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Topic: Manga and Anime discussion

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Ralizah

Also, I don't know about anime, but if you haven't read these shojo manga, you need to...

Angel Sanctuary
Please Save My Earth
Red River
Tokyo Babylon
Versailles no Bara
Yami no Matsuei

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DOOM 3: BFG Edition (PC)

Paper Mario: The Origami King (Switch)

PSN: Ralizah

MightyDemon82

I have a few manga lined up to get through Beastars is good just finished volume 5, the deluxe Beserk collection, which I can't wait to get into. Anything by Urusawa he's my favourite by far I've read Monster and Master Keaton, Just need to start his other books!

MightyDemon82

nessisonett

@Ralizah That’s a good sized bunch for me to check out, The Rose of Versailles is like the OG granddaddy of the whole Shoujo canon. I’ll try to find more info on how to penetrate the seemingly incoherent Fate series, it’s definitely confusing with all the different series, some of which are supposed to be good, some bad.

Socks before or after trousers, but never socks before pants, that's the rule. Makes a man look scary, like a chicken.

Ralizah

@nessisonett Older shoujo is frequently awesome. Female mangaka were using shoujo and early BL stuff (which is branch off of women's comics) to explore themes surrounding expressions of gender, sexuality, etc. that they might not have been comfortable with otherwise. In that respect, beyond just being entertaining, older shoujo is a fascinating sociological windows into the concerns and interests of young Japanese women in previous decades.

Just a few other names I'll throw out there, in case you missed them.

Gunbuster: Aim for the Top (this Hideaki Anno mecha classic anticipated both Evangelion and Gurren Lagann; it's unmissable, IMO)

Space Runaway Ideon (basically what you get when you combine space opera, old school super robots, and cosmic horror; the feature length film reinterpretation of the ending, Ideon: Be Invoked, was basically The End of Evangelion of its time)

Revolutionary Girl Utena and Adolescence of Utena (Kunihiko Ikuhara's best work; mixes classic magical girl tropes with surrealism and a critique of inherited gender norms and the patriarchy. The movie quadtruples down on the surrealist elements and is more of an art film, but it has some unforgettable sequences.)

Wandering Son (a painfully compassionate look at Japanese trans kids going through puberty and attempting to find their place in the world; the anime isn't as good with issues of gender as the manga is, but you still won't find better trans representation in animated Japanese media)

Maison Ikkoku (as with all things published by Takahashi, some of the social attitudes in this are dated, but it's still a superb romantic dramedy; the manga is far better, but I also liked what I watched of the anime, so you're good either way)

Have you seen the recent anime adaptation of Banana Fish? That's another case of a classic shoujo manga getting the anime treatment recently. Although I haven't seen it, so I don't know if it's decent or not.

Current Games:

Astral Chain (Switch)

DOOM 3: BFG Edition (PC)

Paper Mario: The Origami King (Switch)

PSN: Ralizah

Ralizah

@nessisonett Older shoujo is frequently awesome. Female mangaka were using shoujo and early BL stuff (which is branch off of women's comics) to explore themes surrounding expressions of gender, sexuality, etc. that they might not have been comfortable with otherwise. In that respect, beyond just being entertaining, older shoujo is a fascinating sociological windows into the concerns and interests of young Japanese women in previous decades.

Just a few other names I'll throw out there, in case you missed them.

Gunbuster: Aim for the Top (this Hideaki Anno mecha classic anticipated both Evangelion and Gurren Lagann; it's unmissable, IMO)

Space Runaway Ideon (basically what you get when you combine space opera, old school super robots, and cosmic horror; the feature length film reinterpretation of the ending, Ideon: Be Invoked, was basically The End of Evangelion of its time)

Revolutionary Girl Utena and Adolescence of Utena (Kunihiko Ikuhara's best work; mixes classic magical girl tropes with surrealism and a critique of inherited gender norms and the patriarchy. The movie quadtruples down on the surrealist elements and is more of an art film, but it has some unforgettable sequences.)

