Topic: The Chit Chat Thread

@TheBrandedSwordsman will do. With the exception of Bloodborne it is my favourite of the Soulsborne games... well the ps3 version anyway. If you manage to get a PS5 in time (April) we'll have to do some jolly co-op.

@Ralizah Modern capitalism is a cancer on society, invariably screwing over someone or something, be it people, animals or the environment. All in the pursuit of more money for shareholders who then proceed to pay as little tax as humanly possible. Generous corporate welfare policies are largely propped up by the tax burden on the low and middle income earners who generate that wealth in the first place. Unfortunately it's extremely difficult for the consumer to escape it. We can boycott certain companies, but where do we draw the line? Almost everything is tainted in some way. Many electronics are now assembled in China and contain rare earths and metals mined from questionable sources. Most High Street clothes are made in South East Asia by people paid pennies per hour. But then I look around my home and see things I enjoy using and am happy to buy, and realise I'm a hypocrite.

@Th3solution It's the logo for the Double R diner in Twin peaks.

@mookysam I'm 40 now and looking back to my childhood a ton of stuff was free. Now EVERYTHING comes with a price. In the news the first cost calculated is the monetary cost rather than the emotional one. So we are in a trap of sorts.

Also I have been so skint I've struggled to pay my bills but over the last 4 years (when I've arguably been less productive) I've built up a portfolio and moved into a bug house. The whole system is skewed for those with dough as money makes money rather than hard work.

@themcnoisy Yeah, you get a lot of variability in terms of how good individual chain restaurants are. Like, there's a Hardees near us that cooks everything well and does a good job with customer service, and then there's a Hardees out of town that can barely cook edible food (impressive, given fast food is 75% done already before the workers even touch the ingredients) and always gets order details wrong.

It's remarkable how the same item at two different places can taste so different.

@mookysam Pretty much. I don't think enjoying your luxuries necessarily makes you a hypocrite, though. Even if capitalism is necessarily exploitative, a LOT of that harm could be reduced, ideally. Plenty of countries enjoy robust capitalist economies + a high quality of life for their citizens.

Prices would go up, but in an ideal capitalist system where workers are paid a good wage and income disparities aren't nearly as great, people could afford to buy more expensive products with additional money. Low prices are only super important when millions of people are forced to get by on criminally low wages in the first place. The system is rigged so that the livelihoods of working class people in well off countries are dependent on the enslavement of working class people in other countries, and then the snakes lie to our faces by saying this is the best way for everyone.

@Th3solution Definitely. Enjoy your chicken sandwich. Boycotting a thing you like really hurts nobody but yourself.

I’m just gonna sit back and watch y’all talk. Would rather not start a nuclear war lol

@mookysam Ah, Twin Peaks... somehow I missed out in the cultural phenomenon, but know enough about it from reputation and a few clips I’ve seen. But never saw the Double R Diner! 😄

KFC and Chick-Fil-A will be taken back for the proletariat during the Great Poultry Revolution.

@mookysam thank you for specifically saying ‘modern’ capitalism, as raw capitalism is not inherently detrimental to society. Any unbridled, unchecked economic or political system can sour. A balance is ideal, it’s why democracy is so important. Unfortunately, some systems are by nature antithetical to democracy, and therefore inherently more dangerous to freedom. If greed was taken out of the picture, governments could adequately regulate the private sector and capitalism would always be the ideal economic system, but where there are humans, there is pride, greed, deceit and a lust for power. Partisan politics and human nature are the true cancers of our world.

@Jimmer-jammer I mean, if you took human nature out of the scenario, technically communism would be achievable. So I’m pretty sure it still comes down to personal opinion on what would be the ‘ideal’ system.

@nessisonett fair point, but I feel it actually reinforces what I was trying to say. You can’t take human nature out of the equation, which is precisely why capitalism is the ideal (not perfect) system, as someone who values my freedom.

My grandparents escaped to Canada from a communist regime in Hungary in 1956. They had to duck bullets, crawl through barbed wire and pay people off just to get here. That doesn’t sound like an ideal political system. They sacrificed everything to give their family a chance to think freely and make of life what they desire.

