, Will Die.
If we could perceive time for what it really was,
What reason would Grammar Professors have to get out of bed?- Robert & Rosalind Lutece

ralphdibny

@RogerRoger a break could have been nice but I think the new "saga" is just missing a couple of the lightning in a bottle aspects that the Infinity Saga had. One is all of the heroes under one roof for the first time, the second is a clearly defined overarching villain (Kang strikes me as more Ultron than Thanos in his current guise).

That being said, I think Spider-Man: NWH shows that Disney/Sony are looking to pay off the smaller things in this phase. The challenge of creating a mixed media franchise is done and also streamlined. They can afford to let go a bit, play fast and loose with continuity and go in directions hitherto unseen. 😅

@Th3solution just make sure you watch Hawkeye before you go on those articles unless you have already!! I'm looking forward to watching it this weekend/bank holidays. Should be a good'un!

I honestly don't remember FEAST from anything other than the video game. Maybe it's in the comics, I'm not sure. I don't recall it in the 90s cartoon. I don't think it would be a spoiler to say this but I suspect any similarities to the video game are wholely intentional. Not because of its cultural significance but because of its monetary success. Sony as a parent company can be incredibly proud of what they've produced in conjunction with Marvel in recent years so it's no surprise for them to double down on their best output and cross pollinate the media.

I won't say whether it happened but before I watched it, I was hoping to see an animated Miles pop up. Just would have been cool even if it didn't gel with the live action!

See ya!

RogerRoger

@ralphdibny Yeah, the fact that DC movies are still successful after going "heck, let's just make good individual stories and stop trying to interconnect them" means I agree, I think Disney won't mind dialling those aspects back for a bit, keeping them contained to post-credits scenes and whatnot. I think we're still quite a way away from the phase's first major crossover, aren't we? Providing they stick to their roadmap.

"We want different things, Crosshair. That doesn't mean that we have to be enemies."

PSN: GDS_2421
Making It So Since 1987

ralphdibny

@RogerRoger I didn't even know they'd announced a major crossover yet. Every show and film basically has crossovers now so I guess your talking about an Avengers level crossover.

That Secret Invasion programme could be it or maybe it could lead into an early Avengers style film, who knows!

See ya!

JohnnyShoulder

@ralphdibny @RogerRoger I've not seen any of the Disney+ shows, but thanks to YouTube, there could be a crossover at the end of Hawkeye . I could be wrong though.

Life is more fun when you help people succeed, instead of wishing them to fail.

Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt.

PSN: JohnnyShoulder

Ralizah

@Th3solution I'm of a mixed mind about the self-awareness, personally, insofar as it's often a little too 'wink, nudge, wink' for my liking, as with the meta-commentary about the reception to Garfield's Spider-Man films. But yeah, I do agree this film does a much better job of drawing from and commenting on the past without shamelessly exploiting it.

Ultimately, I wanted something more in line with previous Spider-Man films: grounded, imaginative, charming, and almost deconstructive in its approach to the genre without being obnoxious about it. Instead, they gave us the ultimate cinematic Spider-Man fanservice film. It does a good job at that, though, so I can't really be too harsh on it. Aside from Strange's role in the film, I don't think it has too many actual flaws.

@Fight_Teza_Fight The beginning was my favorite part of the film, by far. But, temperamentally, I'm not the sort of person this film was designed to appeal to, even if I had a good enough time watching it.

Edited on by Ralizah

Currently Playing: Advance Wars 1 + 2: Re- Boot Camp (NS)

PSN: Ralizah

RogerRoger

@JohnnyShoulder I still need to finish Hawkeye but, on the strength of its first couple of episodes, I'd say it certainly needs something weighty to help it feel worthwhile.

"We want different things, Crosshair. That doesn't mean that we have to be enemies."

PSN: GDS_2421
Making It So Since 1987

nessisonett

Hawkeye finished tonight and did actually pull it together at the end. Still felt like it could have done with a few more episodes but hey, season 2 hopefully! I was always going to hold it to a ridiculous standard as its basing itself off the very very well regarded comics and it didn’t really live up to them but it’s definitely one of the better offerings since Endgame.

Plumbing’s just Lego innit. Water Lego.

Trans rights are human rights.

ralphdibny

@JohnnyShoulder sorry, had to duck out of this thread because I hadn't watched Hawkeye yet (the email notification doesn't display spoiler tags 😅 but I appreciate them nonetheless!)

Finally watched it though and loved it, great show!

Hope you had a good Xmas!

See ya!

JohnnyShoulder

@ralphdibny No worries, and glad you enjoyed it!


Does anybody know if I need to watch Wandavison before the next Dr Strange film? I know a trailer for the latter dropped recently which I've not seen, but she appears in all the thumbnails I've seen.

Life is more fun when you help people succeed, instead of wishing them to fail.

Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt.

PSN: JohnnyShoulder

RogerRoger

@JohnnyShoulder Yes, you'll need to watch WandaVision. I saw the Doctor Strange trailer yesterday and it comes straight out with references to places and events from that show.

"We want different things, Crosshair. That doesn't mean that we have to be enemies."

PSN: GDS_2421
Making It So Since 1987

RogerRoger

Also yeah, Hawkeye was good. Not the best MCU offering from the franchise's first year of movie-quality television shows, but it made me smile more often than not. I appreciated the lighter tone for the season, and liked how it made me care about Clint (who'd previously been an "also there" character for me).

So, that gives me WandaVision and Loki in first place for different reasons (the former is a great story executed well, the latter is a good story executed brilliantly) and then Hawkeye sitting somewhere in the middle, it being an okay story executed well enough. Falcon & the Winter Soldier was a challenging story executed badly, so comes dead last, but at least they've all had potential. I'm sure follow-up seasons, as well as new shows, will learn some lessons and improve over time.

"We want different things, Crosshair. That doesn't mean that we have to be enemies."

PSN: GDS_2421
Making It So Since 1987

JohnnyShoulder

@RogerRoger Cheers. Looks like I will begrudgingly be renewing my subscription to Disney+ soon then.

Life is more fun when you help people succeed, instead of wishing them to fail.

Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt.

PSN: JohnnyShoulder

nessisonett

@Keith_Zissou The run’s just the 2012-15 series by Fraction and Aja. It’s collected into 4 volumes which you can get basically everywhere too.

Plumbing’s just Lego innit. Water Lego.

Trans rights are human rights.

RogerRoger

@JohnnyShoulder Just in time for The Book of Boba Fett, which starts Wednesday!

"We want different things, Crosshair. That doesn't mean that we have to be enemies."

PSN: GDS_2421
Making It So Since 1987

JohnnyShoulder

@RogerRoger Hmmmm, not sure on that one. The end of The Mandalorian season 2 kinda soured the experience for me. Too fan servicey for my liking.

Life is more fun when you help people succeed, instead of wishing them to fail.

Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt.

PSN: JohnnyShoulder

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