Wandering Son (a painfully compassionate look at Japanese trans kids going through puberty and attempting to find their place in the world; the anime isn't as good with issues of gender as the manga is, but you still won't find better trans representation in animated Japanese media)

Maison Ikkoku (as with all things published by Rumiko Takahashi, some of the social attitudes in this are dated, but it's still a superb romantic dramedy; the manga is far better, but I also liked what I watched of the anime, so you're good either way)

Have you seen the recent anime adaptation of Banana Fish? That's another case of a classic shoujo manga getting the anime treatment recently. Although I haven't seen it, so I don't know if it's decent or not.

Edited on by Ralizah

Current Games:

Astral Chain (Switch)

DOOM 3: BFG Edition (PC)

Paper Mario: The Origami King (Switch)

PSN: Ralizah

nessisonett

@Ralizah Yeah, Maison Ikkoku is actually the only one I’m familiar with there but I definitely agree with early stuff being surprisingly ahead of its time. Even things like Ranma 1/2, which is chock-full of really quite awful attitudes, is massively iconic for a lot of people who say that it helped shape their own identity and have no idea how it was even aired in the US at the time. I really enjoyed Itazura na Kiss when I watched it but after looking up the manga after the anime’s abrupt conclusion, I found out that the author died suddenly while moving house and the manga was never finished. I’ll check out Banana Fish, I heard about the anime when it aired but had no idea the manga was that old to be honest.

Socks before or after trousers, but never socks before pants, that's the rule. Makes a man look scary, like a chicken.

Ralizah

@nessisonett Ranma is interesting. It's horrifyingly homophobic and transphobic by modern standards (particularly the anime, like the anime-original episode where Ranma hits his head and becomes psychologically female, and the rest of the episode is kind of making fun of him), but, for the time, it was also groundbreaking in the way it was able to make fun of traditional Japanese gender roles. The way I figure it, anything actually transgressive, that seeks to question and deconstruct social norms, is almost necessarily going to be dated by the standards of people in the future. You can't judge old stuff with new standards.

If Ranma was created today, I'd have obvious issues with it, but I still really love the series and can appreciate it for what it did right in its time.

On the Takahashi front, I actually recently rewatched the seminal Mamoru Oshii film Urusei Yatsura 2: Beautiful Dreamer, and boy, people are going to have a fit if the Buzzfeed crowd ever discovers it. 😂😂 Besides Ataru being his usual horrible self, the film opens up with a Nazi-themed display for the student fair. It's still a pretty good film, though: this was playing with philosophical themes and fantastic surrealist sequences back in the early 80's.

Edited on by Ralizah

Current Games:

Astral Chain (Switch)

DOOM 3: BFG Edition (PC)

Paper Mario: The Origami King (Switch)

PSN: Ralizah

nessisonett

@Ralizah I’ve heard of the whole Nazi thing in Urusei Yatsura 2 but genuinely thought it might have been a joke, as in never happened á la all those videos on YouTube called like ‘Shaggy says the N word’ or ‘Mr Krabs says the N word’. I’m utterly confused after a Google search, it doesn’t seem to really tie into the rest of the movie and is just a strange strange choice 😂😂

Socks before or after trousers, but never socks before pants, that's the rule. Makes a man look scary, like a chicken.

RR529

@nessisonett, I just so happened to watch that film for the first time a couple months ago, and the reason for the Nazi imagery in the context of the film is because the school is prepping for a cultural festival & the class decides upon a (Nazi) military cafe theme, for whatever reason (one of the characters has a genuine WWII German tank which is used for some gags throughout the film). Definitely odd though, even if I enjoyed the film overall.

Currently Playing:
Switch - Blade Strangers
PS4 - Kingdom Hearts III, Tetris Effect (VR)

Foxy-Goddess-Scotchy

I'll move our chat here to not derail the Demons Souls thread @Draco_V_Ecliptic

Not that there's much for me to say. After hearing about the Berserk references in Demons/Dark Souls I did go on to read a fair chunk of the manga.

It was alright.

Griffith's an interesting character and I can see why it's fairly well regarded. Haven't seen any of the anime adaptations for it and don't particularly plan to.

It's probably progressed a fair bit since I looked at it and to be honest I don't remember all that much about it beyond a few key points and characters.