Too much power given to any system is wrong. It’s why democracy is everything, but our governments, the regulatory body, have become inept due to human nature and partisan politics. They are more concerned about personal gain by way of political power than public service.

Capitalism is the only system that keeps economic power in the hands of the people. No system is perfect, because people aren’t perfect, but I value freedom, warts and all.

Social democracy, IMO, is the ideal social arrangement when taking human nature into account. Still allows for a decent amount of economic freedom while making life tolerable for people at the bottom rung of the social ladder.

Some socialism is preferable, but too much makes it indistinguishable from any other sort of totalitarian arrangement.

@Ralizah there are absolutely some aspects of socialism that make sense to me. Again, balance is so important. Opposition and accountability, facilitated by the people, are everything.

@Ralizah With regards to boycotting. I actually boycot a lot of stuff out of principle.

Sure, there's a skeleton in every corporate closet, so why not boycott everything? I think that's kind of a reductionist argument.

I will boycott, because some corporations are worse than others. Because some companies are just easier to boycott. And I also do it because even small steps are better than no steps at all.

For instance, most of the corner stores in my neighborhood sell Polish beer. So, sometimes I'll drink a polish beer. Unfortunately the biggest Polish brewer has supported the enactment of LGBTQ-free zones in Poland (look it up, terrible story), so whenever I buy something at that store, I'll buy a beer from a smaller brand.

Does that brewer pollute the environment, and underpay its staff? All true, but it does not do that, as well as pursuing hate crimes against queer people. So I think the question should rather be: why shouldn't I boycot it?

@Kidfried I realised recently that I hadn’t seen a Kevin Spacey movie since the whole downfall. It wasn’t a conscious decision to be honest but I don’t really feel like I’m missing out.

@Kidfried And, y'know, if it doesn't really cost you anything, then it makes sense, right?

I might boycott a corporation out of principle if their actions were particularly egregious. Like, say, if chic-fil-a was regularly professing support and helping to fund those ICE concentration camps or something. And I've definitely refused to patronize local businesses that support horrifying policies.

In general, though, refusing to buy from a chain or larger business is purely a symbolic act for an audience of one. Which is obviously fine, but it seems silly if there are no suitable alternatives and you're just removing something you enjoy from your life to register displeasure in a way that the people you're angry at will never be aware of.

Also, I've been intrigued by LGBT-free zones since I heard about them. If I enter one, will I suddenly feel the desire to consort with the opposite sex? Or do I just get a questionnaire before being allowed in? If LGBT people can go into an LGBT free zone, then it's no longer LGBT free and thus doesn't exist.

@nessisonett Not terribly hard to boycott Spacey movies if they're not even coming out anymore, yeah?

@Ralizah It’s not just new films, I honestly hadn’t even seen an older one!

@nessisonett I don't think I have, either. Lemme see if I've successfully been boycotting him or not.

edit: boycott success! Haven't watched anything with him in it since Baby Driver in 2017. It's been a few years since I last saw Seven, too.

Also lmao what a crap filmography. Very few notable roles since the 90s. How is this dude still a household name?

edit edit: Wait, I might have seen The Usual Suspects on TV. Do I still get points if I actively tried to remove the film from my memory?

@Ralizah Pro tip for abusers - release rubbish movies so that it’s easier to boycott them accidentally 😂

@nessisonett Nicholas Cage's years of molestation and abuse of power about to come out, then.

Or has he actually done something?

It's hard to keep track when half the people in Hollywood are outed as sex offenders.

@themcnoisy That reminds me of the debate on additional markers for measuring a country's wealth, such as happiness and general quality of life. The pandemic has really brought a lot of the issues to the surface, and people who previously weren't struggling now are.

@Ralizah Wages are quite low here, too, with high inequality, and there hasn't been much real-terms wage growth since the 2008 financial crisis. Ideally we should be in a higher wage, high-productivity society. It's unsurprising that the UK has low productivity compared to other G7 economies. It's not impossible for society to change, but there needs to be the political will to do so.

@Jimmer-jammer It's interesting how capitalism is often equated with freedom. It's not a linear spectrum, as even free market economies can be authoritarian and have poor human rights records. The route capitalism has gone down since the '80s has certainly warped it into the monstrous system we have today, but it's done damage throughout human history, particularly to poorer countries.