"Well that was fun. Horrible, but fun!" Fargus The Jester - Pandemonium (After a summoning a monster that destroyed his home town)

"Words don't make changes. Wounds do." Agent Black - Iconoclasts

Draco_V_Ecliptic

@Foxy-Goddess-Scotchy I am in the process of sifting through the deluxe series of volumes of the manga, I would thoroughly endorse it as an artistic work. Griffith is indeed, cool and disturbing in equal measures, but yeah, Guts is obviously my favorite, hence my avatar and basing my build in Dark Souls on him.

I've seen some of the anime from '97 of it, and that's obviously easier to watch than reading the manga is. The Band of the Hawk saga is probably less interesting than when the supernatural elements begin to involve themselves in the story,

I'm referring of course to the Golden Age arc, which precedes the supernatural tone the series takes after that age is sort of ushered in by the Eclipse. Anyway, I have a Berserk sticker on my guitar so I hope that communicates my level of dedication to the series.

Edited on by Draco_V_Ecliptic

"Guinevere herself was unworthy of the love she inspired, but then a queen steps so lightly even when crushing a louse."

PSN: Draco_V_Ecliptic

RR529

InuYasha (anime) - Recently finished up a rewatch of it. As I recently did a huge write up of the manga, I'll largely just cover the differences the anime made. This 167 episode series encompasses roughly the first 360 chapters of the manga, covering "the Beginning" arc through the "Last Shard" arc (though it actually ends just as the "Moryarmaru" arc is beginning).

  • As for changes made to "the Beginning" arc, graphic content was drastically toned down compared to the manga (as I mentioned in my last write up), as well as the shuffling of a few stories (some of which is related to the cutting of graphic content). The most baffling changes made to the anime here are the complete omission of the moment InuYasha asked Kagome to be in a relationship, and the related deep conversation they have after Kikyo's second appearance (the latter was changed to nothing more than a joke regarding him contemplating being with both women). Still, despite that these early episodes are still some of my favorites, and it's mostly a great adaptation.
  • As for the "Naraku's Castle" arc, it starts out as a pretty straightforward adaptation, largely just toning down some of the graphic content as per usual, however near it's tail end they pepper in some filler episodes (including adding some filler to canonical storylines), which can be hit or miss but I do enjoy the 3 episode panther demon filler arc (most filler in the series is comic relief, but this was one of the few instances of a more dramatic filler story, and it's the best of those, as they get worse from here on). I found myself really enjoying the series still at this point, and I liked that some of the later filler episodes (placed inbetween this arc & the next) gave InuYasha & Kagome some extra moments as this was the part of the series in the manga where development of their relationship started taking a backseat.
  • Next up is the "Band of Seven/Mt. Hakurei" arc, which is a pretty straightforward adaptation other than again the toning down of a few of the more graphic moments (in fact, I believe it even begins to be a little toned down compared to earlier episodes as well, though it can still get bloody when it needs to). This is also when the series switched from traditional cell animation to digital animation, and I preferred the slightly grittier look of previous arcs. They also gave. Otherwise not much to complain about here, other than the fact they gave the Band of Seven's leader demonic powers he didn't have in the manga, making him just another enemy InuYasha overpowers with the Backlash Wave (the point in the manga was to show how he had grown as a fighter technically).
  • Finally is the "Last Shard" arc which is padded out with a few filler episodes as well (this is where things felt like they started to meander along in the manga a bit, so the filler doesn't do this any favors). I have no issues with the core of the arc itself, though the filler is hit and miss (I again enjoy that they bother to give InuYasha & Kagome more romantic moments which were slowing down in the manga, however this is also the part of the series that contains the 4 episode "Naginata of Kenkon" filler arc, which is widely considered to be the worst story in the series, filler or otherwise. I could go on a rant about it, but this is getting too long as it is).
  • The final 3 episodes are taken from the beginning of the "Moryomaru" arc, but there's not much to say here as other than the fact they speed things up a bit as they wanted to end the anime on a specific romantic moment between the two leads.

Overall it did start to drag a bit as it went on (and is a reminder of why I don't really follow long running series these days), but it was a nice trip down memory lane. Despite some issues I think the earlier episodes are my favorite overall, and while I think the manga handled the early arcs better, I think I prefer how the later arcs are depicted in the anime (and I'm including the Final Act in this statement) compared to how they went down in the manga. The only other thing of note with the series is that it ends on a cliffhanger, but with the existence of the Final Act (which I'm currently watching), it's not the big deal it used to be.

My thought's on the manga should still just be a few posts ago (on the last page, to be exact), so if you haven't yet you can look at that as well.

Currently Playing:
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PS4 - Kingdom Hearts III, Tetris Effect (VR)

Draco_V_Ecliptic

Currently reading Berserk: Deluxe Edition - Volume 5. In the midst of the notorious Lost Children arc, "elves" behaving badly and whatnot. It's interesting but so far I don't see why it was a controversial part of the overall story, maybe something awful happens later that I haven't got to yet.

"Guinevere herself was unworthy of the love she inspired, but then a queen steps so lightly even when crushing a louse."

PSN: Draco_V_Ecliptic

aradii

Today I finished watching the Yahari Ore no Seishun Love season 2 but I can't understand why a lot of anime fans love this series. I endured watching the whole series patiently waiting for the 'best' part. But there's none. one of the genres is a comedy but I couldn't find any funny scene, it seems everybody has different tastes.

aradii

nessisonett

@aradii Aww, I love Oregairu, really excited for the 3rd season coming. I’ve seen loads and loads of romcom anime so I wouldn’t say that it didn’t have any comedy, it’s more that its main plot is slightly more mature than the average.

Socks before or after trousers, but never socks before pants, that's the rule. Makes a man look scary, like a chicken.

aradii

nessisonett wrote:

@aradii Aww, I love Oregairu, really excited for the 3rd season coming. I’ve seen loads and loads of romcom anime so I wouldn’t say that it didn’t have any comedy, it’s more that its main plot is slightly more mature than the average.

I'm looking forward to the 3rd season too, I hope the romance part getting better!

aradii

nessisonett

@aradii Ok, apparently the third season has already started which I had no clue about. Guess I’ll be watching that weekly then!

Socks before or after trousers, but never socks before pants, that's the rule. Makes a man look scary, like a chicken.

RR529

InuYasha: the Final Act - The second anime in the franchise that picks up where the original left off. Designed to wrap things up, it adapts the last 200 chapters of the manga into a mere 26 episodes (for contrast, the original series covered the first 360 chapters over 167 episodes, about 30-40 of which were filler). Since I've covered the main beats of the series with my manga writeup, I'm mainly going to cover how the anime changed things up.

"Moryarmaru Arc" - The first anime ended just as this arc had begun, so most of this 100 chapter arc is adapted into the first 6 episodes of TFA, and as you can imagine it causes this section of the show to feel more like a live summary (with many cuts & reworks) than anything else, as 4-6 story threads are going along during any given episode. Granted, this arc was by far the most drawn out and boring part of the manga IMO, so some trimming isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it feels like they trimmed a bit too much.

"Resolutions Arc" - the last 20 episodes cover the last 100 chapters, and things flow much better as a result. You can feel things are a bit rushed in places, but most episodes have a singular story thread (with the climax spread out over the last 6-7 episodes, matching the pace of the manga pretty well). Also, there's some slight (but important) changes/additions to the ending that make me prefer it to the manga version (which I covered in my writeup of the manga).

Otherwise it was nice to see the series transitioned to HD (releasing in 2009/10, I wasn't yet sure how many anime had made the jump at that point), and it's interesting that as a whole (including the original series) it started out with traditional cell animation, transitioned to digital animation during the early 00's, and made the jump to HD with TFA, resulting in 3 distinct vibes (I liked the traditional animation of the early series best, as I think the grittier look gelled well with the edge the early series had that was toned down as it went on, but TFA is certainly lovely looking, especially it's 1st & 3rd ending animations which are gorgeous, and it still looks pretty modern).

Content Guide

Nudity/Sex (Mild) - The only moment of note that I can think of is when a pervy/drunk old man archetype briefly flits up the front of Kagome's skirt as a distraction (the camera is behind her, so you see nothing). Miroku (the group's pervy member) is on remarkably good behavior during TFA (probably due to him being more committed to Sango because late series, and the fact that the writers probably had to cut out a good deal of unimportant fluff such as his pervy gags due to the series' short length), with his only infraction being when he briefly flirts with some hostesses at an inn (which doesn't feature anything suggestive as far as I remember).

Blood/Gore (Medium) - It's not a particularly gory series, but it does feature it's share of the stuff, such as a brief spurt or a clothes stain whenever someone is cut. The instances that stick out the most to me is a scene where Miroku coughs up blood (and has some spill from his eyes) when poisoned, an episode where the villain makes his victim cry blood, and an episode where a villain makes a magic circle using Kagome's blood after slashing her arms.

Language (Mild) - Just typical PG-13 stuff as usual.

I'd like to thank anyone who actually spent their time actually reading all these overly long posts of mine about this 20 year old franchise I probably care way too much about, lol.

Currently Playing:
Switch - Blade Strangers
PS4 - Kingdom Hearts III, Tetris Effect (VR)

RR529

First Yashahime trailer dropped today!

Looks like they're going to animate the manga's special epilogue chapter (it's where all the footage of the old characters is from), and retool it to be the background for the sequel's narrative.

Currently Playing:
Switch - Blade Strangers
PS4 - Kingdom Hearts III, Tetris Effect (VR)

RR529

High School of the Dead (Hulu) - a series with tons of over the top action & fanservice that follows a small group of high schoolers (and the school nurse) as they struggle to survive a zombie apocalypse.

The Good

  • It's not going to win any awards, but I was impressed with how seriously it took it's core narrative (most other harem/ecchi series rarely even have one). Sure, there was the occasional "down time" episode where the gang got to rest and indulge in extra nonsensical fanservice silliness (and it can get gratuitous even during the action sequences), but for the vast majority of the time they find themselves in tight spots, fighting to survive. I also really like that it took the time to showcase how authorities at various levels (whether it be the police on the ground, up to even the US military/president) were collapsing while trying to keep things under control (it's a level of world building I absolutely wasn't expecting from this). I do wish they had set up some more time to elaborate on the history of the relationship between the MC & Rei before things went to pot though (they clearly have a strained past, but they barely set it up before all heck breaks loose). Other than that there are a couple moments that are just there for shock value which can be uncomfortable, but for the most part I was impressed in the story aspect. Also, I was glad to see that there's another male character (and honestly one I liked more than the MC) who seemed to be winning over one of the girls.
  • The animation quality too is really good for the genre (and I'd say it's good looking in general). They really pull out all the stops for the action sequences which are often kinetic & visceral, and they pay equal attention to the quality of the fanservice moments (the two even often intertwine, such as a scene where the MC shoots a rifle & in slow-mo Matrix fashion the bullet passes inbetween Saeko's cleavage on it's way to it's target).

The Neutral

  • The fanservice itself. While I certainly have no issue with it on principle (otherwise I wouldn't have even watched this), I understand it's a divisive issue. It's very over the top, and while most of it is in silly good fun, there is the occasional shock value moment (as I mentioned before), such as an instance where a hoodlum violently gropes Rei's chest (he's clearly an @**hole from the moment he's on screen & is dealt with promptly, and while making you uncomfortable is clearly the point, I can understand why'd you may want to shy away).

The Bad

  • It's one of those 12 episode series that ends just as it feels like it's getting started. It clearly doesn't have a resolution and at nearly 10 years old it's probably not getting a conclusion at this point.
  • I watched the dub, where there's quite a few Americanisms I'm sure probably weren't there in the Japanese original. Things like name drops of Walmart, PetSmart, the NRA, & Sarah Palin are more obvious, but there's probably a few more subtle ones as well, and it's just a pet peeve of mine when it comes to series' clearly set in Japan that localizers don't go overboard with that kind of thing.

Overall

  • While I'm disappointed that it'll likely be forever unresolved, I enjoyed my time with this one despite some minor complaints.

Content Guide:

Sex/Nudity (Heavy) - Should go without saying, but all the female characters have improbably large chests that have minds of their own, plus plenty of panty shots galore. There's surprisingly not much actual nudity though, with only a couple shots of a single character's bare breasts during a bath scene about halfway through (otherwise any nudity is obscured by something in the environment).

Blood/Gore (Heavy) - Again, this should be no surprise. Gratuitous blood spray & splatter is the order of the day. Not one for the faint of heart.

Language (Heavy) - F-Bombs galore, on top of the PG-13 level fare you usually get in anime.

Currently Playing:
Switch - Blade Strangers
PS4 - Kingdom Hearts III, Tetris Effect (VR)

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